PDA

View Full Version : Strapped (LUCC)


xxsleepyxx
03-21-2010, 10:55 PM
I've read all the recent LUCC threads and the 30 page one by Hoffman is excellent. Still, the idea of having the weapon in a container totally concealed and on the body has not been the most popular. Such methods include having a fanny pack UNDER a shirt or putting a planner inside of the pocket. I would think the best way to go about LUCC is to have it concealed. With this idea a small gun is ideal because it conserves space and makes it possible to carry in the pocket or comfortably in a fanny pack. Something along the lines of a Kahr P380, PM9, or a Bersa Thunder. So is it okay to have this type of setup?

Assuming it's properly locked with a padlock and unloaded of course
1. In a Fannypack tucked under a loose shirt.
2. In a "Planner" small enough to fit in pocket at all times
3. or something than can enclose a weapon such as a camera case

There is a blur in the law that I cannot decipher, can you guys help?

NSR500
03-21-2010, 11:30 PM
I asked a smiliar question months ago over the Winter. The answer I received was that it was okay.
Specifically, I asked that since it is heavy jacket weather, if it would be okay if my jacket covered my pack.

hoffmang
03-21-2010, 11:40 PM
If the container is locked it is no different than concealing a wallet.

Now, it's likely to be a bulky wallet and that may attract LEO attention. However, you're doing nothing wrong.

I just ask that you use discretion as LEO contact is to be avoided for a whole lot of reasons.

-Gene

xxsleepyxx
03-21-2010, 11:52 PM
NSR500 yea I remember reading that post. And hoffman and others, wouldn't you consider a method of carry in the pocket to be less likely to attract attention then a Satchel,briefcase, laptop case, or planner? To me, it seems more out of place to carry those on the shoulder than pocket carrying a modified container with a small gun. But anyway you have done excellent in explaining everything and I appreciate it very much.

xxsleepyxx
03-21-2010, 11:59 PM
I'm kinda answering my own question here but it might be useful for those reading this. I guess it all depends on where you're going, what you look like, what you wear, and there shouldn't be a limitation to the styles of carrying. An office setting or grabbing lunch during break; a laptop case would look excellent. However, walking into Walmart or the Mall with a laptop case would not look normal. In those situations a planner or pocket carry might be ideal. Also Gene, there has been cloudiness over the scenario of a mall carry? I have read that if you are not there for a purpose then it is illegal? For example going to the mall to also see a movie is okay but not if you are walking around aimlessly? I don't understand this at all..

NSR500
03-22-2010, 12:30 AM
Having done loss prevention and security in College I always choose to "fit in" and attract the least amount of attention.
In my time doing LP work I always looked out for strange containers, bags, strollers, and people dressed for the wrong weather. Bulges in clothes also got my attention because if I had to make a stop, I'd have to take my chances that they'd have a weapon.
Having said that, just be discrete and look the part of where you're supposed to be.
I have created multiple locked containers for where I may find myself going.
My next project is to find the best and smallest .32, or .380 that I can get into a small container. The goal is to get it down small and slim for cargo pants.

xxsleepyxx
03-22-2010, 12:34 AM
I think for CA it's limited to Kahr P380 and Beretta Tomcat 3032 (not too great). Those are the smallest I can think of. But if there was a mode to carry like you said it probably has to be created. I'm going to Office Depot tomorrow to try to find mini planners.

Seesm
03-22-2010, 12:39 AM
We just need to get our laws fixed so law abiding citizens can carry.

NSR500
03-22-2010, 12:40 AM
I've got a Walther PPK .22 setup in an HP pocket media drive case.
It's not uncommon anymore for someone to have a USB HDD in a car, bag, pocket, etc...
That's the cool thing with LUCC, you creativity can shine. ;)

putput
03-22-2010, 6:48 AM
Don't forget the Derringer...

http://www.cobraderringers.com/

xxsleepyxx
03-22-2010, 7:39 AM
If I were to go the 22 route I would do the NAA Mini Revolver in 22 Magnum. The LUCC would be incredibly easy with a pocket carry no problem.

AlexDD
03-22-2010, 12:28 PM
Not to thread jack, but be very cautious of how you lock the zippers on a fanny pack.

I am going to post a video/pics in the near future, but to test it out, I put a compact 9 mm in an old Eastpack type fanny pack that I have used in the past for a camera.

If I lock the zippers using the holes loops on the top portion of the zipper tab, one can still access the bag by moving the zippers along the fabric and pull the gun out while the lock is still on the zipper tabs :eek:

It is not possible, if I lock the two small holes closest to the zipper thread.

I bet some LEO/DA will say that this does not qualify as locked container.

Pics or movie would show it so much better and will try to post.

Strpd_Up_Brotha
03-22-2010, 1:42 PM
I bet some LEO/DA will say that this does not qualify as locked container.
What they say and what The Law says are two different things.......:nono:

Strpd_Up_Brotha
03-22-2010, 1:48 PM
The only thing that's foggy is when you open it......or have to pull it out......then what???

