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View Full Version : AR: Daniel Defense OR BCM (upper) What do U suggest?


.40Cal
03-01-2010, 11:34 AM
I'm thinking of getting an upper and build my fist AR [mid-length only]. I intend to keep it for a verrrry long time, not thinking of selling it.

My goal is to get a nice AR and shoot targets upto 400-600 yrd. Considering Daniel Defense or BCM. From the research I've done here, I understand both of these are high quality producers. Please compare the SPECS and let me know which you think is better, and why.

A few from BCM - http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=275
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-Troy-Ind-p/bcm-urg-mid-16%20mrf%209.htm


A few from Daniel Defense - http://www.pkfirearms.com/content/1/20/122/163


(also considering Spikes due to specs, except handgaurd) - http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=63_64&products_id=392


If you have the time, please look at these and let me know which is a better deal, and why in your opinion.

Thanks!

Noah3683
03-01-2010, 12:24 PM
Ok I guess I'll be the first to chime in. I own both. I started with a DD, and built a BCM a month later for my wife. Long story short I'm still looking for one for my wife. The DD got shelfed for the BCM as my primary. I just like it a little more, and it is a hair more accurate. BCM uses sabre barrels, which are great barrels. Now this is just my opinion and other's opinions may vary. #2 those uppers you have listed are only DD barrels with cmt receivers and s****y RRA bolt carriers. If both were factory assembled and 100% genuine parts.... DD vs BCM is a close competition, and you can't go wrong either way. BCM vs a DD barrel assembled with misc parts = BCM and never look back. One more thing, BCM has been around longer and proven themselves over more time

Noah3683
03-01-2010, 12:30 PM
BTW this one is better from BCM than the one you found with the troy rail. Troy makes great parts, but DD seems to be the standard that rails are measured by and the DD omega is over 7 ounces lighter than the troy.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-MID-Upper-Receiver-Daniel-Defense-p/bcm-urg-mid%2016%20ddox9.htm

God Bless The Mauser
03-01-2010, 1:08 PM
I went with a BCM 14.5 with pinned flash hider and I love it. DD would be good too but I think BCM is a little better. I have a DD Omega on my BCM and it's really nice, after having it I don't think I would go to any other rail setup.

Juicymeat
03-01-2010, 1:17 PM
Flip a coin, both are great but my experience with BCM brings me back to them time and again and they've given me no reason to buy AR15 uppers from anyone else. They have a lifetime warranty on their products and I like their BCG's because they are all "in spec", and come with the extractor o-ring should you need it.

C_1
03-01-2010, 1:48 PM
If it was a genuine DD assembled upper, then it would be a hard choice between that or a BCM upper. So of the ones you listed, go for a BCM middy, add the auto BCG and CH, with some handguards, all for $605 shipped. Thats what I did :) You wont regret it..

till44
03-01-2010, 2:22 PM
If you decide on BCM, get it directly from BCM. They have some of the best service out there. Further BCM only uses quality parts and they do things right the first time.

Also, if you're looking for a 16 inch upper to be shooting out to 600 yards, look at BCM SS410 barrels. I haven't taken mine out that far, but at 100 yards sub moa groups are doable. In the BCM "Industry" section on ARF guys are getting solid groups out to 425 easily. You may want to consider something with no A2 front sight like this one:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid16%20ss410%20ddl12.htm

Or keep the A2 sight and pick your own handguards:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid16%20ss410.htm

juelz919
03-02-2010, 1:16 PM
I am gonna wait a couple months to see if a DD sale pops up, if not I will get a BCM and not really be too sad about it.. To me it's just which i can find cheapest
Does hammer forged barrel make a difference

Noah3683
03-02-2010, 1:28 PM
I am gonna wait a couple months to see if a DD sale pops up, if not I will get a BCM and not really be too sad about it.. To me it's just which i can find cheapest
Does hammer forged barrel make a difference

You will probably never shoot enough to notice any difference.

juelz919
03-02-2010, 1:34 PM
what does that mean?

DDRH
03-02-2010, 1:48 PM
I am gonna wait a couple months to see if a DD sale pops up, if not I will get a BCM and not really be too sad about it.. To me it's just which i can find cheapest
Does hammer forged barrel make a difference

i'd also like to know...gov profile BFH or med con contour, both chromelined...which ones stiffer/stronger? more accurate.

Barney Gumble
03-02-2010, 2:43 PM
what does that mean?

It means that the regular chrome-lined barrels will last a long time. At least 20,000 rounds. Say you shoot 2000 rounds a year. At that rate it would take 10 years to shoot 20k rounds, and only after that would the HF barrel be giving you any incremental benefit over the standard barrel. Do you want to spend more now to get something back 10 years from now?

Most people don't shoot that much so it's a no-brainer.

If you shoot a lot more than that you'll be spending so much on ammo that the cost of a new barrel shouldn't bother you anyway.

aplinker
03-02-2010, 3:05 PM
There's more to hammer forging than just durability.

