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View Full Version : I call it "KISS, with a touch of Magpul"


CHS
03-03-2010, 5:08 PM
DD XV Base Rifle
Magpul MOE Handguards
Magpul MOE Grip
Magpul MOE Stock
Magpul MOE Trigger guard
Magpul enhanced rubber buttpad
Smith Vortex flash hider
Badger Tactical Latch Gen II
LMT Rear sight (TRS)


I wanted an iron-sights, KISS rifle, but with a few little upgrades and creature comforts. I think I kept to the KISS theme without it being barebones basic.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m446/bdsmchs/DDXVMOEKISS.jpg

ETA: I totally forgot, total weight: exactly 7 pounds! Suck it, rail lovers! :)

Flogger23m
03-03-2010, 5:10 PM
IMO, that isn't KISS.

Cool rifle either way.

GMONEY
03-03-2010, 5:10 PM
nothing KISS about this... :)

Gio
03-03-2010, 5:10 PM
Looks clean, I like it.

-Gio

00BuckShot
03-03-2010, 5:11 PM
No KISS for you! Nice rifle though!

CHS
03-03-2010, 5:16 PM
Basic plastic stock
Basic plastic grip
Basic plastic handguards
Basic iron sights

What's not KISS about it?

Gio
03-03-2010, 5:18 PM
Basic plastic stock
Basic plastic grip
Basic plastic handguards
Basic iron sights

What's not KISS about it?

I guess that is too much bling in today's standards :laugh:

To me it is KISS because there is not $400 or more red dot or scope ;)

-Gio

tomd1584
03-03-2010, 5:24 PM
well lets see: (OP, i agree with you)

KISS= Keep It Simple Stupid

what the hell is NOT simple about it?

technique
03-03-2010, 5:27 PM
Everyone here thinks KISS means something other than it really does.

KISS = the minimal amount of gear you need to complete your mission. Nothing extra. That rifle is KISS, you can put a light on it and as long as your mission requires a light...it's still KISS. Mission drives the gear.

NapaCountyShooter
03-03-2010, 5:29 PM
Very clean. I love it. Looking at doing something similar soon.

Toolbox X
03-03-2010, 5:31 PM
Everyone knows that zombies can only be killed by rifles with 3+ linear feet of rails. You're dead.

Gio
03-03-2010, 5:32 PM
Everyone here thinks KISS means something other than it really does.

KISS = the minimal amount of gear you need to complete your mission. Nothing extra. That rifle is KISS, you can put a light on it and as long as your mission requires a light...it's still KISS. Mission drives the gear.

Amen to that brotha! :iagree:

-Gio

Maximusmax51
03-03-2010, 5:34 PM
+1 for a KISS rifle! I have the same set up on my first born.

Jwood562
03-03-2010, 5:53 PM
everyone thinks KISS means kinda retro style (a2 buttstock and upper) but I agree with the OP this is pretty straight forward and simple

nice KISS rifle

CHS
03-03-2010, 6:51 PM
Or maybe I should call it "KISS but Komfy!", since people seem to think KISS means uncomfortable crappy unergonomic plastic :)

pacrimguru
03-03-2010, 6:53 PM
nice kiss build, i like the light weightedness of it. good job on the picture too.

Greg-Dawg
03-03-2010, 6:54 PM
I call mine the same:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Pin%20Ups/LatestAR15003.jpg

CHS
03-03-2010, 6:55 PM
nice kiss build, i like the light weightedness of it. good job on the picture too.

Yeah, used the light-box at work :)

Trevor
03-03-2010, 6:56 PM
Everyone here thinks KISS means something other than it really does.

KISS = the minimal amount of gear you need to complete your mission. Nothing extra. That rifle is KISS, you can put a light on it and as long as your mission requires a light...it's still KISS. Mission drives the gear.

Couldn't agree more.

Slugo
03-03-2010, 6:57 PM
Label it what you will...I like it. Nice rifle! :cool:

evidens83
03-03-2010, 7:00 PM
Looks KISS to me. Good job I like it plain and simple!

Joerocker
03-03-2010, 7:01 PM
I Like It!

