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View Full Version : What happened in LA with the BOHICA blowup?


LDBennett
02-27-2010, 6:22 PM
I'm sorry if this has been covered before but does anyone have the real info on what happened and why it happened last month in Los Angeles when a 50DTC BOHICA gun blew up and seriously damaged the shooter's left hand.

Is the shooter OK?

Why did it happen (facts, not conjecture as the last post I read on this incident had lots of assumption and falsehoods in it, according to the guy's father)?

We am right on the verge of buying the base model BOHICA and need to know if the gun conversion has a serious problem or not.

If the BOHICA turns out to have a serious flaw then what is the next 50DTC conversion for an AR-15 lower, price wise. We are straining to get to the BOHICA price let alone some top of the line alternate. We intend to only shoot it occasionally, not in competition, or even on a regular basis but a couple of times a year, about 10 to 20 shots or less each session for each of us (my son-in-law and me).

Any factual info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

LDBennett

berg
02-27-2010, 10:43 PM
:beatdeadhorse5:

There's a sticky right at the top of this forum with all your answers.

wildcard
02-27-2010, 10:51 PM
Here you go, a little more testimony in here: http://www.accurateshooter.com/bulletin.html

Fiveohmike
02-28-2010, 9:30 AM
Damn, so it was either improperly sized ammo or bad chambering?



From range reports, it appears that the shooter had been struggling to chamber previous rounds, and was having trouble closing the bolt. After talking with one of the rangemasters, a poster on AR15.com reported: “The guy was using new reloads that weren’t exactly fitting well into his chamber. [The shooter] was slamming the bolt handle with his palm trying to get the cases to lock in. The guy was also slamming the bolt forward full force from the rearmost position back and forth trying to ram the cases into chamber in an attempt to squeeze the rounds in so the bolt could close. Finally, on one of the attempts … the possibly stuck firing pin rams into the primer and explodes the round when he slams the bolt forward (zero lug engagement hence the KB) and shooter puts himself into a world of hurt.”

Lessons Learned — Don’t Try to Force Oversize Ammo into a Chamber
By all reports, the shooter’s ammo wasn’t fitting his chamber properly. In an effort to force the ammo into the chamber, he worked the bolt with excessive force. That MAY have caused the firing pin to extend or the hammer to fall without the trigger being pulled. One theory is that the trigger system may have been modified, allowing the hammer to fall from the force of slamming the bolt forward. Others have speculated that the firing pin may have failed to retract because the bolt handle was over-torqued — a safety issue listed in the BOHICA manual.

Whatever caused the out-of-battery firing, it appears that improperly-sized ammo (or a poorly-cut chamber) was the root cause of the problems. If you go to a range and find your bolt does not close easily over the ammo — STOP SHOOTING — don’t try to force the issue. Disaster may result. To paraphrase Johnnie Cochran: “If the ammo doesn’t fit, it’s time to quit”.



Simple advice I guess. Many shooters have them here, and I am waiting mine. “If the ammo doesn’t fit, it’s time to quit”.

drclark
02-28-2010, 10:06 AM
From the description above, I could see a scenario of the bolt handle becoming over torqued over the course of shooting if that much force/man handling was required to chamber the ammo.

If such a scenario is indeed what happened, the shooter trying to force ill-fitting ammo into the chamber would probably be the immediate cause. However, it would probably be wise on bohica's part to change the way the bolt/bolt handle is designed to prevent the possibility of the firing pin binding on the bolt handle if it is or becomes overtorqued.

Regardless of the cause, does anyone have an update on how well the shooter is recovering and his prognosis. Hope he is doing ok.

i1800collect
02-28-2010, 12:27 PM
Are you serious? Do a damn search.

instead of being incredibly unhelpful and rude, why don't you post a few threads where there has been legitimate info posted about the incident? i did a search and all i came up with was the original thread that deteriorated into a BOHICA flamefest and rampant speculation, the thread kes stickied at the top of this forum, and this thread.

retired
02-28-2010, 12:43 PM
ChrisO, if you have nothing to contribute other than this type of comment, don't.

Same for you Omega.

LDBennett
02-28-2010, 5:17 PM
I started this post to find out what happened and why. I was unable to find the "stickie" and the link went nowhere that I could see answered my questions. The previous posts, that degraded into BOHICA slams and other derogatory info, was so full of information that was controversial that I wanted a fresh post that hopefully had the correct info.

Does everyone agree with Fiveohmike's answer?

This is not an idle post by me. I want to buy a BOHICA conversion if it is safe. Is it safe?

If I were rich, I'd buy the best one going but I am not and have a budget. The BOHICA is about the least expensive way into 50 cal shooting I can find, especially if you already have the lower, which I do. I'm not a competitor. I have no super accuracy requirements. I just want the gun to shoot 50 cal ammo and not blow up in the process. I intend to reload safe ammo for it and to make every effort to verify the ammo is correct before pulling the trigger.

A little help here would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

LDBennett

aermotor
02-28-2010, 6:53 PM
It's near the top of this forum and is called: Angeles/BOHICA Incident FUD (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=258916)

No need for another thread on this...

Booshanky
02-28-2010, 7:12 PM
I started this post to find out what happened and why. I was unable to find the "stickie" and the link went nowhere that I could see answered my questions. The previous posts, that degraded into BOHICA slams and other derogatory info, was so full of information that was controversial that I wanted a fresh post that hopefully had the correct info.

