PDA

View Full Version : Remington 700


troyJPX
03-01-2010, 4:56 PM
Which Remington 700 .308 that you can convert with a detachable ten round magazine like H-S precision? Do i need to replaced the existing stock?

Many Thnx,
Troy

swerv512
03-01-2010, 4:57 PM
:xeno:
H-S DMS is only drop- in for most H-S stocks. For M700s, basically- 700P, 5R, sendero (i think), VSSF...

ar15barrels
03-01-2010, 5:04 PM
:xeno:
H-S DMS is only drop- in for most H-S stocks. For M700s, basically- 700P, 5R, sendero (i think), VSSF...

Sendero and VSSF both use HS stocks which will accept the HS bottom metal.

ANY stock can have detatchable mag bottom metal inletted though.
It's just a matter of asking if it's worth it to you...

Sumo99
03-01-2010, 5:19 PM
I have a 700LTR with the H-S 10 round mag.

DocSkinner
03-08-2010, 2:02 AM
I have a 700LTR with the H-S 10 round mag.

But ~$100 a pop for mags. Doesn't anyone make a trigger guard/base plate that takes standard DPMS/Stoner or M14/M1A mags?

shadowofnight
03-08-2010, 7:32 AM
If you are just going to shoot 20-40 rounds , or have magazines already filled ready to use in rapid succession...the H-S DM bottom metal system is awesome.

If you shoot 100 or more rounds ( I usually like 200 or 300 ) every time you go to the shooting , the center feed mags become a real pain in the rear to keep filling up. You need to depress in the front and slide the rounds to the rear of the mag, getting all 10 in is not hard...but it takes too much time and effort away from the actual trigger time.

Where as with my Socom II / M1A mags , you just push rounds straight down into the mag...takes almost no effort at all...done almost subconsiously.

Sure the H-S looks awesome and functions flawlessly as well ( I installed mine in my Rem 700 Tactical with a Bell and Carlson stock ,it took a bit of inletting...but was worth every minute of time needed to do so )...but for extended range time I just leave an empty mag installed and shoot the rifle single shot.

Just thought you should know about the center feed mags before investing in the H-S is all. I would install the system again, because there are times when I like the fast reloading capability...but the CF mags are a PIA.


P.S. Also, dont forget if you are a reloader...that you need to load magazine length cartridges for the system to function. Most of my favorite bullets/loads are much too long to fit in the magazine when loaded where they shoot the best in my rifle.
The only bullet I have found to fit in the mag and be loaded to where my rifle likes it has been the 167 gr Lapua Scenar.

ar15barrels
03-08-2010, 8:03 AM
But ~$100 a pop for mags. Doesn't anyone make a trigger guard/base plate that takes standard DPMS/Stoner or M14/M1A mags?

The 700 reciever requires a center-feed mag.
M14 and Stoner mags feed off the left and right mag lips.
It's a lot of machine work to the reciever and then the receiver can never be used with a normal fixed bottom metal again...
Also, the reciever gets more flexible which is not good if you are hanging a heavy barrel off the front.

Besides, you don't really need more than a couple mags for a bolt gun.

Sumo99
03-08-2010, 8:58 AM
But ~$100 a pop for mags.
Are they really? :eek: I had no idea. I bought my 700 used with the bottom metal all ready installed. Hopefully I'll never need more than 1.

ar15barrels
03-08-2010, 9:13 AM
Are they really? :eek: I had no idea. I bought my 700 used with the bottom metal all ready installed. Hopefully I'll never need more than 1.

Most matches that I shoot are less than 10 rounds per string of fire and there is LOTS of time to reload the mag between strings.
Only the very biggest matches will have you fire more than 10 rounds in one string.
Some matches do limit you to only 5 rounds in the gun though which pretty much requires you to reload to finish the 10 round course of fire.

Sumo99
03-08-2010, 9:53 AM
I seriously doubt I will ever shoot competitively. I consider myself lucky if I get to the range every other month. :( I don't think I'll ever need more than one mag. Heck, I usually only load 5 at a time anyway.

ar15barrels
03-08-2010, 10:11 AM
I seriously doubt I will ever shoot competitively. I consider myself lucky if I get to the range every other month. :( I don't think I'll ever need more than one mag. Heck, I usually only load 5 at a time anyway.

Then why have a detachable mag?

swerv512
03-08-2010, 11:03 AM
Then why have a detachable mag?

^^^
this...

Sumo99
03-08-2010, 11:25 AM
Then why have a detachable mag?
I bought the gun used and that's how it came. When I was looking at getting my 1st bolt gun, I just wanted a plain 700 SPS, but when I found the 700 LTR w/ the detachable mag, harris bi-pod, bushnell 3200 10x scope, leupold rings and carrying case for $1000, I figured it was a good deal.