Knight
03-03-2010, 7:03 PM
Nice modern take on the KISS build. Looks good!

JBird33
03-03-2010, 7:26 PM
To me it isn't KISS with a collapsable stock. Very nice either way though :)

dakobster81
03-03-2010, 7:29 PM
he called it KISS with a touch of magpul, exactly what it is, nice rifle

Capt Jack
03-03-2010, 7:36 PM
Don't get too worked up about it not being "KISS", we get too hung up on the proper labels. Just look at the SPR picture thread. Half the posts are people arguing about what an SPR is to begin with! My take on KISS is basically irons and whatever else you "need" without looking too much like a mall ninja with a 20 pound AR! :shuriken:

Anyway, nice build, I have a KISS rifle (at least according to my definition) and I do plan on adding a Magpul handguard and MOE buttstock. I guess I'll have to call it something else then :rolleyes:

epic4444
03-03-2010, 7:47 PM
Nice, i actually just did the exact same idea, KISS with magpul assc. Probably make a thread of it later this week.

epic4444
03-03-2010, 7:50 PM
Instead of calling it a kiss i think i'll call mine a MOE Battle Rifle, just a simple carbine with magpul upgrades, only what you need to be consider a battle weapon, no laser, rails or 500 dollar eotechs.

8200rpm
03-03-2010, 8:07 PM
Mission drives the gear.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Portals/0-Articles/144187/sasE.jpg
New Zealander SAS
Mission: To provide support on the war on terror in Afghanistan by helping to build the capacity of the Afghan National Police...

M4 ✔
Sound suppressor ✔
ACOG ✔
Rail ✔
Sling ✔
Flashlight ✔
Magazine retention cord ✔

I doubt that the average bullet button owner has a "mission" other than to shoot off a few rounds at the range and take pictures for the internet.

Nice carbine, but I would have gone with a DD rear BUIS.

IrishPirate
03-03-2010, 8:17 PM
What's not KISS about it?

It doesn't have an ingraving of this on the receiver...???
http://www.thesunblog.com/frosting/kiss2.jpg



I think it's great. That's how I'd make my KISS rifle. no tacticool goodness, no fancy red dot, no lasers or flashlights, no VFG......simple (as in Keep It Simple Stupid)

how much did it cost you???

ArkinDomino
03-03-2010, 8:24 PM
That is KISS... No RDS/Scope and no rail.

CHS
03-03-2010, 8:40 PM
Nice carbine, but I would have gone with a DD rear BUIS.

That's not a BUIS.

That's a primary.

I sold the DD precisely because it WAS a BUIS. I bought the LMT because I needed a primary since I was going to be running only irons.

CHS
03-03-2010, 8:43 PM
how much did it cost you???

I don't know... :)

GF bought me the rifle as a Valentines day gift, along with a stripped Mega lower receiver.

MOE stock was free. MOE handguards were free. I got the vortex, LMT sight, and badger latch for 10% over wholesale, so that added about $140 to the cost or so, vs $190'ish.

So, DROS plus a few accessories..... Maybe $250?

bombadillo
03-03-2010, 8:54 PM
I don't get the whole KISS thing being that its keeping it simple stupid. There is nothing complicated about it except maybe a tac-latch. I like it but am not a fan of the MOE stuff in general. Clean build and pretty cool overall.

Ironchef
03-03-2010, 9:06 PM
My KISS M&P15, with a touch of Magpul. And because I'm in the pitch dark rural mountainside, and there's a pair of yearling mountain lions roaming our hood, the light is also KISS.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk103/lronchef/mp15.jpg

CHS
03-03-2010, 9:08 PM
I like it but am not a fan of the MOE stuff in general. Clean build and pretty cool overall.

The standard M4 stock is a loose and very uncomfortable stock. They're clearly not designed for shooters. The Magpul stocks are much more comfortable.

Also, I've never been a fan of the M4 "fat" handguards. The Magpul MOE handguards are slimmer and much more ergonomic and comfortable.

Normally, I would run an Ergo grip, but the MOE grip was free to me, so I'm running it. And, it's not too bad. I still like the Ergo better, but the MOE is pretty comfy.

