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pheyos
02-26-2010, 10:57 PM
Hi everyone,

I'm sorry if this has been asked before or if this is better posted in another category. I was reading The Complete Book of Handguns 2010 and I have a question about a certain safety feature on the Ed Brown Massad Ayoob Signature edition 1911.

Massad writes of features he wanted included to deal with what he calls "Problem 2," the legal aftermath of any self-defense gunfight. He writes: "Any 1911 that doesn't have an internal firing pin lock is at least theoretically prone to 'inertia discharge' if dropped. Ed Brown had already seen that one coming and created the package he calls the KC-SS-CAL. It stands for Kobra Carry (similar to the Executive Carry, but with different treatment of the grasping grooves) fitted with a light titanium firing pin and an extra heavy-duty firing pin spring."

Is the light firing pin/heavy-duty firing pin spring a feature worth seeking to get in or add to a 1911? I'll be honest, I don't own a 1911 but the Springfield GI is mighty tempting...

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

HCz
02-26-2010, 11:53 PM
Mas Ayoob sometimes thinks too much and comes up with things that is not practical. This seems to be one of them.

Bentot
02-27-2010, 11:00 AM
The Springfield GI use a titanium firing pin with heavier spring to pass the California drop test. I promptly replaced it with standard parts and took out the ILS out. The firing pin is (ironically) ED BROWN, Brownells part #087-205-826.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
02-27-2010, 11:14 AM
There is a certain kernel of truth in the concept... that is, if you drop a 1911-pattern pistol not so equipped, from a sufficient height, and it lands muzzle down on a hard surface, inertia could drive the firing pin forward with sufficient force to fire a chambered round. That concatenation of circumstances is not easy to assemble, and usually requires one or more operator failures to achieve. It doesn't happen very often.

That being said, I've not seen a single example of that in 30 years of combined military and law enforcement experience. My Colt Series 70 doesn't have it, and I don't worry about the possibility as long as I exercise good weapon handling habits.

The one good thing about it is that it allows a Series 70-pattern 1911 to be sold in California. I'd say buy it and do what Bentot did.

J-cat
02-27-2010, 11:19 AM
If one requires to avoid all possibility of a lawsuit, he should just kill himself.

OldLincoln
02-27-2010, 12:09 PM
The Springfield GI use a titanium firing pin with heavier spring to pass the California drop test. I promptly replaced it with standard parts and took out the ILS out. The firing pin is (ironically) ED BROWN, Brownells part #087-205-826.I'm not a gunsmith and am only curious as to what harm do the safety feature cause or what benefits are there to removing them?

J-cat
02-27-2010, 12:16 PM
A steel firing pin with a lighter firing pin spring improves ignition reliability with hard primer cups like CCI.

nn3453
02-27-2010, 2:12 PM
Massad Ayoob is an OT. An Original Troll.

Old4eyes
02-27-2010, 2:55 PM
If you are buying a NEW 1911, it will have passed the drop test required by the State in order to be put on the dreaded Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale. If you don't modify it then from the legal side of things, you've got a strong leg to stand on. But then again, once you get hauled into court, a lawyer can turn common sense into mush.

If you are getting a gun that's not on the list via a PPT, that's another problem.

Gun Control in this instance would mean don't drop the gun.

Sheepdog1968
02-27-2010, 3:26 PM
I see no reason to change it from the way it comes from the factory. If it comes w a titianium firing pin and a heavier spring, leave it be. If you take it out once a week and shoot 100 rounds through it, in about half a year you will have about 3000 rounds through it. If it goes bang every time then u know its reliable. If it is giving you problems send it back to the factory for repairs and let them fix it so its reliable and safe.

pheyos
02-27-2010, 4:25 PM
With much appreciation, thank you all for informing me.

The article has me wondering about not having certain safety features and getting sued. Massad writes in the same article: "I testified in one case where the prosecution alleged manslaughter on a theory that the gun had smooth handles, and therefore slippery ones, and that the gun had slipped in the officer's grasp and gone off, killing the decedent."

Anyone know how prevalent this is in California?

nn3453
02-27-2010, 8:11 PM
Ayoob has a history of sprinkling half baked legal opinions in everything he writes. He was the one who started the myth that a modified gun will be used against you by the prosecution. That is a myth like many others he has started. The prosecution can allege anything. The judge in most cases will throw preposterous things out. Just like the judge did in the case where a guy used a class 3 gun to defend himself. Ayoob conveniently forgets to mention things that don't fit his agenda.

9mmepiphany
02-27-2010, 9:01 PM
Massad Ayoob is an OT. An Original Troll.
i may not agree with everything that Mas says or writes. his delivery is even offensive to so people...i actually don't mind....but some of his personal choices are somewhat questionable

but he is the as much the father or Officer Survival Training as Jeff Cooper is the father of the Modern Technique of Combat Shooting. neither man invent his greatest contribution to shooting, but they both gathered the information/techniques and made them available/popular.

Ayoob's writings have saved the lives of numerous officers, by bring knowledge gained from shootings out of the dark