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phoenix02
02-27-2010, 11:34 PM
Hello,

I've been a long time lurker here, ever since I bought my SKS 5 years ago. I just registered so that I could ask this question-

I am looking for a handgun for home defense. my long arms won't cut it, and with a new baby in the house, the economy going down, more desperate people doing stupid things in the media, etc, I want something.

Budget is $4-500, OTD- including handgun cert. I'm in the High Desert, and have had NO luck finding anything used, worthwhile, in this price range. I am planning on calling around the IE on monday and seeing if there's anything at any shops down there.

I've narrowed it down to two options so far-
1. Rock Island Arms 1911A1, new, OTD for around $500. I would then, in the next year, get 3 more mags and a .22LR conversion for target practice without the cost of .45acp ammo.

2. Sig p225, Zurich police trade in, for $435, OTD. I would then purchase a respring kit for $25 and 3 more mags.

Here's my cost breakdown over the next year, before the new ammo law goes into effect next Feb.-

option 1-
RIA 1911- $500
500 Rds .45- $200
.22 convert- $300
1500 rds .22- $ 60
mags- $ 45
TOTAL- $1095

option 2-
Sig- $335
springs- $ 25
2000 rds 9mm-$560
mags- $120
TOTAL- $1040

The gun will be used by myself and my wife, who is rather petite. For that reason, I was leaning towards the Sig, but the 1911 has always been a mystical gun for me, and parts and hop ups are alot cheaper and readily available. I also like the stopping power of the .45 compared to the 9mm- either will do the job, I just think the .45 will do it a little better. I also think that my wife will get used to a .45 after many range outings.

The big factor in all this is the cost of ammo- 9mm is far cheaper than .45. The less expensive the ammo, the more likely we are to go to the range, the more experience we have, the better we can utilize it. I could buy a dream gun, like a Kimber Gold Cup target 1911, but if I can't afford more than one mag of ammo for it after that, what good is it if I miss the guy that's standing in my livingroom with a .380 that he WAS able to afford the ammo to practice with?

Are the .22LR 1911 conversions worth it? Does the practice, at shorter ranges, help in your target aquisition and aim when transformed back to a .45?

Sorry for my long winded post, but any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Michael

Digital_Boy
02-27-2010, 11:39 PM
Have you gone to a range to rent some examples of either? Both you and your wife should do so and decide which one would ultimately work best in your situation.

FWIW, the Kimber .22LR 1911 conversions work pretty well, though you want to use a high powered round like CCI Mini Mags to ensure the action cycles reliably and to avoid stovepipes.

Alexjr1967
02-27-2010, 11:39 PM
With those 2 options ... I must first ask if you've handled / rented & shot with both ... if so which felt better? if not I recomend doing so ...

if I were two choose between those options ...hands down the 2nd ...Sig P225

Ultimate
02-27-2010, 11:46 PM
YZearnie is in the high desert. I would give him a call he seems to have some pretty reasonable prices and is an ffl. He has a Ruger SR9 for 440+ tax and dros of course so that is close to your budget and a good firearm.

Here is his thread

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=257865

Good luck!

five.five-six
02-27-2010, 11:48 PM
hi point and $350 in ammo... it's just as good as a glock

boredin818
02-28-2010, 12:41 AM
Once you make up your mind.... www.galleryofguns.com

tbhracing
02-28-2010, 12:46 AM
Ummmm....No on the Hi Point and YES to a Glock 19.

Joe
02-28-2010, 12:59 AM
Out of your choices I'd choose the Sig.

There are a lot of other options though.

Glock 19
Sip Pro sp2022

phoenix02
02-28-2010, 1:55 AM
I've had some range exposure to 1911s- Colts and Norincos. I like the way they feel. My wife has basically no firearms experience- she's fired an SKS, a J frame .38, and some .22s... that's about it.

I've never fired a Sig, but I have hefted them at gun shops. Again, never felt a 225, with the single stack mag, but with a similar design to the other Sigs, it should feel fine.. I, uh, assume. :)

For some reason, I'm biased against polymer frame guns... other than the P99. Don't really know why, I think I just have a mental block that they're inferior in build quality to a steel frame gun. Not the p99 for the only reason that I've fired one and loved it. Not big on the feel of Glocks.

