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We Are Apocalypse
03-01-2010, 6:51 PM
Who has one? I'm pretty much over the whole tacticool craze and am considering slapping on a BCM 20 inch upper with carry handle onto my BCM lower and replacing the stock with an A2 stock. Just wondering what the thoughts were on these 20 inch AR variants. Maybe everyone else still isn't over the tacticool craze. I figured if I want to build a super duper tacticool rifle, I'll go with a more modern platform (like a SCAR).

Here is the current iteration of my AR variant, minus the LaRue Forward Grip now...

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a116/sevenpointking/DSC01031.jpg

Anyone with a KISS A4 clone, please feel free to post pics.

aplinker
03-01-2010, 7:15 PM
I have an A4 clone - it's one of a few rifles I built as full clones.

20" gov't, KAC RAS, A2 grip and stock.

I have the carry handle for it, but I more often run an ACOG.

Centurion_D
03-01-2010, 7:19 PM
You mean something like this?...

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o94/dvill223/M16A4gery.jpg

We Are Apocalypse
03-01-2010, 7:25 PM
I have an A4 clone - it's one of a few rifles I built as full clones.

20" gov't, KAC RAS, A2 grip and stock.

I have the carry handle for it, but I more often run an ACOG.

Do you find it unwieldy? I must admit, I'm somewhat taken back by this tactical craze today. I have no plans of doing mounted patrols, running a carbine course, taking a Magpul class and nor do I have delusions of being the team leader on my block when SHTF. It seems like an A4 would suit me just fine.

You mean something like this?...

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o94/dvill223/M16A4gery.jpg

Yes sir, something like that, not sure about putting on KAC rails though, maybe just regular handguards and a carry handle.

DREADNOUGHT78
03-01-2010, 7:26 PM
You mean something like this?...

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o94/dvill223/M16A4gery.jpg

I like this! I am building one exactly the same. I only need to buy the barrel I found the GI profile barrel by Bushmaster for $225 so all that is left is to finish the last of the 3 Carbines I been building and then on the the A4.

OP Nice rifle you should keep it and start over and build another rifle I have found that while it is cool to have a clone it is nice to have other ARs to mess with so you will leave the clone alone!

Centurion_D
03-01-2010, 7:38 PM
To the OP...I went ahead and slapped on a KAC rail system so I could get it as close as possible to the A4. It really is my favorite rifle. I find myself bringing this one to the range more than my M4gery. I'm very happy with it.

xibunkrlilkidsx
03-01-2010, 7:43 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/GimpyVision/Guns%20and%20knives/Picture101.jpg

Im to tall of a guy for a carbine. A4 FTW!

aplinker
03-01-2010, 7:51 PM
To the OP...I went ahead and slapped on a KAC rail system so I could get it as close as possible to the A4. It really is my favorite rifle. I find myself bringing this one to the range more than my M4gery. I'm very happy with it.

I was building the clone, as well.

I don't shoot it much. Last time I looked at it I was considering what to do - mod or sell, but I really like having an A4 clone.

Call_me_Tom
03-02-2010, 1:30 PM
I'm not into the tacticool M4's either even though I carry one for my day job. I like the A4 & am in the market for one.

Pryde
03-02-2010, 2:20 PM
For anyone interested in an A4 clone, I have one complete I am looking to sell. Colt upper on Sabre lower with RAS I am looking to sell. All USGI (Sabre, Colt and KAC) parts.

DDRH
03-02-2010, 2:34 PM
i went with the "tacticool" "similar" look...ubr stock, DD 12" Omega, MIAD

The DRis
03-02-2010, 3:20 PM
Don't see how the stuff is "tacticool" as you so love to throw around.

16" barrel means less weight. Why do I need a 20"?

Collapsible stock means shooters of different sizes can easily adjust and use my rifle.

MIAD grip means I can make the grip better fit my hand for better trigger control.

A real KISS wouldn't have rails on it. Just the plastic handguards. How is a KAC RAS not "tacticool"?

We Are Apocalypse
03-02-2010, 5:04 PM
Don't see how the stuff is "tacticool" as you so love to throw around.

16" barrel means less weight. Why do I need a 20"?

Collapsible stock means shooters of different sizes can easily adjust and use my rifle.

MIAD grip means I can make the grip better fit my hand for better trigger control.

A real KISS wouldn't have rails on it. Just the plastic handguards. How is a KAC RAS not "tacticool"?

