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View Full Version : What componets will give me the most accurate load for .223?


Bagelthief
03-02-2010, 5:44 PM
Of course I know my mileage will vary because we don't have the same gun, press, dies, climate, and most importantly mind and body. However, just to point me in the right direction, in your experience what has been your most accurate loads for the .223 (read: gives you the smallest groups)?

I will be using Lapua brass (unless someone has a better suggestion?) because that's what I've heard is "the best."

The rest of the components i'm a little less informed about...ESPECIALLY powder wise!! There are so many different types of powder from numerous different manufacturers, and it makes my head spin.

So what primers, powder and bullets do you guys use for those UBER accurate loads?

Thanks!!

Jonathan Doe
03-02-2010, 6:09 PM
My recipe may not work for your rifle. You will have to experiment with various components.

I did a lot of experiments with 308 Win. About 5 - 6 powder, 3 - 4 primers, 5 - 6 different bullets, 5- 6 different brass, powder charge, seating depth. After 1 1/2 years, I got what I like. Spent most Saturdays at the range and my wife was not very happy.

You can check reloading manuals and start near their recommended accuracy load.

6079Winston
03-02-2010, 6:28 PM
Read this article, it should give something useful whether you are interested in benchrest, service rifle or anything in between.

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

Bagelthief
03-02-2010, 6:31 PM
Perhaps it will work GREAT with my rifle! Tell me your recipe and I will let you know...lol.

Synergy
03-02-2010, 6:39 PM
OP - You have quite the vague question.

Are you shooting:
Benchrest?
Bolt Action?
AR Variants?
AR Pistol?

What ranges are you aiming for?
What barrel twist and grain bullet are you shooting?

As for Lapua, they make good benchrest brass. For the most average .223/.308 shooter you cant go wrong with Lake City brass. Its the mil surp or XM 193/855 brass. Plus it costs a lot less than Lapua.

Bagelthief
03-02-2010, 6:55 PM
Sorry. I know I was kinda vague, and it was on purpose. I just want to hear what is giving you guys the smallest groups with your particular set up, and I can pick and choose as I see fit.

But if it would aid anyone, then I will be doing quite a bit of benchrest, with an AR. The barrel is from WOA, and is a 1 in 7 twist. Ranges will be as far as I can accurately reach (600 yards or so) to 100 yards.

BTW, 6079, that article is awesome. THANKS!

Synergy
03-02-2010, 7:07 PM
Sorry. I know I was kinda vague, and it was on purpose. I just want to hear what is giving you guys the smallest groups with your particular set up, and I can pick and choose as I see fit.

So what your saying is you dont know how to reload and by asking for info not given by you based on your type of rifle, twist and bullet grain. You expect to build a load and shoot sub MOA instantly. Little grasshopper you have lots to learn!

I guessed you missed reading a loading manual and reading that you start small and build up from there based on your own rifle and specs.

6079Winston
03-02-2010, 7:20 PM
You could do a lot worse than copying the highpower crowd, saving time while avoiding re-inventing the wheel. The various 80 grain bullets single loaded work better than anything loaded to magazine length at longer ranges while the lighter bullets are more convenient and adequate for shorter range shooting. A few more useful links:

http://www.njhighpower.com/cart_tech.htm
http://www.whiteoakprecision.com/info-reloading.htm

five.five-six
03-02-2010, 7:25 PM
What componets will give me the most accurate load for .223?

I reccomend these 3 components:

a)pracitce
b)practice
c)practice








varget and 168 SMKs

bfoosh006
03-02-2010, 7:35 PM
http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=206...

Look for Sierra bullets, Varget or RL15 powder... and as for Lapua brass, save that for a good bolt action. You'll probably not even find any Lapua on that spread sheet.

Bug Splat
03-02-2010, 7:36 PM
Ok I'll give my best 223 100 yard groups with recipes.

Savage 12, 26" 1-9 barrel benchrest built competition rig. 0.18" 5 shot group
LC brass full grown, CCI primers, H335, Hornady 40gr V-max seated at lands.

CMMG built 1-9 16" Bull barrel AR. 0.24" 5 shot group
LC brass trimmed, CCI primers, H335, Hornady 40gr V-max seated to spec.


