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SVRider
02-28-2010, 6:17 PM
In the wake of Katrina and most recently Haiti and Chile, I think disaster preparedness has been once again brought to the forefront for many people.

It was recently brought to my attention that we have a couple groups of very close friends for whom the entirety of their disaster preparedness plan is “going to my house”. This of course creates a multitude of problems both current and potentially in the future should something happen. I felt it needed to be addressed immediately.

I have broached the subject generally on numerous occasions with our friends as I would like to share some of the knowledge I have gained both here and from other resources and to encourage them to be prepared (Boy Scout’s motto!). After realizing that for a few their plan is simply to come to our house, I have begun to have more serious and thought provoking discussions with them.

Of course I do not want to hurt our friendships, but their thinking is both unreasonable and unfair. Preparations for a family of 4 for a month, will only keep two such families for two weeks. If a third family is added, only 10 days. With all due respect, my responsibility is to my family, not to provide for theirs.

I have begun to distribute to them the list I compiled in the other thread:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=229061
When asking one set of friends whom I have known since college what their plan was in case of emergency, they replied to come our house. When I asked what they intended to bring with them, I was taken aback by their reply of simply “our children”. I was somewhat upset by this reply. I have begun to try to get them to think in earnest of the realities that may exist. What if you are not at home when a disaster strikes? What about if the roads are impassable? What if we have evacuated and are no longer at our house? I feel bad in a way as the wife is a school principal and should have some disaster preparedness background from her work. I think she feels there is some need, however her husband (who is an intelligent man….Master’s Degree Engineer, MBA) is also somewhat carefree in attitude and thinks nothing will happen. He is Hawaiian, and I figure the laid back lifestyle growing up may have something to do with his thinking.

I was quite surprised by the reaction of my wife who said, “We prepared, they did not, why should we have to take care of them?”. Although this sounds a bit cold, it is very true and I was pleased that my wife shared this feeling and understanding as there may come a time when very difficult decisions need to be made that may involve people who are very close to us.

I consider myself most fortunate in that I have a wife who:
1) First and foremost loves me and our children to death
2) Does not think I am some kind of nutcase for making preparations…quite to the contrary, she is quite thankful (which she has told me directly on many occasions) and knows that should something happen, our family will be for the most part taken care of.
3) Shares my feeling of putting our well-being and that of our children first
4) Understands and is prepared to accept the fact that in dire times, where others are concerned, difficult decisions may need to be made for the safety and well-being of our family.

This topic has been covered in other threads, but I think it bears enough importance to discuss it once again. It is a very delicate subject…one that may potentially cripple or end friendships, but in the interest of open and honest discussion, along with realistic expectations, one that needs to be discussed with any such thinking friends and soon. If they are truly your friends, they may be
hurt at first, but should understand the realities of the situation.

Don’t get me wrong. I am all for planning and working together, however this is just a supplement to your own household plan. Tell me what you are planning and we can figure out between us how to best manage and support each other. No plan at all other than living off of what I have prepared will get shot down in short order and the sooner you know that all the better for you to start making preparations of your own.

From what I recall growing up, there were lots of childhood stories with lessons about the ones who chose to prepare vs. the ones who chose to play when the sun was shining and all was well….it seems that for many, the lessons of those childhood stories were missed…

For any in a similar situation, I strongly suggest that you clarify the potential situation and your position in short order....

.

SVRider
02-28-2010, 6:28 PM
I just showed this to my wife.....

....as she was reading, she commented "this sounds just like what we are experiencing" (not realizing at first that I was the one that wrote it!) LOL

ChaparralCommando
02-28-2010, 6:37 PM
Of course I do not want to hurt our friendships, but their thinking is both unreasonable and unfair. Preparations for a family of 4 for a month, will only keep two such families for two weeks. If a third family is added, only 10 days. With all due respect, my responsibility is to my family, not to provide for theirs.

.

I agree with you. There are a lot of freeloaders out there, expecting handouts from friends, organizations, or the government.

SVRider
02-28-2010, 6:43 PM
I agree with you. There are a lot of freeloaders out there, expecting handouts from friends, organizations, or the government.

Don't get me wrong....these people are definitely not freeloaders. Their generocity surprises me at times. They do however in this case have unrealistic expectations and I am doing my best to maintain friendships while getting them to honestly contemplate their decisions....

97F1504RAD
02-28-2010, 7:14 PM
If it ends a friendship then that friendship need not exists in my opinion. If they cannot understand and take measures them selves to help protect and prepare for their own family why should you bear that burden?