CHS
03-03-2010, 9:10 PM
My KISS M&P15, with a touch of Magpul. And because I'm in the pitch dark rural mountainside, and there's a pair of yearling mountain lions roaming our hood, the light is also KISS.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk103/lronchef/mp15.jpg

Unless you're planning on going RDS/HWS/ACOG, ditch that BUIS!! Get yourself a rear sight!

8200rpm
03-03-2010, 9:17 PM
I bought the LMT because I needed a primary since I was going to be running only irons.

A windage and elevation adjustable A2 style rear sight is far from "keeping it simple".

From a practical standpoint, an Aimpoint with a 50/200 zero is simpler to use than adjustable iron sights... easier/faster to acquire, reticle on the same plane as the target, thus no need to focus on the front post and blur your target.

CHS
03-03-2010, 9:23 PM
A windage and elevation adjustable A2 style rear sight is far from "keeping it simple".

From a practical standpoint, an Aimpoint with a 50/200 zero is simpler to use than adjustable iron sights... easier/faster to acquire, reticle on the same plane as the target, thus no need to focus on the front post and blur your target.

I don't see how an Aimpoint is any simpler to use. You still have to zero it properly, and that's going to be just as involved as an A2 set of irons. Once you have a proper zero, you're not going to touch either one.

However, the Irons have two huge advantages: no batteries and once they are zeroed they are adjustable for a huge range of distances. The Aimpoint is not.

The only advantage the Aimpoint really has is the sight picture.

8200rpm
03-03-2010, 9:55 PM
However, the Irons have two huge advantages: no batteries and once they are zeroed they are adjustable for a huge range of distances. The Aimpoint is not.


True that Aimpoints need batteries, but they do go for 50,000 hours. Also, do you really plan on using the .223 for a "huge range of distances"? IMHO, these are not "two huge advantages"... more like two insignificant differences. Plus, this isn't a case of irons vs. red dot. I'm merely stating that a red dot is a legitimate part keeping things simple.


The only advantage the Aimpoint really has is the sight picture.

That is one of the most significant features for making fast hits on multiple targets. Giving up your ability to make hits is not keeping it simple. "Simple" for the sake of what?

I can totally understand losing the rail, folding sights, front broomsticks, complicated/heavy stocks, magnifiers, etc., but why give up your ability to make hits quickly and easily?

Don't be shy, throw a red dot on there. Aimpoints are simple, and you know it.;)

greenpea76
03-03-2010, 10:24 PM
That's a sweet KISS!

I think I know where you work..
Looks a lot like a Riflegear rifle :D

CHS
03-03-2010, 10:43 PM
Don't be shy, throw a red dot on there. Aimpoints are simple, and you know it.;)

If I was going to go optic, I would put a Trijicon Reflex on there.

No batteries. Nice big dot. NVG-compatible. Much bigger window than an aimpoint AND an Eotech, and probably tougher than both of them combined :)

But, I like my irons for now.

Rekrab
03-03-2010, 10:58 PM
The only part I see as not simple is the adjustable stock. Fixed A2 would be simple.

But seriously, cool rifle man. :)

Agro
03-03-2010, 11:04 PM
Hey OP, nice rifle! Good choice on parts for cheap and function.

I have something almost exactly like it, but put the Eotech on it (QD larue mount so i can get back to irons if need be).
http://www.farturator.com/amg/ar-15/ar15_m4_complete_1.jpg

crackerman
03-03-2010, 11:58 PM
My KISS M&P15, with a touch of Magpul. And because I'm in the pitch dark rural mountainside, and there's a pair of yearling mountain lions roaming our hood, the light is also KISS.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk103/lronchef/mp15.jpg
Exactly the build I am doing with my rifle except I am going to add the MOE vertical grip when released.

To the OP, great build, in this day and age anything without 9 miles of rail is KISS.

Jeffu
03-04-2010, 12:09 AM
looks good Chris

p.s. what camera are you using?

CHS
03-04-2010, 8:41 AM
looks good Chris

p.s. what camera are you using?