H335 and 40gr v-max's have been just a complete winners for me. Not suited for longer ranges but great for out to 300 yards.

bfoosh006
03-02-2010, 7:49 PM
http://www.zediker.com/books/books.html...and order some of these books , I reread them frequently. And its one of the first books I check for info.

Bagelthief
03-02-2010, 7:59 PM
So what your saying is you dont know how to reload and by asking for info not given by you based on your type of rifle, twist and bullet grain. You expect to build a load and shoot sub MOA instantly. Little grasshopper you have lots to learn!

I guessed you missed reading a loading manual and reading that you start small and build up from there based on your own rifle and specs.

Hmm...Please show me where I said "Who here gets the smallest groups so I can go buy a 3000 count bag of those same bullets, 50 pounds of that same powder, and 10,000 of those same exact primers and be set getting the SAME exact groupings as you, maybe better!!!"

Nope. Perhaps your thinking of a different bagelthief?

What im trying to do here is a little data mining. "ohh i see there's a lot of people who use this same bullet and are getting pretty good groups out of a similar barrel profile...I think ill order a box of 100, and try them out with these 3 different powders that people were most commonly using...Hey it also looks like this primer was the most popular, I think ill order 1000 of those, and maybe 1000 of the second most popular and see which works best. This bullet was also pretty common, I'm going to order 100 of those too." etc.

This way it narrows down my choices, instead of having to order 20 different bullet types, and 10 different powders, and 6 different primers; then having to spend many many moons testing out all the combination's.

But thanks anyways for insulting me and ****ing all over my thread...Have a nice night. :)


To the rest of you very kind people...thanks for lending a hand, you are certainly pointing me in the right direction and it is much appreciated!

If anyone else wants to chime in on their loads, i'm sure I wouldnt be the only one to benefit!!

Synergy
03-02-2010, 8:00 PM
What componets will give me the most accurate load for .223?

I reccomend these 3 components:

a)pracitce
b)practice
c)practice
varget and 168 SMKs

Thats one big .223 your shootin there Tex!

Synergy
03-02-2010, 8:06 PM
Hmm...Please show me where I said "Who here gets the smallest groups so I can go buy a 3000 count bag of those same bullets, 50 pounds of that same powder, and 10,000 of those same exact primers and be set getting the SAME exact groupings as you, maybe better!!!"

Nope. Perhaps your thinking of a different bagelthief?

What im trying to do here is a little data mining. "ohh i see there's a lot of people who use this same bullet and are getting pretty good groups out of a similar barrel profile...I think ill order a box of 100, and try them out with these 3 different powders that people were most commonly using...Hey it also looks like this primer was the most popular, I think ill order 1000 of those, and maybe 1000 of the second most popular and see which works best. This bullet was also pretty common, I'm going to order 100 of those too." etc.

This way it narrows down my choices, instead of having to order 20 different bullet types, and 10 different powders, and 6 different primers; then having to spend many many moons testing out all the combination's.

But thanks anyways for insulting me and ****ing all over my thread...Have a nice night. :)


To the rest of you very kind people...thanks for lending a hand, you are certainly pointing me in the right direction and it is much appreciated!

If anyone else wants to chime in on their loads, i'm sure I wouldnt be the only one to benefit!!

Simmer down cowboy!

You stated you were being "vague" for a reason of data mining. If you dont list your gun type, barrel twist and goals for the round. You are asking for trouble by asking a vague question on the internet. Especially when it comes to reloading. If you you want to gamble like that then go ahead. I wish you the best in your reloading endeavor. Just stay a few lanes away from me. :D

bfoosh006
03-02-2010, 8:06 PM
http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=42...

Tons of daily input there... careful it completely addictive.

Bagelthief
03-02-2010, 9:50 PM
http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=206...

Look for Sierra bullets, Varget or RL15 powder... and as for Lapua brass, save that for a good bolt action. You'll probably not even find any Lapua on that spread sheet.

well, I did find Lapua brass on the sheet...but it was for 6.5 Grendel! LOL!

