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Crank1000
02-22-2010, 10:51 AM
Sorry if this has been discussed before. It seems like it would have been, but I'm relatively new here, and I can't seem to find anything on it by searching.

So the question is whether it is better to CC, or Open Carry? As I see it, CC is obviously better 99% of the time. But are there situations when an Open Carry is advantageous? I could think that OC in obvious situations like hunting in national forests would be better since there is no real need to hide a weapon from a grizzly. But are there any urban scenarios where you would feel more comfortable OC? Would you contend that OC in cities might create more aggression or less aggression towards you from potential bad guys?

mossy
02-22-2010, 10:55 AM
CCW is best. besides most people in CA who OC do not have ammo in the guns. prety stupid if you ask me, all it takes is for one thug to pull a loaded weapon and the UOC'er would be out a gun.

TheCilician
02-22-2010, 11:04 AM
Some points would be:

OC: Thugs see you, and try to avoid you because they now fear what you can do. But, it is also a disadvantage because you are also carrying an $800 piece of hardware on your holster that is worth more than what your wallet is. True, it will intimidate criminals that are amateur's, and maybe even some experienced ones, but nothing beats CC...why?

CC: "Surprise mother F***er! " Basically that's what you're CC for. The criminal says "gimmie your money" and you reach around your pocket to pull out your Sig. If it's CC it's loaded and you have all the right to pull. But, basically it's the initial Shock that will disarm them.

Sun Tzu-"Give not thine enemies plans for withdrawal or attack. Show thine enemy your forced not for intimidation, for he has generals who search your ranks for a weakness. Hide your army, and intentions, and thy will strike with the surprise as a snake."

odysseus
02-22-2010, 11:24 AM
OC: Thugs see you, and try to avoid you because they now fear what you can do. But, it is also a disadvantage because you are also carrying an $800 piece of hardware on your holster that is worth more than what your wallet is. True, it will intimidate criminals that are amateur's, and maybe even some experienced ones, but nothing beats CC...why?

That is an assumption I would not subscribe to, that thugs would "avoid" you out of fear, especially said "amateurs". I can see scenarios where you could be openly challenged and even ganged up on, which is certainly not a good thing. They might fear the possibility of what you might be able to do, but there is a different psychology at play here with OC and what that can bring to you, knowing that also you can be put in certain legal liability by putting your hand on it and just drawing it if provoked.... and people LOVE to provoke. That's why CC is on this level also superior, IMHO.

IrishPirate
02-22-2010, 11:35 AM
CCW (with a permit) is best in urban areas. LOC is best in the woods. UOC is best done in large groups of law abiding people for the purpose of informing the public that gun owners are not all thugs or red necks, but people just like them. However, having said that, UOC also draws alot fo NEGATIVE attention to the gun community also. I think UOC should be a last resort for carry and i think if people could just wait a little longer to see if we get incorporation (knock on wood!!!!) then UOC will be a thing that people tell stories about...."you know kids, back when i was your age the only way you could carry a gun without a permit was to have it unloaded and in plain view!"....."No way, that's an urban legend!"......"let me tell you the story of the PRK......"

Crank1000
02-22-2010, 12:18 PM
Interesting responses. All very good points. I tend to subscribe to the idea that OC in a 'thug' scenario might provoke more often than deter. Maybe I'm wrong, But I think the idea of fear doesn't seem to portray itself in retreat among thugs or gang related. After all, isn't fear what put them in their current situation of aggression? Or is there something else at play there?

Question regarding UOC in cities: If I am UOC (with obviously a legal gun in my name), and have to deal with authorities for an unrelated reason, what kind of legal headaches will I likely I have to deal with when they see the gun? Btw, this is purely hypothetical as I would not likely UOC in urban environments.

butch952
02-22-2010, 12:25 PM
We have the right "for now anyway" to open carry in urban areas but I agree that UOC is totaly useless and counterproductive for everyone exept the gun banners.CCW is the best way to go if you can do it legaly.

paul0660
02-22-2010, 12:26 PM
Cops have the authority to do an "e" check, named after 12031(e), to determine a handgun is unloaded. And, they can do it as often as they like. For their own safety they can have you assume the position while doing so.

mcsoupman
02-22-2010, 12:29 PM
Crank, the headaches are numerous as noted by some public items in the forums you can find under the General discussions and 2nd A forums. If said hypo scenario happens, you better know your rights, your complete detailed whereabouts, and a good lawyer. Even the best problem free situation could lead to your detainment and confiscation of your weapon even if just temporary.

IrishPirate
02-22-2010, 12:31 PM
Interesting responses. All very good points. I tend to subscribe to the idea that OC in a 'thug' scenario might provoke more often than deter. Maybe I'm wrong, But I think the idea of fear doesn't seem to portray itself in retreat among thugs or gang related. After all, isn't fear what put them in their current situation of aggression? Or is there something else at play there?

Question regarding UOC in cities: If I am UOC (with obviously a legal gun in my name), and have to deal with authorities for an unrelated reason, what kind of legal headaches will I likely I have to deal with when they see the gun? Btw, this is purely hypothetical as I would not likely UOC in urban environments.

demeanor is a big part of not getting in trouble with thugs. if you look like a target, you'll be one. if you look like you're not afraid to kill someone who f**ks with you, you have a better chance of not getting messed with. don't be boisterous, but don't act like you're waiting for someone to come jack al your possessions and beat you down. UOC with a ready to roll demeanor will let them know you mean business and they might not mess with you. UOC with the deer in the headlights look means come and take my gun from me.....nothing is a guarantee, but it's best not to give them the idea that you'll be easy prey. predators never go after the hardest thing to kill, always the weak ones that make easy targets.

the cops can legally check to see if your gun is loaded, but they can't run the serial numbers unless they are in plain view before it's unholstered. they can't force you to produce ID if it's just a UOC related stop. however, be prepared for uneducated cops to give you much more of a headache. That is why it should be a last resort, and if possible, avoided until we get incorporation....possibly only weeks away!!!!

Crank1000
02-22-2010, 12:44 PM
As I suspected, it seems like UOC would not be worth it for any reason. I can't think of a situation where I would 'need' to OC in urban environments anyways.

So can somebody run down this becoming incorporated thing for me? Even if just a link to a site with info would be fine... This is news to me. I tried googling, but just got a bunch of business related stuff. Nothing firearm related.

aermotor
02-22-2010, 12:51 PM
We wouldn't have a problem if CA would issue CCWs, but I'd say about .0000001% of the population have one. So options are severely limited. I agree that UOC in some instances can be more destructive to our cause.

armedoffroader
02-22-2010, 2:51 PM
UOC says "Hey shoot me first!" The bad guys are carrying concealed and loaded, so showing off a nice pistol that is unloaded to me just begs to get stolen. Bravado and a confident look mean nothing to the thug that just picked up a snub .38 for $100...all he knows is his is loaded, yours is not and he would rather have yours and your wallet as well. An unloaded gun is useless. While I support the cause of all UOC'ers and agree it should be a right (as well as I believe CCWs should be more easily granted) no UOC for me.