I wasn't going to use a RAS. Look at this picture, this is how an M16A4 comes from Colt and this is how I intended to build it.

http://www.colt.com/mil/images/M16.jpg

I don't think a collapsible stock is tacticool, nor a 16 inch barrel. I'm considering a basic M4gery as well as an M16A4 clone. I do not consider the rifle below tacticool at all.

http://sgcusa.com/images/supporting_images_large/Colt_6920_C.jpg

We Are Apocalypse
03-02-2010, 5:09 PM
BTW, I think I'm going to hold off on the A4 clone for now. I just picked up a Remington 700 and it needs glass. I figure that's more important.

aplinker
03-02-2010, 6:20 PM
The picture you showed is not an M16A4 as issued, it's an M16A4 as colt ships them.

WW2Buff
03-02-2010, 6:25 PM
My AR is an A4 clone, my favorite set up for sure. I switch between my ACOG and carry handle and between a pistol grip and mmg since it has a muzzle break and I dislike forward vertical grips. I run it in three gun. -Ben

joefrank64k
03-02-2010, 6:44 PM
I went the A2 clone route for one of my builds, just to have a no nonsense rifle at hand...I even got an A2 upper (with built in carry handle) along with the A2 PG, A2 Buttstock, USGI Sling, etc.

It's one of my favorite rifles as well...last time at the range, I never got around to my M4's...simple, light, accurate, easy handling.

killshot44
03-02-2010, 6:53 PM
The picture you showed is not an M16A4 as issued, it's an M16A4 as colt ships them.

His accompanying text reads "this is how an M16A4 comes from Colt"

andrewj
03-02-2010, 7:20 PM
http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr294/andrewjarvi28/Clipboard01-5.jpg

I tried putting together an A4 but decided not to drop any cash on an ACOG and RAS since I liked the KISS look better. I liked having it for awhile but as time went on, I got bored with it. I eventually tacticooled it out and made it an "SPR".

aplinker
03-02-2010, 7:24 PM
His accompanying text reads "this is how an M16A4 comes from Colt"

Yes, I know that, the point is that it's not an A4, it's the base rifle of the A4.

I'm just making it clear that, until it has the accessories, it's not an A4.

It's not to be an *** or anything, it's just to get the definition clear of "what's an A4."

WW2Buff
03-02-2010, 10:05 PM
What is shipped as from Colt then? An A2? Also, who does the accessorizing, an armorer? -Ben

Flogger23m
03-02-2010, 10:32 PM
What is shipped as from Colt then? An A2? Also, who does the accessorizing, an armorer? -Ben

A2 is the same as the rifle pictured above, just with the fixed carry handle.

We Are Apocalypse
03-03-2010, 6:37 PM
Yes, I know that, the point is that it's not an A4, it's the base rifle of the A4.

I'm just making it clear that, until it has the accessories, it's not an A4.

It's not to be an *** or anything, it's just to get the definition clear of "what's an A4."

I'm confused, according to Colt, this is an M16A4,

http://www.colt.com/mil/images/M16.jpg

http://www.colt.com/mil/M16.asp

According to this link from the US Army, https://peosoldier.army.mil/FactSheets/PMSW/SW_IW_M16.pdf the M16A4 with the KAC rail is an M16A4 MWS

I don't know, maybe I'm reading it wrong but the rifle pictured seems to be an M16A4 and when you add on the rail, it becomes the M16A4 MWS.

WW2Buff
03-03-2010, 9:40 PM
I know, I realized that when I posted. I believe that to be an M16A4. A2 is fixed carry, three round burst. A3 is fixed carry, full auto. There is no such legitimate designation as "A2 with removable carry handle" So it has to be an A4 unless I have never heard of the name. -Ben

aplinker
03-03-2010, 10:05 PM
The MWS is just part of the additional nomenclature the Army loves. The A4 has been fielded, from the start, with the RAS.

What Colt says is an A4 is irrelevant (when they show that they're showing their piece of the rifle). That's what they make. They can call it an M1Gshdh!+1. The M16A4 is a military designation - a complete system rifle that's fielded - and it includes the RAS.

In short, the only designated rifle in the military that's an M16A4 includes the RAS.

I'm confused, according to Colt, this is an M16A4,

http://www.colt.com/mil/images/M16.jpg

http://www.colt.com/mil/M16.asp

According to this link from the US Army, https://peosoldier.army.mil/FactSheets/PMSW/SW_IW_M16.pdf the M16A4 with the KAC rail is an M16A4 MWS

I don't know, maybe I'm reading it wrong but the rifle pictured seems to be an M16A4 and when you add on the rail, it becomes the M16A4 MWS.

