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vrand
03-22-2010, 8:04 PM
Open question to the board.

If the federal courts ruled against the states on their 10th Amendment grounds to nullify fed laws on healthcare and gun rights, would you:

Agree, that the fed govt is supreme.
Disagree, that the states created the fed govt and are supreme.
Hell no, I would fight the feds decades long socialism/communism/marxism power takeover of America.

Healthcare:
Kill the Bill, Invoke the 10th
http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2010/03/21/kill-the-bill-invoke-the-10th/

Gun Rights:
The coming conservative showdown on state’s rights
http://trueslant.com/michaelpreston/2010/03/17/the-coming-conservative-showdown-on-states-rights/

JeepsRcool
03-22-2010, 9:21 PM
The states are sovereign, though they have given up much of this sovereignty buy enforcing certain laws in exchange for "federal funding"

SAN compnerd
03-22-2010, 9:29 PM
Funny I heard this same thing on the radio last week.
The Fed gubmint is supreme over the enumerated powers in the constitution. The states are supreme over all else except that which is prohibited to them.

vrand
03-23-2010, 8:08 AM
The states are sovereign, though they have given up much of this sovereignty buy enforcing certain laws in exchange for "federal funding"

One idea the Colorado was thing was to collect the gasoline taxes and not send it to DC if the feds wanted to play hardball.

Utah just passed legislation on taking back control of their lands (that feds control over 85%!) and now charging the feds user fees. :thumbsup"

YubaRiver
03-23-2010, 8:18 AM
This is too simplistic.

CaliforniaLiberal
03-23-2010, 8:33 AM
Is this not the question supposedly settled by the American Civil War?

Roadrunner
03-23-2010, 8:43 AM
Let me first say that the federal government is different from the U.S. Constitution. Having said that, we the people are supposed to have a majority of the power, then comes the states and lastly, the federal government. The powers the feds have are for the purpose of operating, administering and defending a union of otherwise independent states. The same goes for the power GIVEN by the people to the states. In my opinion, laws that discourage and penalize criminal behavior are supposed to be a part of defending the union and the states because they are supposed to be implemented to protect our freedoms and not take them from us. Laws that regulate insurance, and business in general are a problem, because they regulate more than fraud and deceptive practices. The free market should be the real regulator, in that people regulate with their wallets.

Having said that, the federal government is treading on unconstitutional ground in a number of areas where they don't belong. This health care bill is the newest encroachment.

The bottom line is this, Health care reform, education, and private business bailouts are unconstitutional. In fact, I would suggest that most of federal law enforcement is unconstitutional as well. Those duties should be under state control and each state should have binding agreements with other states when dealing with criminals that move from one state to another to commit crimes. Essentially, the military should be the only armed force of the federal government.

vrand
03-23-2010, 10:12 AM
Is this not the question supposedly settled by the American Civil War?

The question is being asked again. Are U.S. Citizens slaves to the feds? If so, can they take back their liberties through their state governments? Will the states defend their citizens?

elenius
03-23-2010, 10:50 AM
The fed govt is supreme in the areas that it has power over. They have grabbed more power than they're supposed to have through abuse of the commerce clause.

Here's a good article on these issues:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/19/AR2010031901470.html

vrand
03-23-2010, 12:13 PM
The fed govt is supreme in the areas that it has power over. They have grabbed more power than they're supposed to have through abuse of the commerce clause.

Here's a good article on these issues:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/19/AR2010031901470.html

The states that created the original fed govt are now fighting back to reclaim their rights. The latest power grab, with the health care bill, is maybe "the straw that breaks the camels back" and the states will secede from the union if the feds will still not listen.

From the looks of it, the first state that leaves the union would create a huge migration of people moving into that state that would create a huge economic boom. Just think of it, no more of the thousands of fed taxes or all of the millions of pages of fed laws that one would be free from :thumbsup:

We live in interesting times.

vrand
03-23-2010, 1:29 PM
A couple of ways to get the feds attention.

ObamaCare: Secession or Nullification?
http://texassecede.blogspot.com/2010/03/obamacare-secession-or-nullification.html

This past weekend's passage of "Healthcare Reform" in the House has been followed by much weeping and gnashing of teeth (not to mention a moderate surge in the ranks of the Texas Secede! Facebook page.).

Many folks seem to be fretting over some combination of the further erosion of personal liberty and responsibility, the additional economic devastation and tax burden, the stark imposition of top-down state socialism, or simply an apparent triumph on the part of the Democrats.

Many voices in Texas are calling freshly for secession as the logical response — but perhaps it's still too early...

Right now, unlike any other time in US history, a nullification movement has taken hold — and is growing — in most of the US states, including Texas. This means there is a strong, public-centered, and legally-informed opposition to the bloated despotism reigning in Washington, and a growing intent to invoke the Consitution itself to tell both the White House and Congress that their "federal laws" are null and void wherever they cross the line drawn by the Tenth Amendment:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

State legislatures across the country have enacted resolutions, bills, and acts warning Washington that the people and the states are fed up with the power- and money-grabbing habits of the bipartisan monopoly that's dominated US politics and government for over a century.

Perhaps secession is not the only option at this moment — and it may well be avoidable if the nullification route has its constitutionally intended effect — which is to not only stop the Washington behemoth in its tracks, but also to put it back within the limits unambiguously defined by the Constitution itself.

Texans would do well these days to check out the Tenth Amendment Center and get involved right here in Texas. Austin and Governor Perry should know Texans want Washington's meddling tentacles kept out of Texas. This calls for a resolve in Austin to get each of Washington's unconstitutional activities (i.e., most of them) out of Texas, starting with a big "NO" to top-down federally mandated socialized healthcare.

ObamaCare is only the most recent in a long line of DC's despotic assaults on the people of Texas and their liberty and property. It will take a few years for Washington to start implementing it, if it even survives the many legal challanges already lining up for it among the several states. Meanwhile, secession will always remain an optional response to this accumulated conglomeration of unlawful federal impositions.

But a unified voice from the people of Texas, offically delivered to DC from Austin, could go a long way towards not only stopping ObamaCare, but turning back the tide on innumerable other usurpations Washington has been foisting on Texans over the years.

Just imagine, for example, how empty would be threat of withheld (unconstitutional) federal "aid" to Texas, in the face of Texas' refusal to allow the collection of Washington's (unconstitutional) taxes on Texans and their property in the first place. The feds would be deprived not only of both the carrot and the stick, but also a pony to ride on — leaving Texans to enjoy their lives, liberty, and property in peace.

...and if that can't be had within the union, we can still leave.

Labels: healthcare, nullification, ObamaCare, secession

posted by Mudrosotovich at 6:22 PM