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View Full Version : Sterling 9mm carbine!


Rooftop Voter
03-02-2010, 11:34 AM
Here are pics of my "featureless" Sterling 9mm carbine!!! :43::cool2::D
Padlock is to prevent the stock from folding underneath the weapon, the kydex "wrap" neuters the pistol grip inherent evilness:rolleyes:, and the muzzle brake was just an extra add on when I was still contemplating getting a bullet button made by someone but it didnt come to fruition...
Let me know what you think!

Rooftop Voter
03-02-2010, 11:42 AM
Here is the $$$ breakdown -
$60 for the 10-round sterling mag (ouch!), a $60 kydex PG wrap from Solar Tactical (I just love this thing - so easily taken off for trips to free states), and a padlock courtesy of the US Army! The Muzzle brake came from Wiselite Arms and they charged $101 to mount it on the barrel.
Now I just wish I could jump through all the hoops for a MK7 9mm sterling pistol clone... :confused: It'll be a LOT harder to get!

HendersonDefense
03-02-2010, 11:43 AM
NICE!!!

I'm glad you could figure it out because we couldn't

thanks,
Ron

Rooftop Voter
03-02-2010, 11:45 AM
lol

djleisure
03-02-2010, 12:11 PM
That's nice! And pretty funny that you have a literal lock through your folding stock. Can't you put some kind of bolt through there? It doesn't need to be permanent.... either way, very creative ways to get around our wacky laws!

ETA: I use these when I'm climbing - they are cheap and you can find them at any hardware store. It's called a "Master Lock" chain link (http://www.ronshomeandhardware.com/2PK-5-16-Chain-Link-p/724114.htm?click=1014) - You might even be able to find a black one... just a thought!
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vio3V1xkL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

Rooftop Voter
03-02-2010, 12:37 PM
yep - I just put something in there until I can find a better stock "lock"...ha
It definetly makes a strong statement - like my sterling is yearning to BE SET FREE!!! lmao

Group B
03-02-2010, 12:37 PM
is that krinkle coat on the receiver of the sterling?

looks like it works, great job, congrats!

bigthaiboy
03-02-2010, 12:43 PM
Are you 100% sure that's a muzzle brake? Looks like a standard M60 flash hider to me.

Rooftop Voter
03-02-2010, 12:51 PM
Group B - crinkle paint finish just like the originals!
bigthaiboy - This is how WLA has it advertised = check it out! Souds like it will probably ADD muzzle flash when fired.
http://www.wlawarehouse.com/store_front/miscellaneous/muzzle_brakes/m60_style_muzzle_brake

bigthaiboy
03-02-2010, 1:10 PM
Group B - crinkle paint finish just like the originals!
bigthaiboy - This is how WLA has it advertised = check it out! Souds like it will probably ADD muzzle flash when fired.
http://www.wlawarehouse.com/store_front/miscellaneous/muzzle_brakes/m60_style_muzzle_brake

I realize WiseLite call it a muzzle brake, but I see no difference from the M60 version. The standard M60 has a flash hider. The difference between a muzzle brake and a flash hider is in the characteristics of it's design, not what someone wishes to call it. They both serve a different function by the way they control the movement and dissipation of gases from the muzzle. These functions are inherent in the design of the muzzle attachment. The long horizontal side cuts and large exit hole on the end of the muzzle attachment is typical of a "bird-cage" flash hider design.

I personally think you are playing with fire putting that on a featureless build, as I would not want to waste my money in court trying to prove that what you have is a muzzle brake. Just my $0.02

Gio
03-02-2010, 1:29 PM
Nice! :drool5:

-Gio

Swift Justice
03-02-2010, 1:58 PM
I officially have Sterling envy...

Rooftop Voter
03-02-2010, 2:19 PM
so does anyone else think I am inviting trouble with my choice of muzzle accessory?
I thought a real M-60 flash hider has only 3 vents... ?
Guess I could always get a fake can mounted on the threads instead.

Wildhawk66
03-02-2010, 2:56 PM
To consider whether the muzzle device is a flash hider or brake/comp. it would be really helpful if you could provide a front on picture showing the tip of the muzzle.

MasterYong
03-02-2010, 3:04 PM
On the manufacturer's website it looks like the brake tapers at the muzzle end i.e. it looks like it's about the width of the bullet. That'd be a MB if the above statement is true.