X-NewYawker
03-08-2010, 11:48 AM
Then why have a detachable mag?

It's COOL, man. You can carry two different bullet weights ready to go.

ar15barrels
03-08-2010, 11:52 AM
It's COOL, man. You can carry two different bullet weights ready to go.

oh yeah, because it's SO COMMON to use multiple bullet weights...

Posers always buy the things the really cool people actually use, even though they don't actually need them.

I'm not calling Sumo a poser because he bought the gun as a package and the mag setup happened to be there.
I'm saying that people that buy a mag setup for the looks are posers that should come out and USE their guns how they were meant to be used.

6dSrVNcMAFw

The reload was at about 2:55

DocSkinner
03-08-2010, 6:55 PM
The 700 reciever requires a center-feed mag.
M14 and Stoner mags feed off the left and right mag lips.
It's a lot of machine work to the reciever and then the receiver can never be used with a normal fixed bottom metal again...
Also, the reciever gets more flexible which is not good if you are hanging a heavy barrel off the front.

Besides, you don't really need more than a couple mags for a bolt gun.

Not sure why any one would go back after doing it, but the rest makes sense - basically you need a different receiver, so don't bother starting with the 700...

Edit:
Is there really that much more 'meat' on the AR barrel area than the 700?? and steel versus aluminum? I have an old (early 50s) long action 721, and a DPMS .308, so a couple more questions? Is the 721 receiver (even though long v short?) roughly the same as the current 700s? If so, going to have to look deeper here. Although as stated - I do see your point of a feed ramp machining issue.

DocSkinner
03-08-2010, 7:02 PM
It's COOL, man. You can carry two different bullet weights ready to go.

Exactly, a great point for us non posers that hunt animals, not just dingers or paper. Can't say how many times been out with deer and elk tags having a crappy day with them, but keep seeing coyotes...

Begin Edit:
and owning a .308 DPMS already, would be nice to be able to use the same magazines with a 700 in .308 (which I want to buy soon).
KISS - all my .308s use the same magazine, no problems with what fits what.
end edit


And an aside - freedom isn't about only having what you need or use extensively/professionally. Most civilians don't really need an AR style rifle 99% of the time, so should none of us buy them or want them? same with 11+ round magazines, .50 caiber rifles, cars that will go 200mph, etc, etc. Should all civilians be limited to single shot rifles then?

Should be careful with your logic AR, and see how others will apply your own reasoning to other things before you give them a 'loaded gun'...

DocSkinner
03-08-2010, 7:16 PM
Not sure why any one would go back after doing it, but the rest makes sense - basically you need a different receiver, so don't bother starting with the 700...

Edit:
Is there really that much more 'meat' on the AR barrel area than the 700?? and steel versus aluminum? I have an old (early 50s) long action 721, and a DPMS .308, so a couple more questions? Is the 721 receiver (even though long v short?) roughly the same as the current 700s? If so, going to have to look deeper here. Although as stated - I do see your point of a feed ramp machining issue.

Looking at the 721, it seems the problem would be you suddenly would have only one locking lug (well, maybe 1.1 lugs) for the bolt. Probably the biggest issue more than the barrel weight? What about this type of conversion for 3 lug style rifles?

ar15barrels
03-08-2010, 9:00 PM
Is there really that much more 'meat' on the AR barrel area than the 700?? and steel versus aluminum?

I don't think you understand any of what I was talking about and I'm not sure what you are talking about.
AR's and bolt actions are entirely different.
It's not the feedramp I was talking about either.
I was talking about the area where the round sits before the bolt strips it from the mag.

ar15barrels
03-08-2010, 9:02 PM
Should be careful with your logic AR, and see how others will apply your own reasoning to other things before you give them a 'loaded gun'...

I've gotten over caring about other people's feelings a long time ago.

phish
03-08-2010, 9:14 PM
But ~$100 a pop for mags. Doesn't anyone make a trigger guard/base plate that takes standard DPMS/Stoner or M14/M1A mags?

The only bolt gun that I know of that takes DPMS magazines is the T2K rifle, and it is an entirely different animal than a 700 based action.

DocSkinner
03-23-2010, 11:21 AM
I've gotten over caring about other people's feelings a long time ago.

too bad - cuz those people vote in the people that make the LAWS YOU have to follow... I can see the ban types using posts like yours to justify how even avid gun people and in the gun industry support restricting ownership.

They could also be potential customers. Not always sure who I should do business with, but some people make it REALLY easy to tell who I DON'T want to do business with.

DocSkinner
03-23-2010, 11:32 AM
I don't think you understand any of what I was talking about and I'm not sure what you are talking about.
AR's and bolt actions are entirely different.
It's not the feedramp I was talking about either.
I was talking about the area where the round sits before the bolt strips it from the mag.

