PDA

View Full Version : Bill to repeal ammo registration to be heard tomorrow 3/23!


iRIGHTi
03-22-2010, 8:18 AM
Bill to Repeal Ammunition Registration to be Heard TOMORROW!!
Please Contact the Members of the Assembly Committee on Public Safety!

On Tuesday, March 23, the Assembly Committee on Public Safety will consider Assembly Bill 1663.

If passed, AB1663 would repeal the onerous ammunition sales registration requirements put in place by Assembly Bill 962. As you will recall, AB962 requires individuals purchasing ammunition be fingerprinted and registered at the time of sale and outlaws mail order ammunition purchases. AB962 also requires dealers to maintain these records indefinitely and make them available for inspection by the California Department of Justice. As an additional burden, ammunition retailers are also required to store ammunition away from purchasers. AB962 failed to garner support from Attorney General Brown, and any law enforcement organization. In fact, 15 sheriffs wrote letters of opposition to this legislation.

All of California's firearms owners, dealers, shooters, hunters, collectors, clubs/organizations, and ammunition vendors, should join in this effort to repeal AB962. This will not be an easy fight, but it is possible to win if we all stick together and act in an organized manner.

Please contact the members of the Assembly Committee on Public Safety TODAY and respectfully urge them to support AB1663. Contact information can be found below.

Assembly Member Tom Ammiano (D-13) - Chair
(916) 319-2013
Assemblymember.Ammiano@assembly.ca.gov

Assembly Member Curt Hagman (R-60) - Vice Chair
(916) 319-2060
Assemblymember.Hagman@assembly.ca.gov

Assembly Member Warren T. Furutani (D-55)
(916) 319-2055
Assemblymember.Furutani@assembly.ca.gov

Assembly Member Danny D. Gilmore (R-30)
(916) 319-2030
Assemblymember.Gilmore@assembly.ca.gov

Assembly Member Jerry Hill (D-19)
(916) 319-2019
Assemblymember.Hill@assembly.ca.gov

Assembly Member Fiona Ma (D-12)
(916) 319-2012
Assemblymember.Ma@assembly.ca.gov

Assembly Member Nancy Skinner (D-14)
(916) 319-2014
Assemblymember.Skinner@assembly.ca.gov

mtptwo
03-22-2010, 10:27 AM
If this gets passed the Safety Committee, I will be utterly amazed.

mikehaas
03-22-2010, 11:32 AM
http://ammoguide.com/gfx/banners/noab962banner.gif (http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2010&summary=ab1663)

ONE-CLICK THE ASSEMBLY PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE (http://calnra.com/legs.shtml#oneclick)

http://calnra.com/gfx/edonnranews100319.gif (http://calnra.com/audio/EdNRANews100319raw_5.m3u)
Ed Worley on NRA News (http://www.nranews.com/#/news), March 19, 2010

LATEST CALGUNS POST (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3998226&postcount=41)

M1A Rifleman
03-22-2010, 11:43 AM
DOA i'm sure.

bomb_on_bus
03-22-2010, 12:22 PM
Please for the love of god let this pass and abort 962!

Its bad enough the health care bull i mean bill passed

fd15k
03-22-2010, 12:27 PM
What a waste of our money...

Swiss
03-22-2010, 12:27 PM
I wonder if anyone at NRA, CRPA, or CGF has bothered to contact Sac PD to find out how their handgun ammunition restrictions fared during 2009? If you recall, their claims of many arrests and convictions were a big part of the foundation for AB962.

Glock22Fan
03-22-2010, 12:42 PM
If this gets passed the Safety Committee, I will be utterly amazed.

Yes, I think our only friend there (I'm willing to be corrected) is Curt Hagman.

Whitaker Chambers
03-22-2010, 12:49 PM
What a waste of our money...

AB 962 is a waste of money, or AB 1663 is?

I think we know what you meant...

chris
03-22-2010, 1:01 PM
give'm hell guys. allthough we the gun owners will give our side of this lame law. repealing it with the current make up of the legislature will be DOA. sad to see that logic was not used when Arnie screwed us once again. emotions did. i fear that we will be stuck with this law and will be forced to carpool out of state to buy ammo. this law is nothing more than a harrassment to lawfull gun owners and the legisltature knows damb well it does just that. there are ZERO intentions to control criminals here. the Legislature is 100% behind in CONTROLLING YOU!!! nothing more nothing less.

i have full faith and confidence that the NRA, CGF will doe their best to get this bill passed the committee but these people on that committee are brain dead DemoKrats we know they are not on the side of the lawfull gun-owner. if they are prove it!