My problem is that for these prices, either of my above listed options are going to be mailorder- the 1911 from Sarco and the p225 from Top Gun Supply. So, I don't have an option of feeling or trying before I buy.

It's looking more and more like the p225 may be the best quality gun for the price...

Thanks- keep the suggestions coming!

Thank you,
Michael

BgDmSWEDE
02-28-2010, 2:12 AM
It's more about caliber than gun. At close range (7yds) you can hit most anyone with a reasonable gun mfgr. A .22-.25 hurts, a 9mm stings like a bit@h, a .38 heavy and mag really screws up your day, a .40 or 10mm hurts abit more, a .44 special or worse mag will cause severe hemorage and possibly death, a .454 cassul to .500 S&W is probably terminal. You decide.

BgDmSWEDE
02-28-2010, 2:15 AM
p.s. just be sure you can hit anyone at 20'... it sounds easy but it's not with a handgun.

SJgunguy24
02-28-2010, 2:27 AM
It's more about caliber than gun. At close range (7yds) you can hit most anyone with a reasonable gun mfgr. A .22-.25 hurts, a 9mm stings like a bit@h, a .38 heavy and mag really screws up your day, a .40 or 10mm hurts abit more, a .44 special or worse mag will cause severe hemorage and possibly death, a .454 cassul to .500 S&W is probably terminal. You decide.

I don't care what caliber or bullet type your hit with, shot placement is what counts the most.

Thats where control come into play. Can you reliably hit center mass with a 4 round string? While yes a 500 S&W will punch a big hole, how about your follow up shot? I'll take my G17 anyday over some uncontrolable beast that I'll only get one shot with. I'll drill center mass strings all day long with zero affect from recoil, fast accurate follow up shots are more important then the biggest hole you can put through a persons arm. People do flinch when they know there is a BIG boom coming.

To the OP, look around I got my G26 for 300$ a couple years ago.

JBird33
02-28-2010, 2:29 AM
If it if for the wife as well, OP, make sure she has no problem racking the slide on an auto. My girl has a hard time with it so we are getting her a revolver for that very reason.

HCz
02-28-2010, 2:40 AM
I'd go with those who suggest Glock, XD or S&W M&P.

Given the two option, I'd go with RIA 1911, but only because there are only two options.

Problem with P225 is that some older versions don't go well with hollow point ammunitions.

I highly recommned you to look at other options too.

asgalindez
02-28-2010, 3:33 AM
If you decide you can live with polymer:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/promos/SW_M&P_LoadUp_Pistol.jpg
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/promos/SW_Sigma_Deal.jpg

phoenix02
02-28-2010, 7:34 AM
Wow, this thread went to interesting places fast.

Thanks for the input, everyone! I didn't mean for this to be a "name the caliber" debate, but rather an all around choosing of a firearm discussion.

.45, given the same projectile type, JHP, punching a hole in the same place, is going to do more damage. It's a simple matter of physics.

Does that mean the 9mm is any less of a round? I don't know... I think I'd have to talk to all the people who have died from properly placed .22 LR rounds to be sure.

I know I don't have the experience that some of you have, but it seems to me, as I said in my last post, that hitting the target- hopefully multiple times- is far more importand that 1 shot kill in close quarters armed combat, or adrenaline fueled home defense. Also, I'm looking for something to use glasser rounds with so that I don't kill my new baby or my neighbor's. The kinetic energy of a .454 casul, or .500 smith would probably still send those fragmented rounds out the other side of a couple walls like a shotgun blast. Kinda defeats the purpose.

Now, if you're looking for intimidation factor, with the intruder not having a firearm, I'll take a .460, .500 or 50AE any day. Nothing says holy s$*# like a little 5' 1" blonde girl running out of the bedroom with a gun almost as big as she is pointing at you!

Thanks,
Michael

will227457
02-28-2010, 7:39 AM
to the OP I vote for a used glock, or the sig...both are excellent guns, don't get caught up in a caliber debate with a bunch of guys who can't hit the broad side of a barn. Buy a 9mm and a ton of ammo and practice, practice , practice.

Greg-Dawg
02-28-2010, 7:47 AM
Try before you buy I always say.

Give Glock a try also.

