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ChuckBooty
03-20-2010, 8:00 AM
I was checking out a pretty nice SKS package (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=257233) in the private sale forum and notice that it was offered cash and carry. The ad has been up a while so I may be wrong...but I thought that only the Russian SKS qualified for cash and carry.

Am I wrong?

Lone_Gunman
03-20-2010, 8:02 AM
Yep. You're wrong. The age or the rifle is what is key.

ETA: but I think he needs to put the wood stock back on and I'm pretty sure the rifle in it's current configuration is a no-no.

ChuckBooty
03-20-2010, 8:05 AM
Yep. You're wrong. The age or the rifle is what is key.

Cool. I don't know why I had that idea. I seem to remember something about not being able to prove how old the rifle actually is or something like that.

Thanks!

ChuckBooty
03-20-2010, 8:11 AM
OK...so before I buy this...the rifle, as it stands right now, is good to go? What about the whole "original military configuration" thing?

Quiet
03-20-2010, 8:21 AM
The Zasatava M59 and M59/66 (Yugo SKS) are C&R rifles, but they do not qualify for cash & carry in CA.

In order to be legal for cash & carry, the C&R long gun must be 50+ years old. [PC 12078(t)(2)]

The Yugo SKS in question is a M59 and the Zastava M59 was made from 1960-1967.



Penal Code 12078
(t)(2) Subdivision (d) and paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

ChuckBooty
03-20-2010, 8:28 AM
The Zasatava M59 and M59/66 (Yugo SKS) are C&R rifles, but they do not qualify for cash & carry in CA.

In order to be legal for cash & carry, the C&R long gun must be 50+ years old. [PC 12078(t)(2)]

The Yugo SKS in question is a M59 and the Zastava M59 was made from 1960-1967.



Penal Code 12078
(t)(2) Subdivision (d) and paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

OK...so if I make an offer and it's accepted, we're gonna have to use an FFL. Right?

Quiet
03-20-2010, 8:33 AM
OK...so if I make an offer and it's accepted, we're gonna have to use an FFL. Right?

Yes. It needs to be transfered through a FFL dealer.

JDay
03-20-2010, 8:51 AM
Yep. You're wrong. The age or the rifle is what is key.

ETA: but I think he needs to put the wood stock back on and I'm pretty sure the rifle in it's current configuration is a no-no.

It has the non-detachable 10 round magazine installed so it is not a CA listed AW. That configuration is legal since he followed 922(r). Putting it back into the original configuration is required for it to be C&R, however if it is over 50 years old cash and carry should be legal under CA law either way.

JDay
03-20-2010, 8:57 AM
The Zasatava M59 and M59/66 (Yugo SKS) are C&R rifles, but they do not qualify for cash & carry in CA.

In order to be legal for cash & carry, the C&R long gun must be 50+ years old. [PC 12078(t)(2)]

The Yugo SKS in question is a M59 and the Zastava M59 was made from 1960-1967.


The Yugo M59 is technically not an SKS, its an M59. This is why you can use detachable magazines on them in CA without making an AW.

Lone_Gunman
03-20-2010, 9:09 AM
Thanks for the clarification JDay. I learn something new here every day.

ChuckBooty
03-20-2010, 9:11 AM
The Yugo M59 is technically not an SKS, its an M59. This is why you can use detachable magazines on them in CA without making an AW.

He was saying "no no" meaning that it is not "Cash and Carry" in the current configuration. Not that it violates AW restrictions.

Hey...but I wonder what the length is when the stock is folded. Is that a factor here? BTW...I sent an offer on it so that's why I'm asking.

JDay
03-20-2010, 9:31 AM
He was saying "no no" meaning that it is not "Cash and Carry" in the current configuration. Not that it violates AW restrictions.

Hey...but I wonder what the length is when the stock is folded. Is that a factor here? BTW...I sent an offer on it so that's why I'm asking.

I believe an SKS without a stock still meets the length requirements. That rifle also is not "Cash and Carry" in any configuration.

Nor-Cal
03-20-2010, 11:59 AM
so does that mean I can put detachable magazines on my yugo M59/66 so called variant of the sks.

ChuckBooty
03-20-2010, 12:34 PM
so does that mean I can put detachable magazines on my yugo M59/66 so called variant of the sks.

Yep! As long as it is in compliance with the AW flow chart.