CGF guys and NRA go get'm and do what you know is an ill-concieved law and get it put in the trash where it belongs.

AndrewMendez
03-22-2010, 1:34 PM
Thanks for the link iRighti! Messages inbound!

HKC
03-22-2010, 1:38 PM
Thanks for the heads up! Emails and phone calls sent.

mcsoupman
03-22-2010, 1:58 PM
Just spoke to Gilmore's office. I don't think it will get out of committee, but I made my calls anyway.

fd15k
03-22-2010, 1:58 PM
AB 962 is a waste of money, or AB 1663 is?

I think we know what you meant...

Both, but 1663 is probably worse, because we know it won't pass.

Whitaker Chambers
03-22-2010, 2:07 PM
Both, but 1663 is probably worse, because we know it won't pass.

I'll chalk that up to battle fatigue or cynicism; as for the rest of us, the effort is worth, uphill battle or not.

Ladyliss
03-22-2010, 2:08 PM
I hate to sound stupid but, I see Districts by each of their names. When I looked up to see what district I am in, I could only find the California State Legislature districts. Those numbers did not match up to the ones on the Public Safety Committee page. So how do I know wich assembly member I am supposed to contact?

fd15k
03-22-2010, 2:09 PM
I'll chalk that up to battle fatigue or cynicism; as for the rest of us, the effort is worth, uphill battle or not.

Are you serious ? These are the same people who passed AB 962 a few months ago (not even a year ago!!!!). Our efforts should be in the court. CGF already stated that they have a lawsuit ready to "fix" AB 962, so personally I bid on that one.

bwiese
03-22-2010, 2:11 PM
Press on. Ignore the naysayers.

The politics of pain vs. reward needs to continue.

If you can at all attend, PLEASE STUFF THE ROOM. Please get there at 8:15 to coordinate with Paul & NRA/CRPA reps.

I'd expect any local-to-Sacto NRA member, MC member, or CRPA member or Calgunner who has the day off or is between jobs (and doesn't have a sick kid), etc. to attend. It won't take that long. Freedom isn't free, and sometimes time & effort are more useful than money.

Please dress nicely - i.e,, no cammies, T-shirts, sweats, etc.

I really wish I could attend but am absolutely bogged and tied down here.

CGF already stated that they have a lawsuit ready to
"fix" AB 962, so personally I bid on that one.

We do, and we have great confidence it'll work.

But wouldn't it be nice to try to get this reversed without courts? And yes, the existence of
future litigation can be helpful in these matters - esp as that litigation is "ordinary" and not
dependent on incorporation/RKBA.

Remember that some politicians wouldn't mind having been seen voting both ways on an issue.

Nevermore
03-22-2010, 2:28 PM
Wish I could go, but it's not an option. I've sent letters, faxes, etc. for the last month to let them know how they should vote when this comes up tomorrow. Just sent out another round of faxes and e-mails today.

Decisions are made by those who show up. Admitting defeat before it's even heard will guarantee this bill dies in Committee. Even if it dies, it's important to keep letting these Assemblymembers know. Let it be they who does the ignoring, not us.

Ladyliss
03-22-2010, 2:31 PM
Ok, I figured district I am in and sent the email accordingly. Thanks for the links.

fd15k
03-22-2010, 2:50 PM
We do, and we have great confidence it'll work.

But wouldn't it be nice to try to get this reversed without courts? And yes, the existence of
future litigation can be helpful in these matters - esp as that litigation is "ordinary" and not
dependent on incorporation/RKBA.

Remember that some politicians wouldn't mind having been seen voting both ways on an issue.

I just don't see how such attempts are good for anything until the political climate changes. But well, if you say we should try, then I guess we should.

mcholak
03-22-2010, 3:10 PM
I've been trying to find the good in the healtcare bill passing. Maybe this is it! Karma is just balancing out, we got screwed with the healhcare bill but maybe we'll get a reprieve on ammo.

bwiese
03-22-2010, 3:16 PM
Folks,
Please remember that this pressure is indeed for this bill BUT ALSO AS AN EXAMPLE FOR THE FUTURE.

smallshot13
03-22-2010, 3:17 PM
As posted, AB 1663 proposes to repeal 12061 and 12318, but not 12317 which was added by AB 962, why???