Also, I've read probably 100 threads on CG about Muzzle Brake vs Flash Hider and the general legal consensus is that if it's advertised as a Brake its a Brake, since CADOJ has no actual written definition. IANAL... but that seems to be the accepted rule amongst the folks in the know on this site.

grammaton76
03-02-2010, 3:09 PM
Also, I've read probably 100 threads on CG about Muzzle Brake vs Flash Hider and the general legal consensus is that if it's advertised as a Brake its a Brake, since CADOJ has no actual written definition. IANAL... but that seems to be the accepted rule amongst the folks in the know on this site.

Pretty much spot-on. However, there is complication here because its design is nearly identical to another device which is considered a flash hider.

To the OP: If I were you, if you're going to keep that on there, I'd make abso-frackin-lutely sure that you've saved a printout of the page you ordered it from, plus the receipt, and that they all say muzzle brake.

I personally would not mess with that device on a featureless build, but if you're going to do so, then by all means make a hardcopy of everything you have that asserts it was marketed and sold and installed as a muzzle brake.

Baron
03-02-2010, 3:11 PM
if the hole on the end is larger then the hole on the barrel, it's a flash hider... At least that's my understanding

Most brakes or compensators don't have holes on the bottom either... this forces gasses out of the top to help "Compensate" muzzle climp wen rapid firing

I think the key feature though to determine in the exit hole
Big hole = Hider (Evil)
Little hole = Brake (Featurless)

But still its a nice looking sterling, just be careful with the muzzle attachment

MasterYong
03-02-2010, 3:44 PM
Pretty much spot-on. However, there is complication here because its design is nearly identical to another device which is considered a flash hider.



Ah that makes sense. Didn't think of it like that. I would be concerned myself if I had, say, an MB that looked almost exactly like an A2 birdcage FH.

bigthaiboy
03-02-2010, 4:48 PM
Pretty much spot-on. However, there is complication here because its design is nearly identical to another device which is considered a flash hider.

To the OP: If I were you, if you're going to keep that on there, I'd make abso-frackin-lutely sure that you've saved a printout of the page you ordered it from, plus the receipt, and that they all say muzzle brake.

I personally would not mess with that device on a featureless build, but if you're going to do so, then by all means make a hardcopy of everything you have that asserts it was marketed and sold and installed as a muzzle brake.

That is my thoughts exactly. Wiselite describes and markets it as a M60 muzzle brake. Unless they have changed the design from a regular M60 flash hider to make it physically function as a muzzle brake, then that's where potential problems lie.

As for the argument if its sold as a muzzle brake, it's a muzzle brake argument, I wouldn't want to bet my freedom on this particular muzzle attachment without further confirmation that the design is not identical to that of the M60 flash hider, and that Wiselite has changed the design of it for it to function as a muzzle brake, and not a flash hider.

Wiselite are entitled to market this item as whatever it likes, it has no bearing on the law in other states. This is slightly different for CA, as a flash hider is a SB23 part, and clearly needs proper identification, as to not fall foul of CA AW laws.

As for whether it has 3, 4 or 5 vents, does not change the fact, that it is still a bird-cage design, which is without doubt, one of the most common designs for a military flash hider. Check out NDS's Tabuk FH: http://www.nodakspud.com/

B Strong
03-02-2010, 5:41 PM
I applaud your ingenuity.

I'd find another solution to fixing the stock though.

Rooftop Voter
03-03-2010, 1:26 PM
here are the pics of the muzzle brake. The 9mm round will just barely go inside of the muzzle... It doesnt look like it has a "chamber" to me.
And I found a cheap key chain caribiner that fits on the stock and endcap loop... but its PINK in color!!! :rolleyes::o:D

Rooftop Voter
03-03-2010, 1:38 PM
This caribiner wont scratch the crinkle paint finish as the heavy padlock would likely do. lmao :hide:

C_1
03-03-2010, 1:57 PM
Nice Sterling carbine. I like your temporary solution to locking the stock. Very.. industrial looking :)

Funbaby
03-03-2010, 3:11 PM
I applaud your ingenuity.

I'd find another solution to fixing the stock though.

Yeah i agree padlock on the stock isn't gonna cut it.