SCMA-1
02-28-2010, 9:24 AM
Turners has some SIG P228 police trade ins this week on sale (limited quantities):

http://turners.com/engage/displayads.php

bsg
02-28-2010, 10:44 AM
it is impressive that you are approaching this purchase in a methodical manner; i would invest wisely in the actual gun itself; that is the big ticket item. the quality of training is more important than the amount of ammo you buy; yes more ammo, more practice. without the proper training the more ammo you shoot the more bad habits may be entrenched, that even with proper training later may be difficult to eliminate. you haven't mentioned how proficient you are with a handgun, or perhaps i missed that. what about your wife? i hope i have not offended you in any way; your approach is a solid one. i am just suggesting you think very hard about the training prior to the subject of autonomous practice. i believe the training is the beginning of the practice. by the way, Turners currently has a sale on Sig P228 trade ins that have some historical value as well. your wife may find the grip a bit bulky, and the P225 may then be a better option; P225 has great grip perimeter for large hands and small. what a great team project for you and your wife. good luck with your acquisition....



-Brady-

bsg
02-28-2010, 10:56 AM
Michael... i just read more of this thread you posted and... Top Gun Supply is a reputable place to purchase, and with a great reputation. i have made many parts and accessory purchases from them myself. i mention this in response to you saying you are considering making purchase from that vendor. there are also some good dealers that are members on this forum; cruise calguns and you'll find them and what others have to say about them.... one other thing; welcome to the forum.

SVRider
02-28-2010, 11:03 AM
Man, this thread is all over the place.

To the OP, I think there is a reason that the general consensus is polymer framed (i.e. Glock, XD, M&P). They have proven themselves simple, reliable and (relatively) inexpensive.

I love 1911's, but if the two of you are not so familiar, I would advise against. The reason being the controls although not overly so, are a bit more complicated and require lots of practice to build muscle memory to be able to react in a sudden life or death situation.

By comparison, for the most part the three mentioned above do not have any extra manually manipulated safeties involved. They have good safety systems that are all automatically disengaged as part of the firing sequence. They are revolver-like simple....pick up, aim, squeeze and the pistol will fire.

A 1911 has a one or two extra steps, and although not that complicated may be easily forgotten for a few seconds in a panic situation....seconds that could cost you.

If you were to buy a Glock, you can get a .22 top end for about $250 that will allow for lots of inexpensive practice.

As for caliber, since it seems you have no standard capacity magazines already in your possession, you will be limited to 10 rounds. That being the case, I would recommend buy the largest caliber that both you and your wife can control well. The 9mm/.40/.45 debate has raged for years and has no signs of stopping any time in the near future. Modern ammunition design has significantly narrowed any difference between the calibers. They will all work as designed.

The more important part is for you to be able to put them where you want them on command. Buy whatever you and your wife can most comfortably/effectively shoot (renting many different calibers/models would be good advice here to make a decision) and practice, practice, practice....and even better yet, use some of the money to get some training.

Just my $0.02....I hope it helps.

Good luck with your decision.

cindynles
02-28-2010, 11:18 AM
I have to agree with SVRider. A polymer framed handgun gives you the most bang for your buck. If it were me in your situation I would be looking for a used Glock, XD, or M&P. If you want a new one then I would highly recommend a Ruger P95. The MSRP for a new one is $300 - $330. Turners has them on sale on a pretty regular basis.

P95 = $300
Tax= $27
Safety Cert = $30
DROS = $25

You are out the door for $382.

Trendkill
02-28-2010, 11:26 AM
To the OP....out of the two choices...the Sig might be the best bet. A 1911 can be finicky at times....and unless you want to fiddle around with your only handgun...Id stick with the aforementioned.

Now...for my opinion. :rolleyes:

As much as you dont like the feel of Glocks...or any POLY-gun....they flat out do the job. I personally would find a cheap Glock , MP , XD etc in 9mm....with the money saved , buy hella ammo and practice till the cows come home. Blessed is the man who has one handgun with which he is quite familiar....

All those caliber debates are ridiculous....a well placed 9mm is going to be just as good as a well placed 45.

2c5s
02-28-2010, 11:28 AM
I just bought a S&W Sigma for my wife. $300 and 4 mags. Nothing wrong at all with it. It's accurate, feels better than any Glock I've ever handled, eats anything I put in it and it's priced right. I would gladly buy another for me.