I believe that is called the "mag well".
and last I checked they both use (mostly) a bolt that rotates to lock bolt into a receiver. Except for the rare open bolt slam fire type of things.

To clarify:
The center feed uses a small feed ramp centrally located in the receiver, while the edge feeds use 2 feed ramps (one fore each feed position) offset from bottom center. the issue then becomes milling in two feed ramps in the 700 action. Milling in those would remove the metal that the bolt (handle side) lug locks behind. That seems like the huge problem as compared to, if necessary, reinforcing the lower sides of the receiver.


But then I am not an expert like you, so maybe welding a little extra metal on the lower sides is a bigger issue than eliminating one of the two locking lugs. You said/claim expertise - how have your 1 locking lug conversions went?

DocSkinner
03-23-2010, 11:46 AM
The only bolt gun that I know of that takes DPMS magazines is the T2K rifle, and it is an entirely different animal than a 700 based action.

Yeah - that looks like an AR converted to a manual bolt (maybe not all that different after all?). That way, like the ARs, you could still have a locking lug in the bottom 90(+) degrees, as it locks behind the metal between the dual feed ramps.

Seems like unless you converted the whole 700 receiver (i.e.: made a whole new one) to take that AR style multi-lug bolt, the side-lip feed magazines are out. At that point you would basically have a custom rifle and not a 700 anyway!

Oh well...

ar15barrels
03-23-2010, 11:56 AM
Seems like unless you converted the whole 700 receiver (i.e.: made a whole new one) to take that AR style multi-lug bolt, the side-lip feed magazines are out.

Now you are getting it.
It's not the side-lip feeding that's the problem.
It's how far apart the sides are.

There are custom 700 type actions that work with AI AW mags that side-feed.
The lips are not as far apart as DPMS mags though and I think your whole idea is based on using cheaper DPMS mags.

DocSkinner
04-01-2010, 9:08 PM
Now you are getting it.
It's not the side-lip feeding that's the problem.
It's how far apart the sides are.

There are custom 700 type actions that work with AI AW mags that side-feed.
The lips are not as far apart as DPMS mags though and I think your whole idea is based on using cheaper DPMS mags.

Thank you for a nice to the point response! (and that's a real thank you, not a snide one)

Hateca
04-02-2010, 11:22 AM
DPMS, M1A, Fal, and any other .308 mag system has been done before in a Remington with not much success, that's why you don't see them.

The issue is the mag is both way longer and way wider. The bottom metal is custom. A whole lot of metal needs to be removed to even get the mag in there (Not a Dremal job either).

Each and every mag must be fitted to the system, then if you have two rifles that use the same system there is no guarantee that you can swap mag between rifles.

With some of these systems the mag needed to be modified to work in a bolt gun which keeps it from working in the simi-auto it was intended for, kind of defeats the purpose of using the mag in both rifles doesn't it?

A better option came about with the introduction of the AI AW mag. This is a better option for the Remington. Very little metal is removed to allow the mag to fit. Basically you need to remove a portion of the feed rails to allow the mag to enter the receiver. Remington makes this same mod to allow the Remington mag system to work in their factory mag rifle.

With the AW set-up you will also need to re-shape the feed ramp to allow the mag to feed from both sides. This should not be done by the beginner. One removes too much metal here, or does not do the shaping correctly, you will end up with a $400 paper weight.

There are many Remington’s out there that feed AW mags. They will also work with the AICS mag so one has the best of both mags.

There are also several custom actions out there that use AW mags. To date there is only one action that is a Remington footprint that is made to accept the AW mag and it's my Guardian action.

Mag systems are great if it is used as intended, but most don’t. They get it because it looks cool. I have no issue with someone doing that, I’ve been guilty of that myself at times. Just about every rifle I build for myself gets a mag system and more times then not the mag never sees a round, and I simply single feed.(My comp days are over) But I turn over lots of rifles and they sell better with all the bells and whistles.

My only advise is if you want a mag system get the one that is used the most and that’s the AICS mag system with one of the bottom metal kits that are now available that uses the AICS mag.

This is a custom Remington that has been machined to take the 10 round AW mag and all AICS mags.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/hateca/remaw1.jpg

This is my Guardian action that is made from the start to use both AW and AICS mags.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/hateca/GUARD2A.jpg

Here is the bottom of two Remington action. Bottom one has been machined to accept the double stack AW mag.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/hateca/AW1-1.jpg

Bagelthief
04-07-2010, 7:34 PM
I've gotten over caring about other people's feelings a long time ago.

Treat people the way you wish to be treated! It never hurts to be considerate, polite, open minded and level headed...

In fact, I should be taking my own advice. There are times when I am rude when I shouldn't be. I'm working on it though...

uscbigdawg
04-07-2010, 7:54 PM
HateCA's post is the answer of a riflesmith. That's all the info you need to know on this subject.

Rich