Kendo671
02-28-2010, 7:58 PM
I'm on the same boat SV, everytime I mention to my close knit group of friends the reality of SHTF scenario. The first thing for them to reply is "we're coming over to your house".....I try to politely explain that option isn't practical. My food / water load is just enough for my family. Ultimately the head of their household is responsible for their supply. I can help them now with gathering information on where to get their supply load and thats all I can really do.

gravedigger
02-28-2010, 9:17 PM
Yep. The old "When SHTF, we're going to Joe's house! He has food, and guns and ammo, and tools, and a generator, and security cameras and motion sensors, and a swimming pool with 17,000 gallons of potable water (after filtering) for "our" needs..." Uh huh.

I LOVE your response to them: "What are YOU going to bring with you?" Mind if I borrow that?

Tell your friends that you'll be glad to ASSIGN them a task for group survival, and work out their shifts for the 24-Hour watch and so forth, provided they send you a check each week starting NOW, for $nn.nn to cover the costs you will incur to stock up on the extra food, water, fuel, toilet paper, deodorant, toothpaste and other hygiene products, medical supplies, ammo etc. you will need so you can provide for their care and defense when they come running to your door with rioting zombies in tow. Also tell them they'd better be meeting you at a range now and then to prove they can handle a weapon. You're not going to let some Bozo friend fire off a thousand .223 rounds into trees! If they're there to survive, they'd damned well better be able to hit their target!

The Twilight Zone broached this subject several times in their old TV series. One family, fully prepared for the worst, finds UNprepared neighbors pounding on their steel fortified bunker door during an air raid drill. The drama of having to say, "GO AWAY!" knowing that you love and care about these people, but you are not able to take on the needs of an entire community, can be intense.

Orson Wells proved this point so eloquently decades ago, when he broadcast "War of the Worlds" over the radio. Neighbors quickly found out who their friends were. They also discovered just how unprepared they were for a disaster.

Even TAXI! had an episode about this. I loved Louie's response when Alex asked him, "What about the little girl who comes knocking at your door, crying for food and water, and a warm place to sleep?" He responded, "She's bumper bait!" Of course, Louie learns through the course of the show that even HE cannot have a heart that cold and callous.

I have one very good friend up in Camarillo. I've been nagging him to BUY A GUN, and learn how to use it! He is a bit of a kum-ba-yah pacifist in some respects, and just responds, "Oh Joe. You know ... things can be worked out. People negotiate. They barter. Communities pull together. You don't have to just shoot everyone!" He is one of the people who has expressed his desire to show up at my door with NO prior preparation. When he discovers that his community's idea of pulling together is to jointly ransack his undefended home and take everything of value, I'm sure he'll be pulling into my driveway with a look of shock and defeat on his face, if they haven't also taken his car, and his wife.

You have inspired me! I'm going to write a letter to all of my beloved friends and neighbors, and tell them, "Get your act together!" I'm going to tell them that if they're going to keep their heads buried in the sand while Obama drags America down into Socialism and Marxism, thinking that they can just show up at my door when there is no other place to go, and think I'm going to feed them, clothe them, defend them and support them ... they're going to be sorely disappointed.

My duty is to my mom and my sister, and maybe my crazy uncle in Chicago and maybe my mom's cousin. Although she is financially comfortable, she DID vote for Obama, and I doubt that she has taken any SHTF counter-measures. She asked me to stop sending her emails about Obama before the election. She was certain it was the right decision and felt that her "cousin's son" (me) was just not culturally aware enough to know what was best for America. If it is ever TEOTWAWKI, I'm not going to feel a whole lot of compassion for her, since she insisted that Obama was the only answer.

My friends? Well, if they're passing through and just need a couple of bottles of water or something, I'll be there. But if they think they're going to plug into my family's life support, they're wrong.

SVRider
02-28-2010, 9:54 PM
For anyone thinking post disaster...everything will be just fine, tell them to check the news:

Santiago

- Looters ransacked stores in the quake-hit Chilean city of Conception on Sunday, television images showed, a day after an 8.8-magnitude earthquake hammered the country and killed at least 300 people.

Looters were seen carrying away boxes with food as well as washing machines and plasma TVs from stores in the city before police intervened.

"We have to eat something," an unidentified woman told a TV reporter.

Police deployed to block hundreds of people from pillaging two warehouses in the city, according to the TV.

- AFP

http://www.news24.com/Content/World/News/1073/3d1430f62d8646aab8f926144fccb771/28-02-2010-03-53/Chile_Looting_in_Conception

Yup...you have to eat something alright, and I'm sure that Plasma will be mighty tasty.