So why is it not advisable to use Lapua brass for .223 in an AR? I thought quality of brass had a major impact in accuracy?

five.five-six
03-02-2010, 10:18 PM
Thats one big .223 your shootin there Tex!

dang, tried to slip 99 grains in there on you :p meant 69's I am having fun with 168' A-Max with .308

bfoosh006
03-02-2010, 10:49 PM
well, I did find Lapua brass on the sheet...but it was for 6.5 Grendel! LOL!

So why is it not advisable to use Lapua brass for .223 in an AR? I thought quality of brass had a major impact in accuracy?

Better, cheaper brass is available...http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8996
...Lapua makes great expensive brass, but in your AR...you'd probably never notice.
I sure haven't.
From what I've seen the bullet its self will make the most difference( in an ar), followed by powder, primer, and then brass.

More good stuff...http://radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm...Please Note, the 80gr loads are single load only/to long for magazine use. 77gr is the longest you can load into a magazine.

bfoosh006
03-02-2010, 10:54 PM
Read this article, it should give something useful whether you are interested in benchrest, service rifle or anything in between.

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html


This link also talks about expensive v. LC brass, about a fifth of the way down at...".223 Remington Components--Brass,Powder,Primers"

Lapua isn't "needed" for the AR, I would truly save the money get the LC brass, Sierra bullets 69/77, some varget, Rem 7 1/2, and go to town. You'll get more practice for the same amount of money.

Free float the barrel, get a great trigger..http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Geissele-AR15-Service-Rifle-Two-Stage-Trigger-p/geissele%20hs%20servicetrigger.htm..and have a "blast"

mif_slim
03-03-2010, 4:02 AM
For 600 yards I get good results with 75grhp hornady pushed by 24.1gr rl15 with CCI primers. Won a few matches with it. But might not work with your gun.

I been wanting to try 80gr as I hear lots of praises from guy who uses them. I will let you k ow how it goes when I get some. :)

anothergunnut
03-03-2010, 5:45 AM
I am just getting into reloading 223. When I switched from Hornady 55 gr FMJ to Hornady 68 gr BTHP, the difference was amazing. I did notice that the right powder charge also made a significant difference. I tried 5 or 6 different loads of Varget starting with published minimums. I found that the lower powder charges were most accurate in my rifle. I am using LC brass, Wolf primer, and shooting out of a 20" HBAR AR with a 1/9 twist. I load to magazine length. I also have some Sierra MK in 69 and, iirc, 77 gr which I still need to try. I've learned that it takes a lot of time to develop a load.

ar15barrels
03-03-2010, 9:15 AM
I will be doing quite a bit of benchrest, with an AR. The barrel is from WOA, and is a 1 in 7 twist.
Ranges will be as far as I can accurately reach (600 yards or so) to 100 yards.

Wrong tool for the job, at least the shortrange job...

Your best 100yd accuracy is going to be with little 50-52gr bullets from a 1:14" twist barrel.
That fast twist barrel will cause problems for the best shortrange bullets.
That 1:7 twist you have is best suited to 77gr and 80gr bullets so stay with Sierra, Berger or small custom bullet makers.
These will be good bullets for 300-600yds.

Bug Splat
03-03-2010, 12:15 PM
Wrong tool for the job, at least the shortrange job...

Your best 100yd accuracy is going to be with little 50-52gr bullets from a 1:14" twist barrel.
That fast twist barrel will cause problems for the best shortrange bullets.
That 1:7 twist you have is best suited to 77gr and 80gr bullets so stay with Sierra, Berger or small custom bullet makers.
These will be good bullets for 300-600yds.

+100

For benchrest shooting go light and fast. the larger heavier bullets will not group as well until you get out to 300 yards. The smaller bullets stabilized much faster and closer ranges. I also shot 69gr SMK bullet pushed by Varget for some nice results but they were never good enough for benchrest competition. they groups around 1/2" at 100 yards which is no where even close to placing in most matches. Even 1/4" will never get you walking away with prize money (in our club 1st place got your back you entry fee).

cfm117
03-04-2010, 4:05 PM
For 600 yards I get good results with 75grhp hornady pushed by 24.1gr rl15 with CCI primers. Won a few matches with it. But might not work with your gun.