SJgunguy24
02-28-2010, 11:38 AM
To the Op, you don't have a location. If you want to try a Glock I have 3 you can shoot to your hearts content.

Another very solid inexpensive choice is a Ruger P series. I bought my P944 for under 300$ NIB years ago but they are a great value and built like a Mac truck.

Trendkill
02-28-2010, 11:44 AM
I just bought a S&W Sigma for my wife. $300 and 4 mags. Nothing wrong at all with it. It's accurate, feels better than any Glock I've ever handled, eats anything I put in it and it's priced right. I would gladly buy another for me.

Good idea....

The only drawback on the Sigma's is the trigger , which is easily remedied so I hear.

Rob454
02-28-2010, 11:46 AM
You can pick up a Ruger either used or new for anywhere around 300-400$ depending on caliber and model. most ruger 9mm sell for about 300 the 45 for about 400 sometimes less. ive never seen a ruger that was not reliable. Im sure there are some stories but for the most part they are reliable. There are some whi will tell you Rugers suck theire ugly bla bla bla but I rather have a reliable "ugly" pistol than a good looking unreliable one.

PEZHEAD265
02-28-2010, 12:06 PM
Hi practicing with a 22 out of a 45 is useles because they are 2 different animals.You will make follow up shots much quicker with a 22 then you ever would do with a 45 witch makes practice wiyh it useles.A 9 would be a better choice if your wife can rack the slide [ditto for the 45].I say get her a 38 she shot it before and they always go bang if not keep pulling the trigger.I have no connections but Summit Gun BROKER has S&W 64 4 inch for 275.00 and that leaves alot of money for ammo.The choice of ammo for the 38 is from mild to wild and it is a proven man stopper for years.Shot placement is everything even with a bigger cal.I would rather have my wife hit you 3 times out of a 38 then miss twice with a 45.

The S&W 64's are third from the bottom

socalshooting
02-28-2010, 1:09 PM
Back on track, welcome to the forum Michael.


Are the .22LR 1911 conversions worth it? Does the practice, at shorter ranges, help in your target aquisition and aim when transformed back to a .45?

In terms of sight picture and trigger squeeze, you will definitely see a gain, but in terms of recoil management, .22lr won't do anything for it because of the almost non-existent recoil on a .22lr. I personally prefer to "train as you fight" but cheap training is better than no training, especially with the price of ammo these days. But then again, you'll probably be spending money on a conversion kit anyways.

If you're looking for economical factors, 9mm will much better prepare you for .45 than .22lr. To be honest with you, I can't tell the difference between some loads of .45ACP than 9mm in terms of recoil. My gf gets better groups with a Kimber 1911 (mainly because that trigger feels like a wet dream) than my Springfield XD. The 5" barrel on the Kimber also helped her reduce sighting error a lot more than the 4" on the XD. She still has problems with the DA on my .357 revolver. She now owns a Beretta 92fs and loves it. That's why I would steer away from a Sig P225, even though it is a very good pistol. It is better to go for a full size 5" barrel gun which is easier to shoot for beginners than a 4" compact, which is designed for the purpose of being more compact.

Don't let anybody intimidate you or your wife into not being able to handle a .45. It takes more skill than strength to control recoil.

That aside, have you ever heard the saying "placement is king, capacity is queen, stopping power is just a lowly duke"? Since california can't really ban shot placement (that'll be the day), they ban capacity instead, yet no pistol calibers have really been banned. Know that no pistol caliber will GUARANTEE a 1-shot stoppage. Put another round in the intruder to double the stopping power. Trust me, cops are more afraid of a person holding a 17rnd glock than an 8rnd 1911. Don't discount the effectiveness of 9mm since there are so many good home defense loads out there.

Of course since CA only allows 10rnd magazines anyways, it doesn't hurt to own a .45 either. Just remember to watch your wallet.

Hope this helps and good luck.

epic4444
02-28-2010, 1:12 PM
Personally started with the SIG, you and your wife will be able to learn on that caliber and platform. Then for your second handgun get a nicer 1911, RIA is okay, but honestly they lack where other 1911 excel. That way your wife and you each have a defense pistol.

Eastbayguy
02-28-2010, 1:14 PM
http://www.summitgunbroker.com/Sig_229_NS_used.html

TheSorb
02-28-2010, 1:31 PM
...If you want a new one then I would highly recommend a Ruger P95...

