PDA

View Full Version : Fumigation, safe inspection?


sonico
03-15-2010, 2:03 PM
This is kind of a strange one:

A friend of mine's condo is getting tented/fumigated and the fumigation company has told him they need to look in his large gun safe to verify there is no one hiding inside before they begin fumigation. Hiding in his mostly airtight fireproof safe. Apparently there was vague reference made to some State law or other. They don't want him to leave it open or anything like that, just verify no one is inside and lock it up.

Obviously, this doesn't sound legitimate at all. I just wondered if anyone knew whether it was rooted in state law/code or just company policy?

POLICESTATE
03-15-2010, 2:05 PM
I'd take all the guns and stuff out, wouldn't want their chemicals on my guns, they can look at an empty safe would be fine w/ me

Kharn
03-15-2010, 2:06 PM
Take everything out, but yes, they are required to check anywhere a child could hide.

sixniner
03-15-2010, 2:08 PM
If the guy has a big safe that someone can hide in, moving all the guns out would be a logistic problem; where would he store them in the meantime and not getting in hot water with the DOJ

POLICESTATE
03-15-2010, 2:12 PM
Could just put a sheet over the guns then? I would not be cool with some dude just looking at my guns like that. You don't know anything about them.

Fate
03-15-2010, 2:13 PM
If the guy has a big safe that someone can hide in, moving all the guns out would be a logistic problem; where would he store them in the meantime and not getting in hot water with the DOJ

??? There are no laws demanding you lock up your guns while being stored. Laws about minors getting access to them and using/taking them into public/hurting others, etc, but nothing like what you are talking about.

timdps
03-15-2010, 2:23 PM
Remove the guns to a closet before the inspection, let them inspect, then put the guns back in?

Tim

POLICESTATE
03-15-2010, 2:25 PM
Remove the guns to a closet before the inspection, let them inspect, then put the guns back in?

Tim

They'll prolly look in the closet though, maybe if you put in closet, let them inspect safe, then leave the room while you put them back into the safe?

sonico
03-15-2010, 2:31 PM
Yeah removing and putting them back is an option I guess. I don't see why he can't just sign something verifying there are no children in his gun safe.

There's always the chance he accidentally puts a kid in there when he moves the guns back from the closet right? :rolleyes:

I'm sure this requirement is rooted in tragedy, but it just seems silly to look in a locked fireproof gunsafe. "Won't somebody think of the children" I suppose.

POLICESTATE
03-15-2010, 2:34 PM
Yeah removing and putting them back is an option I guess. I don't see why he can't just sign something verifying there are no children in his gun safe.

There's always the chance he accidentally puts a kid in there when he moves the guns back from the closet right? :rolleyes:

I'm sure this requirement is rooted in tragedy, but it just seems silly to look in a locked fireproof gunsafe. "Won't somebody think of the children" I suppose.

Yeah most weird regulations are rooted in a knee-jerk reaction to what is usually a freak tragedy.

PaperPuncher
03-15-2010, 2:39 PM
Best thing to do is to say "sure, hang on outside while I go empty my safe and hide the contents from you, then you may come in and verify that no one is inside the safe. Then I will need to leave the premises while I put everything back in."

If a guy decides to grant access to his safe, the contents (most likely guns) are going to be exposed in some manner. This would be when you decide whether or not you will keep a loaded one on you while in your home during the inspection. If you decide to open your safe for someone and you are not armed, do you really feel comfortable enough with that person to give them access to your firearms? They could easily grab one, turn it on you and you can use your imagination for the rest.

If there is some verifiable requirement for this inspection I would have your friend require that a supervisor or manager come and verify that there is not a child in your safe. At the very least a phone call to the office is in order just as a gut check for the guy asking for the inspection. If the guy is quick to forego the inspection or reluctant to have you contact the office then call the police and report it. Not that you can trust the supervisor any more than the person standing right there requiring the inspection but at least you will have some minor verification that he is not making it up just to see what is in the safe that he will potentially have plenty of time to take from your residence while you are under the impression that you can not enter for fear of your life.

I might even make up some requirements of my own that will deter these guys from completing the inspection and at least delay the work. Time is money in this economy for both the fumigators and the property management. Have them sign a waiver or something that they will not be willing to do in order to cause a stalemate. I mean really, even the cops would need a warrant. Do they have a warrant, is there reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed or in progress. He may have an obligation to check for potential hazards but he has no authority to force anyone into opening their safe. I would assume he must take you on your word unless there is some other circumstance that dictates otherwise and even at that point the authorities would be the ones issuing the request/warrant, not the fumigators.

The reason I have a safe is for this exact situation. That stuff is locked up because I don't want anyone to know what I have to lock up.

And really, wouldn't you relocate your captive child during the fumigation process anyway. What are the chances you forgot that there is a kid locked up in your safe and how many children have been found dead, locked in a safe, after a house was fumigated. Oh, wait, its for the kids, nevermind.

Sniper3142
03-15-2010, 2:45 PM
I've had my place fumigated and there was no such requirement that I open my safe for them.

:(

I'd ask to see in writing where this is a requirement.

Window_Seat
03-15-2010, 2:48 PM
Would it be practical or physically possible to remove the entire gun safe? I would certainly consider.

Erik.

Fate
03-15-2010, 4:34 PM
I don't see anything about inspecting the inside of a gun safe:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=bpc&group=08001-09000&file=8500-8519.5

Full code is here: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=bpc&codebody=&hits=20

esskay
03-15-2010, 11:24 PM
When we got fumigated, I recall something about letting the fumigator inspect inside any safes. I can't remember if this was in a written or verbal instruction, but I think it was in advance of the actual fumigation. On the day of, the actual fumigator guy didn't ask...

I would add that the idea of moving guns around doesn't really work due to logistics. The fumigators show up and start tarping the whole structure and running lines for the gas, while they walk the property with you. This doesn't take them that long, and then you leave and they start pumping the house full of the Vikane gas. Even if you wanted to, it wouldn't work well to be moving guns around during this (surprisingly rapid) process. But in any case, you wouldn't really want to leave them there while the place is tented for a couple days if you can help it. In my case, I secured valuables (including guns) in another secure location during the fumigation.

Curtis
03-16-2010, 6:57 AM
I assume that the fumigating company and/or condo association sent out a standard notice. I wouldn't disclose that I had a gun safe. If they already know he has a safe....that is an issue for another thread.

chuckdc
03-16-2010, 10:07 AM
I'd try to get a couple of friends to store the guns for me for the couple days I was out of the house while it was being gassed.

ldsnet
03-16-2010, 10:08 AM
I had the same issue 4 years ago when my house was tented. The fumigator needed the safe open not for verification purposes, but so he could verify a safe atmosphere in the house when the tent was removed. Could not have ANY sealed spaces.

I had the luxury of using my travel trailer for the week, so the weapons collection went with us for the few days.

Be sure to clean EVERYTHING when they are done. Its common practice to use a mace like irritant with the termite gas to keep people out of the house. the problem is the irritant is a powder and will remain after the gas is gone. It took us months to get the irritant out of the house (espically since my wife was alergic to the stuff)

Scout106
03-16-2010, 7:12 PM
I refused to leave it open as I was out of town when the house was fumigated.
I signed a waiver/affidavit for the termite company, a copy of which was posted on the safe door. That was it.