I been wanting to try 80gr as I hear lots of praises from guy who uses them. I will let you k ow how it goes when I get some. :)


When it absolutely has to go to into the 10 or x ring @ 600, Hornady 80gr A-Max pushed by 24.0 grains of Varget loaded .005 off the lands. DPMS 1-8 Stainless.

Bagelthief
03-04-2010, 6:04 PM
Better, cheaper brass is available...http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8996
...Lapua makes great expensive brass, but in your AR...you'd probably never notice.
I sure haven't.
From what I've seen the bullet its self will make the most difference( in an ar), followed by powder, primer, and then brass.

More good stuff...http://radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm...Please Note, the 80gr loads are single load only/to long for magazine use. 77gr is the longest you can load into a magazine.

Makes sense...I guess LC brass it will be...And about the Geissel trigger, thats been the plan alllll along lol. Wouldnt have anything worse touch my rifle...

Bagelthief
03-04-2010, 6:07 PM
For 600 yards I get good results with 75grhp hornady pushed by 24.1gr rl15 with CCI primers. Won a few matches with it. But might not work with your gun.

I been wanting to try 80gr as I hear lots of praises from guy who uses them. I will let you k ow how it goes when I get some. :)

Yea man, let us know how well they fly! According to Bfoosh, 79 grains is the highest weight you can load to mag length...I would die if I had to reduce my AR to a mere single shot...HAHA!

Bagelthief
03-04-2010, 6:10 PM
I am just getting into reloading 223. When I switched from Hornady 55 gr FMJ to Hornady 68 gr BTHP, the difference was amazing. I did notice that the right powder charge also made a significant difference. I tried 5 or 6 different loads of Varget starting with published minimums. I found that the lower powder charges were most accurate in my rifle. I am using LC brass, Wolf primer, and shooting out of a 20" HBAR AR with a 1/9 twist. I load to magazine length. I also have some Sierra MK in 69 and, iirc, 77 gr which I still need to try. I've learned that it takes a lot of time to develop a load.

Iv heard lots of good things about Varget, except that it was difficult to meter because its stick...Have you tried RL15? People seem to like that powder better, especially for the heavy bullets...

1lostinspace
03-04-2010, 6:12 PM
the ones your rifle likes best

Bagelthief
03-04-2010, 6:16 PM
Wrong tool for the job, at least the shortrange job...

Your best 100yd accuracy is going to be with little 50-52gr bullets from a 1:14" twist barrel.
That fast twist barrel will cause problems for the best shortrange bullets.
That 1:7 twist you have is best suited to 77gr and 80gr bullets so stay with Sierra, Berger or small custom bullet makers.
These will be good bullets for 300-600yds.

Who died and made you expert on the subject of what barrel profiles are best for a particular job? You probably havent even ever held an AR barrel!

:D:p:D:p:D

LOL just kidding man...Im mostly interested in long range shooting anyways. But thanks for the tip. I had no idea the heavier bullets were limited in how near they could consistently group....

Bagelthief
03-04-2010, 6:17 PM
+100

For benchrest shooting go light and fast. the larger heavier bullets will not group as well until you get out to 300 yards. The smaller bullets stabilized much faster and closer ranges. I also shot 69gr SMK bullet pushed by Varget for some nice results but they were never good enough for benchrest competition. they groups around 1/2" at 100 yards which is no where even close to placing in most matches. Even 1/4" will never get you walking away with prize money (in our club 1st place got your back you entry fee).

WOW Bug! Thats pretty messed up! That club must rake in tons of cash if the first place price is to break even!!! LOL.

Bagelthief
03-04-2010, 6:18 PM
When it absolutely has to go to into the 10 or x ring @ 600, Hornady 80gr A-Max pushed by 24.0 grains of Varget loaded .005 off the lands. DPMS 1-8 Stainless.

How do you figure out how far your bullet is seated off the lands?

cfm117
03-04-2010, 9:46 PM
How do you figure out how far your bullet is seated off the lands?

You use this rod

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=570611


http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=290405

with this caliber specific case screwed on the end, with your specific bullet mounted on top. It measures the depth of your chamber with that specific bullet. Not really needed for magazine length loads. A max's are too long to be magazine length.