PDA

View Full Version : Case dropped/never filed How do i get my guns back


8bflylow
03-16-2010, 10:57 AM
A month ago i was arrested on alleged 10851 (a) vc case. Basically i was pulled over on the street, questioned, searched, driven to my house and my house was searched and my guns taken away. I was thrown in jail for 2 days and I bailed out for $3000. On my court date I went to court and my name was not there. I went to the DA office and asked them what happend. They printed me a paper that said my case was declined/insufficient evidence.

What is the procedure to get my guns back? Do i have a civil case going for me? I was never read my rights, my house was searched for no reason, i never was near or knew about a stolen car. I just want my guns back. Is there any way to get my 3000 bucks back for bail since i was arrested for nothing?! :(

8bflylow
03-16-2010, 10:59 AM
I have no criminal history and my record is clean also....if that helps. I had a person in my car that was on parole. We had nothing illegal on us. No guns, drugs, nothing even suspicous.

bwiese
03-16-2010, 11:04 AM
I'm not sure what a 10851(a) charge is, I can't find it - perhaps you mistyped it.

BTW I hope you didn't consent to search. You really sound like you were rousted. You may possibly have some civil rights issues that could be addressed outside the sphere of gun matters, bail, etc. I can't speak to those details.

As for your guns: go to DOJ website and file an "LEGR" (Law Enforcement Gun Request) along with informing the dept. that you are doing so. You might also want to let them know you'll be inspecting the guns for damage/storage neglect - that may help (may not, too)

If you don't get your guns back in reasonable time (there's essentially a re-DROS waiting period) please let us know here and CGF can help.

JSilvoso
03-16-2010, 11:06 AM
From Cal DOJ website:

My firearm is in the possession of a court or law enforcement agency. What do I need to do to get it back?

To get your firearm back, you must complete a Law Enforcement Gun Release (LEGR) Application http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/legr.pdf [PDF 297 kb / 2 pg] and send the application along with the appropriate processing fee to the Department of Justice. The processing fee for a Law Enforcement Gun Release Application is $20.00 for the first firearm (long gun or handgun), and $3.00 for each additional handgun listed on the application.

If the court or agency in possession of your firearm determines that the firearm was reported stolen, the fee for the stolen firearms(s) will be waived. You must send documentation from the court or agency confirming that the firearm was reported stolen along with the Law Enforcement Gun Release Application to qualify for the fee waiver.

Once DOJ receives your Law Enforcement Gun Release Application, a firearms eligibility check will be conducted to determine if you are lawfully eligible to possess firearms. You will receive a notice of the results. If this notice states that you are eligible to possess firearms, you then take the notice to the court or agency in possession of your firearm to claim it. The notice must be presented to the court or agency within thirty (30) days of the date of the notice. Failure to do so will result in the need to submit a new application and fees to undergo another firearms eligibility check.

Typical DOJ processing time for a Law Enforcement Gun Release Application is four to six weeks.

Submission requirements and processing fees are available on the Law Enforcement Gun Release Application.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#33

oddjob
03-16-2010, 11:08 AM
I think he meant 10851 California Vehicle Code (CVC). Car theft.

8bflylow
03-16-2010, 11:09 AM
thanks guys. Gives me some direction. Im so lost.

BTW i was charged with this. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d04/vc10851.htm

Theft and Unlawful taking or driving of a vehicle.

8bflylow
03-16-2010, 11:12 AM
I didnt consent to a search. I made a right turn in a residential area a little too fast and got pulled over. Sherriff yells get your hands up! my hands go up, tells me to step out. Get walked over to his patrol car hood and i get spread and searched. I remember thinking in my head, well this isnt a routine traffic stop...

8bflylow
03-16-2010, 11:14 AM
2 c&r rifles were taken from me. A yugo m24/47 and a mosin nagant 91/30. Is the process of getting those back the same? They wouldnt be registered to me since they were acquired through private party. The mauser from a fellow calguns member...

Liberty1
03-16-2010, 11:17 AM
guns with a parolee in the car, was he violated (arrested and sent back to prison)?

8bflylow
03-16-2010, 11:19 AM
I had no guns in the vehicle. The firearms were all at home. She was violated because we were both driven to my house. They claimed she stayed with me, they charged her with felony in posession of firearms.

Liberty1
03-16-2010, 11:22 AM
Sounds like a railroad if I ever hear of one. Wish you had it all on tape. Good luck.

Curtis
03-16-2010, 11:26 AM
8bflylow

The LEGR form has you list handguns individually and is limited to three per form, but one form will work for all your rifles. I contacted the DOJ to confirm they received the paperwork. It took me 15 days to get the letter from DOJ (I called and kissed up to them). I would expect it to take longer than the 4 to 6 weeks.

