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View Full Version : Wolf ammo in AR failing to cycle


lomalinda
02-28-2010, 7:56 PM
Anyone have such a problem? I tried several different uppers with Wolf 556 ammo from the same case and had failures to eject and to feed time and again. From there, I switched to my father's Eagle 556 and there were no issues, so I think the Wolf was the culprit.

Naturally, I have heard all about how Wolf is dirty stuff, but this is a problem I have not encountered before. Anyone run into a similar problem?

Lead-Thrower
02-28-2010, 7:58 PM
Wolf 556 ammo

There is your problem right there. :p

ae13291
02-28-2010, 7:59 PM
yup wolf feeds pretty good through an AK but i dont know if its ok for an AR

gunrun45
02-28-2010, 8:00 PM
Can't say as I have ever had the same problem. Might just be that lot of ammo though. It happens, regardless of the maker, from time to time. I have fed laquered wolf ammo through ar's, mini's etc.. with few if any problems.

I once bought 2 cases (1000 rounds) of federal gold medal match ammo in 223. I opened the case only to find that the cartridges all had a dent in exactly the same place causing a buldge that wouldnt' allow them to chamber. Federal fixed it, but I was out the inital coin for the ammo until they made it right. I found out later that it was a problem with that lot of ammo in production regarding an unoticed manufacturing error.

swerv512
02-28-2010, 8:06 PM
i've had the same problems with wolf in an AR. turns out that the clear-coat used to prohibit corrosion of their steel cases was gumming up the already tight chamber, causing FTE and FTFs

jchen76@gmail.com
02-28-2010, 8:07 PM
Stuck cases maybe. Wolf tends to be under powered. In my C93 rifle, had to break in about 100 rounds until Wolf cycled reliably.

FS00008
02-28-2010, 8:10 PM
I have no issues with my Mini-14. My buddy shoots wolf exclusively in his Stag, no issues either. Just have to clean it a lot more. I think it comes down to the gun.

IsaacGlass
02-28-2010, 8:11 PM
I ran about 800 rounds of Wolf through my Stag 2T and not one FTF or FTE. Do a search on Stag and Wolf Ammo.
You will see lots of Stag owners can shoot Wolf ammo.

Josh3239
02-28-2010, 8:12 PM
The behaviors of brass and steel in the chamber is much different. Steel cases expand but unlike brass they don't retract which is why steel has more ejection problems than brass. Also steel cases are very rough on your extractor, your extractors will last longer with brass.

railroader
02-28-2010, 8:19 PM
Wolf runs fine in my del-tons but it does seem kinda underpowered. Mark

telcolineman
02-28-2010, 8:48 PM
Wolf runs fine in my 2 AR's, Maybe it is the ammo lot as previously explained

NorcalGSG
02-28-2010, 9:10 PM
Maybe you could try the wolf zinc plated loads? I think they have zinc plating instead of the laquer, which would make the rounds gum up less? The prices look pretty close to the laquered cases. I haven't tried this, I'd be interested to know if its true.

lomalinda
02-28-2010, 9:22 PM
I think the possibility of the case being lousy is the most realistic in this case, as I have had "good" results in prior outings with Wolf. However, I certainly appreciate the great responses that have shed light on other issues that are very relevant as well.

SJgunguy24
02-28-2010, 10:13 PM
I think the possibility of the case being lousy is the most realistic in this case, as I have had "good" results in prior outings with Wolf. However, I certainly appreciate the great responses that have shed light on other issues that are very relevant as well.

Call or email Wolf about your problem, they'll buy the ammo back or replace it. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee warranty.

AlliedArmory
02-28-2010, 10:58 PM
In my setup Wolf is the only brand ammo that will cause it to short cycle. Never had any issues with it FTE, but it would FTF.

jak77
02-28-2010, 11:24 PM
anyone have problems with wolf in their bcm uppers? was thinking of ordering a bunch for some cheap plinking.

VAHEVAHE
02-28-2010, 11:32 PM
Anyone have such a problem? I tried several different uppers with Wolf 556 ammo from the same case and had failures to eject and to feed time and again. From there, I switched to my father's Eagle 556 and there were no issues, so I think the Wolf was the culprit.

Naturally, I have heard all about how Wolf is dirty stuff, but this is a problem I have not encountered before. Anyone run into a similar problem?