NSR500
03-22-2010, 2:10 PM
Then you're tried by 12 instead of carried by 6. If it needs to come out it best be a damn good reason because you never pull a gun unless you're going to use it.

Strpd_Up_Brotha
03-22-2010, 2:14 PM
Then you're tried by 12 instead of carried by 6. If it needs to come out it best be a damn good reason because you never pull a gun unless you're going to use it.THAT'S MY MOTTO!!!!!!!!

inbox485
03-22-2010, 2:52 PM
The only thing that's foggy is when you open it......or have to pull it out......then what???

There are exceptions to 626.9, 12025, and 12031 for dealing with an immediate threat of great bodily injury. It may come down to a jury decision on whether you were justified.

stag1500
03-22-2010, 2:58 PM
I thought LUCC is only applicable when you're driving. Can you walk around on the streets with a firearm that's unloaded and locked in a brief case?

grammaton76
03-22-2010, 3:01 PM
Did a fairly long dig at a summary from the main thread, with highlighted bits of CPC, here:

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/RefLegalCaLUCC

FWIW, I walk around with this on my hip on a near-daily basis, jacket or not. Rarely does anyone look at it twice. Then again, wearing black pants tends to make the pouch less noticeable.

http://www.blackhawk.com//CatalogImages/18-781-IMG1.jpeg

ETA: This is just the product picture; there's a TSA padlock on the TOP part of the zipper when in use, so that you can't get the two zipper ends separated by any 'useful' distance.

stag1500
03-22-2010, 3:07 PM
How is that a locked container?

grammaton76
03-22-2010, 3:09 PM
How is that a locked container?

That's just the product picture. I fit a padlock through the CLOSEST rings of the zipper ends when actually wearing it (no pics at present).

Glock21sfsd
03-22-2010, 3:11 PM
I would like to know how you lock that?

Did a fairly long dig at a summary from the main thread, with highlighted bits of CPC, here:

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/RefLegalCaLUCC

FWIW, I walk around with this on my hip on a near-daily basis, jacket or not. Rarely does anyone look at it twice. Then again, wearing black pants tends to make the pouch less noticeable.

http://www.blackhawk.com//CatalogImages/18-781-IMG1.jpeg

ETA: This is just the product picture; there's a TSA padlock on the TOP part of the zipper when in use, so that you can't get the two zipper ends separated by any 'useful' distance.

stag1500
03-22-2010, 3:11 PM
That's just the product picture. I fit a padlock through the CLOSEST rings of the zipper ends when actually wearing it (no pics at present).

Thanks for clarifying.

Glock22Fan
03-22-2010, 3:15 PM
Did a fairly long dig at a summary from the main thread, with highlighted bits of CPC, here:

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/RefLegalCaLUCC

FWIW, I walk around with this on my hip on a near-daily basis, jacket or not. Rarely does anyone look at it twice. Then again, wearing black pants tends to make the pouch less noticeable.


ETA: This is just the product picture; there's a TSA padlock on the TOP part of the zipper when in use, so that you can't get the two zipper ends separated by any 'useful' distance.

Is the lock visible? I would think that would be a give-away if it were.

grammaton76
03-22-2010, 3:24 PM
Is the lock visible? I would think that would be a give-away if it were.

Lock is visible, but no one seems to pay attention to it. I've been LUCC'ing this way now, nearly every day, without even being asked once about what's in the case. I suspect part of it is that LEOs and guards, if they know what it is, tend to assume I'm a CCW permit holder. I suspect if I looked like a gang banger, I might get asked about it. However, most of the time I'm dressed about like the guy in the product picture.

Including right past LEOs, security guards, etc. I haven't even been asked about it at banks.

It's been 6mo at a bare minimum, I think it's actually been close to 9mo now since I started.

gemini1
03-22-2010, 3:50 PM
Lock is visible, but no one seems to pay attention to it. I've been LUCC'ing this way now, nearly every day, without even being asked once about what's in the case. I suspect part of it is that LEOs and guards, if they know what it is, tend to assume I'm a CCW permit holder. I suspect if I looked like a gang banger, I might get asked about it. However, most of the time I'm dressed about like the guy in the product picture.

Including right past LEOs, security guards, etc. I haven't even been asked about it at banks.

It's been 6mo at a bare minimum, I think it's actually been close to 9mo now since I started.

Sorry if its a dumb question, can you point me in the right direction to read the part that says this is okay/not illegal? Is'nt it that one is ONLY allowed to transport unloaded handgun in a lock container if going to/from home to gun range?

rkt88edmo
03-22-2010, 3:53 PM
Not so sure how hard it is on the deringer, but good luck loading the NAA if you need it.

Don't forget the Derringer...

http://www.cobraderringers.com/

If I were to go the 22 route I would do the NAA Mini Revolver in 22 Magnum. The LUCC would be incredibly easy with a pocket carry no problem.

