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ca1903
03-03-2010, 12:47 PM
I'm finally attracted to the AR style rifle to "modernize" my collection beyond C&R's, and decided on the 308 caliber. With the CA law and OLL is a must, it is confusing to me to figure out how to proceed after checking with the resident expert in the gun club and some home work done over threads on AR style in 308 on Calguns and AR15 web.

My purpose: to have fun on range and may also attend some long range shooting class. Around Bay Area I can shoot to 300yds on range; have to go to Sacramento for greater distance (if there are other ranges >300yds near by, I would appreciate the info very much).

Therefore like to get an accurate AR style rifle. General thinking
1. 20" barrel
2. floating barrel for better accuracy
3. scope mount (no need for iron sight)
4. nice to have telescope type stock.
5. prefer to be 10lb or lighter
6. possibly adding bipod.
7. total cost of the rifle, <$2K. Look for the deal so my CIC @ home won't kick me out.

First question: Uppers should be AR10T or DMPS, or others?
Immediate 2nd question: which lower on the OLL gives best fitting to the upper assembly in each case? My understanding is that if the fitting is sloppy, it negatively affects the accuracy.

Thanks for any advice and suggestion

BillyGoatMachine
03-03-2010, 12:53 PM
Start with this,
http://www.762sass.com/product.php?p=349&cid=1&session=fe000de39cd27b446e4e432197b0640c

and this,
http://www.762sass.com/product.php?p=145&cid=2&session=fe000de39cd27b446e4e432197b0640c

You can get your entire AR from them for the price range you are looking at.

Rekrab
03-03-2010, 12:59 PM
With a sub-2k budget you might want to consider starting with either an AR-10 style Aeroprecision lower or a DPMS pattern Tactical Machining lower.

I'm in the same boat as you and waiting for my lower to arrive. The AR .308 is going to be more expensive to build than your average AR-15. I priced out my build at 1,500 if I go with prebuilt parts and skimp on a few features.

For me, my expense is looking a bit like this:
TM Lower: $200
DPMS LPK: $66
DPMS 24" upper assembly: 700
Magpul PRS Stock: $255
Bushnell Elite 3200: $200

That's a pretty basic, standard build it seems.

Of course, now I'm staring at Fulton Upper Receivers because of the side-cocker. Unfortunately they're weird about shipping their rifles to California so I'm not totally certain I want to support them.

I went DPMS to save money, but I'm hearing some people claim the DPMS pattern builds are more accurate. Don't ask me why, I'm still building!

ca1903
03-03-2010, 2:15 PM
Thanks. I'm pretty torn between the DMPS and AR. Yes, the $ favors DMPS; I heard good thing about it. I also heard counter argument in favor of AR. there are others like Fulton. I recall Fulton WAS in CA? But it is really cautious selling to CA now.

although AR "guarantees" 1MOA, what happens with the lower from another supplier? Isn't this a "bedding" issue also that can greatly affect the accuracy?

jmf_tracy
03-03-2010, 2:23 PM
op - i had GAP build my DPMS pattern upper with a 22" barrel with a brake and i built the lower. that thing is sweet, i just finally shot it a couple of weeks ago and zeroed the scope. i was zeroing other rifles at the 50 yard line so i pulled it out and zeroed it at 50 (i will zero @ 100 yards later) and shot i 3 shot ragged hole. man that thing shots nice and easy. i let other people shoot it and everyone was shooting 'clover leaves'. also it did not really cost that much more than a DPMS LRT-SASS, but is a lot better. GAP's AR-10 is $2450 or the upper only is around $1500-$1600 with a 3/4 moa guarantee.

Jpach
03-03-2010, 2:23 PM
No bedding is needed for the AR platform.

I say go with what Rekrab is doing by going with the DPMS platform. Theres nothing wrong with the Armalite type but the cool thing with the DPMS patterned guns is that they accept SR-25 magazines which means they take the new .308 Pmags. Reliable and cheap mags. I have a DPMS upper and its pretty accurate. 1.100" 5 shot group at 200 yards.

Plus, the Tactical Machining lower seems to be the MOST inexpensive .308 AR lower in existance IIRC. Go with the DPMS platform. It only makes sense.

Rekrab
03-03-2010, 2:37 PM
I recall Fulton WAS in CA? But it is really cautious selling to CA now.


Despite being Off-List, Fulton won't sell their lowers to CA unless your FFL has an Assault Weapons permit. That kind of irks me.

Still, I'm torn about buying their upper receiver. They use lower quality metal than some of the other companies out there, but side-charging just seems sooooo sexy.

I'm supposed to get my Lower delivered on the 8th, so after DROS it will be mine. I'll let you know what I think of the TM lower after I get it if you're still looking.

IsaacGlass
03-03-2010, 2:40 PM
I'm finally attracted to the AR style rifle to "modernize" my collection beyond C&R's, and decided on the 308 caliber. With the CA law and OLL is a must, it is confusing to me to figure out how to proceed after checking with the resident expert in the gun club and some home work done over threads on AR style in 308 on Calguns and AR15 web.