Check your ar-15 gas system for leaks. That was the problem i had with my ar-15.

GearHead
02-28-2010, 11:37 PM
Wolf is great stuff. I use it in my gun all the time mixed in with brass stuff (PMC and Centurion) and haven't had a single FTF or FTE to date. In fact, one range session was devoted to simply TRYING to get my gun to jam. Couldn't get it to happen.

God Bless The Mauser
02-28-2010, 11:59 PM
anyone have problems with wolf in their bcm uppers? was thinking of ordering a bunch for some cheap plinking.

I've put 150 or so rounds of Tula which is pretty much the same as wolf through mine and it ran fine.

RAMCHARGER
03-01-2010, 8:58 AM
Wolf, Brown & sivler bear and that stuff in the stapled boxes with the backwards N's is all I used and my Armalite mid length upper never hiccuped once. Same with my prior RRA cabine lenth upper. But the RRA did give me lots of issues with Black Hills stuff. Maybe my chrome lined barrels mayhave helped?

viras
03-01-2010, 9:04 AM
Box O' Truth has an interesting article on Wolf Ammo (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm). The FTE's and FTF's they encountered seemed primer-related.

Anyways, I vote +1 for VAHEVAHE's comment - check your gas system for leaks.

GM_77
03-01-2010, 9:33 AM
anyone have problems with wolf in their bcm uppers? was thinking of ordering a bunch for some cheap plinking.

I've run 1000 rounds of Wolf Surp through my BCM. Had one or two failure to fire but that was the ammo and a couple failure to feed which all came from the same magazine so was the mag.

My setup is with a H buffer as well.

aplinker
03-01-2010, 11:11 AM
Wolf is weak. If you're having short stroking, swap the H for a CAR buffer.

SJgunguy24
03-01-2010, 11:34 AM
Wolf is great stuff. I use it in my gun all the time mixed in with brass stuff (PMC and Centurion) and haven't had a single FTF or FTE to date. In fact, one range session was devoted to simply TRYING to get my gun to jam. Couldn't get it to happen.


Be careful with that, if your shooting the laquered stuff that can end up in the chamber. The brass expands more than the steel cases and that laquer can glue the brass shell in the chamber.

luckystrike
03-01-2010, 11:36 AM
russian guns like steel ammo like wolf, AR and variants only like brass

Infidel
03-01-2010, 11:56 AM
russian guns like steel ammo like wolf, AR and variants only like brass

Not True I ran Wolf, Silver Bear, and Brown Bear Exclusively through my AR until recently. The only reason I switched to brass cased ammo was for reloading purposes.

*Edit

BTW my brother has the same issue with his Stag upper not liking steel cased ammo. However, it's not a big issue to him because he primarily shoots brass cased ammo.

SJgunguy24
03-01-2010, 11:57 AM
russian guns like steel ammo like wolf, AR and variants only like brass

I wouldn't say that, but one might need to play around to find the perfect set up. AR's can be finicky anyway so your statement isn't very valid.

C_1
03-01-2010, 12:35 PM
Brass would be the way to go, but if your AR runs with Wolf, BB, or SB, then thats more shooting for you. Just make sure to clean the chamber well after every range trip.

Grakken
03-01-2010, 1:11 PM
russian guns like steel ammo like wolf, AR and variants only like brass

Oh? I disagree.

To the OP: Cant tell you why your rifle won't shoot the steel but I have seen plenty of AR's eat it like hotcakes. I think it has to do with the particular upper but really don't know why some AR's are finicky.

CAL.BAR
03-01-2010, 2:31 PM
Sorry to say that it works just fine in my Colt AR 15 HBAR (RAW)

mif_slim
03-01-2010, 2:39 PM
Wolf is weak. If you're having short stroking, swap the H for a CAR buffer.

Thats the answer right there.

All these other folks talking about Wolf ammo being the culprit are either bias or wack in the head. If your AR or any gun cant function with ANY TYPE of ammo for it then you need to fix it or sell it.

My upper had issues with Wolf ammo short stroking so I changed the buffer spring and it solved the issue. Wolf ammo produces lower pressure so it can short stroke your AR. Is it Wolf that sucks? No, you just need your gun to adapt to feed all ammo.

