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View Full Version : Purchase of a fully functional rifle legal?


Mike375
02-27-2010, 12:07 AM
I apologize if this question's been asked and answered, but I haven't seen this addressed elsewhere. Looking at the CA AW Flowchart, it seems that it would be legal in California to purchase a complete weapon as long as it conforms to certain requirements. If so, I'm considering a Noveske N4 series rifle (16" barrel and overall length > 30") with a bullet button as this would not meet the criteria of a detachable magazine.

Any insight would be appreciated.

soopafly
02-27-2010, 12:13 AM
Sounds to me like you've done your homework. The rifle you described is GTG. Remember to only use 10-round mags in a Bullet Button equipped rifle.

Barney Gumble
02-27-2010, 12:16 AM
I apologize if this question's been asked and answered, but I haven't seen this addressed elsewhere. Looking at the CA AW Flowchart, it seems that it would be legal in California to purchase a complete weapon as long as it conforms to certain requirements. If so, I'm considering a Noveske N4 series rifle (16" barrel and overall length > 30") with a bullet button as this would not meet the criteria of a detachable magazine.

Any insight would be appreciated.

That's a nice rifle and yes you'd be good to go with a bullet button.

And you win the award for the only guy in recent memory to have done his homework by the time of his first post. Well done and welcome to calguns!

soopafly
02-27-2010, 12:16 AM
I'm considering a Noveske N4 series rifle
You mean something like this?:D
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h59/soopafly_photos/gunz/PICT0999.jpg

Carnivore
02-27-2010, 12:17 AM
Or you can build one too...well assemble one for the more part. As long as you follow the chart an don't add anything you shouldn't.

Mike375
02-27-2010, 12:21 AM
Thanks for the quick responses. I'll definitely remember the 10 round mag limit. I just wanted to make sure considering how confusing the gun laws are in California. For instance, I ordered a Les Baer TRS in the past and the TRS in a blue finish was legal, but an identical TRS in a hard chrome finish was not. Go figure.

Mike375
02-27-2010, 12:25 AM
Or you can build one too...well assemble one for the more part. As long as you follow the chart an don't add anything you shouldn't.

That's what I originally planned to do, but I like firing them more than building them (I'm lazy that way).

soopafly
02-27-2010, 12:25 AM
I'll definitely remember the 10 round mag limit.
And if you make the rifle featureless(no category III AW features)you can use 30, 40 or 100 round DETACHABLE(YAY!) mags.

Mike375
02-27-2010, 12:31 AM
That's a nice rifle and yes you'd be good to go with a bullet button.

And you win the award for the only guy in recent memory to have done his homework by the time of his first post. Well done and welcome to calguns!

I appreciate it! I read all the PDFs in the "new member" thread just so I wouldn't be annoying. Maybe overkill, but it's better than being annoying.

Cokebottle
02-27-2010, 12:35 AM
Thanks for the quick responses. I'll definitely remember the 10 round mag limit. I just wanted to make sure considering how confusing the gun laws are in California. For instance, I ordered a Les Baer TRS in the past and the TRS in a blue finish was legal, but an identical TRS in a hard chrome finish was not. Go figure.
That's because the blue model has been on the roster before the LCI and mag disconnect requirements were added a year or two ago.

No mil-spec 1911 can ever be added to the roster the way the current requirements are written.

Mike375
02-27-2010, 12:36 AM
You mean something like this?:D
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h59/soopafly_photos/gunz/PICT0999.jpg

That is a very nice weapon. I'm thinking the N4 Light Low Profile w/ 16" barrel.

Mike375
02-27-2010, 12:40 AM
That's because the blue model has been on the roster before the LCI and mag disconnect requirements were added a year or two ago.

No mil-spec 1911 can ever be added to the roster the way the current requirements are written.

Got it. When I ordered it, the folks at the gun shop couldn't explain why. I spoke to Brenda at Les Baer and she confirmed that the hard chrome TRS wasn't submitted for approval whereas the blued TRS was.