Rooftop Voter
03-03-2010, 3:17 PM
Yeah i agree padlock on the stock isn't gonna cut it.
what do you suggest - welding the stock in the open position? Anything permanent will make weapon disassembly impossible or maybe even ruin the receiver...

djleisure
03-03-2010, 3:19 PM
You could also just get some black paracord, tie one end to the sling mount, then wind it around either arm and through the sling mount a couple times and tie if off at the sling mount again. That would be pretty discreet and might even look kinda cool - especially if you went ahead and para-wrapped the whole stock (feels good on the cheek!)

hnoppenberger
03-03-2010, 4:18 PM
can you believe they make us do this? nice work though, im sure it PO's the doj.

Super Spy
03-03-2010, 5:34 PM
They make one of these for 7.62x25 too.....I'd love one of those! :tt1: :drool5:

Funbaby
03-04-2010, 9:39 AM
I see your point about the end cap not coming off.

Refresh my memory, is the end cap held onto the receiver with twist lugs and tension from the main spring?

Funbaby
03-04-2010, 10:01 AM
:DBit of a departure from the original look of a sterling, but if you were really bored you could stick a Lee-Enfield stock on it and call it a Lanchester clone.

Rooftop Voter
03-04-2010, 2:47 PM
I see your point about the end cap not coming off.

Refresh my memory, is the end cap held onto the receiver with twist lugs and tension from the main spring?

Thats exactly how you do it.
It shoots low and to the left as I have heard many of these Sterling from WLA shoot that way from the factory. Not a single jam or malfunction out of 350 rds... :43:
I am going to get another job just to keep 9mm stocked up! :o:D

jinggoyd1967
03-04-2010, 5:43 PM
Looks great! Man, I wish there was a way to put together Sten mk1 or mk2.

ElvenSoul
03-04-2010, 5:53 PM
umm to make a more permanent fixed stock how about soldering a carbiner closed. That way if you really have to take it off. Well it wouldn't be that hard, but hard enough to perhaps appease a gov't officiale.

ElvenSoul
03-04-2010, 6:22 PM
Just found the missing ACC you need. Well other than a bayonet.

http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_214_59/products_id/1530?osCsid=4eb923aa57445306fbd382de52a51548

ElvenSoul
03-04-2010, 8:00 PM
If only trasers where legal. As soon as I saw your gun I was thinking this in the back of my head. Turns out someone has allready done it.

http://sterlingblasterconversion.blogspot.com/

seems this gentleman fixed the stock problem as well.

grammaton76
03-05-2010, 1:12 PM
umm to make a more permanent fixed stock how about soldering a carbiner closed. That way if you really have to take it off. Well it wouldn't be that hard, but hard enough to perhaps appease a gov't officiale.

Guys - if the weapon is 26" with the stock folded, permanence is utterly unnecessary.

Say it with me: California assault weapon code has no standard of permanence. Federal law does. If the weapon is Federally legal without fixing the stock, permanence is not necessary.

If all you're worried about is California assault weapon laws, there is no requirement that the stock be permanently fixed.

darkest2000
03-05-2010, 2:17 PM
Yeah i agree padlock on the stock isn't gonna cut it.

Why not?:rolleyes:

Rooftop Voter
03-05-2010, 8:19 PM
grammaton76 - I thought the weapon OAL had to be 30" to be legit???

elSquid
03-05-2010, 8:32 PM
what do you suggest - welding the stock in the open position? Anything permanent will make weapon disassembly impossible or maybe even ruin the receiver...

Use a handful of black cable ties.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/woeimages/Electrical/9124.jpg

-- Michael

Rukus
03-05-2010, 9:46 PM
grammaton76 - I thought the weapon OAL had to be 30" to be legit???

Agreed, especially since the Sterling can be fired when in the folded position.

I was under the impression that OAL would not need to be permanent so long as the weapon in its shortest fireable configuration was greater than 30".

Now I'm all confused....

WW2Buff
03-05-2010, 11:49 PM
Me too, I'd like to see if there was some sort of loophole was around. I know about the 30" oal for centerfires and 26" oal for rimfires. (I think that's correct) -Ben

REDHORSE
03-06-2010, 8:47 AM
People v. Rooney, 17 Cal.App.4th 1207 (1 Dist. 1993)

Short shotguns and short rifles are defined at (c)(1) and (c)(2) respectively; the definitions are essentially the same as
federal law. HOWEVER, unlike the feds, California courts have ruled that the length of a rifle with a folding stock is
measured with the stock folded, not extended, as the feds do. So a gun that is not a short rifle under federal law may be one under California law. See People v. Rooney, 17 Cal.App.4th 1207 (1 Dist. 1993).https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=53990
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=264115




(http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=212224)

Rukus
03-06-2010, 12:44 PM
Ok so I think I understand everything now. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here:

-If an attachment is needed to bring a barrel to Federally legal 16" minimum length then it has to be PERMANENT.