Absolutely go with a Ruger P95...reasonable, rugged & reliable!;)

vengerltc
02-28-2010, 1:39 PM
9mm is good all around. For your wife the .45 may be a bit much. I have a few of everything and love the 1911 but find them to be a bit more testy until you get them right. Sig tends to eat anything out for the box. Can't go wrong with a good sig. I paid 425 for my Steyr M9. That would be a really good choice for cheap on a new gun.

vengerltc
02-28-2010, 1:43 PM
Also several people mentioned ruger. Good and inexpensive but the frame size may be problematic for a woman with smaller hands. The have a bit of heft to them. A consideration on comfort.

I was watching smallville the other night and the bad guy shoots some one was a p90 or p94. My first thought was man dont shoot with a $350 gun. If you are going to get taken out at least make it something high end.

tbhracing
02-28-2010, 2:08 PM
Glock 19- The way to go in terms of weight, accuracy, price, maintenance, cleaning and resale value. Also easy to learn with and become comfortable with.

Mr. J
02-28-2010, 2:42 PM
I bought my wife a M&P 9mm. It fit her hands really well.

xxsleepyxx
02-28-2010, 2:49 PM
I have to agree with SVRider. A polymer framed handgun gives you the most bang for your buck. If it were me in your situation I would be looking for a used Glock, XD, or M&P. If you want a new one then I would highly recommend a Ruger P95. The MSRP for a new one is $300 - $330. Turners has them on sale on a pretty regular basis.

P95 = $300
Tax= $27
Safety Cert = $30
DROS = $25

You are out the door for $382.


Good calculation. Socalshooting was helpful as well.

Artery
02-28-2010, 2:51 PM
It's more about caliber than gun. At close range (7yds) you can hit most anyone with a reasonable gun mfgr. A .22-.25 hurts, a 9mm stings like a bit@h, a .38 heavy and mag really screws up your day, a .40 or 10mm hurts abit more, a .44 special or worse mag will cause severe hemorage and possibly death, a .454 cassul to .500 S&W is probably terminal. You decide.

Yeah..those 9mm just sting and 10mm just hurts...right... 9mm hollowpoints stop an attacker with one shot to the torso 91% of the time. (which is actually higher than .44mag btw...)

I don't know where people get this idea that just because there are more powerful rounds in existence that less powerful ones are ineffective. Plenty of people aren't breathing anymore because of 9mm, .380, and even .25 rounds. Only hits count. I dont know of any professional that would encourage a new shooter (or even an experienced one) to use adouble action .500S&W mag for self defense. Only five shots, heavy trigger, heavy gun, slow follow up, etc etc. I can't stand it when I see people with D/A revolvers shooting tiny groups (usually cocking between shots) thinking they can do that kind of shooting under stress, in the dark, while getting shot at. The group that will save your life is not the one you can make doing slow fire in a brightly lit shooting range concentrating on your breathing and waiting for the shot to break, its the group that you can shoot under stress, in the dark, at a dark blob of a target while being afraid for your life and the life of your family.

People talk conjecture about having all his horsepower behind big .44mag rounds compared to 9mm but real world evidence shows that 9mm is just as or more effective than .44mag in terms of stopping power, and no one is going to argue that a .44 has an easier followup shot.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

People who argue with that chart will talk about confirmation bias, that better shooters (cops) tend to use 9mm/.40/.45, that the sample size is too small, etc, but their counter examples are just their own conjecture based on comparing muzzle energy, not results. I trust the science.

Most home defense shoots are similar to police shootouts (eg extremely close range, in low/no light, etc) and cops across the country choose high capacity 9mm and 40S&W automatics, with some people still favoring .45s. I would get the sig for a new shooter, it has no safety and is ready to fire immediately. FWIW I have a 226 and a 1911 and keep either a 1911 or a glock by the bedside. I feel that for me I'm more likely to get a "hit" with a 1911 because of how I shoot. Its a very personal decision.

Sorry for the long post. In summary, only hits count, get whatever you can get hits with the easiest that has decent stopping power.

cineski
02-28-2010, 6:13 PM
+1 on this.

