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Ca Patriot
03-17-2010, 3:01 PM
I play on a team in an adult basketball leauge . On Monday, 4 of us went to a junior high across the street from my house at 3:45 pm to practice. We simply walked onto campus. There are 4 outdoor basketball courts. Two were being used and two were open. We started shooting around and practing.

Within about 5 minutes a female teacher came over to us and said we were not allowed on school campus until after 4pm. My friend looked at his watch and it was 3:54. We all kind of laughed and then realized she was serious and told us we had to leave and come back after 4pm. She then said "we have kids out here and we have called the police before over these safety issues and it wont be a problem for us to call again". She said it in a very snooty and somewhat threatening way.

I told my friends lets just walk off campus and come back. As we walked my friend started arguing with her and getting personal and heated. Just as we came to the sidewalk where we were off campus the principal came out and over to talk to us.

The principal asked us what the problem was and we explained.

I have to admitt I wasnt paying much attention because my friend was arguing loudly and getting a little out of line. I REALLY wanted to speak with the principal about the legal issues but due to my friends attitude it just wasnt possible.

However, I got one tidbit of gold information. The principal said that after 4pm the "school zone" ceases to be a school zone protected by most CA laws. She volunteered an example. She said "see this sign here that says no tabacoo allowed on schools grounds? That only applies until 4pm"

I thought to myself, well, I wonder how that affects the gun free school zone.

I am going to follow up on the issue and get some clarification. According to the principal, she made it sound very much like a school zone

POLICESTATE
03-17-2010, 3:04 PM
The principal said that after 4pm the "school zone" ceases to be a school zone protected by most CA laws

I'll bet you dollars to donuts the Gun Free Zone is a 24/7 thing.

dwh100
03-17-2010, 3:06 PM
Trust a principals knowledge of the law like you would an LEOs knowledge of the law.



DON"T TRUST THEIR KNOWLEGE!!!!

Spaceghost
03-17-2010, 3:07 PM
I would even give dollars to peanuts odds.

The principal said that after 4pm the "school zone" ceases to be a school zone protected by most CA laws

I'll bet you dollars to donuts the Gun Free Zone is a 24/7 thing.

POLICESTATE
03-17-2010, 3:09 PM
Yeah I wouldn't smoke tobacco there after 4pm either. I think that principal is FOS

IGOTDIRT4U
03-17-2010, 3:31 PM
Fed GFSZ act and the CA act conflict.

Also, unless it was posted that the "school zone" restrictions end at 4:00, I wouldn't take anything at the word of school personnel.

yelohamr
03-17-2010, 3:48 PM
A few months ago, when there was the gun buy back in San Diego, it was at or near a school and SDPD stated it was ok because school was not in session. I think it was during the Christmas break.

I wouldn't try it unless there is actual wording in the PC.

bulgron
03-17-2010, 4:05 PM
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I have to admitt I wasnt paying much attention because my friend was arguing loudly and getting a little out of line. I REALLY wanted to speak with the principal about the legal issues but due to my friends attitude it just wasnt possible.


No comment on the rest of your story, but I will say that if you're on school property during school hours, then you'd better not cop an attitude when you get asked to leave. Plenty of parents (I'm one of them) are NOT happy when we hear unknown people are wandering the school when our kids are there. Our kids getting hurt or snatched by an intruder at the school is our worst nightmare. Even if you aren't there with the intention of harming anyone, you guys were probably making enough noise to disrupt classrooms.

Between jerks like your friend and anxious parents, teachers have a tough job in these situations. Your friend deserves a solid ***-whupping for his behavior when you were asked to leave.

And so what if it was only 15 minutes before you were allowed on campus? If the kids are there, get the hell off of campus and stay the hell off of campus.

'nuff said.

Shotgun Man
03-17-2010, 4:15 PM
Where do the teachers smoke? That's crazy that adults can't have tobacco. Cuckoo... Cuckoo... :nuts:

Flopper
03-17-2010, 4:16 PM
A few months ago, when there was the gun buy back in San Diego, it was at or near a school and SDPD stated it was ok because school was not in session. I think it was during the Christmas break.

I wouldn't try it unless there is actual wording in the PC.

Either they had the principal's/school district's permission, or they lied.

Liberty1
03-17-2010, 5:41 PM
626.9 applies 24/7 http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=626-626.11

Ca Patriot
03-17-2010, 5:55 PM
(2) "Safe school zone" means an area that encompasses any of the
following places during regular school hours or within 60 minutes
before or after the schoolday or 60 minutes before or after a
school-sponsored activity at the schoolsite:


What about this code in conjuction with.......