12317. (a) Any person, corporation, or firm who supplies, delivers,
sells, or gives possession or control of, any ammunition to any person who
he or she knows or using reasonable care should know is prohibited from
owning, possessing, or having under his or her custody or control, any
ammunition or reloaded ammunition pursuant to paragraph (1) or (4) of
subdivision (b) of Section 12316, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable
by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or a fine not
exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and
imprisonment.
(b) The provisions of this section are cumulative and shall not be
construed as restricting the application of any other law. However, an act
or omission punishable in different ways by this section and another
provision of law shall not be punished under more than one provision.
(c) For purposes of this section, “ammunition” shall include, but not be
limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader,
or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with deadly consequence.
“Ammunition” does not include blanks.

yellowfin
03-22-2010, 3:46 PM
That committee is a blatant kangaroo court.

Pyrodyne
03-22-2010, 5:26 PM
Emails sent. Don't give up hope and don't back down from the fight. Each drop adds another gram to the bucket. Enough drops and it will be a heavy bucket indeed.

ErikTheRed
03-22-2010, 5:36 PM
Yup, I agree--- we're up against the same corrupt piles of steamy vomit that passed this crap in the first place, so ya, this effort is probably about as useful as Rosie O'Donnell's va-jayjay. But thats no reason to shrug your shoulders and quit, which is exactly what they expect us to do...... over and over and over again. When will enough be enough for you? When will you finally roll off your dead whiney butt and do something about it? Its all gotta start somewhere.

See you fellas in the morning, I'll be there with my daughter. My brother can't be there by 8:15 but he'll try to be there by 9:00. Anyone know if these hearings are closed after the start time? Meaning, if my bro shows up at 9:10, can he still make his way into the hearing?

Apocalypsenerd
03-22-2010, 7:45 PM
Sent:

To the members of the Assembly Committee on Public Safety:

The registration and restrictions on handgun ammunition are worthless wastes of money and time. Such measures have ALREADY been proven by the Federal Government to have NO effect on crime. In addition, leaving this law on the books will result in a costly lawsuit which will result in the dismissal of AB962 on Constitutional grounds.

Do the right thing and vote yes on AB1663. Stop wasting our time and money on worthless gun control legislation.

Thank you,

Aaron

obeygiant
03-22-2010, 8:12 PM
I just don't see how such attempts are good for anything until the political climate changes. But well, if you say we should try, then I guess we should.

Assemblyman Curt Hagman who authored it is also on the public safety committee which may work in our favor.


Subject: AB 1663
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:00:06 -0700
From: Assemblymember Hagman <Assemblymember.Hagman@assembly.ca.gov>


As one of my constituents and a fellow defender of our Constitutional Second Amendment right, I would like to keep you updated on my new legislation, AB 1663 which would repeal the recently passed AB 962.

AB 1663 will be presented before the Public Safety Committee tomorrow, Tuesday, March 23rd. As the Vice-Chair, I will fight to see that this legislation gets passed to the Assembly Floor. Thank you again for your continued support.

__________________________________________________ ________

Last fall, Governor Schwarzenegger signed into law AB 962 which would, commencing February 1, 2011, require handgun ammunition vendors to obtain a thumbprint and other information from ammunition purchasers. The bill would also provide that the delivery or transfer of ownership of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face transaction, with the deliverer being provided bona fide evidence of identity of the purchaser. This law places hardships on law-abiding citizens, increases small business costs, and creates a database of ammunition purchases that exposes personal information to identity theft and other misuses.

That is why this session, I introduced AB 1663, to reverse this Democrat ‘feel good’ measure that does absolutely nothing to make California a safer place. An ammunition registry does not prevent crime, it only further restricts the rights of California’s responsible gun owners. Criminals who obtain ammunition illegally will continue to do so and now your local businessman will be stuck with the charge of a massive multi-million dollar record keeping system.

We need to focus our limited resources on criminals, not our law-abiding citizens and small businesses.

Thank you for giving me this opportunity to serve you.

Sincerely,

Assemblyman Curt Hagman
District 60

H Paul Payne
03-22-2010, 8:28 PM
Both, but 1663 is probably worse, because we know it won't pass.

Are you serious ? These are the same people who passed AB 962 a few months ago (not even a year ago!!!!). Our efforts should be in the court. CGF already stated that they have a lawsuit ready to "fix" AB 962, so personally I bid on that one.