Does everyone agree with Fiveohmike's answer?

This is not an idle post by me. I want to buy a BOHICA conversion if it is safe. Is it safe?

If I were rich, I'd buy the best one going but I am not and have a budget. The BOHICA is about the least expensive way into 50 cal shooting I can find, especially if you already have the lower, which I do. I'm not a competitor. I have no super accuracy requirements. I just want the gun to shoot 50 cal ammo and not blow up in the process. I intend to reload safe ammo for it and to make every effort to verify the ammo is correct before pulling the trigger.

A little help here would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

LDBennett

I'm far from the first person to be a huge dork by telling you to do a search, but really man, it's literally right at the top of the forum you posted in. I really don't mean to be rude, but you can't just ask questions like this when the Administrators of this forum have gone out of their way to help you out. And believe me, I've got my own issues with the Administrators here so don't think I'm trying to stick up for them.

Just read that sticky, you'll get all the answers you need.

-Mark

Seesm
02-28-2010, 7:56 PM
Boo is right... It is at the top easy to see... Btw I have a guy I worked with that has a BOHICA and it works fine... On any fireamr you could have troubles... leanr the basics and your probably good to go...

Fiveohmike
02-28-2010, 7:59 PM
That sticky has almost zero info, i still had to hunt around.

In either case if it was A) Poor Chamber manufacturing or B) Operator error (forcing a mis-sized reload with his hand) this should have been felt before hand.

If the damn bullet doesnt want to fit, dont try and force it.

There are tons of people who have zero feeding issues, dont have to use an force to close th bolt.

Anyways, once my BOHICA MkIII gets here ill let you know how it goes.

Mike

Omega13device
02-28-2010, 8:24 PM
Ok, in my effort to be a little more helpful, search the Centerfire Rifles thread for "bohica" and you'll find it a little ways down on the first page of results.

Booshanky
02-28-2010, 8:32 PM
That sticky has almost zero info, i still had to hunt around.

In either case if it was A) Poor Chamber manufacturing or B) Operator error (forcing a mis-sized reload with his hand) this should have been felt before hand.

If the damn bullet doesnt want to fit, dont try and force it.

There are tons of people who have zero feeding issues, dont have to use an force to close th bolt.

Anyways, once my BOHICA MkIII gets here ill let you know how it goes.

Mike

I'd be more than happy to hear your report. We're all a fan of any gun that can still fire a .50cal projectile here in CA, so don't worry, no love lost.

As far as I can tell it was just a fluke. He wasn't hammering in rounds, and he wasn't handloading. Just a mishap that I suppose can happen to anyone engaging in an inherently dangerous sport that we're involved in.

-Mark

ke6guj
02-28-2010, 8:47 PM
As far as I can tell it was just a fluke. He wasn't hammering in rounds, and he wasn't handloading. Just a mishap that I suppose can happen to anyone engaging in an inherently dangerous sport that we're involved in.

-MarkI'm pretty sure he was handloading that .50DTC ammo. There is a photo of a bunch of ammo laid out, numbered like 215, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, etc. That would probably be the powder charge in each round, if he was testing to find the best load.

wildcard
02-28-2010, 8:55 PM
That sticky has almost zero info, i still had to hunt around.


Good man. Do research and reach your own conclusions.

Fiveohmike
02-28-2010, 10:00 PM
Good man. Do research and reach your own conclusions.

Bingo. Thats the reason I still ordered one, even after the KB incident. To me, everything points to one of the two conclusions above, but both should have been caught ahead of time. If I get it, and its not feeding rounds properly, I am not going to force it. I will call it a day and call the maker. However, if the rounds load cleanly, then I will have an awesome day. I will NEVER force the bolt closed.

Mike

LDBennett
03-01-2010, 5:50 AM
Sorry, but I am new to this forum and haven't yet used it much. The problem was finding the "top of the forum" but I did. The Sticky tells me absolutely nothing about why this happened.

Have the lawyers got to everyone? Whose "eye witness report" is accurate and whose info in the first posting is conjecture?

Can't anyone but Fiveohmike's offer details on the gun? Is his posting accurate? Where is the truth in this matter?

I do hope the shooter is OK but right now I am concerned about MY potential safety if I buy a BOHICA conversion. I stated my case as to why I have to aim at the market low price conversion. I would like answers as to what the shooter did wrong, if anything. Or if the ammo was at fault. Or more importantly, was the BOHICA conversion at fault? Is that too much to ask?

LDBennett

supersonic
03-01-2010, 6:21 AM
Guys, I really hate to post, yet again, on this. But if you look at the original picture of the blown Bohica, zoom in REAL close. See that hammer pin? Actually, you DON'T, because it was not in all the way! The jolt of the bolt going forward with force caused the hammer to drop before the bolt was locked. It had nothing to do with a stuck firing pin. The hammer pin wasn't installed completely. End of story, IMO.:cool:

50 Shooter
03-01-2010, 9:53 AM
You can go here http://www.primalrights.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=622 and read the thread. Just remember that there's alot of speculation on exactly what happened. Personally I doubt we'll ever know as it will be settled between the two parties.

If you can save up a few more bucks, look into State Arms/Eastridge Gun Co. or Serbu. Both offer their rifles in 50 DTC and have huge followings. The SA has won plenty of 1000 yard matches and is a nice rifle. Serbu is a great field rifle and Mark will build the rifle with a match chamber/barrel and set trigger if you want those features.

www.statearms.com
www.serbu.com