Cokebottle
02-27-2010, 12:52 AM
Got it. When I ordered it, the folks at the gun shop couldn't explain why. I spoke to Brenda at Les Baer and she confirmed that the hard chrome TRS wasn't submitted for approval whereas the blued TRS was.
Wasn't submitted because they didn't want to send in 3 guns (and $25k) for a test that they knew would not pass.

Mike375
02-27-2010, 1:09 AM
Wasn't submitted because they didn't want to send in 3 guns (and $25k) for a test that they knew would not pass.

Doesn't seem to make sense that they'd have to submit multiple identical guns for testing simply because the finish is different. I'm sure it's a disincentive for many manufacturers from selling in California.

Cokebottle
02-27-2010, 1:32 AM
Doesn't seem to make sense that they'd have to submit multiple identical guns for testing simply because the finish is different. I'm sure it's a disincentive for many manufacturers from selling in California.
The different finish means a different model number.
DOJ doesn't care that a "FCKDoJ-1" is identical to a "FCKDoJ-2"... the different model number signifies a different gun. It may be identical in color, or there may have been production "improvements" that have rendered it an "unsafe handgun" in the eyes of the DOJ.

In the case of new testing standards, all currently rostered guns are grandfathered in, so long as the manufacturer pays to have the listing renewed. If they allow the listing to expire, they have to resubmit the gun and it will be tested to the new standards.

The drop test has been a part of the testing from the beginning.
More recently, they've added a requirement for a loaded chamber indicator, and a magazine disconnect... Removing the magazine must now engage a safety that will not allow the gun to be fired.

ponderosa
02-27-2010, 1:59 AM
"...FCKDoJ-1" is identical to a "FCKDoJ-2..."

I want those model numbers :43:

JimWest
02-27-2010, 7:23 AM
DOJ doesn't care that a "FCKDoJ-1" is identical to a "FCKDoJ-2"... the different model number signifies a different gun. It may be identical in color, or there may have been production "improvements" that have rendered it an "unsafe handgun" in the eyes of the DOJ.

This logic, this legal mumbo jumbo, :17: , no, no, must refrain....:41:
Uh...Time for beer. :chris:

aplinker
02-27-2010, 11:31 AM
OP: a well written request for reassurance.

Going with the N4 Light RECCE?

Consider this: you can get a free lower with the purchase of a Noveske upper. You can then build out the rifle identically to the complete rifle, saving between $300 and $500, due to the reduction in FET and cost of the lower.

Wasn't submitted because they didn't want to send in 3 guns (and $25k) for a test that they knew would not pass.

I don't understand this statement.

Back when they sent in the TRS they could have sent in all the finishes. They made a budgetary decision not to pay the extortion fees for multiple styles. They would have passed, just as the blued TRS did.

Mike375
02-27-2010, 11:45 AM
OP: a well written request for reassurance.

Going with the N4 Light RECCE?

Consider this: you can get a free lower with the purchase of a Noveske upper. You can then build out the rifle identically to the complete rifle, saving between $300 and $500, due to the reduction in FET and cost of the lower.



I don't understand this statement.

Back when they sent in the TRS they could have sent in all the finishes. They made a budgetary decision not to pay the extortion fees for multiple styles. They would have passed, just as the blued TRS did.

Yes, I'm considering the N4 Light Recce. Thanks for the heads-up on the lower. I also noticed that on Noveske's site and is probably the way to go since the trigger assembly is relatively straightforward.

Cokebottle
02-27-2010, 12:30 PM
Back when they sent in the TRS they could have sent in all the finishes. They made a budgetary decision not to pay the extortion fees for multiple styles. They would have passed, just as the blued TRS did.
Both models were introduced at the same time?
Okay, then yes... it simply was not submitted... and the 1911 platform itself won't pass today.