-If an attachment is needed to bring the overall length to 30" it need NOT be permanent. (So long as the barrel meets the 16" requirement)

The issue that seems to be going on here has to do with an "evil feature". IMO the fixed stock should at least require a tool to render it back to normal action.

I would not feel comfortable using paracord to secure it as that could easily be untied without a tool. The lock requires the key. The carabiner I would not trust as anyone could easily slip it off. I'm not saying the stock needs to be welded open but it should not be readily able to revert using just your bare hands.

Jpach
03-06-2010, 1:20 PM
Ok so I think I understand everything now. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here:

-If an attachment is needed to bring a barrel to Federally legal 16" minimum length then it has to be PERMANENT.

-If an attachment is needed to bring the overall length to 30" it need NOT be permanent. (So long as the barrel meets the 16" requirement)

The issue that seems to be going on here has to do with an "evil feature". IMO the fixed stock should at least require a tool to render it back to normal action.

I would not feel comfortable using paracord to secure it as that could easily be untied without a tool. The lock requires the key. The carabiner I would not trust as anyone could easily slip it off. I'm not saying the stock needs to be welded open but it should not be readily able to revert using just your bare hands.

There is no permanence to the mods. Just as one can put a non-permanent muzzle device on the gun to meet OAL, one can do what the OP did. How is it any more sketchy than being able to remove a muzzle device with your hands? I think you feel this way just because we try to mix logic with laws at times. Doesnt work usually haha.

Rukus
03-06-2010, 1:31 PM
How is it any more sketchy than being able to remove a muzzle device with your hands?

Well put. Didn't really think about that...

Turbinator
03-07-2010, 1:36 PM
Nice gun, thanks for sharing the pictures.

Turby

Rooftop Voter
03-07-2010, 10:03 PM
And why am I not surprised that these are listed as "SOLD OUT" @ Henderson Defense now... lmao!
I want to see everyone else's Sterling when they are done with it!

Chemtchr
03-08-2010, 3:37 PM
I picked mine up this weekend from Bright Spot. Solved the folding stock problem by attaching the rear receiver cap to the receiver with a set screw, needs a tool now to fold up. Solved the mag release problem with a new metric M5 screw with the head ground flush with the magwell and a washer with a small opening JB welded over the mag release as a bullet button. Finger won't fit, requires a tool to drop the mag. Shortened the mag with a rod welded to the follower limiting the mag to 10 rounds.

tonelar
03-08-2010, 4:48 PM
It's a 9mm, right?

So, the "muzzle brake" makes it 30" oal?

Rooftop Voter
03-09-2010, 9:59 AM
You need a muzzle device attachment that will add at least 3.5" to get the required OAL. The OAL with stock folded is 27".

REDHORSE
03-10-2010, 12:11 PM
Here is my Sterling Bullet Button design. It's my first prototype, proof of concept design.

I'm going to make a smaller version (ver #2) of it this weekend. Smaller in diameter & height. I can shorten this one by another 1/8" - 1/4", but I didn't want to ruin a working button.

I took some material I had lying around and picked up some hardware from Home Depot. I used a stainless steel bolt, washer, spring from HD, the rest of the parts were from materials I had in the garage.

I was worried that the aluminum tube I used to house the spring, washer, and bolt would allow manipulation of the button (someone with super skinny finger [petite female, child]). None of my fingers would fit into the aluminum tube to manipulate the mag bolt.

So I topped it off with a cut down base of a nickle plated .45 ACP casing, to play it safe. The .45 ACP shell will give you a better idea of scale.

I drilled out the primer hole to the size of the primer pocket. To allow a tool (cleaning rod, Allen tool) to press down on the mag bolt to release the magazine.

The M5 bolt wasn't the correct bolt type for my mag catch. M5 nut would fit the factory mag button, but an M5 bolt would not thread into the mag catch. So, I found an inch bolt that fit the mag catch.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9791/sterlingbb1.jpg



As it was already stated in the thread earlier, the receiver end cap has a small hole on the bottom. I took a tap and threaded this hole for a set screw. With the set screw tightened down, you can not move the end receiver cap to release the stock.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9376/sterlingstock.jpg
(http://img62.imageshack.us/i/sterlingstock.jpg/)

Rooftop Voter
03-10-2010, 5:22 PM
REDHORSE - how much would you charge to do that?