I'm not really in to the whole TEOTWAWKI theory....not sure I'd want to live in a post-apocalyptic world. But in a more realisitic sense, ask your friends.....

Post Katrina...How long did it take recue/relief to get to the people that needed it? People huddled in the Superdome while crimes were being commited upon them by other refugees. Remember this happened in one of the most developed nations in the world and to its own people.

Haiti....the whole world is helping....but how long did it take them to organize and get people and supplies down there?

The "experts" say have 72 hours of supplies for your household, but I'm figuring you had better plan for at least two weeks.

As for firearms, I've got one friend that I've known since high school. He is married to a woman who is pretty anti-firearms in the house (fear for the kids safety....like the kids could crack a safe). Anyway, he was finally convinced to the point of buying a pistol (from a listing I found here!). He is also starting to make preparations and I'm happy for him. His wife does not know about his recent purchase yet, but at least it sounds like she is starting to come around with regards to the preparations.

....and a friend of mine told me he saw a shirt explaining the acronym O.B.A.M.A.......

"Oops, Big A** Mistake America"! LOL

Mr10
03-01-2010, 7:43 AM
I so agreed with you!! I have tried to tell my friends and family about being prepare, but it goes through one ear and out the other....
OR they think im thinking too much. But when things really start going wrong can i really just not care about them when they come knocking?? Hard decision for me...

MudCamper
03-01-2010, 9:26 AM
If you can't tell them they had better prepare, and they had better contribute to the effort, and that if they don't they are nothing but no good freeloaders, then they are not friends worth having. This should all be obvious.

Tell your friends that you'll be glad to ASSIGN them a task for group survival, and work out their shifts for the 24-Hour watch and so forth, provided they send you a check each week starting NOW, for $nn.nn to cover the costs you will incur to stock up on the extra food, water, fuel, toilet paper, deodorant, toothpaste and other hygiene products, medical supplies, ammo etc. you will need so you can provide for their care and defense when they come running to your door with rioting zombies in tow. Also tell them they'd better be meeting you at a range now and then to prove they can handle a weapon. You're not going to let some Bozo friend fire off a thousand .223 rounds into trees! If they're there to survive, they'd damned well better be able to hit their target!

This!

stilagrrl
03-01-2010, 10:16 AM
Personally, I don't think they really mean they're going to your house in a disaster. OK, some might, but the majority of people tend to use this to deflect. For those folks, the idea of prepping gives them a lot of anxiety. Let's face it, it can be quite overwhelming, barrels and barrels of water, a garage full of food, lighting, heating, cooking, communications, self-defense, first aid...it's a very involved process. There's also the anxiety of having to accept that a disaster can happen and what that will mean to their current way of life.

I don't know how to solve this problem. For my best friend and her family, I've done things like purchased them a 55 gallon water barrel, a Coleman camp stove, some LED lanterns and so forth and promised to spend some time with them this spring putting together some food storage and such.

Oh and lastly, there was an old Twilight Zone episode called "The Shelter"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swGpvc5JdJU

that dealt with this same issue.

VictorFranko
03-01-2010, 10:22 AM
Whenever I have tried to explain to my closest friends the need for disaster preparedness, especially the need for potable water here in SoCal, I let them know WELL IN ADVANCE of it coming up, that if they do not heed my advice, as much as I may love them, WSHTF I will have NOTHING for them except a big "I TOLD YOU SO".

Nadir_E
03-01-2010, 12:01 PM
Gravedigger and VictorFranko are on the right track (i.e. tell them *explicitly* where you stand) but it's in *my* nature to be a little more diplomatic about it. :D

My sense is that rather than asking them what they'll bring with them, tell them what you expect them to bring when they "bug out" to your location. Otherwise, be clear, it'll be starvation rations at best, because (and who could fault you for it?) your family comes first, every time.

I think the approach of, "Send me $x,xxx and I'll lay in supplies for you" is actually a pretty good one - it let's them take Step One toward preparing, even if they're not doing the list-making / supplies-buying themselves. Obviously, it's good for you, too - that much more in the way of supplies at *your* place :) and possibly deeper discounts if you're buying in bulk.

Telling your friends to F-off over a disaster that hasn't happened yet strikes me as short-sighted. Better to take them by the hand and turn them into a valuable ally than to turn them away *now.* You may have to turn them away later, but use the time between now and then convert them instead.

my $0.02...
-N

gn3hz3ku1*
03-01-2010, 12:34 PM
my friends told me they plan to come to my house.. i told them if they do bring food and water so i can rob them of it :)

MudCamper
03-01-2010, 1:23 PM
Oh and lastly, there was an old Twilight Zone episode call "The Shelter"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swGpvc5JdJU

that dealt with this same issue.

