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View Full Version : Customer Wants AK Folding Stock in California


AKdan
03-16-2010, 10:47 AM
Hey Guys,

While it seems like you all have some wierd stock configuration laws in Kali - I don't see any DOJ restrictions except AB-962 on ammo that would restrict the folding stock to be shipped to Kali - just that the customer can't legally install it on his AK ???:eek:

Any info on shipping of AK Folding stocks to Kali - would be greatly appreciated !!!

bwiese
03-16-2010, 10:49 AM
Parts in general are not controlled. Go send it.

And he indeed can have a folder stock on his AK if he uses a BulletButton device and 10rd magazine - that makes his mag "nondetachable" per regulation, and then the gun (regardless of evil features) falls out of CA AW status.

AKdan
03-16-2010, 10:55 AM
Thanks Bill, so does it follow that if they leave the thumbhole stock on their AK - they can use high cap mags ???

Sarkoon
03-16-2010, 11:00 AM
Parts in general are not controlled. Go send it.

And he indeed can have a folder stock on his AK if he uses a BulletButton device and 10rd magazine - that makes his mag "nondetachable" per regulation, and then the gun (regardless of evil features) falls out of CA AW status.

I don't think I've ever had to correct you Bill, however in this case I believe you're wrong. If a semi-automatic centerfire rifle has a folding stock that while folded makes the rifle less than 30" long, and the rifle can be fired with the stock folded, it is an assault weapon regardless of whether or not it has a bullet button installed.

That said, it's still not illegal to ship a folding stock to a CA customer - however the customer would be breaking a law if he were to end up with a weapon under 30" long that can be fired in that configuration.

sbrady@Michel&Associates
03-16-2010, 11:05 AM
Just make sure that the firearm to which the stock will be affixed does not measure less than 26" in total length WITH THE STOCK FOLDED. That could trigger SBR status under California law (See People v. Daniel Patrick Rooney (1993) 17 Cal.App.4th 1207, 1211-1212).

I know this is more of a concern for the purchaser, but you probably want to avoid any potential headache associated with selling an item that gets someone in criminal trouble.

As for the high-cap mags, with the bullet-button affixed one should still use only 10rd- mags. Although we disagree with DOJ that a BB creates a "fixed magazine," that is their view and you do not want to be the test case. Wait until this gets resolved.

ChuckBooty
03-16-2010, 12:02 PM
Just to make it easy on yourself, go ahead and ship him the part, let him know that it's up to HIM to make sure that he's legal, and refer him to calguns.net to figure out how. He can easily use the flow chart and the other resources here to take if from there.

AKdan
03-16-2010, 12:26 PM
He says he's aware & that the Tantal has a long flash-hider - but DOJ is weird...

I'm just a bit gunshy - b/c on September 8th of 2001 (before the 11th of that fateful year...) I shipped INERT M-72A1 & INERT AT-4 Tubes to Kali - that Calif. DOJ said would be OK with 1/4 holes drilled through with bolts - from my eBay auctions for these items - but then 9/11/2001 happens & the ATF & Army CID show up at my house - seizing ALL my L.A.W. Tubes & AT-4 tubes telling the Denver Post how they saved America from Terrorists arming themselves (?) with EMPTY-INERT LAW & AT-4 Tubes - WTF ???

(See Denver Post article 'Bizarre Arms Deal' - Oct. 8, 2001 pg. B-8 - as the Lib's at the Denver Post helped the Feds pretend they were 'Saving Us' !!!) :eek:

Dr Rockso
03-16-2010, 12:28 PM
Hey Guys,

While it seems like you all have some wierd stock configuration laws in Kali - I don't see any DOJ restrictions except AB-962 on ammo that would restrict the folding stock to be shipped to Kali - just that the customer can't legally install it on his AK ???:eek:

Any info on shipping of AK Folding stocks to Kali - would be greatly appreciated !!!

It's also entirely possible that the customer has a 'registered assault weapon' per CA law (purchased before the ban). If that is the case he can install as many folding stocks and flash hiders as he wants without breaking any laws, and use whatever magazines he legally possesses regardless of their capacity.