FeuerFrei
03-01-2010, 2:40 PM
Use a chamber brush regularly if shooting Wolf ammo in your AR.
Done.
If it ain't dirty and you are using good mags then it's mechanical. I have found this to be true for my AR experience anyway.

gemini1
03-01-2010, 3:38 PM
russian guns like steel ammo like wolf, AR and variants only like brass

Wrong. My BCM middy with a 10/20 promag eats wolf every time I pull the trigger. Never had any issues to date.

Isaiah4Autumn
03-01-2010, 3:55 PM
install this (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=9949/Product/AR_15_M16_D_FENDER_D_RING)and it will help you alot with extraction issues...I would say make sure you ar is clean and lubed up as well to help with the feeding issues

CGK60
03-02-2010, 6:04 AM
Used wolf ammo in two Blackthorne uppers and never had any problems.

Nookieaki
03-02-2010, 6:37 AM
Anyone have such a problem? I tried several different uppers with Wolf 556 ammo from the same case and had failures to eject and to feed time and again. From there, I switched to my father's Eagle 556 and there were no issues, so I think the Wolf was the culprit.

Naturally, I have heard all about how Wolf is dirty stuff, but this is a problem I have not encountered before. Anyone run into a similar problem?


Some AR's shoot wolf fine, but mine is very picky. It HATES wolf.

ledman
03-02-2010, 7:40 AM
My ar doesnt like wolf either. Ar chambers are really tight and wolf being steel cased expands to much and fails to eject. I can get about 20 rounds out on a cold rifle then it heats up and I get a fte. I use wolf in all my sks rifles with no issues as my buddy uses wolf in his mini 14 with no issues. I use brass cased only now in my ar and it will shoot all day with no issues with brass cased ammo.

PatriotnMore
03-02-2010, 7:48 AM
I have two self built ARs and they eat a consistent diet of Wolf, no problems.

racky
03-02-2010, 7:51 AM
never had a problem with wolf.

Koolpsych
03-02-2010, 8:28 AM
I have used about 100 rounds of wolf and had not one ftf or fte. Not the cleanest ammo but for the price how can I complain!

Dragunov
03-02-2010, 9:56 AM
Anyone have such a problem? I tried several different uppers with Wolf 556 ammo from the same case and had failures to eject and to feed time and again. From there, I switched to my father's Eagle 556 and there were no issues, so I think the Wolf was the culprit.

Naturally, I have heard all about how Wolf is dirty stuff, but this is a problem I have not encountered before. Anyone run into a similar problem?

My AR doesn't like reloads either. Haven't used Wolf, don't plan to.
Had my rifle checked out, was told tolerances were too tight to shoot "strange reloads" from it.

Commie ammo, Commie gun.

'Merican ammo, 'Merican gun.

RANDO
03-02-2010, 10:20 AM
my AR shoots anything but Wolf. It fires it but then I have to cycle the round myself.

jak77
03-02-2010, 10:34 AM
what AR do you have?

lazuris
03-02-2010, 12:31 PM
Wolf works great its not the coating that causes issues with wold its the steel case. The steel case does not fully expand like brass and as such there is gas blow buy that creats a ring around the chamber and slowly builds up. Finally the chamber will be too tight and you will have extraction issues. I run wolf all the time by adding a brass round every 5 rounds and it acts like a scrub brush. Flawless performance after that.

mif_slim
03-02-2010, 1:03 PM
my AR shoots anything but Wolf. It fires it but then I have to cycle the round myself.

Your buffer spring is too tight. Change it to a carbine and I bet wolf will cycle. If not buy another buffer spring and cut it a few inches short. Your AR will cycle. Like I said before. If your gun doesnt shoot all ammo, its mechanical. Not ammo related. I should make a video on this... haha

50 Freak
03-02-2010, 1:18 PM
I have litterally fed my ARs thousand (and I mean like 10,000+) rounds of various Wolf (both laquer and powder coat stuff). I'd say the reliability is lower than the brass stuff. But the fact is, the price savings on using Wolf versus the "good stuff" has allowed me to concentrate on something much more important....MY TRAINING.

If I were planning to go into battle, would I use Wolf...HELL NO!!!, for training it's the cat meow.

Now getting to your question, I find Wolf to be Dirty as Hell, and low powered. But someone brought up this before, if you gun won't work with Wolf, you should look to fixing your gun. A military type rifle should work with all types of ammo, and if it won't work with cheap dirty readily available Wolf, it's not something you want to rely on in a SHTF scenario.