Once you make up your mind.... www.galleryofguns.com

Trendkill
02-28-2010, 6:13 PM
I bought my wife a M&P 9mm. It fit her hands really well.

Same here......she loves it.

Although....she has really started to take a shine to the Colt 1911. Great....ammo prices are bad enough for me using 45....now its x2.

cineski
02-28-2010, 6:15 PM
:rolleyes: WTF? A .22 will put you down, so will a 9. Anyone who choses a .454 mag and higher for home defense has a deficiency of some sort.

It's more about caliber than gun. At close range (7yds) you can hit most anyone with a reasonable gun mfgr. A .22-.25 hurts, a 9mm stings like a bit@h, a .38 heavy and mag really screws up your day, a .40 or 10mm hurts abit more, a .44 special or worse mag will cause severe hemorage and possibly death, a .454 cassul to .500 S&W is probably terminal. You decide.

cineski
02-28-2010, 6:19 PM
To the OP, do NOT get a 1911 for a HD gun. I just simply don't believe in them (and I've owned them). Don't get anything with an external safety and a hair trigger unless you're going to practice like crazy to the extent that every handgun you pick up you flip the safety off wether it has one or not. With your current choices, I'd go with the 225. It's reliable but has a trigger platform that I feel leaves a lot to be desired in a HD handgun for someone that may not practice a lot. I strongly recommend getting a used Glock 19. It's the perfect gun for what you're looking for. DON'T buy a gun for how it looks or how it feels. Buy a gun for it's reliability first, trigger platform second. I've owned them all and have spoken to a lot of trainers who praise Glock to no end. Never wanted to own one myself until I shot it (after years of gun ownership and shunning Glocks) and I suddenly got it when I did. I just don't believe in external safeties or DA/SA. A single, constant trigger pull is the best option available IMO.

tbhracing
02-28-2010, 6:54 PM
To the OP, do NOT get a 1911 for a HD gun. I just simply don't believe in them (and I've owned them). Don't get anything with an external safety and a hair trigger unless you're going to practice like crazy to the extent that every handgun you pick up you flip the safety off wether it has one or not.

SMART, very smart advice.

I strongly recommend getting a used Glock 19. It's the perfect gun for what you're looking for. DON'T buy a gun for how it looks or how it feels. Buy a gun for it's reliability first, trigger platform second. I've owned them all and have spoken to a lot of trainers who praise Glock to no end. Never wanted to own one myself until I shot it (after years of gun ownership and shunning Glocks) and I suddenly got it when I did. I just don't believe in external safeties or DA/SA. A single, constant trigger pull is the best option available IMO.

MORE SMART!!!

Bobotheclown
02-28-2010, 10:09 PM
I recommend a Glock 19. Low maintenance, consistent trigger pull and dead reliable. You can get a used one or do what I did and join GSSF for $35, order gun from one of there authorized sellers using GSSF coupon and get it shipped to a local dealer. Total came out to be $575ish for a new one with night sights and 3 magazines.

pepsi2451
02-28-2010, 10:49 PM
In my opinion either one would be fine. Go with whatever one you think you will enjoy shooting more, that way you will be more likely to practice. Then get the other one later. I have a Sig p226 in 9mm and a RIA 1911. I have them both on my CCW and feel comfortable carrying either. I never have problems with either one aside from some issues with super cheap 1911 mags.

cineski
03-01-2010, 10:01 AM
I thought I'd elaborate on my dislike of both SAO and DA/SA. Consider it food for thought. This (DA/SA) platform is good for those who think a heavy DA first pull will leave them safer than having a lighter DAO trigger. This is first, not true if you have proper trigger control (finger OFF the trigger until ready to fire) and second, has no thoughts to what happens after a shooting. Just like the SAO platform must use an external safety, the DA/SA platform has a decocker, which is in essence a post firing safety. If you're involved in a SD shooting, I can only imagine a person will be shaken up severely. So instead of having a constant trigger that takes a deliberate pull, you now have a hair trigger that must use a post-fired safety. Pre safety (SAO) or post safety (DA/SA and SAO) has no place on a defensive gun for the occasional shooter (even the once a month shooter) because you simply don't know how you'll react in a horrible situation until you're there. And with marginal training that can set you up for problems, either forgetting to flip the 1911 safety or forgetting to de-cock the DA/SA or reengage the SAO thumb safety. That's why I love the Glock trigger platform so much. It's constant and there's no thought in it except to deliberately fire which can be a life saver in a life or death situation. Both before and afterwards.