Nikon D300. I used my 24/2.8 lens for that shot.

till44
03-04-2010, 9:08 AM
Nice KISS rifle. I did one similar in FDE, but used a CTR.

Heavy_Grinder
03-04-2010, 9:12 AM
Hey bdsmchs,

Nice build btw. Sorry to get off topic but I would really like to know how your 9mm AR-build is going. Or, have you done anything to it since then? And How did it shoot? Any tweaking needed to be done to the Extractor,mags, etc?

Thanks bro.

DVLDOC
03-04-2010, 9:12 AM
:cool2:

Chuntsman949
03-04-2010, 9:25 AM
niceee, I was going to do something very similar with my noveske, then the gun show rolled around and kick my *** :(

L4D
03-04-2010, 9:26 AM
6 pages. I call it another rifle.

Ironchef
03-04-2010, 9:31 AM
Unless you're planning on going RDS/HWS/ACOG, ditch that BUIS!! Get yourself a rear sight!

I'm looking for the right reflex sight. I don't dig aimpoints or eotechs..so maybe one of those doctor or millet reflex micro sights in one of those larue shroud thingys would work..or maybe I'll put one of those chinese dealios on there. I ain't too proud. But yeah, a fixed sight would be ideal without the RDS. I have to say though, I am impressed with the magpul mbus offering...not too shabby...seems like it could take some abuse before breaking.

CHS
03-04-2010, 10:17 AM
6 pages. I call it another rifle.

Good for you.

And change your settings. It's only just barely on the 2nd page.

Flogger23m
03-04-2010, 10:21 AM
IMO, it isn't KISS because it has both a collapsible stock and a flattop upper.

GTXR390
03-04-2010, 10:22 AM
sweeeet! i'd like to think that's the border of KISS, but i think nobody gonna buy it...lol.

sweet clean rifle though.

i tried to build an M16A4 clone...but it ain't a KISS clone...got the magpul UBR and DD rail w/ tango down quick detach vfg...

OK, just read technique's post...maybe it can be considered a KISS.

Chuntsman949
03-04-2010, 11:29 AM
Good for you.

And change your settings. It's only just barely on the 2nd page.

If you were going to do optics, which reflex would you have chosen, with which mount? I am looking into these and just want some input :)

supermario
03-04-2010, 11:45 AM
IMHO that is the perfect AR. Im so glad you posted this becus i wanted to build my wife one exactly like yours. Now i can show her a pic of what it would look like. Also i wanted it light and at 7lbs thats pretty good. You really dont need anything more than what you have. Also i love the LMT irons, thats what i had on mine too before i traded it :(

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu165/supermariov/IMG_0833-1.jpg

CHS
03-04-2010, 11:47 AM
IMO, it isn't KISS because it has both a collapsible stock and a flattop upper.

That makes no sense.

Why is one receiver with a handle somehow more "simple" than a receiver without a handle?

Also, what's not simple about a basic collapsible stock?

I don't think people know what "simple" and "basic" mean.

CHS
03-04-2010, 11:48 AM
If you were going to do optics, which reflex would you have chosen, with which mount? I am looking into these and just want some input :)

The Trijicon RX30-14 would be my choice.

Marsoc1
03-04-2010, 11:56 AM
the whole A2 = KISS mentality...If u watch the first magpul dynamic carbine ull hear them point out a kiss rifle. I think Magpuls stand point is Keep It Short & Simple, ur well along to the guideline to me. Nice rifle, i wanna do a similar build later in life

Chuntsman949
03-04-2010, 11:58 AM
The Trijicon RX30-14 would be my choice.

nice, why the larger over smaller? Just personal preference?

Ducman
03-04-2010, 12:01 PM
my kinda KISS :p

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q42/myusi/DSC00656.jpg

CHS
03-04-2010, 12:01 PM
nice, why the larger over smaller? Just personal preference?

Physically, the unit isn't much larger or heavier than an EOTech, but you get a larger window which allows a nicer sight picture. Also, bigger shroud = more fiber optic = better light gathering capability.

Dirtbiker
03-04-2010, 12:02 PM
KISS, no rails, no vfg, no flashlight, no optics, no piston, how much simpler can you get?