626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).

POLICESTATE
03-17-2010, 5:57 PM
Don't you just love all the laws laws laws laws. Layer upon layer upon layer of poorly written crap.

I Like Guns
03-17-2010, 6:19 PM
That's interesting. I wouldn't try it though. This is Cali after all.

Tweak338
03-17-2010, 6:44 PM
intresting

bulgron
03-17-2010, 8:11 PM
I wonder when Thesus was busted for UOC in a school zone. If it was on the weekend or late in the afternoon, this should have cleared him.

Doheny
03-17-2010, 11:34 PM
No comment on the rest of your story, but I will say that if you're on school property during school hours, then you'd better not cop an attitude when you get asked to leave.

<snip>

'nuff said.

I agree. And find a new friend to play BB with.

secretasianman
03-17-2010, 11:54 PM
629.9 (e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall
apply:
(1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public
or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1
to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds
of the public or private school.

There is no exemption based on the time of day. I wouldn't risk it.

Jond81
03-18-2010, 12:28 AM
The principal said that after 4pm the "school zone" ceases to be a school zone protected by most CA laws

I'll bet you dollars to donuts the Gun Free Zone is a 24/7 thing.

mmmm.........donuts

Liberty1
03-18-2010, 11:17 PM
(2) "Safe school zone" means an area that encompasses any of the
following places during regular school hours or within 60 minutes
before or after the schoolday or 60 minutes before or after a
school-sponsored activity at the schoolsite:


What about this code in conjuction with.......

626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).

The former has nothing to do with the latter...it's 24/7 which may also aid in it's eventual downfall.

triaged
03-19-2010, 12:27 AM
629.9 (e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall
apply:
(1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public
or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1
to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds
of the public or private school.:confused:

Decoligny
03-19-2010, 7:56 AM
(2) "Safe school zone" means an area that encompasses any of the
following places during regular school hours or within 60 minutes
before or after the schoolday or 60 minutes before or after a
school-sponsored activity at the schoolsite:


What about this code in conjuction with.......

626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).

A similar argument was put forth in OCDO where I posted this:

"SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" as defined in PC 626 is NOT the same as "SCHOOL ZONE" as defined in PC 626.9.

Each has its own seperate definition and each is applicable to only certain specific sections of the Penal Code.

SAFE SCHOOL ZONE, PC 626 (c) (2) (b):

(2) "Safe school zone" means an area that encompasses any of the following places during regular school hours or within 60 minutes before or after the schoolday or 60 minutes before or after a school-sponsored activity at the schoolsite:
(A) Within 100 feet of a bus stop, whether or not a public transit bus stop, that has been publicly designated by the school district as a schoolbus stop. This definition applies only if the school district has chosen to mark the bus stop as a schoolbus stop.
(B) Within 1,500 feet of a school, as designated by the school district.


The term "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" is only defined in order to justify harsher sentencing if convicted of certain criminal activities if they occurred in the "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE".
Those specific crimes are:
220: assault with intent to commit mayhem, rape, sodomy, oral copulation
261: rape
261.5: unlawful sexual intercourse with person under 18 years.
264.1: punishment when defendant acted in concert with another person to commit rape
266j: providing or transporting child under 16 for purpose of lewd or lascivious acts

The only instance other than 626 (the definition) where the term "SAFE SCHOOL ZONE" is used in the entire Penal Code is here where it states what I just wrote above:

PC 1170.86. Upon conviction of a felony violation of Section 220, 261, 261.5, 264.1, or 266j the fact that the felony was committed within a SAFE SCHOOL ZONE, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 626, against a victim who was a pupil currently attending school, shall be considered a circumstance in aggravation in imposing a term under subdivision (b) of Section 1170.


In PC 626.9, however, the term "SCHOOL ZONE" is defined specifically, and that definition applies ONLY to PC 626.9 as stated below.

SCHOOL ZONE, PC 626.9 (e) (1):

(e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall apply:
(1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.

RP1911
03-19-2010, 11:07 AM
Don't forget 626.85 has it's own definition.

"School activity" means and includes any school session, any
extracurricular activity or event sponsored by or participated in by
the school, and the 30-minute periods immediately preceding and
following any session, activity, or event.

Tankhatch
03-19-2010, 11:21 AM
In Cupertino, some the grass fields next to / part of the campus of the public schools, are "Parks". Granted, you must first "trespass" on school property to get to them,,,,, but there are still, non the less, "Cupertino Parks". Check out what deptartment,,,,, school or parks,,,, is responsible "on paper"