Tanegashima
03-01-2010, 10:02 AM
Get a Ruger P85 used, I got mine for $150! I've put 4,000 rounds since I bought it and not a SINGLE malfunction.

Looks like a brick, but it sure is a tank!

evidens83
03-01-2010, 10:08 AM
Sig P6 or Glock G19!

runninmike
03-01-2010, 10:18 AM
Hello,

I've been a long time lurker here, ever since I bought my SKS 5 years ago. I just registered so that I could ask this question-

I am looking for a handgun for home defense. my long arms won't cut it, and with a new baby in the house, the economy going down, more desperate people doing stupid things in the media, etc, I want something.

Budget is $4-500, OTD- including handgun cert. I'm in the High Desert, and have had NO luck finding anything used, worthwhile, in this price range. I am planning on calling around the IE on monday and seeing if there's anything at any shops down there.

I've narrowed it down to two options so far-
1. Rock Island Arms 1911A1, new, OTD for around $500. I would then, in the next year, get 3 more mags and a .22LR conversion for target practice without the cost of .45acp ammo.

2. Sig p225, Zurich police trade in, for $435, OTD. I would then purchase a respring kit for $25 and 3 more mags.

Here's my cost breakdown over the next year, before the new ammo law goes into effect next Feb.-

option 1-
RIA 1911- $500
500 Rds .45- $200
.22 convert- $300
1500 rds .22- $ 60
mags- $ 45
TOTAL- $1095

option 2-
Sig- $335
springs- $ 25
2000 rds 9mm-$560
mags- $120
TOTAL- $1040

The gun will be used by myself and my wife, who is rather petite. For that reason, I was leaning towards the Sig, but the 1911 has always been a mystical gun for me, and parts and hop ups are alot cheaper and readily available. I also like the stopping power of the .45 compared to the 9mm- either will do the job, I just think the .45 will do it a little better. I also think that my wife will get used to a .45 after many range outings.

The big factor in all this is the cost of ammo- 9mm is far cheaper than .45. The less expensive the ammo, the more likely we are to go to the range, the more experience we have, the better we can utilize it. I could buy a dream gun, like a Kimber Gold Cup target 1911, but if I can't afford more than one mag of ammo for it after that, what good is it if I miss the guy that's standing in my livingroom with a .380 that he WAS able to afford the ammo to practice with?

Are the .22LR 1911 conversions worth it? Does the practice, at shorter ranges, help in your target aquisition and aim when transformed back to a .45?

Sorry for my long winded post, but any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Michael

Maybe you and wife have a few range dates where they rent out handguns and try several different models on a few occasions. Go home and discuss it thoroughly with your her and choose between yourselves. If there is a sense of wary on choice, it is always a good idea to start off with a simple 22 lr handgun that you like and find user friendly. After getting used to it with the wife, it will be easier to decide a larger caliber at a later date. As a 2nd, a 38 spec revolver is almost always a good decision for multiple users to get familiar, and generally fits the cost effective niche too.
Best-Mike

j1133s
03-01-2010, 10:49 AM
.22 convert- $300


Are the .22LR 1911 conversions worth it? Does the practice, at shorter ranges, help in your target aquisition and aim when transformed back to a .45?


No, not at the price you listed. .22LR conversion isn't worth it in your situation.

For $300, get a .22LR pistol first and shoot well with it. then get whichever center fire pistol you want after a couple months. You'll be able to really hit whatever you want to hit w/o wasting a lot of more expensive ammo learning how to shoot.

Lots of .22LR pistols can be had for < $300... at least here in the bay area.

MilSim
03-01-2010, 11:55 AM
RIA.......... Can be modified over time to shoot better(Even though it does out of the box) and customized. The sig used is definetly good but one that cheap has probably had allot of rounds and its only a matter of time before something goes.
Just had the same conflict over a used P226 and a new CZ SP-01, chose the CZ. If you want good prices on used sigs SoCal Guns in San Diego they have allot, wonder why?

Maplewood
03-01-2010, 4:04 PM
Get a Rock Island 1911 and change the grips, nice inexpensive big bore gun