OK a fixed stock and an A1 or A2 upper would be more simple but no one would buy that.

Nice job

technique
03-04-2010, 12:03 PM
Next time you sell a DD rear take off...send me a message first... :)
I just saw that and nearly fell over in my chair.

doc1buc
03-04-2010, 12:06 PM
Kiss is cool!

Chuntsman949
03-04-2010, 12:12 PM
Physically, the unit isn't much larger or heavier than an EOTech, but you get a larger window which allows a nicer sight picture. Also, bigger shroud = more fiber optic = better light gathering capability.

makes sense, I think you have helped me make my decision muwhwhaha

CHS
03-04-2010, 12:18 PM
my kinda KISS :p

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q42/myusi/DSC00656.jpg

KISS for sure! I like it!

My only concern would be the very heavy UBR leading to an unbalanced rifle due to the lightweight front end.

CHS
03-04-2010, 12:21 PM
makes sense, I think you have helped me make my decision muwhwhaha

Also, the 6.5MOA dot is larger and easier to pick out than an aimpoint dot, though less convenient than an EOTech reticle, which I also really like.

At first, I really didn't like the amber color, but the more I played with it the more advantages I saw to it. It's bright and easy to pick out and see, but very easy on the eyes at the same time.

I think it's my new favorite reflex. And I really love my eotechs :)

Ironchef
03-04-2010, 12:26 PM
I think of this when I imagine "SIMPLE":
1) Less 'additions'
2) Less things to manipulate/toggle/focus

If the base build provides a basic shooting platform, without extras to enhance or offer added advantage to distance or night time shooting, then it's "SIMPLE."

So yes, laser, lights, glass, magnification, night vision, possibly aftermarket muzzle attachments, etc....would be considered a diversion from "SIMPLE."

My M&P with a touch of magpul would probably not be very KISS because I've added a light. But if you follow the definition of it being mission adaptable (i have necessity to possibly shoot something in the pitch dark on a big parcel of land near mountains full of wolves and cougars and other critters), then mine could be KISS.

Chuntsman949
03-04-2010, 12:28 PM
Also, the 6.5MOA dot is larger and easier to pick out than an aimpoint dot, though less convenient than an EOTech reticle, which I also really like.

At first, I really didn't like the amber color, but the more I played with it the more advantages I saw to it. It's bright and easy to pick out and see, but very easy on the eyes at the same time.

I think it's my new favorite reflex. And I really love my eotechs :)

dude its funny you say that, those were my choices reflex or eotech. Same thing happed to me I looked through both, I love the ruggedness of the reflex as well. Plus no batteries is cool.

killshot44
03-04-2010, 12:35 PM
Chris, nice package you've put together. Me likey.

KISS: No railed hanguards, no optics, no VTG, no Bipods

Retro: A2 receiver with carryhandle, A1 or A2 stock, standard or triangle handguard

And I really like your rear-sight, too. Mo bettah than a flipper.....

supermario
03-04-2010, 8:02 PM
Also, the 6.5MOA dot is larger and easier to pick out than an aimpoint dot, though less convenient than an EOTech reticle, which I also really like.

At first, I really didn't like the amber color, but the more I played with it the more advantages I saw to it. It's bright and easy to pick out and see, but very easy on the eyes at the same time.

I think it's my new favorite reflex. And I really love my eotechs :)



I understand there are no batteries, but do you know what the average life of one is? I heard from a guy in a gun store that they dont last that long?
Is this true?

hawk81
03-04-2010, 8:38 PM
It is a kissy.

Booshanky
03-04-2010, 8:51 PM
DD XV Base Rifle
Magpul MOE Handguards
Magpul MOE Grip
Magpul MOE Stock
Magpul MOE Trigger guard
Magpul enhanced rubber buttpad
Smith Vortex flash hider
Badger Tactical Latch Gen II
LMT Rear sight (TRS)


I wanted an iron-sights, KISS rifle, but with a few little upgrades and creature comforts. I think I kept to the KISS theme without it being barebones basic.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m446/bdsmchs/DDXVMOEKISS.jpg

ETA: I totally forgot, total weight: exactly 7 pounds! Suck it, rail lovers! :)


Me likey. I don't think KISS has to be the same as every other rifle out there, it's literally keeping it simple.

You've kept it simple. Great parts that are bulletproof, iron sights, and light weight.

Nice rifle!

Flogger23m
03-04-2010, 9:02 PM
That makes no sense.

Why is one receiver with a handle somehow more "simple" than a receiver without a handle?

Less options = more basic.

Also, what's not simple about a basic collapsible stock?

Its not as basic or simple as a fixed stock.

I don't think people know what "simple" and "basic" mean.

Going with some of the dictionary.com definitions for simple:

- easy to understand, deal with, use
- not complicated
- not ornate or luxurious

I'll say that a fixed stock is easier to understand, to deal with, and to use (even though you'd have to be a complete moron to not understand how to use a collapsible stock).

I'll say that a fixed stock is less complicated.

I'll also say that a fixed stock is less luxurious (only one position, might be uncomfortable).


Don't let my post make you any less happy with your rifle. :D


IMO, this is could be counted as a KISS AR:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9161/ar15a1.th.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/i/ar15a1.jpg/)

But I unKISSed it:
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8139/currentar.th.jpg (http://img196.imageshack.us/i/currentar.jpg/)

epic4444
03-04-2010, 10:32 PM
Chris, nice package you've put together. Me likey.

KISS: No railed hanguards, no optics, no VTG, no Bipods

Retro: A2 receiver with carryhandle, A1 or A2 stock, standard or triangle handguard

And I really like your rear-sight, too. Mo bettah than a flipper.....

+111111111..You hit it on the head with the KISS vs RETRO. I cant believe people dont think thats a KISS.

CHS
03-04-2010, 10:42 PM
I understand there are no batteries, but do you know what the average life of one is? I heard from a guy in a gun store that they dont last that long?
Is this true?

Forever :)

I mean, literally, forever. The tritium will run out in about 10 years and you'll lose the nighttime capability, but other than that if there's light out you're gonna get a dot. Forever.

pacrimguru
03-05-2010, 12:21 AM
Forever :)

I mean, literally, forever. The tritium will run out in about 10 years and you'll lose the nighttime capability, but other than that if there's light out you're gonna get a dot. Forever.

well, until after the sun goes supernova. :rolleyes:

KracknCorn
03-05-2010, 12:44 AM
Your system is far too complicated... this is my KISS build

http://z.about.com/d/geology/1/0/Y/S/1/rocpicgneiss.jpg

Jicko
03-05-2010, 12:48 AM
My KISs.....

http://images9.fotki.com/v448/photos/6/26966/7246467/IMG_0910-vi.jpg




NOT....

(PS. this one has lots of MAGPUL touches.....)

Marsoc1
03-05-2010, 12:52 AM
MPL... :drool5:

pacrimguru
03-05-2010, 12:58 AM
My KISs.....

http://images9.fotki.com/v448/photos/6/26966/7246467/IMG_0910-vi.jpg




NOT....

(PS. this one has lots of MAGPUL touches.....)

he jicko, how are you keeping it CA legal with the ambi-mag release installed?

johnrunner89
03-05-2010, 1:02 AM
Seeing all these magpul touches have pushed me over the edge...time to start adding some touches on my AR :p

Jicko
03-05-2010, 1:06 AM
he jicko, how are you keeping it CA legal with the ambi-mag release installed?

It is not a functional gun.... it is just for the photo op.... it has a .22LR conv kit in it.... the PMag is in there just for show... lol.... it's just an expensive RIMFIRE firearm....

pacrimguru
03-05-2010, 1:12 AM
nice, congrats on getting that lower! ... like you said, it's definitely not a kiss, haha

Jicko
03-05-2010, 1:21 AM
nice, congrats on getting that lower! ... like you said, it's definitely not a kiss, haha

OR it is.... it just simply stay in the safe.... hahaha

For the record, my usual "simple" outfit is actually this upper running 556 w/ a LMT lower, LMT SOPMOD stock, Tango Down pistol grip, Timney 1-stage trigger, Magpul BAD, Noveske end-plate....