My purpose: to have fun on range and may also attend some long range shooting class. Around Bay Area I can shoot to 300yds on range; have to go to Sacramento for greater distance (if there are other ranges >300yds near by, I would appreciate the info very much).

Therefore like to get an accurate AR style rifle. General thinking
1. 20" barrel
2. floating barrel for better accuracy
3. scope mount (no need for iron sight)
4. nice to have telescope type stock.
5. prefer to be 10lb or lighter
6. possibly adding bipod.
7. total cost of the rifle, <$2K. Look for the deal so my CIC @ home won't kick me out.

First question: Uppers should be AR10T or DMPS, or others?
Immediate 2nd question: which lower on the OLL gives best fitting to the upper assembly in each case? My understanding is that if the fitting is sloppy, it negatively affects the accuracy.

Thanks for any advice and suggestion

Too bad you were 5 days too late, otherwise this would have been an awesome deal for you.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=271451

ca1903
03-03-2010, 2:59 PM
IssacGlass: you are right. Well, timing is every thing. I'm still in the homework phase as you can tell.

Rekrab: I'll be as anxiously waiting for your result as you yourself!:)

Jpach: I noticed you've advised many calgunners. thanks. Yes, I know the AR style does not have the "bedding" as the old C&R; I do wonder if a different lower is used on the same upper, would the accuracy be affected? Is DPMS upper assembly with floating barrel? Is it a critical factor in accuracy?

PistolPete75
03-03-2010, 3:19 PM
If you want tight fitting, go with Iron Ridge Arms. They are built with extreme tight tolerances.

If your on a semi-budget, go with the IRA lower and buy a DPMS SASS upper. For 2k: IRA lower, dpms lpk, A2 stock, and DPMS SASS upper.

ca1903
03-03-2010, 4:06 PM
Hi Pete: can you teach me the advantage SASS upper has over, say the 20" upper assembly in LR308C?

Hi Rekrab: are you choosing the 24" bull barrel in 308 Winchester?

Asking another dumb question: Since I intend to use scope, should I keep the iron sight when ordering, or I need to order differently? Is the upper ready to take on the scope ring?

Rekrab
03-03-2010, 4:13 PM
Either bull or fluted, yes.

Depending on which upper you order you should be able to pull the iron sights off. I like iron sights, I shoot irons on my Saiga and MN but I think I'd just stick to glass on my .308. There's some affordable quality options available for not too much money. Iron sights are fairly cheap, if I ever want to pick them up further down the road I certainly can.

If I ever decided to build a carbine length upper I'd probably get irons.

ca1903
03-03-2010, 4:31 PM
I like iron sight too. In fact the first live shooting in my life was M16 with iron sight in early 70s! The C&R I collected certainly had all the iron sights. But as my eyes age (and I had an eye surgery a month ago on my aiming eye), I have to seriously consider the scope, especially for longer distance as I intend here.

Are these uppers ready to take on the scope ring after the iron sights are pulled off?

Rekrab
03-03-2010, 4:46 PM
If you picked up something like this you'd be good to go for a scope out of the box. Just need mounting rings and the scope.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=933998

ca1903
03-03-2010, 5:00 PM
many thanks

Super Spy
03-03-2010, 5:26 PM
I'm planning on a 308 build some time this year, I already have a pair of Iron Ridge Lowers, and a DPMS LPK, I'll probably go with a Magpul PRS unless I cheap out and go A-2, as far as uppers go I'm probably going to go with AR-15 performances new upper, it's relatively lightweight as it's designed for guys like me that intend to use their gun for hunting and don't want to pack extra weight. I will probably go with a JP trigger. I'm undecided on optics, don't want to spend a mint, don't want more weight than required, do want something decent in low light for early morning heavily wooded type scenarios.

Rekrab
03-03-2010, 5:29 PM
Should mention, www.rguns.net has cheaper complete uppers if you like that DPMS upper.

ca1903
03-04-2010, 9:31 AM
Thanks.

thought of one more question: is there any thing special I should do regarding the DPMS LPK regarding the magazine release button? I recall in CA it needs to be made into a "magazine lock".

Rekrab
03-04-2010, 10:37 AM
Yes, you'll want to buy a Bullet Button, Raddlock or Prince 50 to make your magazine "fixed." Check out the CalGuns Wiki or find one of the OLL friendly shops in your area to find out more.

Glock21sfsd
03-04-2010, 11:09 AM
I saw a JD Machine .308 Lower in a store in San Diego will that work with the Armalite upper?

Rekrab
03-04-2010, 11:23 AM
JD is DPMS I believe.

frigginchi
03-04-2010, 11:28 AM
remington R-25
http://www.gunsandammo.com/content/remington-r25

http://www.ddsranch.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=277_290_349&products_id=625&zenid=3r7t8lf7vi7sve791ta716gmh6

http://www.remington.com/~/media/Images/Firearms/Centerfire/Model-R25/Model-R-25-Rifle/r-25-prod.ashx?w=570&bc=ffffff

ca1903
03-05-2010, 9:30 AM
Rekrab, thanks. dumb me, I was staring at the OLL assembly button on this web menu and not remembering I read through that! Must be a sign of aging!:sleeping: