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View Full Version : AMMO WARNING! MFS .38SPL


crazy
02-28-2010, 11:44 AM
At the range today, someone was shooting their S&W .38. They were shooting this MFS ammo and had at least 5 case failures. I took some pictures to post. This was not reloaded ammo. It was purchased new from the store.



http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6846/pict2381.jpg

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/9595/pict2388b.jpg

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/4657/pict2377.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6282/pict2387.jpg

gorenut
02-28-2010, 12:05 PM
Wow.. thats pretty bad. Thanks for the headsup.

Joe
02-28-2010, 12:08 PM
wow. thats horrible

Noobert
02-28-2010, 12:09 PM
I never even heard of this brand :confused:

TheSorb
02-28-2010, 12:13 PM
Yikes!!!:eek: I'll definitely steer clear of that stuff...appreciate the alert crazy!;)

wrench57
02-28-2010, 12:32 PM
I have not seen this brand before so no exp. with it. Were they hot loads and were they shot in revolver or semi auto. From what I can see of pictures case exp. seems excessive?

Mr. Beretta
02-28-2010, 12:43 PM
Thanks for the info!

littlejake
02-28-2010, 12:53 PM
Headstamp doesn't even say +P. The box seems to indicate a 158 gr FMJ. The case expansion is excessive and one of the worst spilt cases shows primer flow... but not all do.

Thoughts in order of likelyhood (IMO)

Poor charge metering in manufacturing
undersize brass cases -- it is expensive
less likely -- oversize revolver chamber **


** I had a S&W 67 that had one chamber that went oversize after 21 years of +P.

Old4eyes
02-28-2010, 12:56 PM
MFS Brand?
Oh yeah, now I remember
My
Family
Sues

crazy
02-28-2010, 1:23 PM
I was not there while these were being fired. I don't think these were hot loads. I asked them if they ever had split cases before. They said no. I'm not an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. My take on the problem is faulty cases. But what the hell do I know. The ammo is manufactured in Hungary. I just happened to be there and took the pictures to share with everyone. Power to the little man with a camera and an internet connection.:hurray:

boink
02-28-2010, 1:31 PM
hmm. I ended up with 500 rounds of MFS 9mm 115gr. I've only shot 50 rounds of it through my P226, but it was flawless and performed better than the 100 rounds of Winchester white box I had shot before it.

I'll have to be careful, but so far the 9mm I have, at least, is working great.

socalshooting
02-28-2010, 1:33 PM
Apparently a premier Hungarian ammo company.

MFS 2000 Inc. (http://www.mfs2000.hu/news.html)

QC must've gone down, this is pretty dangerous. Thanks for the heads up.

mtenenhaus
02-28-2010, 1:39 PM
Wow, that's terrible, glad no one got hurt.

Similar to Boink's posting, i've been shooting the 9mm and have been very pleased. Quite accurate and sold at a reasonable price. I did however note some poor reviews on Cabelas.

M47_Dragon
02-28-2010, 2:16 PM
Not SAAMI rated. I'd stay away. Thanks for the heads-up.

johnthomas
02-28-2010, 2:28 PM
http://www.epicos.com/epicos/extended/hungary/mfs/mfs_home.html

JBird33
02-28-2010, 2:43 PM
Perhaps the shooter has a .38 S/W and not a .38 Special. That would do it every time. A lot of people with older model 10 Smiths think they have a .38 Special in their hands when it is not.

littlejake
02-28-2010, 3:00 PM
Perhaps the shooter has a .38 S/W and not a .38 Special. That would do it every time. A lot of people with older model 10 Smiths think they have a .38 Special in their hands when it is not.

IIRC -- the .38 spl case is longer than the .38 S&W -- 1.155 inches overall compared to 0.755 inches. The chamber should have a counterbore that prevents the .38 spl from chambering in a 38 S&W -- same thing that prevents chambering a .357 in a .38 spl chambered cylinder (unless you load the cylinder with a ball-peen hammer:D)

f33dback
02-28-2010, 4:39 PM
Thanks for the heads up.

juicemansam
02-28-2010, 5:02 PM
This
At the range today, someone was shooting their S&W .38. They were shooting this MFS ammo and had at least 5 case failures. I took some pictures to post. This was not reloaded ammo. It was purchased new from the store.
and this
I was not there while these were being fired. I don't think these were hot loads. I asked them if they ever had split cases before. They said no.
lead me to doubt that they could have been factory loads. Anybody can walk in with reloads packed in any given brand's box. I bought a bunch of aluminum-cased blazer ammo, and I've been to ranges where they only look at the box and say they're fine to shoot. Of course, if these MFS rounds are in fact factory rounds, then that's a concern. But for me there's a bit of doubt.

tbhracing
02-28-2010, 6:11 PM
Thanks, will never buy that stuff.

West coast
02-28-2010, 6:33 PM
WOW!!!!

crazy
02-28-2010, 6:48 PM
This

and this

lead me to doubt that they could have been factory loads. Anybody can walk in with reloads packed in any given brand's box. I bought a bunch of aluminum-cased blazer ammo, and I've been to ranges where they only look at the box and say they're fine to shoot. Of course, if these MFS rounds are in fact factory rounds, then that's a concern. But for me there's a bit of doubt.


First, let me say that you can doubt all you want. I have no dog in this fight. This is not a case of some guy that's related to another guy that has a cousin twice removed that has a brother in law that shot this ammo.

I am a member at a gun club. The person shooting the ammo is a member of the gun club. They bought two boxes of this ammo from the gun shop in town. Some of the guys were examining the cases when I came back to the pistol range. When I saw the cases, I wanted to take pictures. After I took the pictures, I called the gun shop myself and spoke with the owner and told him what happened to the cases. He said he would pull the ammo and call the distributor or manufacturer on Monday.

So to conclude my thoughts about your comments, I posted this because I was concerned and I thought others might be concerned also. I don't own stock in a competing ammo manufacturer. If you want to buy this ammo and shoot it in your gun, be my guest. Just let me know when you are going to the range so I can be there with my video camera.

JBird33
02-28-2010, 7:00 PM
IIRC -- the .38 spl case is longer than the .38 S&W -- 1.155 inches overall compared to 0.755 inches. The chamber should have a counterbore that prevents the .38 spl from chambering in a 38 S&W -- same thing that prevents chambering a .357 in a .38 spl chambered cylinder (unless you load the cylinder with a ball-peen hammer:D)

Usually that is the case, however a lot of those older Smiths were modified when they were brought back over to the US from England. They had the barrels chopped down, lanyard loop cut off, and cylinders reamed out to accept .38 Special. I own one of the darn things (cause who can turn down a gun for $150, even if it has been bastardized!)

I fired some .38 Special in mine just to see how it did and out of 50 rounds I had 1 case failure. Mine was just reamed a little tighter maybe? :43:

RogueSniper
02-28-2010, 10:13 PM
Crazy - Thanks for your contribution and warning. I bought some of the MFS from Cabela's, but in 380Auto. I've read that the ammo was extremely dirty but nothing about split cases. I agree that perhaps the QC has gone down but maybe other mitigating factors but those are unknowns.

Good for you for contacting the gun shop. I'm going to contact Cabela's about the possible problem.

Did anyone keep those rounds and any unfired ones? I'd be curious to know what the case thickness were on those that split and the unfired ones.

I'm going to disassemble one of those MFS rounds right now and check the wall thickness.

crazy
02-28-2010, 11:46 PM
Crazy - Thanks for your contribution and warning. I bought some of the MFS from Cabela's, but in 380Auto. I've read that the ammo was extremely dirty but nothing about split cases. I agree that perhaps the QC has gone down but maybe other mitigating factors but those are unknowns.

Good for you for contacting the gun shop. I'm going to contact Cabela's about the possible problem.

Did anyone keep those rounds and any unfired ones? I'd be curious to know what the case thickness were on those that split and the unfired ones.

I'm going to disassemble one of those MFS rounds right now and check the wall thickness.



All the cases that were fired were collected and put back in the box. Two cases couldn't be found. There were about 20 unfired rounds and the rest were OK except for the 5 split cases. I told the guy that he should take them back and get a refund. That started the old "ammo is not returnable" argument. I said that the store owner would be a fool to not refund the money for those two boxes of ammo. My opinion was that if he didn't get a refund, post it here on Calguns and let everyone know. But I can't imagine that would be necessary.


My take on this is that I will not be buying any of that ammo for myself. The info was shared with everyone here and they can make the decision if they want to shoot it in their gun or not. If anyone "doubts" my sincerity or the accuracy of my description, that's OK by me. I know that most members appreciate the warning.


P.S. Second paragraph is not directed at you Roguesniper.

Katana
03-01-2010, 6:29 PM
Just let me know when you are going to the range so I can be there with my video camera.

Bring a sheet of plexiglass.

CornFedWB
03-01-2010, 7:01 PM
I had this happen to me with my mosin nagant. The paper wrapped russian ammo thats so popular. Must have gotten a bad batch, the case cracked at the rim in the back and shot hot gasses and burning powder in my face. That was from Cordova Guns.

Ding126
03-01-2010, 7:03 PM
good heads up

fabguy
03-01-2010, 7:08 PM
oh wow, I just bought some 7.62x39 MFS from cabelas last week. Now worried about shooting this stuff

PolishMike
03-01-2010, 7:09 PM
Hey guys,

I was selling this stuff but have since pulled it off the shelves. There isnt much 38spl ammo available these days so I got these from a distributor.

I spent some of today researching it and it looks to be a problem with this stuff.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/125018-mfs-38-special.html


It is NOT a pressure problem. These are not overloaded but just have improperly annealed cases. I am trying to find some replacement ammo now.

Jonathan Doe
03-01-2010, 7:11 PM
Shoud check the chamber of the revolver.

I had a Rossi 92 44 Mag lever gun. It did the same thing. When I conctacted Interarms for the problem, they replaced my rifle with a new one. Never had a problem since.

den888
03-01-2010, 7:55 PM
Thanks, good info...

Drey
03-01-2010, 7:57 PM
This ammo is made in Hungary, I believe. Cabelas.com just recently started to distribute it and it doesn't even have good reviews. I think it's a brand new line, haven't heard this name before.

BigDogatPlay
03-01-2010, 9:38 PM
Improper annealing seems to be a likely suspect based on everything seen and read. Since you can't return ammo most likely either shoot it up in a good, heavy framed .357 or pull the bullets and powder, shoot off the primed cases and then scrap the brass.

And I think we may have determined that MFS is an acronym for....

Mother
F****ng
S***

VegasND
03-02-2010, 5:05 AM
oh wow, I just bought some 7.62x39 MFS from cabelas last week. Now worried about shooting this stuff
If you're frightened enough to throw it away, I'll send your my address and pay shipping ... ...