Rukus
03-10-2010, 5:37 PM
REDHORSE - how much would you charge to do that?

+1

I've been spending time trying to develop my own as well. All the easiest solutions I had reached involved drilling/tapping the magwell which I really didnt want to do. Looks good.

REDHORSE
03-10-2010, 6:55 PM
The Sterling Bullet Button I made requires no modification to the mag well or the mag catch (or any part of the carbine). It basically drops in and replaces the factory mag button and spring.

I need to work on the BB and refine the design a bit more, before I even think about making a few extra for others.

Rooftop Voter
03-10-2010, 8:20 PM
I've been on the prowl for one of these to install on a 9mm Sterling pistol. All the prototypes I have seen include drilling the mag housing in some way to install.

Rooftop Voter
03-11-2010, 9:16 PM
I had an issue with my Sterling today!!! Broke the tip off of my firing pin just after I got her all sighted in!!!!! :banghead:
But I am already more than satisfied with Wise Lite Arms response to my e-mails for assistance. I e-mailed them and they responded very quickly and are going to have their Senior Sterling Tech call me Monday (they are closed fridays) to get my info to ship me a replacement firing pin.
I hope I dont have to ship the gun back to them because it sounds like it could get "iffy" on whether they will ship it directly back to me!!! :shrug:
I just want to get it up and running again - like this = :13:

E-120
03-11-2010, 10:24 PM
I am interested in getting a colfire pistol. Would your modification work on that as well?

REDHORSE
03-11-2010, 10:40 PM
A link to save: Sterling SA parts https://www.apexgunparts.com/index.php/cPath/83

The have semi auto firing pins ($30), but I'm not sure if they are Wise Lite Sterling Sporter compatible??

Rooftop Voter
03-11-2010, 11:00 PM
WLA is covering everything under the 1-year warranty.
REDHORSE - I am almost certain the majority of those parts are made by WLA themselves so they should be compatible.

calico9mm
03-12-2010, 8:00 AM
My solution...

I used a smal bolt and nut to disable back cap catch and thus prevent back cap from fully sliding forward.
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad252/sony_350/0306100639a.jpg

Fixed mag by replacing spring with metal sleeve so button cannot be pushed in, then load ammo from the inside.
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad252/sony_350/0306100637.jpg

To load ammo, I made a metal piece to hold bolt open. It will be like this for now until I (or someone else) come up with a BB.
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad252/sony_350/0306100639.jpg

Rooftop Voter
03-12-2010, 9:51 AM
calico9mm - very ingenious! Never thought to feed the mag like a fixed mag SKS! And you just drilled a small hole into the end cap release?
What magazine are you running in it - a 10 rounder or did you block your "rebuild kit" to 10 rounds?

WOW - this website is just full of people with good ideas and different ways of fixing the same problems!!! SWEET!!!!!!

gunn
03-12-2010, 12:53 PM
If only trasers where legal. As soon as I saw your gun I was thinking this in the back of my head. Turns out someone has allready done it.

http://sterlingblasterconversion.blogspot.com/

seems this gentleman fixed the stock problem as well.

It sounds like the guy started with a deactivated gun vs. cutting up a working firearm. Whatever floats your boat.
-g

calico9mm
03-12-2010, 5:19 PM
Yup drilled a small hole, I think bolt is just 0.060 diameter. Mag is blocked to hold 10 rounds only.

calico9mm - very ingenious! Never thought to feed the mag like a fixed mag SKS! And you just drilled a small hole into the end cap release?
What magazine are you running in it - a 10 rounder or did you block your "rebuild kit" to 10 rounds?

WOW - this website is just full of people with good ideas and different ways of fixing the same problems!!! SWEET!!!!!!

762.DEFENSE
09-03-2010, 12:37 AM
Redhorse Id love to pick up one of your BB.for a.WLA sterling Ive been aching to pick up...let me know if youd be willing to sell me one :).

REDHORSE
09-03-2010, 12:44 AM
I haven't posted pictures of current one I did, a little smaller than what I posted here.

I made and extra one for my buddy, plus he has all my notes and measurements. I'll see if I can make another one.

Twinsen
09-03-2010, 8:20 AM
Awesome. I <3 the OP. Somewhere some anti-gunner is reaching for rolaids. This sterling does NOT spell relief.