Grassninja
03-03-2010, 10:18 PM
You mean something like this?...

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o94/dvill223/M16A4gery.jpg

This is about the closest thing to an issue M16A4 in the Corps I've seen on here.. minus the scrapes, scratches, chips, fading, dirt, and just general TLC that a Marine would give his rifle. :D It doesn't have the bayonet lug or the 3 round burst fire obviously. The KAC rail, as far as I know, comes installed already when they arrive to units. They'll ship with the detachable carry handle but are usually taken off and replaced by ACOG's. Throw on a peq, surefire, and foregrip and you're good to go. Just as a FYI, all of the M16A4's I've seen are manufactured by FNH USA.

The only people I've seen with regular handguards are non-combat MOS folks in the army or air force, and a lot of them were M16A2's. A weapon for the sake of having a weapon in theater I suppose.

aplinker
03-04-2010, 1:41 PM
A bayonet lug is perfectly legal.

The only things we can't have are the 3rd burst and 30rd detachable mags.

That is a great looking clone.

It's missing the Matech BUIS, too.

I believe FNH is primary, with Sabre making some, as well. I've heard there are Colts, too, but I guess it really doesn't matter.

I have fond feelings for the A4, as well. There's something very pure & modern KISS to it.

We Are Apocalypse
03-04-2010, 5:34 PM
The MWS is just part of the additional nomenclature the Army loves. The A4 has been fielded, from the start, with the RAS.

What Colt says is an A4 is irrelevant (when they show that they're showing their piece of the rifle). That's what they make. They can call it an M1Gshdh!+1. The M16A4 is a military designation - a complete system rifle that's fielded - and it includes the RAS.

In short, the only designated rifle in the military that's an M16A4 includes the RAS.


Ahh, I see. So many terms being thrown around.

The DRis
03-04-2010, 10:59 PM
How is it KISS with a rail on it. A longer rail I might add that weighs more.

aplinker
03-05-2010, 7:38 AM
How is it KISS with a rail on it. A longer rail I might add that weighs more.

A rail is 100% KISS when you're required to mount a PEQ

The DRis
03-05-2010, 9:12 AM
I'm just saying they put a rail to hang "tacitcool" crap

aplinker
03-05-2010, 2:02 PM
I'm just saying they put a rail to hang "tacitcool" crap

Who's "they?"

QuarterBoreGunner
03-05-2010, 3:14 PM
What model ACOG is normally mounted on the A4 in the field?
See I've been looking those pictures and doing some thinking. I already *have* a RAW Colt Sporter. And I already *have* a new KAC M5 rail kit in the box... I'd just have to swap out the A2 upper for a flat top and that's easy enough... shoot I'm more than half way there.

aplinker
03-05-2010, 3:21 PM
TA31RCO-A4 is the one I'd get of those fielded.

Centurion_D
03-05-2010, 6:19 PM
I updated my pic..the only thing added is the killflash. I've been debating whether to get a upper with F marked/bayonet lug front sight barrel. It's really not a priority.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o94/dvill223/A4gery.jpg

Centurion_D
03-05-2010, 6:55 PM
TA31RCO-A4 is the one I'd get of those fielded.

Save a few bucks and get the TA31F.

Centurion_D
03-05-2010, 7:10 PM
A bayonet lug is perfectly legal.

The only things we can't have are the 3rd burst and 30rd detachable mags.

That is a great looking clone.

It's missing the Matech BUIS, too.

I believe FNH is primary, with Sabre making some, as well. I've heard there are Colts, too, but I guess it really doesn't matter.

I have fond feelings for the A4, as well. There's something very pure & modern KISS to it.

Ahhh..you can have 30rnd mags if you have a RAW. ;) I remember purchasing the mags at the San Mateo fairgounds gunshow. That was many, many moons ago.

DDRH
03-05-2010, 7:36 PM
Hows the ta11f compare with the other 2 noted above? I'm planning to get this combo on larue's Site. I think I prefer the longer eye relief.

Centurion_D
03-05-2010, 8:14 PM
Hows the ta11f compare with the other 2 noted above? I'm planning to get this combo on larue's Site. I think I prefer the longer eye relief.

I've have no experience with the TA11F. It has slightly lower magnification. Maybe someone else can chime in.