I never saw that one! Thanks for posting it.

mschliebs
03-01-2010, 1:31 PM
I no longer tell anyone that I can sustain a lot of people for more than a month and, I truly hope some people have forgotten when the time comes. My cache is in an industrial building a short distance away from home. Living in a neighborhood of mostly apartments and condos is not going to be a safe place to be after the fact.

It astounds me when I ask “what will you do if the Big One strikes?” Many, many people respond that they will hurry down to the store and stock up; or, I’ll go to my mothers house, I have an atm card, or... I’ll steal if I have to.

Employees are instructed to return to work if they can't get home immediately even if it is during off time and they are with family. After things calm down a bit maybe they can get home. Friends who have been waylaid and unable to get home, will be eligible for entry.

Those eligible for entry will have to have something of value to offer to the tribe like hunting rabbits, possum, dove and pigeon with a sling shot, air rifle or snare (use a gun and you may as well light a signal fire), recycling wash water (yes, I said recycling wash water) borrowing gas and diesel, scrounging fire wood, building things without power tools,.....

The transition road from the I-10 and the 57 freeway was shut down for 10 days following a recent mudslide. How long will it take to open the Cajon pass; clear the overpass debris from the I-10 / I-15 freeways?? Who knows. One thing is for certain though: groceries will not be delivered to your favorite fast food drive-through anytime soon.

mschliebs
03-01-2010, 1:41 PM
I just reviewed the other comments again and concluded that maybe, just maybe, some of the posters here might want to reconsider what defines a good or close friend if they have "friends" who will gladly mooch off them instead of preparing before the fact, after SHTF.

Grasshopper and the Ants. Aesop

gn3hz3ku1*
03-01-2010, 1:46 PM
friends < family sorry guys...

doodoostain
03-01-2010, 1:56 PM
after joining this forum, my wife and i spent a great deal of money to prepare for disaster. in the process of preparing, we realized that we are very fortunate to have the disposable income to buy all these things to prepare and never touch again, to ensure they are there when we need them. after giving thanks for our blessings, we realized that much of our family does not have the financial leeway to buy things that aren't needed immediately.

as a result, we decided that we would put together kits for every family member. one full kit for the home with a full first aid kit, supplies and a few food items and one backpack for their car with a basic first aid kit, space blankets, fire starters, protein bars, rope, multitool, etc. we told them that next time they hit costco, they ought to get some extra food supplies and put them in the home kit. they were the most expensive christmas presents i've ever bought my family.

but at the end of the day, my wife and i feel better that we are not the only ones prepared in case of a disaster.

MudCamper
03-01-2010, 2:38 PM
after joining this forum, my wife and i spent a great deal of money to prepare for disaster. in the process of preparing, we realized that we are very fortunate to have the disposable income to buy all these things to prepare and never touch again, to ensure they are there when we need them. after giving thanks for our blessings, we realized that much of our family does not have the financial leeway to buy things that aren't needed immediately.

as a result, we decided that we would put together kits for every family member. one full kit for the home with a full first aid kit, supplies and a few food items and one backpack for their car with a basic first aid kit, space blankets, fire starters, protein bars, rope, multitool, etc. we told them that next time they hit costco, they ought to get some extra food supplies and put them in the home kit. they were the most expensive christmas presents i've ever bought my family.

but at the end of the day, my wife and i feel better that we are not the only ones prepared in case of a disaster.

That's mighty nice of ya. Some of them may even be thinking you're nuts, but will sure thank you if they ever need the kits.

This is a good thread. Good topic to ponder. My biggest weakness at this point are not my friends, but my in-laws. There's a whole bunch of people there who are not the slightest bit prepared that I many end up having to support.

doodoostain
03-01-2010, 2:55 PM
i got the in laws kits too because i DO NOT want them coming over in a crisis.

That's mighty nice of ya. Some of them may even be thinking you're nuts, but will sure thank you if they ever need the kits.