ChuckBooty
03-20-2010, 12:35 PM
Check this thread out: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=45331

ChuckBooty
03-20-2010, 6:36 PM
So...are we 100% sure about this? The seller seems to be pretty adamant that it's a cash and carry.

All PMs replied.
Please stop thread-crapping if you yourself do not have a C&R license and have never read through all the ATF regulatory books each year like I do!!!

The rifle will be reverted to its original C&R configuration during the transfer. This satisfies the federal C&R regulations.
Contrary to popular belief, this is now a CA-legal C&R carbine. :) Note the model designation, M-59, NOT M-59/66, or SKS. SKS is not stamped anywhere on this gun.
1959 to March 2010 spans 51 years plus three months, thus it satisfies the CA 50-year or older vintage regulation.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=257233&page=2

Lone_Gunman
03-20-2010, 6:43 PM
I do know that the specific rifle needs to be 50+ years old not just the "vintage". Otherwise we would be able to cash and carry all kinds of rifles as long as the design and name were 50+ years old. This is not the case.

SJgunguy24
03-20-2010, 6:52 PM
So...are we 100% sure about this? The seller seems to be pretty adamant that it's a cash and carry.



http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=257233&page=2

The seller is wrong, the Yugo M59 and M59/66 cannot be cash and carry. There is no factory "proof marks" to correctly identify the date of manufacture. If you can't prove that it is 50 years or older than take it to an FFL and stay legal. The Russians have factory date marks to ID the year of manufacture.

JDay
03-20-2010, 9:10 PM
The Russians have factory date marks to ID the year of manufacture.

Not all of them do. However you can date the ones that don't pretty easily since the arsenal mark will be on the left side of the receiver on the ones with a blank receiver cover or there will be just an arsenal mark on the receiver cover and no date. These were made in 1955/56. In any case all Russian SKS' are over 50 years old.

JDay
03-20-2010, 9:12 PM
So...are we 100% sure about this? The seller seems to be pretty adamant that it's a cash and carry.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=257233&page=2

Positive.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee148/beachbum762/yugochart.jpg

ETA: I should also add the that M59 was first manufactured in 1960.

SJgunguy24
03-20-2010, 9:48 PM
Bingo, I was looking for that.
Chuckbooty, I know that during the civil war in Yugoslavia a lot of Zestava's records were destroyed. That's a big reason why it can be a guessing game when it comes to dating any Yugo SKS type rifles. I seem to remember seeing this chart on SKSboards.

Positive.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee148/beachbum762/yugochart.jpg

ETA: I should also add the that M59 was first manufactured in 1960.

JDay
03-20-2010, 9:53 PM
Bingo, I was looking for that.
Chuckbooty, I know that during the civil war in Yugoslavia a lot of Zestava's records were destroyed. That's a big reason why it can be a guessing game when it comes to dating any Yugo SKS type rifles. I seem to remember seeing this chart on SKSboards.

The serial on the wood stock leads me to believe that its really a M59/66 also.

HUTCH 7.62
03-20-2010, 10:05 PM
Yep totallay illegal and must be surrendered to me.

Mssr. Eleganté
03-20-2010, 10:22 PM
The serial on the wood stock leads me to believe that its really a M59/66 also.

The rifle is definitely an M59 because of the location of the bayonet lug in relation to the front sight. Or did you just mean the stock is from an M59/66? It's hard to tell on the stock since the only picture of it is cut off before you can see if there is a rubber buttpad.

I wonder if that seller believes all M1911 pistols to be C&R because the model was introduced more than 50 years ago? :p

SJgunguy24
03-21-2010, 3:35 AM
The rifle is definitely an M59 because of the location of the bayonet lug in relation to the front sight. Or did you just mean the stock is from an M59/66? It's hard to tell on the stock since the only picture of it is cut off before you can see if there is a rubber buttpad.

I wonder if that seller believes all M1911 pistols to be C&R because the model was introduced more than 50 years ago? :p



http://i45.tinypic.com/2zgclza.jpg


That is a M59, the gas block on a 59/66 is different and you would see the button for the granede launchers gas diverter in that pic. Like Mssr. Eleganté said the bayonet lug location is wrong for a 59/66. It's part of the front sight assembly on the 59/66. Unless somebody jumped through some serious hoops to replicate a M59 that gun is legit. It still needs to transfer through an FFL.

ChuckBooty
03-21-2010, 8:00 AM
Well hopefully whoever buys it (it IS a pretty nice set up) insists on going through an FFL. I was trying to give him a friendly reminder about the whole thing but he's pretty defiant (after all...HE'S an C&R FFL and reads the regs a lot:rolleyes: )

I've PM'ed a mod but they don't seem all that concerned. I just hope whoever sets up a cash and carry transfer with him isn't an undercover DOJ agent. :eek:

ChuckBooty
03-21-2010, 1:58 PM
This rifle IS NOT 50 years old. You cannot sell it cash and carry to a non C&R license holder in CA.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee148/beachbum762/yugochart.jpg



See above, there is no way this rifle was made 50+ years ago. The serial on the stock is too high for this to be made in 1960 (the first year the M59 was produced).

In one ear and out the other. The fact that the seller won't go through an FFL (even at the request of the buyer) has my spidey senses tingling. Something is fishy IMO.

SJgunguy24
03-21-2010, 2:06 PM
In one ear and out the other. The fact that the seller won't go through an FFL (even at the request of the buyer) has my spidey senses tingling. Something is fishy IMO.



You can lead a horse to water.....

Going off your avatar.......Spider Pig???
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/cp00126/Spider_Pig___Color_by_Ionahipri.jpg

SJgunguy24
03-21-2010, 2:09 PM
Well hopefully whoever buys it (it IS a pretty nice set up) insists on going through an FFL. I was trying to give him a friendly reminder about the whole thing but he's pretty defiant (after all...HE'S an C&R FFL and reads the regs a lot:rolleyes: )
I've PM'ed a mod but they don't seem all that concerned. I just hope whoever sets up a cash and carry transfer with him isn't an undercover DOJ agent. :eek:

He may very well be an 03FFL holder. Outside of California that M59 is cash and carry, but here it needs to be on the list and 50 years or older.

ChuckBooty
03-21-2010, 2:46 PM
Going off your avatar.......Spider Pig???
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/cp00126/Spider_Pig___Color_by_Ionahipri.jpg


LOL...no. It's an homage to oink.me.uk. It was the GREATEST bit torrent site on the planet and the RIAA broke it up after Trent Reznor (of Nine Inch Nails) did an interview where he mentioned how much he likes it. This was the AV that the sites creator used to use.

Cokebottle
03-21-2010, 2:55 PM
I've PM'ed a mod but they don't seem all that concerned. I just hope whoever sets up a cash and carry transfer with him isn't an undercover DOJ agent. :eek:
Either way, he was informed/warned.
It's his problem now.

I agree with you, but I honestly don't understand why you seem to be obsessing over it. Every week, there are dozens of shady transactions, or transactions that are in violation of the rules.

ChuckBooty
03-21-2010, 3:54 PM
Either way, he was informed/warned.
It's his problem now.

I agree with you, but I honestly don't understand why you seem to be obsessing over it. Every week, there are dozens of shady transactions, or transactions that are in violation of the rules.

Yeah...I dunno. Maybe because it's so blatant? Maybe because I really want the SKS but don't have the cash? Maybe because the guy accused me of threadcrapping?

I'll let it go. I'm starting to bore MYSELF with the whole mess. :sleeping:

Cokebottle
03-21-2010, 4:06 PM
Yeah...I dunno. Maybe because it's so blatant? Maybe because I really want the SKS but don't have the cash?
I hear ya... I'd like one too.
Maybe because the guy accused me of threadcrapping?
Well... technically.... ;)
I'll let it go. I'm starting to bore MYSELF with the whole mess. :sleeping:
LOL!

JDay
03-21-2010, 9:49 PM
Yeah...I dunno. Maybe because it's so blatant? Maybe because I really want the SKS but don't have the cash? Maybe because the guy accused me of threadcrapping?

I'll let it go. I'm starting to bore MYSELF with the whole mess. :sleeping:

Just save up for a Russian, it'll have a chrome lined bore.

motorhead
03-22-2010, 1:48 AM
m59 might, m59/66 does not, based on age.

JDay
03-22-2010, 6:11 AM
m59 might, m59/66 does not, based on age.

There is no way to verify the age of a m59. Not to mention they didn't start making them until 1960. I have very few firearms that I can tell you the exact date of manufacture for.