As for the PD, expect that you will get a different story for every person you talk to about the issue. Go directly to the property clerk. In my case she was a civilian and the MOST uninformed person in the process. Expect to get a notice from the PD that your guns will be destroyed in "2 weeks." I have seen this letter from two different departments, with different lengths given, both of them were wrong. Once you start the paper work with DOJ, the clock stops. Even if it takes months and months. And my contact at the DOJ was pissed when I called about the time line issue. He actually contacted the department directly to resolve the issue.

Good luck!

ETA: If they took any ammunition, I would go in and request the ammo back now. Many departments have a policy of not returning ammo...every. When I pushed the subject they stated that they don't return the ammo and the guns at the same time. (The property clerk stated it was illegal to transport ammo and guns in the same vehicle).

8bflylow
03-16-2010, 11:29 AM
Thanks ENG417

i thought the guns were long gone. One officer said, "were gonna melt em all" The process seems so tedious but your information will help me tremendously.

Thank you

Liberty1
03-16-2010, 11:30 AM
I had no guns in the vehicle. The firearms were all at home. She was violated because we were both driven to my house. They claimed she stayed with me, they charged her with felony in posession of firearms.

With a no file it sounds like you have a good civil case. Was the steering column broken or no key needed for start? I can't figure out how they pulled a 10851 (stolen car) out of this. Got the police report to post or PM?

cljpj3
03-16-2010, 11:42 AM
This is one of those situations where it'd be really nice to hear the other side of the story. It might help shed some light on things :).

So far what I can decipher from the OP is that he was living with a parolee, or the parolee was at least staying at his house. The local authorities decided that parolee was in violation and was going to be arrested. They tracked her to his house and thus, when they left, they arrested her. The OP was in the car so he got the same treatment. Back to the house they go to search the parolee's belongings and the weapons were located. Since they charged the OP with 10851 (no idea why, OP didn't clarify this), he can't own a firearm and since the parolee can't, they seized all the firearms.

To answer your question. Charges were dropped, fill out the DOJ form and get your weapons released to you.

Liberty1
03-16-2010, 11:51 AM
Since they charged the OP with 10851 (no idea why, OP didn't clarify this), he can't own a firearm

After conviction no, before yes.

Welcome to CGN!

cljpj3
03-16-2010, 11:52 AM
Thanks for the correction and thanks for the welcome! </hijack>

SVT-40
03-16-2010, 11:52 AM
There seems to a large amount of information missing here. For a 10851 VC arrest to occur there has to be a stolen or "misused" car involved. So someone reported the car you were driving as stolen? Or was it a car in the possession of the parolee?

Parolee in the car also.....Is she your girlfriend? Was she staying with you? Even for one night? If so the parole search of your home may be valid.

If the parolee was at your home and the firearms were available to her (not in a locked safe) they may be held as evidence against her.

Frankly there is just too much info missing or not correctly stated for any reasonable assumptions to be made.

Advice: NEVER allow a parolee to stay at your house. Associate with them at your own risk.....

pbchief2
03-16-2010, 11:52 AM
The rest of his story.

A little background to what happend, its been a long 3 days, apologize for the long story but it leads up to what happend and hopefully provides enough information for good advice or just helpful comments. Any advice help suggestions rants welcomed

This all happend because of my girlfriends past catching up to her, i know her past but i still love her and shes is a good girl.

My girlfriend is on parole for drug charges she commited about 2 years ago. She was using and hanging around the wrong people. They accused her of distributing. She went into state prison for a year and a half and now she has 3 months left on parole. She has been clean and doing very well. 2 months ago asian gang task force raided her house to find an empty baggy in the garage of all the boxed up stuff she had when she left for prison. They used this against her threatening to violate her parole, they countered with a setup. They wanted a "controlled buy". They keep accusing her of still selling and using and hanging around the same people. She kept crying and telling them she doesnt use and does not know anyone selling. She checks in with the PO every month and has been clean ever since she was locked up. But they wouldnt have it. They let her go and harrass her on the phone every 2 weeks or so for the controlled buy. I told her to tell her PO but she said shes afraid to because she doesnt want to anger this task force and create more problems for herself. Since they told her not to tell her PO. Basically i think they have been watching her. She has not been using and works a full time job. If shes not at work she is with me. We are on the right track and walking the right road.

Now a little background about me. I'm Taiwanese decent 25 years old born in California. I have a clear record, the only thing i have ever been charged with is traffic violations. I do not abuse or sell drugs. I am not gang affiliated, im just a regular dude. Some of you may call me the r/c nerd when you see one at the park flying a helicopter.

Thursday night i picked up my girlfriend from her house after work and we went to my house. On the way to dinner i made a slightly quick right turn on a residential street where a patrol unit was posted. I was stopped by the patrol car and it just so happend to be some of the guys from the asian gang unit that raided her house, they recognized my girlfriend so they pulled both of us searched us and threw us in the patrol car. They searched my car and found nothing. I sat in the car for about 2 hours. I was pulled from the car and one of them asked me if i used or sold drugs. He told me to be honest. He asked me do i sell or use crystal meth. I said NO, he said do you own any firearms or illegal firearms. Maybe i made a mistake here and should have told him no, i do not have any guns, but who knows. I said "no illegal firearms only legally registered ones". He said if i went to your house right now what would i find. I said you would find 5 registered rifles and 1 pistol. Throws me back in the car.

All of the sudden we are on the way to my house. Upon arrival a detective or the head asian gang unit guy slams me with "i know your a thief, where is the chevy impala" I say "what are you talking about" This goes on back and forth and he claims he has video of me driving my 4runner around and stealing a chevy impala. Then he asks me about a white hooker named brittney. I said i do not know of any white hooker named brittney. I do not associate with hookers. He claims he has a picture of me and said hooker but would not show it to me. He says he has video of me stealing a chevy impala but again says u will see it later. Now all of this is crazy to me because all i do is work from 9-7pm. I clock in using a electronic fingerprint machine. I am a radio control technician for helicopters planes and vehicles. Everything he accused me of is outragous and impossible. Needless to say at that point i felt helpless. The honest truth didnt seem to even change the way this guy was talking to me. He was so persistant and just angry.

Then the search warrant clears for my house. (doesnt a search warrant take at least a week?) They flip my house. Find my registered guns and seize them. They question me about my guns and what i do with them. I told them i shoot recreationally at west end gun club, a private range. I rarely shoot these days because of ammo prices and i have scarce ammo. They see my NRA magazines all over the place. Anyways I have a recipet here for seized property. It shows all my guns, the ammo, and various cleaning supplies that they took. They keep questioning me and my girlfriend seperatley about the stolen vehicle both of us have no clue about. They really wanted to find something because they pretty much flipped my house inside out. I actually had a chat with 2 of the nicer guys. They asked about my nra membership and i questioned their views on the second ammendment. One sheriff told me about his own ar15.

In the end I get booked for violating 10851 (A) VC a felony charge. Again this is crazy because i really do not know anything about an impala. Im out on bail, she is still in there. My girlfriend was charged for something like parolee in possession of a firearm!? WTF?! she had no gun on her and she barely knows what guns I have in my house. Shes on parole so no bail for her.

I would like to know my options. Funds are tight for me. I dont think i could afford a lawyer at the moment. I really have no idea about this stolen vehicle or how they can even charge me with something i am clueless about, i doubt they have evidence because its just not possible, unless its another guy that sort of looks like me. As far as the girlfriend with posession of firearm i think its just bull. They wanted drugs they didnt find any and they charge us with something they can pull out their hats. sighhh.....Stolen vehicle? what the heck? chevy impala? i rented one and its sad to say those things are terrible why would i steal that? did he mean an old 60's impala in that case those things are kinda cool? but I dont even know!?

I will talk to some lawyers to get ideas. My main concern here, on this forum, is how do i get my prized posessions back? assuming my case is dropped which i think it will, even one of the gang task force officers said he feels bad for me and whats happend. Before he shut the door he said i had a high chance of getting my guns back. What is correct the procedure or course of action to get my firearms?

BigDogatPlay
03-16-2010, 12:04 PM
So from the above we can infer...

** The OP was driving his own car, not a 10851.
** The detectives thought that they had surveillance and a positive ID of the OP doing a 10851.
** Subsequent to a probable cause arrest, they served a search warrant on the OPs house and discovered his firearms.
** OPs girlfriend is a parolee, who has access to the OPs house and hence, to the thinking of the officers, she has access to the firearms and ammo.
** OPs girlfriend goes to county for felon in possession and OP goes for 10851.

Now it seems like the 10851 case must have gone to crap. As above, OP should initiate LEGR process but be prepared for a legal fight as his guns will be considered "evil" by the LEA.

What I don't see anyplace is a status on the girlfriend. Did she get violated and returned to custody? If so, thats a shame.

Advice farther up the thread is golden... associate with parolees at your own risk.

Geo
03-16-2010, 12:05 PM
The felon GF (ex) druggy + guns was a very, very bad decision.

SVT-40
03-16-2010, 12:06 PM
More info Link to the original post:

Kind of a "Dupe"

With info left out of this new post.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=269667

GuyW
03-16-2010, 12:21 PM
Welcome to Amerika....

Please check your naive preconceptions about liberty at the door...

.

Untamed1972
03-16-2010, 12:47 PM
Thursday night i picked up my girlfriend from her house after work and we went to my house. On the way to dinner i made a slightly quick right turn on a residential street where a patrol unit was posted. I was stopped by the patrol car and it just so happend to be some of the guys from the asian gang unit that raided her house, they recognized my girlfriend so they pulled both of us searched us and threw us in the patrol car. They searched my car and found nothing. I sat in the car for about 2 hours. I was pulled from the car and one of them asked me if i used or sold drugs. He told me to be honest. He asked me do i sell or use crystal meth. I said NO, he said do you own any firearms or illegal firearms. Maybe i made a mistake here and should have told him no, i do not have any guns, but who knows. I said "no illegal firearms only legally registered ones". He said if i went to your house right now what would i find. I said you would find 5 registered rifles and 1 pistol. Throws me back in the car.


Prime example of why it's a good idea to know your rights and exercise them.....especially the 5A during a detainment.

For the OP.....in the future.....should you find yourself in cuffs in the back of a patrol car.....STFU! You have no legal obilgation to answer any questions. If they persist......just state you will not answer any questions w/o your attorney present.

Hogxtz
03-16-2010, 12:56 PM
I dont beleive anything is missing from this story. Hard to hear, but I have seen this crap go on all the time.

Hell, one day I was coming home and saw one of our deputies searching my 16 year old boy outside his truck in the standing modified search and ready to hook him. I stopped and asked the deputy what he was doing, he recognized me, and let my son go. WTF??

ocspeedracer
03-16-2010, 12:59 PM
that stinks, sorry to hear about this

liketoshoot
03-16-2010, 3:37 PM
This would be why you should STFU and say where's my lawyer. Might have helped.
It sounds like a setup all the way around.

CSACANNONEER
03-16-2010, 3:44 PM
2 c&r rifles were taken from me. A yugo m24/47 and a mosin nagant 91/30. Is the process of getting those back the same? They wouldnt be registered to me since they were acquired through private party. The mauser from a fellow calguns member...


Or anyone else since, non AW/50BMG long guns are not "registered" in ca. unless, you fill out a voluntary registration form and send it to DOJ yourself. Obviously most long guns are not registered at all!

socal2310
03-16-2010, 4:08 PM
What was the probable cause to search your house? Did they have a search warrant?

CODE SAM (Probation Search Terms)

Ryan

magsnubs
03-16-2010, 4:22 PM
Had to have said in some way that she stays there. STFU, again.

choprzrul
03-16-2010, 4:29 PM
Is this what America has come to represent? Growing up during the end of the cold war, this sounds more like KGB stuff than something from the land of the free. Sad commentary on our state of affairs.

OlderThanDirt
03-16-2010, 4:51 PM
Well, at least there aren't any Old White Guy task forces, yet...but the tin hat part of me thinks they are coming. Some of my relatives in Eastern Europe think we are slowly switching places, with the US becoming more repressive by the day. The fact that this Asian Task Force appears to have blatantly abused their authority points to a systemic problem in their department. Nothing like good community policing and building trust.

magsnubs
03-16-2010, 4:57 PM
That is a very common story, in fact quite mild, compared to many. This is why we are leading the entire world in imprisonment per capita. "tough on crime" means something totally different than most would have us believe!

SCMA-1
03-16-2010, 5:07 PM
Well, at least there aren't any Old White Guy task forces, yet...but the tin hat part of me thinks they are coming. Some of my relatives in Eastern Europe think we are slowly switching places, with the US becoming more repressive by the day. The fact that this Asian Task Force appears to have blatantly abused their authority points to a systemic problem in their department. Nothing like good community policing and building trust.

They take advantage of the submissive and obedient Asian culture, using it to violate people's rights with impunity.

RomanDad
03-16-2010, 5:14 PM
To me it sounds like they lied to him to scare him, to see if they could get him to confess to something.... As it was they got him to implicate his girl in Felon in possession (which I'm sure made their night).


Next time when they start barking things at you about stolen cars and guns please try to say, "I am invoking my right to remain silent, Id like to speak to my attorney. I do not consent to any search" Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

As far as why theyre screwing with you, I hope shes worth it, because this is what the term "Damaged goods" means. Shes on parole. Which for all intents and purposes means SHE'S STILL IN PRISON, except you cant see the walls... And as long as she's on parole, and you're hanging out with her, you need to be prepared to be treated like you're on parole as well.. If you want to be around her, you're going to have to amend YOUR behavior to keep HER from getting in trouble for things you take for granted.

bubbapug1
03-16-2010, 5:15 PM
The police can and do as they please, anywhere to anyone unless you are super rich and can afford to fight the system. And by rich I mean not a stinking lousey single digit multi millionaire...they (the DA) can burn your savings up in court in two weeks if thats all you have.

I had my house invaded by a OC swat team, 6 squad cars on the street, and a helicopter in the air overhead...no one was home except my pug...who was almost blown up by the stun gernade they threw into the house after kicking in the front door....They tore the place up...it was a shambles, no warrant, no probable cause....a neighbor...drunk off her *** at 3:30 on a monday afternoon said she heard a gunshoot from the house...turns out this was from some kids on the next street blowing off fireworks...

I am getting frantic calls from my fiance telling me the cops have invaded the house. She lived two doors down....

Now this is not inglewood, not that inglewood has issues, but the police are maybe a bit more gun shy there, or maybe not....its Laguna Niguel, in a 4000 square foot house, no police record, a soccer flag on the flag pole.....

I drive up two hours later as the police are packing up...no hey, we searched your house based on PB, hey we searched your house because your neighbor said she heard shots fired from within, sorry for the mess, no...anything but...

Mister what do you have in that gun safe we could't get open....

It was a very tense scene....I'm a 45 year old balding white guy living in a suburban house and these guys have guns drawn ready and pointed at me when I get out of my car.....they already found nothing but they are pumped and ready to rock I guess..

I asked them why they broke into my house, if they had a warrant, and than they left without saying a word.

This was in 2001...no explanation at all from the police, just from the drunks son...The police were driving around the area looking for the cause of the noise and when she pointed at my house and that was all it took....

This was pre-calguns when I had one ruger security six, a 270 and my old 12 gauge pump....

So....be careful and keep your stuff locked up.

Texas Boy
03-16-2010, 9:13 PM
To the OP:

First off, my sympathies. The "War on Drugs", not unlike the "War on Terror" has resulted in many miscarriages of justice in the name of security. I hope your GF has a good lawyer and your guns were locked up so she did not have access - if so the possession charges should be easy to beat. Getting your guns back will be a hassle, but if you invest the time you should get them back.

Now, PLEASE watch this video. It is a lawyer (law school professor I believe) giving a public speech why you should NEVER talk to the police under any circumstances. He gives numerous examples how you can be 100% innocent, tell nothing but the truth, have an iron clad alibi, and still wind up screwing yourself by talking to the police.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Remember, the 5th amendment is there to protect the innocent. Use it with pride and honor.

-Mark

chavez27
03-17-2010, 10:27 AM
The police can and do as they please, anywhere to anyone unless you are super rich and can afford to fight the system. And by rich I mean not a stinking lousey single digit multi millionaire...they (the DA) can burn your savings up in court in two weeks if thats all you have.

I had my house invaded by a OC swat team, 6 squad cars on the street, and a helicopter in the air overhead...no one was home except my pug...who was almost blown up by the stun gernade they threw into the house after kicking in the front door....They tore the place up...it was a shambles, no warrant, no probable cause....a neighbor...drunk off her *** at 3:30 on a monday afternoon said she heard a gunshoot from the house...turns out this was from some kids on the next street blowing off fireworks...

I am getting frantic calls from my fiance telling me the cops have invaded the house. She lived two doors down....

Now this is not inglewood, not that inglewood has issues, but the police are maybe a bit more gun shy there, or maybe not....its Laguna Niguel, in a 4000 square foot house, no police record, a soccer flag on the flag pole.....

I drive up two hours later as the police are packing up...no hey, we searched your house based on PB, hey we searched your house because your neighbor said she heard shots fired from within, sorry for the mess, no...anything but...

Mister what do you have in that gun safe we could't get open....

It was a very tense scene....I'm a 45 year old balding white guy living in a suburban house and these guys have guns drawn ready and pointed at me when I get out of my car.....they already found nothing but they are pumped and ready to rock I guess..

I asked them why they broke into my house, if they had a warrant, and than they left without saying a word.

This was in 2001...no explanation at all from the police, just from the drunks son...The police were driving around the area looking for the cause of the noise and when she pointed at my house and that was all it took....

This was pre-calguns when I had one ruger security six, a 270 and my old 12 gauge pump....

So....be careful and keep your stuff locked up.

what ever became of this whole situation? did they damage any of your property?