Hammer forging does not require the labor that button rifling does, nor does it chew through tooling. It also doesn't require the same amount of lapping (nor skill of the lappers). This means that barrel to barrel variability in accuracy is reduced. Further, for the same amount of effort, the manufacturer can yield a more accurate barrel.

In addition, a CHF barrel should have better thermal and wear characteristics, due to the improved treatment and processing conditions.

Is the difference significant enough to warrant the cost? :shrug: I don't have the time or resources to do the testing to make that conclusion.

It's all about informed choice.

HK Dave
03-03-2010, 8:58 AM
Get the one that's cheaper. They'll both serve you fine. :P

Game Time
03-03-2010, 9:53 AM
I asked the same question about two weeks ago. I ended up going with a BCM middy with a DD Omega X 9.0. Just got my upper on Monday so I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet but I'm sure I made the right pick.

ArkinDomino
03-03-2010, 10:10 AM
I got a BCM middy and a DD XV. They are both nice. If I could only choose one of those I would take the BCM middy.

Thado
03-04-2010, 8:56 PM
I currently own a BCM Middy and no complaints. Has the best value on price I think.

C9X19
03-04-2010, 9:07 PM
BCM uses sabre barrels...

Where did you hear that from?

rolex87
03-04-2010, 9:08 PM
I got a DD 16" because the BCM was out of stock forever. But I'd like a BCM 20" just to keep it even!

Trendkill
03-04-2010, 10:22 PM
Where did you hear that from?

+1.....

supermario
03-04-2010, 10:47 PM
Just curious but wouldnt LMT be a comparable option to the BCM and DD?
Isnt LMT just as good at both of these and dont they have great barrels also?
I am just asking becus i will be getting 1 AR soon and i was trying to decide between LMT, BCM and DD also? Thanks and sorry to jumping in, just trying to get a feeling for what the experienced calgunners think about lmt!

SLYoteBoy
03-04-2010, 10:53 PM
Havent owned a DD "yet" , but I own a BCM 16" carbine with DD lite 9.0 rail. I love it.

.40Cal
03-04-2010, 11:01 PM
Thanks for all the replies guys. Can someone plz paste some links here that YOU suggest..? Whether it's BCM or DD, plz post links & info about what you think is BEST deal out there...or even if you own it.

Much appreciated! :)

Josh3239
03-04-2010, 11:06 PM
Just curious but wouldnt LMT be a comparable option to the BCM and DD?
Isnt LMT just as good at both of these and dont they have great barrels also?
I am just asking becus i will be getting 1 AR soon and i was trying to decide between LMT, BCM and DD also? Thanks and sorry to jumping in, just trying to get a feeling for what the experienced calgunners think about lmt!

Yes LMT makes very good ARs that I would say are on par with BCM and DD. DD and BCM have little things that give them the edge for the money, but there isn't anything I don't think that BCM and DD can do that LMT wouldn't.

dilligaffrn
03-04-2010, 11:18 PM
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-AR15-Upper-Receiver-Group-AR15-s/118.htm

bombadillo
03-04-2010, 11:30 PM
I've had both BCM and DD uppers and currently sold my BCM mid-length upper for a DDM4 upper that is absolutely fantastic. Fit and finish are top notch, as far as accuracy goes, after putting 3-4 boxes of PMC bronze down and cleaning after each shot first five, five shots for 5 more times, and shooting the crap out of it its able to hit shotgun shells and shotgun clay pigeons with ease from an EOtech 512 at 50-70 yards all day long. Shooting the hulls are a little difficult and require some skill, but so far I can plink away at those things and pick them off all day so I don't think accuracy is a concern. I just like the fit and finish a lot more than my BCM had. I also like the free floating handguard compared to the BCM but you can have that either way by switching it out obviously very easily.

aplinker
03-05-2010, 8:34 AM
I'm not trying to be mean, but that's really not a good way to measure the accuracy potential of any rifle.

bombadillo
03-05-2010, 8:40 AM
Oh I know, nothing scientific about it, but it shot better with PMC, Black hills blue box, reloads, and FGMM 69gr SMK's also. I just didn't post up all the other info. In general, the DD just shot a bit tighter than my BCM did.

gunsnrovers
03-05-2010, 9:02 AM
I have a complete DDM4 16" and a complete BCM 14.5".

I have no preference. I am completely satisfied with both.

For my $0.02, which ever leaves you the most $ after purchase for optics, ammo, and training is the one to get.

.40Cal
03-05-2010, 2:18 PM
Hummm.... I am liking the DD. Anyone knows where I can get a complete DD rifle for under 1200?

Also, Are all DD rifles equiped with same barrels/quality? I know some come with quad rail hand gaurds, some with basics. But I'm not worried about that, it can always be changed easily later on.

aplinker
03-05-2010, 3:12 PM
peach state has the XV for 989 and the M4V3 (the best of the M4's) for $1299