This is a good thread. Good topic to ponder. My biggest weakness at this point are not my friends, but my in-laws. There's a whole bunch of people there who are not the slightest bit prepared that I many end up having to support.

jkcerda
03-01-2010, 8:14 PM
after joining this forum, my wife and i spent a great deal of money to prepare for disaster. in the process of preparing, we realized that we are very fortunate to have the disposable income to buy all these things to prepare and never touch again, to ensure they are there when we need them. after giving thanks for our blessings, we realized that much of our family does not have the financial leeway to buy things that aren't needed immediately.

as a result, we decided that we would put together kits for every family member. one full kit for the home with a full first aid kit, supplies and a few food items and one backpack for their car with a basic first aid kit, space blankets, fire starters, protein bars, rope, multitool, etc. we told them that next time they hit costco, they ought to get some extra food supplies and put them in the home kit. they were the most expensive christmas presents i've ever bought my family.

but at the end of the day, my wife and i feel better that we are not the only ones prepared in case of a disaster.

wanna adopt a midget :D

Gigan
03-07-2010, 10:18 PM
This subject is one of the reason I dont discuss my preparedness details with others that arn't like minded, Im hoping to avoid multiple liabilities. It saves me from having to tell people "Love you but your not welcome here after said disaster" sad but true. I do however encourage many to be prepared.

Gigan
03-07-2010, 10:22 PM
plus if they do show up you can always eat them once they have outlived their welcome :eek::rofl:

sickboy774
03-08-2010, 12:12 AM
I told people to watch "After Armageddon" on the History Channel. Talk about a rude awakening for a lot of them! Since some knew I owned firearms they wanted to know my take on it. I told them that I would be one of the guys in the small community blocking the road and keeping them out. lol

wjc
03-09-2010, 6:29 PM
plus if they do show up you can always eat them once they have outlived their welcome :eek::rofl:

BRAAAAIIINS! :D

Southwest Chuck
11-17-2012, 7:19 PM
I know this is an old thread, but it's still very relevant. Here is a link to a current posting (11/17/12) on Survival Blog that deals with this exact subject.
http://www.survivalblog.com/2012/11/the-folly-of-hubris----a-cautionary-tale-by-mrs-s.html

SVRider
11-17-2012, 7:25 PM
I know this is an old thread, but it's still very relevant. Here is a link to a current posting (11/17/12) on Survival Blog that deals with this exact subject.
http://www.survivalblog.com/2012/11/the-folly-of-hubris----a-cautionary-tale-by-mrs-s.html

Wow....I'm surprised you remembered about this post.

You are right....a delicate topic. I'm now reading the link you posted.

I'll have to find my consolidated BOB/BIB lists and bump it too if it will help anyone that didn't see it before

Los
11-17-2012, 8:19 PM
SV rider and others thanks for touching on topics like this. Even if there aren't many replies I can say it's been read and useful info digested

BruceR
11-17-2012, 8:51 PM
It might make an impression on the friends if a barter arrangement is made with them now: One party can contribute "survival insurance" if the other party contributes health, major medical, and life insurance. They will immediately balk at putting others on their insurance policies and may well decide they can handle their own survival preparations. At least they can see we put our preparations on an equal footing to our other insurance needs.

Cali-Shooter
11-17-2012, 9:23 PM
I tell those that talk about freeloading off of those that actually prepare for disaster for themselves and their families that if those freeloaders come to my house, if they're my friends or family and are willing to help or bring things to the table, they can eat food, but if they are none of the above, they might end up eating lead, and I got plenty of that to spare and will happily oblige.

Lifeon2whls
11-17-2012, 9:59 PM
This is a new thread for me but I don't tell anyone else what, if anything, I am doing to prepare. I would help friends out if they showed up but they wouldn't be there because they thought I was stocked, they'd be there because they really needed help.

I plan to look as unprepared as possible to my fellow neighbors, etc so they don't think I have anything to offer them. All about being that person/house no one notices.

Lone_Gunman
11-17-2012, 10:27 PM
Wow, old thread. My friends are welcome to come to my house. Of course if its bad enough to bring them to my house I won't be there and chances are, unless something went terribly wrong, the bulk of my supplies won't either.

chris
11-18-2012, 6:52 AM
For anyone thinking post disaster...everything will be just fine, tell them to check the news:

Santiago

- Looters ransacked stores in the quake-hit Chilean city of Conception on Sunday, television images showed, a day after an 8.8-magnitude earthquake hammered the country and killed at least 300 people.

Looters were seen carrying away boxes with food as well as washing machines and plasma TVs from stores in the city before police intervened.

"We have to eat something," an unidentified woman told a TV reporter.

Police deployed to block hundreds of people from pillaging two warehouses in the city, according to the TV.

- AFP

http://www.news24.com/Content/World/News/1073/3d1430f62d8646aab8f926144fccb771/28-02-2010-03-53/Chile_Looting_in_Conception



this is what we here in california will see after the BIG ONE hits. and it is coming. that is the one thing we should be prepared for and that is no :TFH: thing either. as for what will happen in your area all depends. but being prepared for it is an individual responsibility.

and we all know that there are millions that are not. i do what i can when i can afford to get stuff. since these are tough times we are in and fellow CG'rs are experiencing it as well. do what you can.

as to having neighbors and friends come over to do tasks you never know what can happen. i happen to have some Samoan neighbors and they are the best to have IMO. so i would help them in 2 seconds just because i have known them for many years.

it is possible for neighbors to band together for a period of time after an event like an earthquake to survive until things get back to normal.


but i have been wondering about something like paying bills after an major natural disaster you know mortgage, electricity, cc bills, gas, water and so on. heck even going to work. i don't think that the above companies would forgive missing payments for a disaster like that. i'm not alone when it comes to having enough money on the side to cover expenses like that for lets say a month.

i'm sure your job would understand why people cannot get to work. but they sure as hell won't pay you for not being there.

cannon
11-18-2012, 8:39 AM
I really don't discuss it. My Mom and Sister know they are welcome if they bring their supplies with them.

A very long term friend is invited but other than that I just quietly add food, water, trade bait etc. every month.

Sadly if you do show up without anything to offer you won't be getting in. Well, unless you are female, young, pretty, eager to "please" and my wife has changed her mind on that me having a harem thing. (I just asked her and she said. No. Dang it!)

If it does all go wrong I won't be sitting in a well lit house or BBQing in the front yard either. I'll look like another victim waiting for the Gov. to save my silly butt. ;)

bigcasino
11-18-2012, 10:10 AM
I have a very close friend that I ask about how prepped his family was and he said they had nothing. Later I was at his house in the garage and see all the food and drinks and bottle water his wife has from buying in bulk ( she loves a good sale and to stock up) and said "wow that is a good food storage" he had never though of it like that before we talked about it a he has about 3 to 4 weeks of food and about 2 weeks of water for his family of 3, then he decided that with his camping gear and military gear that he was better prepared than most. We have now talked a lot about this and as my house is better located for defense and survival there plan is to come here and bring there supply but if something happen I will bug out to there house. Its nice to have back up plans. If needed we both have 4x4s and we can always bug out to the Mts or desert or something.

I have a ex roommate that said if anything ever happens she was bring her family to my house and I told her that she was welcome to come (as she has skills that could be used for survival) but if she though that she would show up with her mom and dad and 3 sister 2 brothers and there 8 kids I cant take all them in there is no way and I would turn them away.

I have 1 other close friend that I think would be a big help in any type of disaster and have told her if SHTF to grab what she can and come here. I think she would be a bigger asset for cooking and gardening and her knowledge of grown up in rural Vietnam and survival skills than it would cost me in food and water to have her around.

I live alone, I am divorced with no kids, but I prep for 3 people. When I was married I always prepped for me and my wife and one extra just incase. I think it is easier to prep for more people than for one and if you have less bodies then there is more to go around. If you prep for 1 you need at least 3 flashlights, 2 stoves ect. prep for 3 and you need 4 to 5 flashlights only 2 to 3 stoves ect ect. now I have 2 to 4 weeks of food and water for 3 people. If I was alone, I could stretch that to 6 to 12 weeks. Beside survival is easier in numbers. I would not want to start a fight and loose friends over something that hasn't happen yet but I do tell people (in a half joking way) if they show up empty handed in my driveway I wont be answering the door.

nrgcruizer
11-18-2012, 10:21 AM
I don't know that I can just abandon my closest friends & family. Most, if not all, the people I know aren't freeloaders & they're just your average working Joe. But if they do come, we'll have safety in numbers. I only have two hands. It would be time for me to organize them, ration the food, and use their skill set to rebuild the community. I'll organize groups to forage for food, fuel, & supplies, set up soup kitchens, set up a triage, & set up watches. Doctors, nurses, EMTs, dentist, veterans, mechanics, chefs, farmers, butchers.....Anyone with useful skill sets are most welcomed. The more help I have, the better. Earn your keep & you can stay. Lazy freeloaders, thieves, & thugs can stay out of our perimeter.

Supertac916
11-18-2012, 11:14 AM
I've actually converted the vast majority of my friends and their families to start prepping for emergencies. Since Sandy I've had six of them call me to get a group together to go through a list. Yesterday, one of my buds wives brought it up because he's been blowing off her concerns over the last 2 years, when she wants to stock up on some food. She said that I need to educate him:)

SVRider
11-18-2012, 12:53 PM
I don't know that I can just abandon my closest friends & family. Most, if not all, the people I know aren't freeloaders & they're just your average working Joe. But if they do come, we'll have safety in numbers. I only have two hands. It would be time for me to organize them, ration the food, and use their skill set to rebuild the community. I'll organize groups to forage for food, fuel, & supplies, set up soup kitchens, set up a triage, & set up watches. Doctors, nurses, EMTs, dentist, veterans, mechanics, chefs, farmers, butchers.....Anyone with useful skill sets are most welcomed. The more help I have, the better. Earn your keep & you can stay. Lazy freeloaders, thieves, & thugs can stay out of our perimeter.

The thing people need to understand is how quickly things will multiply and get worse.

If you have a family of 4 and have saved 30 days worth of water & food, and your friends with their family of 4 shows up, you now have 2 weeks worth. A third family and it's down to only 10 days.

Water is probably the most precious resource and most people don't store up enough. By trying to take care of everyone else, your family will suffer.

It is not to sound cold or callous, but it is reality. Your decision, but are you willing to sacrifice the security you arranged for your own family to try to take care of everyone else?

Instead, you need to try to get them to understand their need to have at least some basic supplies and if they want to work together then great, but they need to understand it is not just a "I spend the time, effort and money, and you are set without doing anything" situation.

What guarantee that they can even make it to your house? If they cannot, then what?

People just need to have realistic and reasonable expectations, and when in dire situations without any preparation, when reality hits, people are seldom reasonable.

By that time, the reality of the situation is evident, their own failings forgotten and self-preservation at any cost is all that will remain for those ill-prepared.

What are you willing to sacrifice on behalf of others?

KevinB
11-18-2012, 1:23 PM
Nobody can survive on their own. The people that are starving will take it from you. You are not the only people with firearms.

You should surround yourself with people with like interests and goals. Without a solid group a lone person will perish.

Dutch3
11-18-2012, 1:56 PM
I have a very small circle of friends. 3-4 at the most. 3 are likely better prepared than I am, and the 4th would be welcome if he shows up because he is another MacGuyver.

As far as family, I was pretty much disowned years ago. They are largely sheep who will depend on a 911 response. If any of them showed up at my gate, their acceptance would be based on what they could contribute.

I am set up to support 3-5 people for a reasonable time. Any more than that better be bringing their own subsistence or some damned good skills.

SVRider
11-18-2012, 7:48 PM
Nobody can survive on their own. The people that are starving will take it from you. You are not the only people with firearms.

You should surround yourself with people with like interests and goals. Without a solid group a lone person will perish.

Agreed, but as you say you should surround yourself with "like minded" individuals, not ones that expect that you will do all the prep and they just need to show up....unless your prep plan is for 20, then by all means...

.

nrgcruizer
11-19-2012, 12:16 AM
What are you willing to sacrifice on behalf of others?

All that I am. Isn't that what friendship is all about? If no one else helps, who will? The thugs down the road robbing, raping, & killing people? What do you do with the friends that did prep and got all their stash and firearms destroyed in a fire, or swept away by flood?

I understand your logic & where you're coming from. But I know my limitations as a human being. I need others to pitch in and help. I would not be able to perform a surgery on myself if I got shot. I can't even do CPR on myself. I don't know how to properly skin a game, or prep the meat. Let alone help a pregnant mother give birth to a child. I'm kind of rusty when it comes to putting a tourniquet on a broken arm, or leg. I think I can stay awake for 48-72 hours. But after that, I know I'll dose off.

I don't know how it will all unfold when a disaster does hit. Wish I had a crystal ball to tell you. I don't even know if I'm still going to be alive when it does occur. My convictions tells me to help. And if I starve to death doing so, then that's my decision. I'll die knowing I gave it everything I got.

KevinB
11-19-2012, 7:24 AM
SVRider, I have a fairly large and very close family. We are bound by family and religious beliefs to a certain degree. We also have a very strong sense of community and know how to work towards a common goal, whatever that goal may be.

Personally I do not like the Prepper label. Being self sufficient is just who we are and choose to run our lives. Belonging to something greater than yourself is very reassuring.

Stand alone and you will fall alone. Everything else is supposition.

SVRider
11-19-2012, 7:32 AM
All that I am.

Easier decision if I was alone. Not so easy to make on behalf of my wife and children. They are the ones I am working for moreso than me. They are my priority. If my decisions jeapordize their well being and safety, then not so simple.

Let's all just hope this all stays hypothetical and we never need to find out in reality.

SVRider
11-19-2012, 7:34 AM
SVRider, I have a fairly large and very close family. We are bound by family and religious beliefs to a certain degree. We also have a very strong sense of community and know how to work towards a common goal, whatever that goal may be.

Personally I do not like the Prepper label. Being self sufficient is just who we are and choose to run our lives. Belonging to something greater than yourself is very reassuring.

Stand alone and you will fall alone. Everything else is supposition.

Agreed. Self sufficiency it seems is a dying belief in these "modern times".

If all work together, then all the better. Group self sufficiency would be ideal.

kb58
11-19-2012, 7:39 AM
This thread brings up the issue of how "in general", preppers are loners. If those people are unwilling to share to any degree, fair enough, but no one can stay awake forever. That loner may have lots of supplies but it'll do him little good after he's so exhausted he can't defend it. When he goes to the front window to see who's in the front yard, he's blind to everything behind him. Now if he had been a group of perhaps 3-4, they could have rotating guard duty and defend in multiple directions.

I get all the points raised above but I think single preppers dilude themselves on the realities of their survival. Over and over we see that a single person is ineffective against a group, but the dream of being Rambo runs strong...

Yehosha
11-19-2012, 9:19 AM
As a typically generous, Christian man, there is no way I could turn away a good friend or family member from my door, even if they showed up with nothing, so that is why I am trying very hard lately to get them to prepare for themselves.

For this reason I started up a Facebook group page for friends/family that I am trying to educate them on preparedness and help them to prepare for themselves. It's definitely not working on all of them, but some are starting to wake up and get prepared.

Using Sandy as an example of what can happen to those that don't has helped a little. People have short memories, and forget what kinds of hells disasters like the Chile earthquake, Katrina, Sandy, etc, unearth. I think as preppers it's our jobs to remind those we love about the fragility of civilized society, and the reality of what government "help" actually looks like.

Because let's be 100% honest here, what kind of cold hearted bastard could look his mom or brother or best friend in the eye and tell them to leave, then watch them suffer and possibly die. You may talk tough here, but what are you really going to do when they are at your door? If you're not helping those you love prepare, you may end up dooming your own family as well.

all torque
11-19-2012, 9:25 PM
I use to keep my stuff stacked up on a shelf in the garage and every time I had friends and family over they would comment on my stash. They would always say that they were coming over if something ever happened, I would reply with an evil smile " don't come unannounced because you might get shot". They usually stop talking about it after that. Now I just keep it all locked up in a big wall locker so it's out of sight. But when it comes down to it I won't be able to turn away friends or family. I got my brother in to guns and then we got my dad a shotgun, now I just got to get them prepping.

OIFVet03
12-13-2012, 11:02 PM
I agree with you on that. It is their responsibility to take care of themselves. If they want to come to your house, they should bring their own supplies. You can always give them a list of what they need. You have to take care of your family first.

AKfan
12-31-2012, 5:52 PM
1) People should form groups, but they must group with a. intelligent/wise people with foresight who are willing to invest in their future safety and survival NOT just flunky idiot friends who mooch, leech and are NOT all around survival material. Survival calls for tough choices and sometimes requires telling people you know: "I warned you, you spent your time and money on stupid crap and know you gotta live with the consequences." You see, consequences are the other side of the coin that say 'I'm not your daddy or mommy so take responsibility for your own mess like a grownup.' True, I might change my mind depending on the situation and needs but the person I will likely turn away will be the one who did zero prep and had the most money or even some money to do some prepping.

2) Friends that come empty handed and don't know how to shoot and move and NOT shoot friendlies accidentally and who do NOT panic when they hear gunshots. I would rather count on or look for like-minded people than give an idiot a gun and expect them to watch my six.

3) All these idiots who say, "I'm going to YOUR place [and eat your food, use all your supplies, etc.] are having YOUR cake and eating it too! a. they get to mock you behind your back (if they do) but then want to cash in on YOUR preps, your hard work and investment.

4.) By NOT prepping, they tell themselves, "I am not a fool like such and such person." But in a way they hedge their bets and kiss your behind by admitting to you that YOUR supplies, hard work etc may come in handy so YOU are wise for preparing for your family -and for being foolishly overly generous mommies and daddies to these adult-sized children!!

5.) Friends are not automatically survival material. Sure you can probably trust them but do they KNOW how to shoot? If they want to bail out they may sneak off at night with your guns, ammo, food and gear while you are asleep? Maybe their whole goal was to take some of your stash and bail out for their own survival plan-emergencies reveal the extent to which people may disappoint and betray you-it's the crucible. Seriously, people need to be committed to their own survival and forge this into group-survival far in advance. Mooches are just that, and you are risking them being a liability.