YES! DAMN SERIOUS!

"Our efforts should be.............. "

Okay everyone. Just remember, that WIN, LOSE, or DRAW, the NRA was (and IS) pushing for Californians to NEVER GIVE UP!

The next time that we see one of these BS threads where someone says, "the NRA has given-up on California --- blah - blah - blah" I want all of you to remember that it is the NRA that is fighting the odds and leading the fight (even when some gun owners are reluctant to jump in and help) to not let the gun-grabbers have a moments rest.

Let me be perfectly clear about something: For as long as I have any influence on our activities in California, the NRA will continue to fight aggressively --- even when we lose. And, IF we do lose, We will come back the next year and continue the fight, and keep doing it until we win.

If, each time we lose, we just slink away and hide in the corner -- licking our wounds, it wouldn't be too long and all of our guns would be gone. But if we continue to force the gun-grabbers to continually fight us over and over again, their supporters will eventually lose their stomach for the fight.

It's an example of pain, or pain avoidance.

Paul

P.S.
Whenever any of us just want to sit back and gripe on and on, using our computers as the instrument of our frustration, I am reminded of the song my friend calls the "Keyboard Kommando Song." The actual title is "Online" but he gives me a hard time because I am on the computer so much. It is much easier to use the computer, than to get out and physically do some political tasks. But I believe that for us to be effective, we must have a balanced approach utilizing physical activism and computer-based activism.

Just my thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE6iAjEv9dQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE6iAjEv9dQ

fd15k
03-22-2010, 8:33 PM
So no tactics ? Just let them bounce those bills around, while their paychecks come from our pockets. Alright :)

H Paul Payne
03-22-2010, 8:46 PM
So no tactics ? Just let them bounce those bills around, while their paychecks come from our pockets. Alright :)
I just arrived in Sacramento and everything appears to be on schedule for tomorrow's hearing.

The tactics will be discussed in the morning, just before the Committee Hearing. See: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3998226&postcount=41

I look forward to seeing you at the Capitol.

Paul

bwiese
03-22-2010, 9:05 PM
As posted, AB 1663 proposes to repeal 12061 and 12318, but not 12317 which was added by AB 962, why???12317. (a) Any person, corporation, or firm who supplies, delivers,
sells, or gives possession or control of, any ammunition to any person who
he or she knows or using reasonable care should know is prohibited from
owning, possessing, or having under his or her custody or control, any
ammunition or reloaded ammunition pursuant to paragraph (1) or (4) of
subdivision (b) of Section 12316, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable
by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or a fine not
exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and
imprisonment.
(b) The provisions of this section are cumulative and shall not be
construed as restricting the application of any other law. However, an act
or omission punishable in different ways by this section and another
provision of law shall not be punished under more than one provision.
(c) For purposes of this section, “ammunition” shall include, but not be
limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader,
or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with deadly consequence.
“Ammunition” does not include blanks.

Why leave it in? Because it's good politics for this effort:

1. Leaving that in doesn't harm gunnies in their day to day lives.
2. Do we wanna have said about us we're repealing a law that only
prohibits ammo deliveries to prohibited persons?
3. Leaving this in lets legislators vote both ways: for 962 originally,
and "oh, we'll clean this up/I didn't realize it was that bad" on the
next pass.

mconrad
03-22-2010, 9:19 PM
To those attending the hearing in Sacramento tomorrow I extend my thanks and appreciation. I cannot be there because of business commitments, but I know that many of you are attending despite pressing commitments of your own. Thank you.

Marty Conrad

smallshot13
03-22-2010, 9:58 PM
Thank you Mr. Weise, but..... 12317 is the very reason some retailers are using to lock up handgun reloading components. If read in a vacuum, all by itself, (but including internal references), it could be interpreted to apply to long gun ammunition as well. I think it a must to be repealed. Trusting legislators to clean it up later ? ? ? Mr. Weise, did you drive through or very near San Fransisco recently? Your usual reason and logic seam slightly bent somehow.:)

GoodEyeSniper
03-23-2010, 12:37 AM
AB962 failed to garner support from Attorney General Brown, and any law enforcement organization. In fact, 15 sheriffs wrote letters of opposition to this legislation.


curious about this. I remember the guy (I think it was Deleon) specifically stating during the last arguments that it was supported by about 20 or so LE organizations, and not a single one opposed it.... Either one of these two sides are lying, or both. My guess is on both. I'd be surprised if something like LASD didn't support it, and maybe some more rural SDs opposing it. would be interesting to see facts on this, though.

para38super
03-23-2010, 6:29 AM
When will we know if this bill was stoped? Will it be today? I wish I counld go but I live so far and have a very busy work schedule. Good luck and thanks to everybody that is going.

elenius
03-23-2010, 9:53 AM
What time is the hearing?

edwardm
03-23-2010, 10:27 AM
That particular issue can be overcome with education. The same way resistance to handling OLL's was overcome with education.