A second thing and I find this is a biggy, I find Wolf especially hard on the extraction/extractor, I'd invest in a good extractor for the AR, to make sure it pulls those empties out.

drummerdude1188
03-02-2010, 1:20 PM
I have litterally fed my ARs thousand (and I mean like 10,000+) rounds of various Wolf (both laquer and powder coat stuff). I'd say the reliability is lower than the brass stuff. But the fact is, the price savings on using Wolf versus the "good stuff" has allowed me to concentrate on something much more important....MY TRAINING.

If I were planning to go into battle, would I use Wolf...HELL NO!!!, for training it's the cat meow.

Now getting to your question, I find Wolf to be Dirty as Hell, and low powered. But someone brought up this before, if you gun won't work with Wolf, you should look to fixing your gun. A military type rifle should work with all types of ammo, and if it won't work with cheap dirty readily available Wolf, it's not something you want to rely on in a SHTF scenario.

A second thing and I find this is a biggy, I find Wolf especially hard on the extraction/extractor, I'd invest in a good extractor for the AR, to make sure it pulls those empties out.

Bingo!! its a military rifle it should be able to use all types of ammo. The problem lies in your gun, not the ammo.

Patrick Aherne
03-02-2010, 1:39 PM
I have litterally fed my ARs thousand (and I mean like 10,000+) rounds of various Wolf (both laquer and powder coat stuff). I'd say the reliability is lower than the brass stuff. But the fact is, the price savings on using Wolf versus the "good stuff" has allowed me to concentrate on something much more important....MY TRAINING.

If I were planning to go into battle, would I use Wolf...HELL NO!!!, for training it's the cat meow.

Now getting to your question, I find Wolf to be Dirty as Hell, and low powered. But someone brought up this before, if you gun won't work with Wolf, you should look to fixing your gun. A military type rifle should work with all types of ammo, and if it won't work with cheap dirty readily available Wolf, it's not something you want to rely on in a SHTF scenario.

A second thing and I find this is a biggy, I find Wolf especially hard on the extraction/extractor, I'd invest in a good extractor for the AR, to make sure it pulls those empties out.

True mil-spec rifles, like Colt's and Knight's, will not run on Wolf because their gas port sizes are smaller. M193 and M855 run hotter than Wolf and if your gun is running on Wolf, like Bushmasters do, it is probably because your rifle/carbine is over-gassed. Bushmaster and some other low-quality manufacturers, run large gas ports that dump a ton of gas into the rifle, which means it will run with low-powered ammo, but it will also pound the heck out of your rifle, causing excessive parts wear.

There are other low-quality, non-milspec, rifle makes that have problems with Wolf, primarily because their chamber specs are not 5.56mm NATO. These companies use a tighter chamber, so Bubba can go out to the range and plunk 5 rounds, slow fire over ten minutes, into a couple of inches at 100 yards and then brag about the accuracy of his rifle. However, if you run one of these .223 chambered rifles hard, like 300 rounds in an hour, you will run into problems.

As far as extractors and wear goes, you are making a choice: spend less on ammo and replace my extractor every 5k rounds, or spend significantly more on ammo and replace my extractor at 5k-7k rounds. I think it is more important to pick a good extractor, like Colt's or BCM, and perform preventative maintenance than to worry about mild steel cases wearing the forged extractor more than brass. Then again, if you have a hobby gun, i.e. non-milspec, like the Oly I have, expect your cast/potmetal extractor to wear out on round 1-5000, depending on the weather.

Changing buffers and springs to make your rifle work with any ammo may make it wear out bolt components faster. I set my rifle up to run what I carry for duty, M193 or Hornady TAP. For practice ammo, I choose the cheapest ammo that will cycle the rifle reliably.

CWM4A1
03-02-2010, 1:50 PM
My two cents.

1. Wolf is weak as someone said it already. You might want to reduce buffer weight to get weak ammo to cycle more reliably. This will address the short stroke/FTF issues.

2. I have not seen Wolf .223 ammo with lacquer coating for a long time, and even with that, the lacquer is NOT the culprit to jam up your work.

3. Many may experience the FTE issue, and I will separate to two topics: Failure to Eject and Failure to Extract. For Failure to eject, it's most likely due to the weak nature of wolf ammo addressed in #1 above.

As for FTEx, it could be combination of the following issues:
a) Tight (non-Mil Spec) chamber without chrome lining.
b) Property of the steel casing:
i. Steel case not expand fast enough, allow hot and dirty gas to creep-in between casing and foul up the chamber.
ii. Steel case not retract after expand, which with a foul up chamber, steel case will fire-foam itself into the fouling, causing great difficulties to extract. I see a lot of these with rim being completely torn off and will require a cleaning rod to punch out the stuck case. People often mistake the black flaky stuff that’s on the punch-out stuck casing to the polymer coating of the new Wolf ammo, but in reality that is the carbon fouling that your steel case just fire-foam itself into.

c). With very early steel case ammo that’s lacquer coated, there is also a red bullet sealant which was believed that would melt and act as glue when gun is hot. Combine that with the property of steel case, it makes thing even more interesting.

So if the reason to shoot Wolf ammo is to save a few cents, you probably want to make sure that your gun has mil-spec chrome line chamber, use lighter weight buffer especially if your gas system is mid-length or longer, and make sure to use chamber brush to clean your chamber when you get home.

For those who claim “I’ve never had a problem with Wolf”, that means you probably have not shoot enough in one single session. Try to shoot up to 1k round in one session without cleaning, I’d say 90%+ chance your gun will experience FTEx at some point.

One last thing: Not all manufactures are created equal even if they all said their chamber follow mil spec. My experience: With Bushmaster barrel I was able to shoot up to 500rds before starting to experience FTEx, but with a new CMMG barrel I can only go about 100rds. Some chamber are indeed more tolerant than the other when it comes to Wolf ammo.

jchen76@gmail.com
03-02-2010, 2:15 PM
I have strange issues with my Century C93 (HK 93) clone. I initially thought that it's not the lacquer that causes issues, but the powder, rifle tolerances etc.

When I was breaking in the C93, I was using Hornady Training ammo in .223, that's steel cased and lacquer coated. Figure between the fluted chamber and blowback nature of the rifle, would not have issues with lacquer ammo. Cool day, shooting on bench in the shade in December.

After 20 rounds, I had to FTE with Hornady. Had to field strip and hit the charging hard to remove the spent case. I waited for the rifle to cool down, shot again, 2 rounds later same issue. Tried 2 more rounds, same FTE. The original color of the case was dark brown, when I checked after firing, it was grey.

Shot some Wolf black box (polymer coating), Silver Bear, PMC, Centurion brass, and some other rounds with no issues. Put about 100 rounds or so.

Did shoot some Brown Bear as a test which has same case as Hornady, and right away had some FTE issue. Switched back to Wolf without cleaning, the rifle shot fine.

GM_77
03-02-2010, 2:31 PM
Your buffer spring is too tight. Change it to a carbine and I bet wolf will cycle. If not buy another buffer spring and cut it a few inches short. Your AR will cycle. Like I said before. If your gun doesnt shoot all ammo, its mechanical. Not ammo related. I should make a video on this... haha

lol. You should, this comes up quite often! :D

Vanguard
03-02-2010, 2:51 PM
I ran about 800 rounds of Wolf through my Stag 2T and not one FTF or FTE. Do a search on Stag and Wolf Ammo.
You will see lots of Stag owners can shoot Wolf ammo.

Yup, I've fired quite a bit of Wolf 5.56 through my Stag 2T also. Not a single failure.

C9X19
03-02-2010, 10:56 PM
Be careful with that, if your shooting the laquered stuff that can end up in the chamber. The brass expands more than the steel cases and that laquer can glue the brass shell in the chamber.

This is solved by using a rigid cleaning rod to knock the case out. Not a big deal on the range...could be in a training class.

drifts1
03-02-2010, 11:13 PM
I've put about 400 rounds of laquered wolf thru my mini-14, maybe about 4-5 stuck cases. I now stick to brass when shooting 5.56.

mif_slim
03-03-2010, 2:39 PM
lol. You should, this comes up quite often! :D

haha, I made one but I didnt know it was so windy and the camera sucked to bad that you cant hear a thing or see a thing! But here it is anyways, I'll make a better one later. lol:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sPYj18IPKHw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sPYj18IPKHw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I still put it up because it was cool how the case flew and hit the camera! hahaha...TWICE!