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Barkoff
03-02-2010, 8:51 PM
Just looking through the definition of "assault weapon" and wondering why the M1A isn't listed? Not complaing of course, just wondering.

thanks


The term assault weapon means the following designated semiautomatic firearms
as defined by Penal Code section 12276:
(a) All of the following specified rifles:

(1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models identified as follows:
(A) Made in China AK, AKM, AKS, AK47, AK47S, 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(B) Norinco 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(C) Poly Technologies AKS and AK47.
(D) MAADI AK47 and ARM.
(2) UZI and Galil.
(3) Beretta AR-70.
(4) CETME Sporter.
(5) Colt AR-15 series.
(6) Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR110C.
(7) Fabrique Nationale FAL, LAR, FNC, 308 Match, and Sporter.
(8) MAS 223.
(9) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, and HK-PSG-1.
(10) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc, sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M11.
(11) SKS with detachable magazine.
(12) SIG AMT, PE-57, SG 550, and SG 551.
(13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48.
(14) Sterling MK-6.
(15) Steyer AUG.
(16) Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78S.
(17) Armalite AR-180.
(18) Bushmaster Assault Rifle.
(19) Calico M-900.
(20) J&R ENG M-68.
(21) Weaver Arms Nighthawk.
(b) All of the following specified pistols:
(1) UZI.
(2) Encom MP-9 and MP-45.
(3) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc, sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M-11.
(C) Advance Armament Inc, M-11.
(D) Military Armament Corp. Ingram 11.
(4) Intratec TEC-9.
(5) Sites Spectre.
(6) Sterling MK-7.
(7) Calico M-950.
(8) Bushmaster Pistol.
(c) All of the following specified shotguns:
(1) Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12.

SWEETDUDE
03-02-2010, 8:56 PM
I believe its because it has a rifle stock as oppose to a "gun grip". If I'm wrong, please correct me as I am curious as well. Holla front.

Rob454
03-02-2010, 8:57 PM
Cause it looks like your grandpas M1 or a little weird hunting rifle and not like the tacti-cool evil black rifles with banana clips:eek::D I guess the non pistol grip wood stock throws peopel off and they dont consider it evil

Pugster
03-02-2010, 9:23 PM
1) Any gun that has "evil" features doesn't have to be necessarily listed in that Assault Weapons Appendix (i.e. I could have a Sig 556 pistol without a bullet button and it would be an unlisted assault weapon).

2) Not sure why they wouldn't specifically call out the Springfield M1A since the listed Springfield BM59 is pretty much a M1A.

Sheldon
03-02-2010, 9:42 PM
Mainly because they had/have a traditional wooden stock without a pistol grip. Same goes with the Ruger Mini 14. They are fine as long as you don't add another evil feature to them, since the removeable magazine is present. That's why the California compliant ones currently being sold have a muzzle break and not a flash suppressor. Also aftermarket stock kits for Ca. won't have a pistol grip in them as in the Sage stock kit.

CHS
03-02-2010, 11:26 PM
Wood stock.

Sheldon
03-02-2010, 11:34 PM
The BM59 has a wooden stock too, but it also has a pistol grip and is banned as such. It's the lack of a pistol grip, not the wood that kept the M1A, M1 carbine, and Mini-14 off the "list". I'm sure they wanted them on the list too, but it started to get too difficult to distinguish between hunting rifles and dreaded assault rifles at that point, so they drew the line at the pistol grip and those models skated under the wire, but we still have the assault weapons "features count" to deal with and since those models have a detatchable mag they're limited pretty much like the compliant rifle types being built up by a lot of folks. In a sense they were banned, at least in the configuration they used to be sold in....with a flash suppressor.

NavDoc
03-03-2010, 5:21 AM
I was just wondering why this is in the handguns section? :D

HK Dave
03-03-2010, 9:02 AM
Because it doesn't look "SCARY"

This post should be moved to the centerfire forum.

CrazyJeep
03-03-2010, 9:12 AM
I believe the BM-59's "Tri-Comp" was considered a flash hider which would put it in the AW category if it had all the features that deemed it an AW.

Marlin Hunter
03-03-2010, 9:23 AM
The original AW list also had the HK SL6 (223) and SL7 (308) listed, along with the HK 630 (223), 770 (308), 940 (30-06). I had an HK770 and was rather peeved when it appeared on the list. I didn't register it because to me it wasn't an assault weapon. They later remove it from the list, and I sold it.

Here is an SL type HK. I want an SL7

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/SL7Seite-Trompeter.jpg/800px-SL7Seite-Trompeter.jpg

here is the 630/770/930 type. You can't see it, but there is a flash suppressor cut into the barrel. That is what made it an assault weapon. They came with a 3 round (WOW! major fire power.) detachable mag. Mine had a scope mount. The gun was a P.O.S. and a female dog to clean.

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/Heckler_Koch/HK770.jpg

the 630/770/930. nice looking guns. the flash hiders are easier to see.

http://www.hkpro.com/image/hk630770940horiz.jpg

Marlin Hunter
03-03-2010, 9:31 AM
Just looking through the definition of "assault weapon" and wondering why the M1A isn't listed? Not complaing of course, just wondering.

thanks





It was mainly because the NRA fought hard, not to have it put on the list because it was used in competition shooting. That is also why the Anshutz (sp?) target pistols are not considered assault pistols even though they match the generic term for "assault pistol." The M1A1's or M-14's had to have the flash suppressor and bayonet lug removed to keep it legal. I had a Springfield M1A1 Nation Match with a bayonet lug and flash hider before the ban went into effect. All I did to keep it legal was remove the flash hider/bayonet lug/front sight assembly and installed another front sight that did not have a flash hider or bayonet lug. My M1A1 was another P.O.S. which I soon sold.

M1A Rifleman
03-03-2010, 9:39 AM
The M1A1's or M-14's had to have the flash suppressor and bayonet lug removed to keep it legal. hider or bayonet lug. .


Bayo lugs were never an AW issue in California only the FH. You could have an solid fake FH with a bayo lug and it would not be an AW.

The M1A's, and (Mini-14's with folders or with the AC556 FH) were catagorized as AW's in the later bans and required registration, but you are correct in that the M1A was initially not listed as an AW - even thou the BM59 looks like the offspring between and M1A and an M1 garand. I never have understood or heard a good reason for this. There were many weapons that did not make the initial list. My take is that back then, the DOJ was even more incompetent, and they were simply not all that familier with all the different weapons and varieties out there. Also, prior to about 1989, I never even saw an M1A except on a range, too few of them around except for the match guys.

CooldadE
03-03-2010, 9:52 AM
I have a pre ban M1-A bought way back. I have a E2 stock for it / birch wood with pistolgrip bought way back also. is it illegal to use the E2 stock on my pre ban rifle ?

M1A Rifleman
03-03-2010, 9:57 AM
I have a pre ban M1-A bought way back. I have a E2 stock for it / birch wood with pistolgrip bought way back also. is it illegal to use the E2 stock on my pre ban rifle ?

By pre-ban, I assume you mean it has the original FH, and because of this, it would have needed to be registered with the later bans when cosmetic features were listed. Assuming you registered it due to the original FH, you can have any stock you wish.

Omega13device
03-03-2010, 2:01 PM
I have a pre ban M1-A bought way back. I have a E2 stock for it / birch wood with pistolgrip bought way back also. is it illegal to use the E2 stock on my pre ban rifle ?

The only way you can use an E2 stock on an M1A is if it's a registered assault weapon, or you set it up as a fixed-magazine rifle. Same goes for an M1A with a flash suppressor, VFG, etc.

Sniper3142
03-03-2010, 2:26 PM
The M1A1's or M-14's had to have the flash suppressor and bayonet lug removed to keep it legal. I had a Springfield M1A1 Nation Match with a bayonet lug and flash hider before the ban went into effect. All I did to keep it legal was remove the flash hider/bayonet lug/front sight assembly and installed another front sight that did not have a flash hider or bayonet lug. My M1A1 was another P.O.S. which I soon sold.

Not totally true (as others have pointed out).

A person could register their M1A as an AW instead of mutilating it to comply with that stupid law.

vf111
03-03-2010, 3:17 PM
The original Roberti-Roos ban from 1989 did include the Springfield Armory M1A and Springfield Armory BM59 originally. After NRA raised a huge fuss (as noted by a previous poster) and to get enough votes to pass, the M1A was dropped from RR but the BM59 stayed as no one was willing to go to bat for it. FYI, the BM59 is really a modified Garand and only superficially resembles an M14. It would be correct to say the BM59 and the M14 are siblings, both sired by the Garand. You can own a similar rifle to the BM59 here in Cali by picking up a Beretta BM62 or 69 (imported by Berben & Benet); just make sure it sits in a conventional BM stock and it doesn't have the tricompensator (combination flash-hider, compensator & grenade launcher) assuming you're dropping mags. Luckily, the BM62 comes standard with a muzzle cap which just caps off the end of the barrel to protect the crown and serves no compensating or flash-hiding function. The BM59 stock w/ the pistol grip is either the Paratrooper / Alpini stock or the MKIV / Nigerian. Both are specialty stocks designed for Paratroopers/ Alpine troops and SAW gunners respectively. The Para stock can be found fairly easily but the MKIV is pretty rare. Both require your rifle be set up w/ a fixed 10 round mag.

Fast forward to 2000 and SB23 which is our current Cali AW ban. The M1A was again not listed by name - not sure why but probably because it had a wood stock and didn't look "evil". SB23 also went after mostly AR's & AK's. Therefore only way an M1A / M14 is illegal in Cali is by features and you can avoid that by making sure it has a compensator in place of the flash-hider and it sits in the conventional wood stock. Springfield's "CA" series M1A's are set up exactly this way. You can use the SAGE stocks and their ilk w/ collapsible stocks and pistol grips if you go the fixed magazine route - but if you're like me and have a ton of M14 mags from before 2000 why bother?