Thank you Mr. Weise, but..... 12317 is the very reason some retailers are using to lock up handgun reloading components. If read in a vacuum, all by itself, (but including internal references), it could be interpreted to apply to long gun ammunition as well. I think it a must to be repealed. Trusting legislators to clean it up later ? ? ? Mr. Weise, did you drive through or very near San Fransisco recently? Your usual reason and logic seam slightly bent somehow.:)

bwiese
03-23-2010, 10:35 AM
Thank you Mr. Weise, but..... 12317 is the very reason some retailers are using to lock up handgun reloading components. If read in a vacuum, all by itself, (but including internal references), it could be interpreted to apply to long gun ammunition as well. I think it a must to be repealed. Trusting legislators to clean it up later ? ? ? Mr. Weise, did you drive through or very near San Fransisco recently? Your usual reason and logic seam slightly bent somehow.:)

We can only help stupid retailers thru education. From a practical basis,
California gunrights at the retail level is lead by certain aggressive FFLs who go and "do something" and then others will follow.

Leaving 12317 in is a no-brainer.

Lone_Gunman
03-23-2010, 11:11 AM
Any news?

loather
03-23-2010, 11:27 AM
12317 won't affect the day-to-day. It basically says that if you give or sell ammo to someone you know to be a criminal, you are also a criminal. While it's a bit superfluous and should go without saying, this is an example of a common sense gun law that shouldn't need to be codified, but is.

Suffice to say that I don't make a habit of giving ammo to people I don't trust. I generally don't trust criminals and do my best to stay away from that element altogether. I figure it goes with the territory of being a law-abiding citizen: don't associate with the criminal element. If we all do the same, then I can't see how any of us will run afoul of 12317.

Anyways, the wording is at best specious. "... any person who he or she knows or using reasonable care should know is prohibited ..." -- if you don't know they're a criminal or have no idea they were (many people aren't open about their prior criminal records) then you have committed no crime.

Leaving this in effectively cuts the balls off the bull. It leaves in a provision that might actually be effective in helping hamper the underground trade of arms and ammunition, whilst cutting out all the ineffective, undesirable parts of the bill.

Yes, leaving that in is a clear win.

mikengracie
03-23-2010, 12:05 PM
You won't get any gun and ammo dealers in this stated to help. They helped create this bill. They have now cornered the market. If you think ammo prices are high and stock is low just wait til February. I haven't bought but six boxes of 9mm local in over 2 years. Everything comes from internet sales. Supply and price.

smallshot13
03-23-2010, 12:52 PM
OK, OK. I guess I'll have to give up and accept the fact that gun owners in this state must rely on the expectation of a rational interpretation of the standard of reasonable care by the anti's. Since I don't know what that standard is (others must ot be so supportive), I must simply never give control of any "ammunition" as defined in 12317, associated with any fire arm, handgun or long gun,to anyone, [the lay down and die approach]. Alternatively, I could seek out and join a campaign to amend ambiguous language in a proactive manner. That approach does not seem to exist here.:confused:

choprzrul
03-23-2010, 1:14 PM
What is the latest on this? Any reports back from someone in attendance?

Glock22Fan
03-23-2010, 1:25 PM
It failed. See my new thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=282973).

I started a new one to give it a meaningful title that reflected the failure.

Desert Dude
03-23-2010, 1:41 PM
So I have read that Cal Guns is ready to preceed with a law suit.

How about sharing with those of us little fish who are in the big pond.

When, how, who.

CEDaytonaRydr
03-23-2010, 2:18 PM
So I have read that Cal Guns is ready to preceed with a law suit.

How about sharing with those of us little fish who are in the big pond.

When, how, who.

I don't think they want to broadcast their plan of attack to the world. I know I wouldn't. "The enemy is listening." ;)

I just hope they can get something done. They've been slowly, but surely widdling down or 2A rights with each passing year. It's an infringement of Liberty and it must be stopped...