Nodda Duma
03-16-2010, 1:40 PM
Hah that's funny...I remember that. Figured it was a knee-jerk reaction due to 9/11......glad to see you made out ok. ATF probably would have come to visit even if you had shipped to a free state.

-Jason

He says he's aware & that the Tantal has a long flash-hider - but DOJ is weird...

I'm just a bit gunshy - b/c on September 8th of 2001 (before the 11th of that fateful year...) I shipped INERT M-72A1 & INERT AT-4 Tubes to Kali - that Calif. DOJ said would be OK with 1/4 holes drilled through with bolts - from my eBay auctions for these items - but then 9/11/2001 happens & the ATF & Army CID show up at my house - seizing ALL my L.A.W. Tubes & AT-4 tubes telling the Denver Post how they saved America from Terrorists arming themselves (?) with EMPTY-INERT LAW & AT-4 Tubes - WTF ???

(See Denver Post article 'Bizarre Arms Deal' - Oct. 8, 2001 pg. B-8 - as the Lib's at the Denver Post helped the Feds pretend they were 'Saving Us' !!!) :eek:

AM9000
03-16-2010, 1:47 PM
Parts in general are not controlled. Go send it.

And he indeed can have a folder stock on his AK if he uses a BulletButton device and 10rd magazine - that makes his mag "nondetachable" per regulation, and then the gun (regardless of evil features) falls out of CA AW status.

This is the bottom line. Parts of this nature are not regulated.


PS. I am the customer in question. I am very aware of CA laws regarding overall length, and the necessity mag locking devices. Please send out my stock ASAP.

expensivehobbies
03-16-2010, 2:35 PM
He says he's aware & that the Tantal has a long flash-hider - but DOJ is weird...

I'm just a bit gunshy - b/c on September 8th of 2001 (before the 11th of that fateful year...) I shipped INERT M-72A1 & INERT AT-4 Tubes to Kali - that Calif. DOJ said would be OK with 1/4 holes drilled through with bolts - from my eBay auctions for these items - but then 9/11/2001 happens & the ATF & Army CID show up at my house - seizing ALL my L.A.W. Tubes & AT-4 tubes telling the Denver Post how they saved America from Terrorists arming themselves (?) with EMPTY-INERT LAW & AT-4 Tubes - WTF ???

(See Denver Post article 'Bizarre Arms Deal' - Oct. 8, 2001 pg. B-8 - as the Lib's at the Denver Post helped the Feds pretend they were 'Saving Us' !!!) :eek:


And this is why I cant get too mad about companies / people that just don't deal with California....... Good on you for doing business with us in CA again though!

bwiese
03-16-2010, 2:36 PM
I don't think I've ever had to correct you Bill, however in this case I believe you're wrong. If a semi-automatic centerfire rifle has a folding stock that while folded makes the rifle less than 30" long, and the rifle can be fired with the stock folded, it is an assault weapon regardless of whether or not it has a bullet button installed.

That said, it's still not illegal to ship a folding stock to a CA customer - however the customer would be breaking a law if he were to end up with a weapon under 30" long that can be fired in that configuration.

True, that is also always a concern for semiauto centerfire rifles, and I forgot to mention it in my fast writing.

However, the Calguns flowchart covers it ;)

AM9000
03-16-2010, 2:42 PM
He says he's aware & that the Tantal has a long flash-hider - but DOJ is weird...

I'm just a bit gunshy - b/c on September 8th of 2001 (before the 11th of that fateful year...) I shipped INERT M-72A1 & INERT AT-4 Tubes to Kali - that Calif. DOJ said would be OK with 1/4 holes drilled through with bolts - from my eBay auctions for these items - but then 9/11/2001 happens & the ATF & Army CID show up at my house - seizing ALL my L.A.W. Tubes & AT-4 tubes telling the Denver Post how they saved America from Terrorists arming themselves (?) with EMPTY-INERT LAW & AT-4 Tubes - WTF ???

(See Denver Post article 'Bizarre Arms Deal' - Oct. 8, 2001 pg. B-8 - as the Lib's at the Denver Post helped the Feds pretend they were 'Saving Us' !!!) :eek:

What does the Army CID and ATF have to do with California? Sounds like these were feds and it had more to do with 9/11 than anything to do with California.