Glock22Fan
03-22-2010, 4:18 PM
Not so sure how hard it is on the deringer, but good luck loading the NAA if you need it.

With either of these, and if you can get them loaded, even more good luck getting the BG to stand still while you ram the muzzle into his ear or hold it steady against his neck vertibrae :)

grammaton76
03-22-2010, 4:22 PM
Sorry if its a dumb question, can you point me in the right direction to read the part that says this is okay/not illegal? Is'nt it that one is ONLY allowed to transport unloaded handgun in a lock container if going to/from home to gun range?

Unless you wish to read the big long summary thread (and get confused by all the argument back and forth), my summary is here:

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/RefLegalCaLUCC

NSR500
03-22-2010, 4:23 PM
I have an idea for a very nice LUCC system. I'll let it out of the bag when time is right.
At the moment I'm working out the bugs and getting it to a level where the firearm can be deployed quickly.

Oshiat
03-22-2010, 4:43 PM
Here is my setup. I have a Macpedition Jumbo Versipack that I carry on my motorcycle daily. I installed a grommet thru the back of the bag directly behind the zipper. A hollow pin (found it at work) is inserted thru the grommet and serves as the anchor for the combo lock.

I have been carrying the bag empty & locked for a few months and no one has ever asked about the lock. The bag is also used as a camera case for photographing my daughters band events.

Other than my daughter commenting on my purse, no one has ever said anything that would make me have second thoughts about using it.

Hopefully the pics work, this is my first attempt.

NSR500
03-22-2010, 5:29 PM
Here is my setup. I have a Macpedition Jumbo Versipack that I carry on my motorcycle daily. I installed a grommet thru the back of the bag directly behind the zipper. A hollow pin (found it at work) is inserted thru the grommet and serves as the anchor for the combo lock.

I have been carrying the bag empty & locked for a few months and no one has ever asked about the lock. The bag is also used as a camera case for photographing my daughters band events.

Other than my daughter commenting on my purse, no one has ever said anything that would make me have second thoughts about using it.

Hopefully the pics work, this is my first attempt.

See... You look normal doing it because it fits your activity. That's the best approach.
Now if you were dressed like you stepped out of banana republic with that "Satchel", I may give you a second look.

grammaton76
03-22-2010, 5:44 PM
One other thing that's useful, is to LUCC a handgun-shaped object in a case like this. Try it without a real gun (I did) for a few months. You'll feel at first like people are looking at it, but then as you watch, you'll find that no one really is unless you're wearing something else to make you look goofy or dangerous. I used the fore-end of a Romanian AK, as it's pistol shaped without being an actual firearm.

putput
03-22-2010, 5:53 PM
Ha ha. Acutally, with a 38 special derringer at 25 feet you aim for the huevos and you'll hit center mass. At 50 you aim for the knees. Takes a little practice. Oh, speed stripps...

With either of these, and if you can get them loaded, even more good luck getting the BG to stand still while you ram the muzzle into his ear or hold it steady against his neck vertibrae :)

Farva
03-22-2010, 7:21 PM
Did a fairly long dig at a summary from the main thread, with highlighted bits of CPC, here:

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/RefLegalCaLUCC

FWIW, I walk around with this on my hip on a near-daily basis, jacket or not. Rarely does anyone look at it twice. Then again, wearing black pants tends to make the pouch less noticeable.

http://www.blackhawk.com//CatalogImages/18-781-IMG1.jpeg

ETA: This is just the product picture; there's a TSA padlock on the TOP part of the zipper when in use, so that you can't get the two zipper ends separated by any 'useful' distance.

What pouch is that?

tba02
03-22-2010, 7:28 PM
Here is my setup. I have a Macpedition Jumbo Versipack that I carry on my motorcycle daily.

Yup, I ride w/ a MaxPed Mongo daily, nobody even looks twice.

ETA: and your combo is 666 (?)

xxsleepyxx
03-22-2010, 8:38 PM
I'm going to try to devise a method for truly concealed IWB carry.

Oshiat
03-22-2010, 9:12 PM
Yup, I ride w/ a MaxPed Mongo daily, nobody even looks twice.

ETA: and your combo is 666 (?)
Damn, ya got me :eek: Nah, just random numbers for the pic.

vrand
03-22-2010, 9:57 PM
Did a fairly long dig at a summary from the main thread, with highlighted bits of CPC, here:

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/RefLegalCaLUCC

FWIW, I walk around with this on my hip on a near-daily basis, jacket or not. Rarely does anyone look at it twice. Then again, wearing black pants tends to make the pouch less noticeable.

http://www.blackhawk.com//CatalogImages/18-781-IMG1.jpeg

ETA: This is just the product picture; there's a TSA padlock on the TOP part of the zipper when in use, so that you can't get the two zipper ends separated by any 'useful' distance.

Nice :thumbsup: