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View Full Version : My Oswald/ JFK Assassination rifle re-pro is complete!


harmoniums
02-28-2010, 4:53 PM
The base Carcano is a Terni 1940, the same manufacturer and year of Oswald's
The scope and mount are the same ones Oswald used also, a really crappy .22 style scope imported from Japan (4x18 branded '"Ordnance Optics Inc").
The mount is a pressed piece of steel.
It took me two years to find this
I still need to get the correct jury rigged sling.



http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2693/4396837702_3017e8a891_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4071/4396069251_e671528d61_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4011/4396069055_b9726810cc_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2714/4396838204_fde3e98843_b.jpg

Jpach
02-28-2010, 4:57 PM
Ha thats awesome. Hows it shoot?

harmoniums
02-28-2010, 4:58 PM
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4026/4396069559_16e60f6a72_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4026/4396069441_af323b5713_b.jpg

harmoniums
02-28-2010, 5:00 PM
Ha thats awesome. Hows it shoot?

Haven't shot it yet, just got the scope bore sighted, and man did I have to drift the (non centered) cross hairs, no wonder Oswald's was off.

BTW I'll be putting this up on gunbroker with in bold:

NO SALES TO TEXAS!

Jason762
02-28-2010, 5:01 PM
Very nice!

You gonna send it to Mythbusters and ask them to make or bust the JFK shooting? :D

quick draw mcgraw
02-28-2010, 5:03 PM
Don't forget to buy the "Magic Bullets" for it so you can hit multiple targets with one shot.

harmoniums
02-28-2010, 5:06 PM
Don't forget to buy the "Magic Bullets" for it so you can hit multiple targets with one shot.

Don't want this to turn into a conspiracy thread, but the reason why the magic bullet theory was floated was that the original warren report thought that Connally and JFK were seated at the same level, this was incorrect, Connally's seat was a few inched lower, making the simulated trajectory far more realistic

WokMaster1
02-28-2010, 5:22 PM
Looks really good. How is the ammo availability & cost?

quick draw mcgraw
02-28-2010, 5:25 PM
Don't want this to turn into a conspiracy thread, but the reason why the magic bullet theory was floated was that the original warren report thought that Connally and JFK were seated at the same level, this was incorrect, Connally's seat was a few inched lower, making the simulated trajectory far more realistic

Interesting. I had not heard that before.

Mssr. Eleganté
02-28-2010, 5:33 PM
Ha thats awesome. Hows it shoot?

It shoots minute of...

Nope, not gonna say it.

yellowfin
02-28-2010, 5:51 PM
Believing that Oswald killed Kennedy is...well, let's just say I'd say if you're not already employed in the clergy, I'd recommend it, because that kind of faith in the absurdly improbable shouldn't go to waste.

russ69
02-28-2010, 6:01 PM
I shoot highpower competition. That includes rapid fire. I saw the computer animations on PBS and from my prospective, the shot/shots were totally doable. It looked like a reasonable makable assignment. The results proved this opinion. Nobody disputes that Oswald made some shoots and no other solid evidence was found.

Thanx, Russ

quagmiles
02-28-2010, 6:04 PM
I have a replica of the grassy knoll gun.

The Director
02-28-2010, 6:44 PM
Just one hour ago on the military channel was a show called Unsolved History. They recreated the street, car, and had a shooter in a tower at the exact same height and angle as Oswald.

The shooter was armed with a Carcano like that. Admittedly, he was an expert marksman. Using live ammo, he scored the hits pretty easily in the time Oswald reportedly did. They tried it about a dozen times. Each time he hit the watermelon they had in the car representing Kennedy's head.

The carcano had quite a few failures to feet and misfires, though. The marksman all but said it was a piece of junk.

Also, they recreated the time Oswald took to walk from the 6th floor down to the 2nd floor where he was found by the cop - Oswald had 90 seconds to do it, and the re-enactor did it in like 45 seconds.....walking. He got there without being winded or out of breath.

They also went to the real street and showed why the storm drain locations and grassy knoll didn't work using pics of the event, and videos, and the shooter with the rifle in each position.

They did a bunch more stuff....show was really thorough. In the end I was convinced Oswald did it. He got lucky, but he did do it I believe.

Seesm
02-28-2010, 6:50 PM
That is pretty nice... What are you asking for it? Btw did Oswalds scope say it was made in Hollywood...? JK :)

benelli shooter
02-28-2010, 7:04 PM
The question is not IF Oswald could hit Kennedy. The question is how did Oswald's shots cause Kennedy's head to recoil back TOWARDS the rear and to the left?

http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/abrahamzapruderfilm.htm

This is a no-brainer. No pun intended. He was hit from the front too.

Artery
02-28-2010, 7:10 PM
The question is not IF Oswald could hit Kennedy. The question is how did Oswald's shots cause Kennedy's head to recoil back TOWARDS the rear and to the left?

http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/abrahamzapruderfilm.htm

This is a no-brainer. No pun intended. He was hit from the front too.

The physics of a fast moving object hitting something hollow filled with fluid make objects sometimes move "backward." The force of the matter being blown out of the exit wound push back upon the object pushing it towards the shooter.


On another note...I'm not sure what I think of recreating a weapon that was used to kill a United States President, but I'm not going to judge.

quick draw mcgraw
02-28-2010, 7:15 PM
On another note...I'm not sure what I think of recreating a weapon that was used to kill a United States President, but I'm not going to judge.


It is a little on the creepy side when you stop and consider it's historical significance, but is it any more so than collecting an Arisaka or Mauser?

Booshanky
02-28-2010, 7:19 PM
On another note...I'm not sure what I think of recreating a weapon that was used to kill a United States President, but I'm not going to judge.



We build weapons all day long that are used to kill Arabs and other "brown people". To argue that building a weapon that has been used to kill the "wrong" person at some time in history is to assume the same kind of mindset that a lot of anti-gunners use. "Those are military rifles! What need do you have for one of those!?!?!"

It's a gun. I know Harmoniums personally and he's one of the most intelligent, straight-forward, and historically minded people I've ever known. His attention to detail here is something that I would be impressed by more than anything else.

-Mark

radioburning
02-28-2010, 7:21 PM
Hahaha! Harmoniums, you crack me up.

harmoniums
02-28-2010, 7:23 PM
On another note...I'm not sure what I think of recreating a weapon that was used to kill a United States President, but I'm not going to judge.

Yeah If my mom saw it she'd have a stroke, back in Ireland he played really good.
It was typical to see a Sacred Heat, the Pope and JFK picture hanging on the wall.
Someone PMed me to tell me to shoot a Kennedy half dollar with it and inlay the said "assassinated" coin into the stock.
Thats just a bit beyond the limits of good taste for me.
I've built it to try out the shot myself, Ive got a large stretch of private land with just about the right elevation on to replicate the book depository.

Friar_Tuck
02-28-2010, 7:26 PM
Originally Posted by harmoniums
Don't want this to turn into a conspiracy thread, but the reason why the magic bullet theory was floated was that the original warren report thought that Connally and JFK were seated at the same level, this was incorrect, Connally's seat was a few inched lower, making the simulated trajectory far more realistic

Ahhh, so that's how he did it.
But can you still get the special bullets for it that break several bones traveling through the 18" or so of tissue or so (between the two bodies) and then fall out in the hospital gourney totally pristine? (no dents, no deformation). Because that's what Warren commision says so its not a conspiracy theory right?

here are lots of people on this site who are SUPER knowledgable in the fields of ballistics and marksmanship,. Does this look like a bullet that traveled through two bodies breaking at least 2 bones?

http://i45.tinypic.com/4scpi9.jpg

Does that look like a bullet that traveled through bone and dense tissue? Hmmm?

harmoniums
02-28-2010, 7:29 PM
That is pretty nice... What are you asking for it? Btw did Oswalds scope say it was made in Hollywood...? JK :)

Actually, yes it did

http://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/bbdd330271.gif

harmoniums
02-28-2010, 7:36 PM
Ahhh, so that's how he did it.
But can you still get the special bullets for it that break several bones traveling through the 18" or so of tissue or so (between the two bodies) and then fall out in the hospital gourney totally pristine? (no dents, no deformation). Because that's what Warren commision says so its not a conspiracy theory right?

here are lots of people on this site who are SUPER knowledgable in the fields of ballistics and marksmanship,. Does this look like a bullet that traveled through two bodies breaking at least 2 bones?

http://i45.tinypic.com/4scpi9.jpg

Does that look like a bullet that traveled through bone and dense tissue? Hmmm?

Thats the round that allegedly went through the soft tissue of JFK's neck, in through the back of Connally where it hit a rib (and destroyed it).
It was yawing by then and hit sideways (which deformity can be seen below).
It then travelled through his wrist and hit his leg @ 400fps according to experts, and then basically fell out as they were moving him onto a bed from a gurney

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/CE399butt.jpg

BTW is it just me or did Oswald have a fairly worn barrel looking at how shallow the rifling marks are?

slick_711
02-28-2010, 7:44 PM
Interesting. I had not heard that before.

Yeah, Connoly was in a jump seat situated a few inches lower than Kennedy.


I was just in Dallas and went to the scene last week, the shot was much shorter than I had thought, without looking it up I'd call it 70 yards.

Sure there's lots of conspiracy stuff, and maybe someone even arranged for Oswald to do what he did. Who knows, LBJ was a powerful man in TX and he wanted to be President something awful. :TFH:

But there is no available evidence, ballistic or otherwise, to support a thought that anyone other than Oswald did the actual shooting.

Artery
02-28-2010, 7:53 PM
But there is no available evidence, ballistic or otherwise, to support a thought that anyone other than Oswald did the actual shooting.

^this

69Mach1
02-28-2010, 7:59 PM
Nice. Great job with the clone.

bluestaterebel
02-28-2010, 8:00 PM
Believing that Oswald killed Kennedy is...well, let's just say I'd say if you're not already employed in the clergy, I'd recommend it, because that kind of faith in the absurdly improbable shouldn't go to waste.

:TFH:

k1dude
02-28-2010, 8:06 PM
It was typical to see a Sacred Heat, the Pope and JFK picture hanging on the wall.

Sacred Heat? Now that's a picture I'd pay money to see!

Artery
02-28-2010, 8:07 PM
We build weapons all day long that are used to kill Arabs and other "brown people". To argue that building a weapon that has been used to kill the "wrong" person at some time in history is to assume the same kind of mindset that a lot of anti-gunners use. "Those are military rifles! What need do you have for one of those!?!?!"

It's a gun. I know Harmoniums personally and he's one of the most intelligent, straight-forward, and historically minded people I've ever known. His attention to detail here is something that I would be impressed by more than anything else.

-Mark

I think theres a difference between a rifle (or type of rifle) used in a war by a military and a specific rifle used by an individual to murder/assassinate someone.

That said, upon further consideration I have tremendous respect for the OP for recreating that rifle so precisely and exactly. If you go and recreate that shot it would be great to put up a thread!

bondmid003
02-28-2010, 9:59 PM
It shoots minute of...

Nope, not gonna say it.

It's been over 40 years but...too soon? too soon?

supersonic
03-01-2010, 1:01 PM
Actually, I'm building the same replica. 1940 Terni w/ Ordnance Optics (Hollywood, CA) scope & "X" mount. The scope is "new old stock" and is actually from the exact same lot that the original was from. It took me a year to track one down, but it turns out that Martin B. Retting's in SoCal has a whole box of them. They bought the lot from the Chicago(?) gun store that sold Oswald his back in the early 60's. IIAC, Retting's was the place that mounted the scope FOR LHO. As far as the accuracy, these carbines have a bad rep that is undeserved. The reason is because the Carcano's 6.5mm bore is .268" and almost all commercially available ammo for the Carcano is loaded with .264" bullets. Now, LHO was using real Italian military ammo (which may have been of the correct diameter), so that would account for the head shot. I have tried ammo by Norma (in which the extractor groove is incorrect and the rounds are difficult to eject) and PriviPartzan (correct case) with the .264 bullets, and these were giving me 2-3 MOA at best @ 100 yds. However, Hornady now makes a .268" bullet specifically for the Carcano's bore. When I took my handloads with THESE bullets to the range, I was getting 1 MOA consistently! Also, if you search YouTube, there is a guy on there with the same rifle that is hitting steel at 800+ yds. (I have a feeling he was using the .268" projectiles;)) Yeah, I know a "bit" about those "infamous" rifles. Did you know that they also have "gain-twist" rifling?:D

dfletcher
03-01-2010, 2:26 PM
Actually, I'm building the same replica. 1940 Terni w/ Ordnance Optics (Hollywood, CA) scope & "X" mount. The scope is "new old stock" and is actually from the exact same lot that the original was from. It took me a year to track one down, but it turns out that Martin B. Retting's in SoCal has a whole box of them. They bought the lot from the Chicago(?) gun store that sold Oswald his back in the early 60's. IIAC, Retting's was the place that mounted the scope FOR LHO. As far as the accuracy, these carbines have a bad rep that is undeserved. The reason is because the Carcano's 6.5mm bore is .268" and almost all commercially available ammo for the Carcano is loaded with .264" bullets. Now, LHO was using real Italian military ammo (which may have been of the correct diameter), so that would account for the head shot. I have tried ammo by Norma (in which the extractor groove is incorrect and the rounds are difficult to eject) and PriviPartzan (correct case) with the .264 bullets, and these were giving me 2-3 MOA at best @ 100 yds. However, Hornady now makes a .268" bullet specifically for the Carcano's bore. When I took my handloads with THESE bullets to the range, I was getting 1 MOA consistently! Also, if you search YouTube, there is a guy on there with the same rifle that is hitting steel at 800+ yds. (I have a feeling he was using the .268" projectiles;)) Yeah, I know a "bit" about those "infamous" rifles. Did you know that they also have "gain-twist" rifling?:D

Kleins Sporting Goods was a mail order house in Chicago during the late 50s and early 60s. My guess is that GCA68 putthem out of business. My Father woked for the Bureau of Budget from '61 to '65 and he bought one of these before 1963. After Nov 63 he never used it nor would he sell it, the thing literally stayed stuffed in the back of the closet for about 20 years before I started using it a bit. The old Winchester Western and Military ammo (162 grains I believe) worked well and Hornady reloads were OK. I wouldn't even look at Norma back then, I think a box of ammo costed about $20.00 more than the damn rifle.

Regarding gain twist rifling, I don't know the specifics but have heard that lopping off a few inches of barrel in rifles so equipped can cause accuracy problems. Undoubtedly quite a few folks made carbines out of their 1891 long rifles.

IIRC using IMR 4064 or IMR 4895 worked fine.

gun toting monkeyboy
03-01-2010, 5:20 PM
I don't think the 6.5 Model 38's had gain twist rifling. I was under the impression that they didn't put it on that model to lower the production cost. I'll have to look that one up when I get home. As for the M1891/24 Carbines that were made by lopping off the tightest gain twist at the end of the rifle barrels, they suck in terms of accuracy. I have one, and it won't stabilize anything heavier than 100 grains. The 160 grain bullets are keyholing at 25 yards, with horrible patterns. If you call 2 foot groups at 25 yards "patterns"... If you get a Carcano in decent shape and feed it the right hand loads, it can shoot under 2" at 100 yards all day long. Even the old Norma Alaskan 156 grain loads with under-sized bullets will shoot minute of deer vitals out to 200 yards with no trouble. The Carcanos get almost as bad a rap as Arisakas, and yet both are excellent guns if you feed them right.

-Mb

jonni
03-01-2010, 6:00 PM
I love the attention to detail

definitely one of a kind

Booshanky
03-01-2010, 6:04 PM
I think theres a difference between a rifle (or type of rifle) used in a war by a military and a specific rifle used by an individual to murder/assassinate someone.

That said, upon further consideration I have tremendous respect for the OP for recreating that rifle so precisely and exactly. If you go and recreate that shot it would be great to put up a thread!

Exactly. This is a historical rifle more than anything else.

aermotor
03-01-2010, 6:29 PM
To the OP I do find the title of this thread a bit unsettling... Not sure why you couldn't have just left out the JFK part. Do you think no one on a gun forum knows who Oswald was? Just a tad tasteless imo. Gun looks great though, for the junker that it was.

The question is not IF Oswald could hit Kennedy. The question is how did Oswald's shots cause Kennedy's head to recoil back TOWARDS the rear and to the left?

http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/abrahamzapruderfilm.htm

This is a no-brainer. No pun intended. He was hit from the front too.

Absolute concur from me.

The physics of a fast moving object hitting something hollow filled with fluid make objects sometimes move "backward." The force of the matter being blown out of the exit wound push back upon the object pushing it towards the shooter.

:eek: You actually believe that? *muffles a laugh...*

Greg-Dawg
03-01-2010, 6:37 PM
Now make a trip to the 6th Floor Museum with it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/10-14-09AR15145.jpg

WeekendWarrior
03-01-2010, 7:33 PM
Really cool rifle. I love the attention to detail! A very interesting piece of history you have recreated there.

alexander
03-01-2010, 8:13 PM
:eek: You actually believe that? *muffles a laugh...*

Think of it like a rocket. They push mass out one end, and move the other direction. If you have a small projectile pierce a fluid-filled cavity, and it causes more mass to exit the cavity on the opposite side compared to the entry, then you're going to see the cavity move 'backward'.

Booshanky
03-01-2010, 8:24 PM
Think of it like a rocket. They push mass out one end, and move the other direction. If you have a small projectile pierce a fluid-filled cavity, and it causes more mass to exit the cavity on the opposite side compared to the entry, then you're going to see the cavity move 'backward'.

I'm surprised that a forum of "gun people" would need to note this obvious fact.

Dr. Peter Venkman
03-01-2010, 9:12 PM
I'm surprised that a forum of "gun people" would need to note this obvious fact.

I know that you are not surprised.

AngryPossum
03-03-2010, 11:02 AM
Don't want this to turn into a conspiracy thread, but the reason why the magic bullet theory was floated was that the original warren report thought that Connally and JFK were seated at the same level, this was incorrect, Connally's seat was a few inched lower, making the simulated trajectory far more realistic

Too Late!!!:D

Vanguard
03-03-2010, 11:59 AM
I'm going to make a 'grassy knoll' rifle to accompany it.

SixPointEight
03-03-2010, 12:13 PM
I love the attention to detail

definitely one of a kind

Definitely 2 of a kind lol.

Nice repro!

Pvt. Cowboy
03-08-2010, 9:12 AM
I still need to get the correct jury rigged sling.


Are you still looking for a WWII US Navy binoculars case strap or a 'pistol shoulder holster strap'?

I sold my old Mannlicher-Carcano 91/38 about 15 years ago, but if I find the few brass clips around here someday, I will send them to you.

harmoniums
03-08-2010, 9:27 AM
I believe it was a M7 pistol shoulder rig he modified.

chsk9
03-08-2010, 11:56 AM
Ha thats awesome. Hows it shoot?

Well it can fire magic bullets that's for sure!

And the shot from the sewer theory is false. I was really some cuban costra nostra mobsters firing from a UFO. No really! Oliver Stone told me himself! :rolleyes:

menken
12-14-2010, 10:27 PM
I am interested in making a reproduction of the USAF M13 shoulder holster strap that LHO made into a sling for his Carcano. If someone has one, I would be interested in getting measurements and even pictures if you can swing that. I saw at Gunbroker someone had made one and was selling it with a Carcano 91/38, but it wasn't a very good copy. I think I can do a better job with some accurate info. Thanks.

Gordon McK

menken
03-14-2011, 7:50 PM
THats a pretty rifle, Harmo; only needs a proper sling to complete it....

frankm
03-14-2011, 10:02 PM
Now you just need a replica of Teddy's car!

Im Broken
03-14-2011, 10:43 PM
The real details and info on this will be released long after many of us have moved along in life. When nobody cares and forget who JFK was sadly.

richzmn
03-15-2011, 12:56 AM
You should have built a mauser. If you look at the video of evidence collection in the book depository. That hillbilly ranger/dallas pd officer holds up the rifle that he found by the window was a mauser, plus he got his fingerprints all over rifle. He then go's in the elevator, when he comes out downstairs he has the mannlicher caranco. This is clearly visable by caranco having a exterior magazine assembly, the mauser mag is internal.

Dallas PD evidence room box #2:

"The Mauser Rifle Report
Box 2 features the signed and sworn affidavit of Deputy Constable Seymour of the discovery of a 7.25mm, bolt-action Mauser rifle at approximately 1:22 P.M., on the day of the assassination and his resulting report on it.

An old story in the annuals of the Kennedy assassination, the discovery of a different rifle than Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano launches into one of the many controversies in the case. Discovered by Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone in the northwest corner of the sixth floor, it was identified as a Mauser by him, Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman, and Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig.

What is striking is officer Weitzman’s detailed account of what the rifle looked like. He specifically mentioned the power of the scope as being 4/18 in optical range, the same as Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano scope. He also mentioned it has a thick sling attached to it. He and Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone found the rifle between some boxes in the northwest corner of the sixth floor. Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig was there and also identified the rifle as a Mauser. Deputy Boone executed a signed affidavit (not included with the Dallas files) that the rifle was a Mauser as well. Weitzman said he handed the weapon over to Captain Fritz who then ejected a live round from the gun and for a while, publicly stated the gun found was a Mauser. (Later, this story would be changed to ejecting a live round from a Mannlicher-Carcano.)

Later, this whole story evolves into Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano with three spent 6.5mm spent hulls on the floor. It is a mystery as to why. All three of these police officers in their Warren Commission testimony mention finding a Mauser.

Officer Seymour Weitzman ran a sporting goods store on the side and was very experienced with firearms. It’s hard to believe he would so badly misidentify a firearm like this, a firearm he had probably seen before. Roger Craig said it had “Mauser” stamped on the barrel near the breach. Hard to get that wrong. Also, the affidavit of Weitzman is created on 23rd, the day after the assassination; nobody had gotten to him to have him change his account. He would later give the same description in his Warren Commission testimony. Check out the line of questioning HERE. You’ll notice that the attorney, Mr. Ball, never questions Weitzman in regards to the discrepancy to the weapon type, or how the Mauser morphs into a Mannlicher-Carcano. But later, the Warren Commission will decide that Weitzman and the other officers were simply mistaken.

The bottom line–there is no signed or sworn affidavit by any police officer in the Dallas Police archive that documents finding a Mannlicher-Carcano".

ubet
03-15-2011, 1:17 AM
Gotta admit, building the rifle is a little eerie, but good for you with attention to detail, just not my thing.

On the shooting. It just seems odd to me that more than 40 or so people involved with the investigation of the assination died, with in a couple months after the shooting. JFKs brain was never autopsied etc. I dont know what happened, but if you believe LHO was the only shooter, I got ocean front property in Kansas I will sell you. The answer to this, will never come out, and I dont think it needs too. The only way it would, is if someone, somehow stumbled onto an actual recording, piece of film, etc that had intricent details of the event.

dfletcher
03-15-2011, 10:03 AM
You should have built a mauser. If you look at the video of evidence collection in the book depository. That hillbilly ranger/dallas pd officer holds up the rifle that he found by the window was a mauser, plus he got his fingerprints all over rifle. He then go's in the elevator, when he comes out downstairs he has the mannlicher caranco. This is clearly visable by caranco having a exterior magazine assembly, the mauser mag is internal.



The 1891 Mauser, a gun commonly available as surplus at the time, has an external magazine not an internal magazine. The carbine's appearance is much the same as the Carcano. Gun folks such as us often forget most people can not recite make and model very well and that include the police.

The "it's a Mauser" mistaken ID by Weitzman is old and well documented news. If anyone has a phote (not just an "explanation") showing otherwise they should sell it for big $$$

SixPointEight
03-15-2011, 10:22 AM
You should have built a mauser. If you look at the video of evidence collection in the book depository. That hillbilly ranger/dallas pd officer holds up the rifle that he found by the window was a mauser, plus he got his fingerprints all over rifle. He then go's in the elevator, when he comes out downstairs he has the mannlicher caranco. This is clearly visable by caranco having a exterior magazine assembly, the mauser mag is internal.

Dallas PD evidence room box #2:

"The Mauser Rifle Report
Box 2 features the signed and sworn affidavit of Deputy Constable Seymour of the discovery of a 7.25mm, bolt-action Mauser rifle at approximately 1:22 P.M., on the day of the assassination and his resulting report on it.

An old story in the annuals of the Kennedy assassination, the discovery of a different rifle than Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano launches into one of the many controversies in the case. Discovered by Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone in the northwest corner of the sixth floor, it was identified as a Mauser by him, Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman, and Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig.

What is striking is officer Weitzman’s detailed account of what the rifle looked like. He specifically mentioned the power of the scope as being 4/18 in optical range, the same as Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano scope. He also mentioned it has a thick sling attached to it. He and Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone found the rifle between some boxes in the northwest corner of the sixth floor. Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig was there and also identified the rifle as a Mauser. Deputy Boone executed a signed affidavit (not included with the Dallas files) that the rifle was a Mauser as well. Weitzman said he handed the weapon over to Captain Fritz who then ejected a live round from the gun and for a while, publicly stated the gun found was a Mauser. (Later, this story would be changed to ejecting a live round from a Mannlicher-Carcano.)

Later, this whole story evolves into Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano with three spent 6.5mm spent hulls on the floor. It is a mystery as to why. All three of these police officers in their Warren Commission testimony mention finding a Mauser.

Officer Seymour Weitzman ran a sporting goods store on the side and was very experienced with firearms. It’s hard to believe he would so badly misidentify a firearm like this, a firearm he had probably seen before. Roger Craig said it had “Mauser” stamped on the barrel near the breach. Hard to get that wrong. Also, the affidavit of Weitzman is created on 23rd, the day after the assassination; nobody had gotten to him to have him change his account. He would later give the same description in his Warren Commission testimony. Check out the line of questioning HERE. You’ll notice that the attorney, Mr. Ball, never questions Weitzman in regards to the discrepancy to the weapon type, or how the Mauser morphs into a Mannlicher-Carcano. But later, the Warren Commission will decide that Weitzman and the other officers were simply mistaken.

The bottom line–there is no signed or sworn affidavit by any police officer in the Dallas Police archive that documents finding a Mannlicher-Carcano".
That's all fine and dandy, but the bullet recovered is the same that the Carcano fires. Not something you see loaded in Mauser ammo too often.

Gotta admit, building the rifle is a little eerie, but good for you with attention to detail, just not my thing.

On the shooting. It just seems odd to me that more than 40 or so people involved with the investigation of the assination died, with in a couple months after the shooting. JFKs brain was never autopsied etc. I dont know what happened, but if you believe LHO was the only shooter, I got ocean front property in Kansas I will sell you. The answer to this, will never come out, and I dont think it needs too. The only way it would, is if someone, somehow stumbled onto an actual recording, piece of film, etc that had intricent details of the event.

If you believe there was more than one shot that killed the two, that's your right, but I'd just like you to know, there have been several SUCCESSFUL attempts to recreate the "Magic Bullet" flight path. The only thing I've seen different is the penetration into the leg, but that's one of those things of chance. All the other elements of the bullet's flight path were accurately recreated.

That doesn't mean that LHO wasn't paid, or used in an attempt to cover up some assassination conspiracy, and that he didn't have accomplices who may or may not have been government officials. He may have, I just don't see any sufficient evidence of that. Also, most of the "multiple shooters, different places" theories have been looked into and dismissed.

Here's one such attempt:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8673666872571189886#

CalKing
03-15-2011, 10:32 AM
Great idea! I'm thinking of a Rohm RG-14 for nostalgia.

richzmn
03-15-2011, 11:23 AM
That's all fine and dandy, but the bullet recovered is the same that the Carcano fires. Not something you see loaded in Mauser ammo too often.


You mean that pristine bullet found on the gurney? That bullet could be reloaded and fired today.

SixPointEight
03-15-2011, 11:34 AM
You mean that pristine bullet found on the gurney? That bullet could be reloaded and fired today.

This one?
http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/9/9a/Photo_naraevid_CE399-1.jpg
http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/b/b8/Photo_naraevid_CE399-5.jpg

go ahead, reload that

richzmn
03-15-2011, 11:34 AM
If you believe there was more than one shot that killed the two, that's your right, but I'd just like you to know, there have been several SUCCESSFUL attempts to recreate the "Magic Bullet" flight path. The only thing I've seen different is the penetration into the leg, but that's one of those things of chance. All the other elements of the bullet's flight path were accurately recreated.

That doesn't mean that LHO wasn't paid, or used in an attempt to cover up some assassination conspiracy, and that he didn't have accomplices who may or may not have been government officials. He may have, I just don't see any sufficient evidence of that. Also, most of the "multiple shooters, different places" theories have been looked into and dismissed.


The killshot was fired face to face. The conspiracy started when the authorites refused to look further than one shooter.

Besides E. Howard Hunt confessed to being involved when he died.

We will never know the truth. BTW why would anyone replicate that POS rifle?

richzmn
03-15-2011, 11:35 AM
This one?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gwiXbQ4HapM/SfiX8srSP8I/AAAAAAAAAyw/x06hcSbWgpU/s400/magic_bullet2_sm.jpg
http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/b/b8/Photo_naraevid_CE399-5.jpg

go ahead, reload that


two different bullets

SixPointEight
03-15-2011, 11:38 AM
two different bullets

Reference the edit. Same source. Same exhibit. Same bullet. Otherwise they'd have different exhibit numbers. Why's this so hard to believe for some people?

Not saying I know everything, but if you WATCHED that vid where the shot was recreated, you'd see the bullet came out looking pretty darn good too.

richzmn
03-15-2011, 11:50 AM
Reference the edit. Same source. Same exhibit. Same bullet. Otherwise they'd have different exhibit numbers. Why's this so hard to believe for some people?

Not saying I know everything, but if you WATCHED that vid where the shot was recreated, you'd see the bullet came out looking pretty darn good too.


I've seen several other recreation also. I'd like to believe what were told.

But I know one shot came from the front.

The FBI test fired that POS rifle(look at the results) and I don't think LHO could hit the side of a barn with that rifle?

paul0660
03-15-2011, 11:53 AM
The shot that hit the two of them is quite evident here. Put it on full screen. Personally I think it was Oswald, but it has been great fun to listen to frothy mouthed conspiracy wannabe experts try to convince me otherwise, usually using foregone conclusions and omission as evidence. This does have cheesy sound and a flawed sequence of shots (the girl running in the backround testified that she stopped running at the sound) but it does last long enough to show one neat detail...........the picket fence at the end, smoke free.

ecZ4YOmPz2A

paul0660
03-15-2011, 11:56 AM
But I know one shot came from the front.

The FBI test fired that POS rifle(look at the results) and I don't think LHO could hit the side of a barn with that rifle?

Well heck then, case closed. Beam me up.

AlliedArmory
03-15-2011, 12:00 PM
Haven't shot it yet, just got the scope bore sighted, and man did I have to drift the (non centered) cross hairs, no wonder Oswald's was off.

BTW I'll be putting this up on gunbroker with in bold:

NO SALES TO TEXAS!


ROFL. Awesome!

dfletcher
03-15-2011, 12:10 PM
We will never know the truth. BTW why would anyone replicate that POS rifle?

I have one, my Dad bought it in '63 from Kleins and pretty much never used it, we lived in DC and he worked in the BoB at the time. I used it as a kid, even learned reloading with it and a Savage 340 in 222 Remington. It's rough but easy to shoot and accurate. I still have it sitting at Mom's house in MA.

I've kind of given up on the whole "conspiracy theory rebuff" thing & probably shouldn't have mentioned the 1891 Mauser but it seemed like an easy correction. But just like the "two bullets" response folks believe what they prefer, hear a bit of info or do the "it must be A because I heard B & C are true". It's endless.

richzmn
03-15-2011, 12:14 PM
The shot that hit the two of them is quite evident here. Put it on full screen. Personally I think it was Oswald, but it has been great fun to listen to frothy mouthed conspiracy wannabe experts try to convince me otherwise, usually using foregone conclusions and omission as evidence. This does have cheesy sound and a flawed sequence of shots (the girl running in the backround testified that she stopped running at the sound) but it does last long enough to show one neat detail...........the picket fence at the end, smoke free.


Well, I'm neither a conspiracy nut or an expert. IMO, I believe that there was another shooter. Not trying to convince anyone of anything.

Where did you beam to? Do you know Star Trek isn't real?

paul0660
03-15-2011, 12:20 PM
Do you know Star Trek isn't real?

So you say. :rolleyes:

Uxi
03-15-2011, 1:06 PM
Pretty cool! Funny to see some tinfoil hat conspiracy theory adherents still exist.



Now you just need a replica of Teddy's car!

Young bimbos everywhere fear! :D

SixPointEight
03-15-2011, 1:18 PM
I've seen several other recreation also. I'd like to believe what were told.

But I know one shot came from the front.

The FBI test fired that POS rifle(look at the results) and I don't think LHO could hit the side of a barn with that rifle?

how do you know that?

richzmn
03-15-2011, 1:31 PM
how do you know that?


The FBI test fired it a couple days later at 25 yards. It was barely on the paper. The car was at 225 yards. The targets can be found on the internet.

I'm just saying others were involved, not trying to burst anyone's bubble.

paul0660
03-15-2011, 1:37 PM
The FBI test fired it a couple days later at 25 yards. It was barely on the paper. The car was at 225 yards. The targets can be found on the internet.

I'm just saying others were involved, not trying to burst anyone's bubble.

The longest shot was 81 yards, 265 feet. Are you even trying?

richzmn
03-15-2011, 1:49 PM
The longest shot was 81 yards, 265 feet. Are you even trying?

I thought you beamed out?

Your right about the distance, but then again the test might have been 25 feet?

SixPointEight
03-15-2011, 1:54 PM
The FBI test fired it a couple days later at 25 yards. It was barely on the paper. The car was at 225 yards. The targets can be found on the internet.

I'm just saying others were involved, not trying to burst anyone's bubble.

I was questioning how you KNOW there was a shooter from the front. Even though the flight path of the bullet seems near impossible from the front without a bullet hole somewhere in the frontal area of the car.

The yardage issue was already addressed. How many times have you seen someone at the range that can't hit paper at 25 yards, yet someone else can shoot quarter sized groups at 100 with the same rifle?

Also note, that just because I own a mosin that's a 7MOA rifle, doesn't mean a shot will NEVER hit dead center where I'm aiming.

Also, your accuracy testing info is a lie. Here's one of the targets shot with the rifle submitted during a congress hearing:
15 yards
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce548.jpg
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce549.jpg

And on the 100 yard firings:
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
On Commission Exhibit 551 the three shots landed approximately 5 inches high and within a 3 1/2-inch circle, almost on a line horizontally across the target. This target and the other targets were fired on March 16, 1964 at Quantico, Va. These three shots were fired in 5.9 seconds.
The second target fired is Commission Exhibit 552, consisting of three shots fired in 6.2 seconds, which landed in approximately a 4 1/2 to 5-inch circle located 4 inches high and 3 or 4 inches to the right of the aiming point.
Commission Exhibit No. 553 is the third target fired, consisting of three shots which landed in a 3-inch circle located about 2 1/2 inches high and 2 inches to the right of the aiming point.
These three shots were fired in 5.6 seconds.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce551.jpg
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce552.jpg
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce553.jpg

Any other lies?

paul0660
03-15-2011, 1:59 PM
The FBI tests of the Carcano's accuracy showed:

FBI firearms expert Robert A. Frazier testified that "It is a very accurate weapon. The targets we fired show that."[62] From 15 yards (14 m), all three bullets in a test firing landed approximately 2½ inches high, and 1-inch (25 mm) to the right, in the area about the size of a dime.[63] At 100 yards (91 m), the test shots landed 2½ to 5 inches (130 mm) high, within a 3 to 5-inch (130 mm) circle. Frazier testified that the scope's high variation would actually work in the shooter's favor: with a target moving away from the shooter, no "lead" correction would have been necessary to follow the target. "At that range, at that distance, 175 feet (53 m) to 265 feet (81 m),[64] with this rifle and that telescopic sight, I would not have allowed any lead — I would not have made any correction for lead merely to hit a target of that size."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_rifle#FBI_tests

You aren't trying.

I visited Dealy Plaza in between flights, in 2007. The museum was closed. It was an easy shot. I give more credence to your "knowing one shot came from the front" than the research you refer to, which so far you have construed to support your opinion despite it indicating the the opposite. You are right about one thing, we won't ever know for sure. I do know that unless you look at stuff with an open mind, you get sucked into other people's theories, (like Oliver Stone's) and end up looking foolish.

richzmn
03-15-2011, 2:25 PM
I'm opened minded to a second shooter. You believe what your told which may be 99% correct. I've seen other test shots which had different results.

E Howard Hunt confession?

paul0660
03-15-2011, 2:30 PM
E Howard Hunt confession?

I found one, not on his deathbed, where he said LBJ was "in his opinion" fixated on being Prez. Is there a better one? Throw us a bone, and not from your memory. The internet awaits.

richzmn
03-15-2011, 2:58 PM
I heard the whole audio but this is just a short clip. Hunt says, "I was the benchwarmer for the big event".

This is all that I could find. The whole audio is very long. He gave these audio tapes to his son(lower link). Considering this guys history?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bknUDgKdEJQ&feature=related

http://www.saintjohnhunt.com/

paul0660
03-15-2011, 3:08 PM
That is all I have found too. That tape was a teaser for the real deal, and I haven't found anything else. And yes, if there were a true deathbed confession, I would say so what.

It coulda happened the way the Warren commission says it did. I haven't found anything that says they are full of it, but two things bother me...........the motor cop that says he got to the lunch room less than a minute after the shooting, and Tippett's phone call in the record store. Otherwise, it all fits, INCLUDING the head shot. Oswald was a limpdick wannabee with issues, who got lucky with a rifle that was bent just right.

And we will never know for sure. All I know was that Friday was my tenth birthday, and it sucked for everyone.

richzmn
03-15-2011, 3:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAWdzh-dmSo&feature=related


better video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f3mlbrwXjg&feature=related

richzmn
03-15-2011, 3:16 PM
That is all I have found too. That tape was a teaser for the real deal, and I haven't found anything else. And yes, if there were a true deathbed confession, I would say so what.

It coulda happened the way the Warren commission says it did. I haven't found anything that says they are full of it, but two things bother me...........the motor cop that says he got to the lunch room less than a minute after the shooting, and Tippett's phone call in the record store. Otherwise, it all fits, INCLUDING the head shot. Oswald was a limpdick wannabee with issues, who got lucky with a rifle that was bent just right.

And we will never know for sure. All I know was that Friday was my tenth birthday, and it sucked for everyone.


Your right about that, it sucked. I wasn't even born yet. When I was about 5 or 6, I was really interested in history and was just learning of the assassination. My parents were still upset by this and that was about 10 years after the fact.


The last video I posted had some interesting camera angles.

FullMetalJacket
03-15-2011, 5:30 PM
Can't resist the urge to say a few things in a JFK assassination thread...

1. The magic bullet is not so magic. If you model the locations of JFK and Connolly accurately, the path connecting JFK's neck wound to Connolly's back wound can be projected backwards to the infamous Sixth Floor window in the Texas School Book Depository. The bullet is also not 'pristine,' but flattened (as shown upthread) where it shattered Connolly's rib while yawing through his body. In the enhanced version of the Zapruder film, you can see Connolly's lapel flip out at the same frame JFK begins to react to a shot.

2. Bodies do strange things when hit by bullets. An analysis of the film shows that the backward movement of Kennedy's head is delayed a couple of frames from the impact, so it CAN'T be the result of momentum transfer from a bullet. It could, however, be a convulsive effect brought on by massive neurological trauma.

3. There was a witness--Howard Brennan--who SAW a man do the shooting from the TSBD.

4. There may have been smoke on the Grassy Knoll, but it wouldn't have come from an assassin's rifle. Even in 1963, rifle cartridges used smokeless powder.

5. The trajectory of a bullet from the Grassy Knoll is inconsistent with the wound on JFK's head. A shot from the Grassy Knoll--especially the Stockade Fence shown in the film JFK--would've been from the side.

6. In the aftermath of the assassination, only one employee was found to be missing from the Texas School Book Depository: Lee Harvey Oswald. Unless one concludes the bundle contained a rifle, the package of "curtain rods" that Oswald brought to work that morning was never located.

7. Oswald's shooting that day was good, but nothing beyond normal human ability. He had shot well enough to qualify sharpshooter in the Marines, a service built on capable riflemen. Nor is the Carcano the "world's worst shoulder weapon;" it was more than capable of killing at the small distances involved in the assassination. When you consider the evidence that the first shot was a miss (Failure Analysis Associates concluded it was deflected by an intervening tree branch), the total time of the shooting is on the order of 9 seconds, plenty of time for three shots to be fired accurately.

8. If Oswald didn't kill Kennedy or Officer Tippett, he was in the immediate vicinity of two unconnected murders in a single day.

9. When Oswald was arrested, he was inside a movie theater in the middle of a workday. He also was carrying a revolver consistent with the one that killed Tippett. He also tried to shoot the arresting officers.

10. No credible evidence has ever shown Oswald and Jack Ruby to have known one another. And, as for the supposed hit on Oswald ordered by the mob? If Oswald hadn't delayed his transport to the county jail by demanding a different sweater, Jack Ruby would've arrived too late to have seen him.

I have to shake my head at all those who still persist in believing in conspiracy despite the astonishing lack of evidence for one. The Warren Commission did not get everything right, but they got the essential truth: Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, killed President John F. Kennedy.

paul0660
03-15-2011, 7:29 PM
Can't resist the urge to say a few things in a JFK assassination thread...

1. The magic bullet is not so magic. If you model the locations of JFK and Connolly accurately, the path connecting JFK's neck wound to Connolly's back wound can be projected backwards to the infamous Sixth Floor window in the Texas School Book Depository. The bullet is also not 'pristine,' but flattened (as shown upthread) where it shattered Connolly's rib while yawing through his body. In the enhanced version of the Zapruder film, you can see Connolly's lapel flip out at the same frame JFK begins to react to a shot.

2. Bodies do strange things when hit by bullets. An analysis of the film shows that the backward movement of Kennedy's head is delayed a couple of frames from the impact, so it CAN'T be the result of momentum transfer from a bullet. It could, however, be a convulsive effect brought on by massive neurological trauma.

3. There was a witness--Howard Brennan--who SAW a man do the shooting from the TSBD.

4. There may have been smoke on the Grassy Knoll, but it wouldn't have come from an assassin's rifle. Even in 1963, rifle cartridges used smokeless powder.

5. The trajectory of a bullet from the Grassy Knoll is inconsistent with the wound on JFK's head. A shot from the Grassy Knoll--especially the Stockade Fence shown in the film JFK--would've been from the side.

6. In the aftermath of the assassination, only one employee was found to be missing from the Texas School Book Depository: Lee Harvey Oswald. Unless one concludes the bundle contained a rifle, the package of "curtain rods" that Oswald brought to work that morning was never located.

7. Oswald's shooting that day was good, but nothing beyond normal human ability. He had shot well enough to qualify sharpshooter in the Marines, a service built on capable riflemen. Nor is the Carcano the "world's worst shoulder weapon;" it was more than capable of killing at the small distances involved in the assassination. When you consider the evidence that the first shot was a miss (Failure Analysis Associates concluded it was deflected by an intervening tree branch), the total time of the shooting is on the order of 9 seconds, plenty of time for three shots to be fired accurately.

8. If Oswald didn't kill Kennedy or Officer Tippett, he was in the immediate vicinity of two unconnected murders in a single day.

9. When Oswald was arrested, he was inside a movie theater in the middle of a workday. He also was carrying a revolver consistent with the one that killed Tippett. He also tried to shoot the arresting officers.

10. No credible evidence has ever shown Oswald and Jack Ruby to have known one another. And, as for the supposed hit on Oswald ordered by the mob? If Oswald hadn't delayed his transport to the county jail by demanding a different sweater, Jack Ruby would've arrived too late to have seen him.

I have to shake my head at all those who still persist in believing in conspiracy despite the astonishing lack of evidence for one. The Warren Commission did not get everything right, but they got the essential truth: Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, killed President John F. Kennedy.

Very well put, FMJ.

jackandblood
03-15-2011, 7:45 PM
It looks like it could do anything, certainly a style meant for penetration and not likely to lose energy tumbling like a spitzer type.

Ahhh, so that's how he did it.
But can you still get the special bullets for it that break several bones traveling through the 18" or so of tissue or so (between the two bodies) and then fall out in the hospital gourney totally pristine? (no dents, no deformation). Because that's what Warren commision says so its not a conspiracy theory right?

here are lots of people on this site who are SUPER knowledgable in the fields of ballistics and marksmanship,. Does this look like a bullet that traveled through two bodies breaking at least 2 bones?

http://i45.tinypic.com/4scpi9.jpg

Does that look like a bullet that traveled through bone and dense tissue? Hmmm?

Rolls-Royce
03-15-2011, 8:41 PM
That is all I have found too. That tape was a teaser for the real deal, and I haven't found anything else. And yes, if there were a true deathbed confession, I would say so what.

It coulda happened the way the Warren commission says it did. I haven't found anything that says they are full of it, but two things bother me...........the motor cop that says he got to the lunch room less than a minute after the shooting, and Tippett's phone call in the record store. Otherwise, it all fits, INCLUDING the head shot. Oswald was a limpdick wannabee with issues, who got lucky with a rifle that was bent just right.

And we will never know for sure. All I know was that Friday was my tenth birthday, and it sucked for everyone.

I agree that day sucked (I'm about 6 months older than you and also will never forget it). Actually, the whole weekend did.:(

Concerning the question of a head moving backwards after being shot from behind, a decade or so ago there was a NOVA on PBS about the JFK assassination-I have it on VHS tape somewhere. Anyway, this was one of the things they looked at. Skulls (casts, IIRC) filled with white paint were fired at from the rear, and the tape showed that at least some went backwards upon being hit. One of the things the program took pains to point out during its closing remarks was that pretty much none of the known evidence in the case is absolutely conclusive or incontrovertible.

Desert_Rat
03-15-2011, 9:27 PM
So much for not becoming a conspiracy thread.

OP:
Nice rifle. I for one like it.

Ike Arumba
03-15-2011, 10:30 PM
Gerald Posner's book, "Case Closed: Lee Harvey Oswald and the Assassination of JFK" (1993) takes the conspiracy theories and theorists apart.

paul0660
03-15-2011, 10:51 PM
OP:
Nice rifle. I for one like it.

Yes, very nice..........I was going to say that half a dozen times and forgot.

winxp_man
03-16-2011, 12:54 AM
Why was the windshield removed from the car and seats changed? How the hell does every doctor that ever checked on Kennedy say the back was missing? And most daunting and damning of all - how the **** is the brain lost - the brain of the President of the United States of America???? And so many more questions that can be asked........................ just saying to many things can be factored in not to say there wasn't a second shooter or that LHO did it. I learned from my father that lived in a 100% communist country and one that had one of the bloodiest eastern commi revolution, and to say that there is not more than meets the eye is a naive idea.

In Romania the President Ceausescu's own men took him out and claimed they helped bring democracy when only the unarmed population can say such things. People that gave there lives for the idea of freedom. I just cant really trust governments that easy on what they say. It's a beautiful idea (freedom that is) but can't be taken for granted.

MrPlink
03-16-2011, 3:09 AM
4. There may have been smoke on the Grassy Knoll, but it wouldn't have come from an assassin's rifle. Even in 1963, rifle cartridges used smokeless powder.



:::ahem::::
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/6/61315/1627060-comedian_super.jpg :D

lobsternoob
03-16-2011, 7:10 AM
I'm not going to get involved in the argument or discussion about the actual assassination, no point there. I think this is definitely an interesting rifle you've put together though. Despite the role that the original played in our countries' history not being a positive one whether you believe it was used to kill one of our presidents or not it is certainly a piece of history. As such, I can appreciate the effort you must have put into it getting things right. I've never tried to put something like this together, but I can't see it being the easiest thing to do correctly. I can definitely see why some people might not find it the most appropriate rifle to build, but really I don't see how it is different than owning any other replica military firearm. In fact, I think it is more interesting than most replica military firearms, just look at how much conversation it inspires...Cool piece.

WDE91
03-16-2011, 10:41 AM
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/bjkearns/P1000338.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd301/bjkearns/P1000337.jpg

frankm
03-16-2011, 10:55 AM
Oswald acting alone? We'll never know. Ruby had known underworld contacts. There is some skullduggery going on there. The evidence is probably with Obama's birth certificate.

Dark Mod
03-16-2011, 2:54 PM
You should time yourself and see if you can get off 2 aimed shots in under 3 seconds