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View Full Version : Carrying while at friend's house? work?


felixthecat1
02-18-2010, 6:05 AM
Could some of you experienced, well informed CG-ers please help educate me. 3 specific scenarios I have questions about?

Can I carry at friend's/relatives houses? (going to be having a party in Compton at the end of the month, and am concerned about undesirables from the surrounding area trying to start problems)

How about at work, if my employer doesn't mind, and is it mandatory that I have written authorization, or is verbal alone enough? ? (overnight shift at a hotel)

Also, I live in an apartment building. I understand that I am allowed to carry concealed or otherwise in my residence. Does my residence include the compound I live in ( taking out the trash, going to the hot tub at night, etc, etc) ?


Thanks in advance.

Librarian
02-18-2010, 6:41 AM
Could some of you experienced, well informed CG-ers please help educate me. 3 specific scenarios I have questions about?

(1) Can I carry at friend's/relatives houses? (going to be having a party in Compton at the end of the month, and am concerned about undesirables from the surrounding area trying to start problems)

(2) How about at work, if my employer doesn't mind, and is it mandatory that I have written authorization, or is verbal alone enough? ? (overnight shift at a hotel)

(3)Also, I live in an apartment building. I understand that I am allowed to carry concealed or otherwise in my residence. Does my residence include the compound I live in ( taking out the trash, going to the hot tub at night, etc, etc) ?


Thanks in advance.

(1) is up to your friend. Inside the house should be no issue; outside depends on how accessible to the public the area is.

(2) concealed carry is probably no-go unless you have CCW; open carry is still unsettled. My personal opinion is open carry with written permission should work, but I imagine in a hotel OC is not going to fly.

(3) No - you don't control those areas the same way as you control the inside of your apartment.

Sheepdog1968
02-18-2010, 6:47 AM
For point 1 you mention party and undesirables starting a problem. Wouldn't the best approach be to simply not go to this party or hold it somewhere safer?

word2smoth
02-18-2010, 9:55 AM
(2) concealed carry is probably no-go unless you have CCW; open carry is still unsettled. My personal opinion is open carry with written permission should work, but I imagine in a hotel OC is not going to fly.



A follow-up question. The company I work for is a family owned business (my father is president) and my "boss" knows I have gun in a lock box at my desk. He actually feels better about it due to an incident we had a few years ago.

I was assuming since we are a private company and since the management allows firearms that I am in the clear. Am I ok?

Librarian
02-18-2010, 9:08 PM
A follow-up question. The company I work for is a family owned business (my father is president) and my "boss" knows I have gun in a lock box at my desk. He actually feels better about it due to an incident we had a few years ago.

I was assuming since we are a private company and since the management allows firearms that I am in the clear. Am I ok?

Probably (though this drifts a bit away from CCW).

Access is OK with management approval. It's carry that's somewhat 'iffy'.

felixthecat1
02-19-2010, 5:52 AM
For point 1 you mention party and undesirables starting a problem. Wouldn't the best approach be to simply not go to this party or hold it somewhere safer?

It would, but my attendance is pretty important, and the location is ideal in all other aspects from what I'm told. I'm not hosting the event, a relative is though.

felixthecat1
02-19-2010, 5:55 AM
(2) concealed carry is probably no-go unless you have CCW; open carry is still unsettled. My personal opinion is open carry with written permission should work, but I imagine in a hotel OC is not going to fly.

(3) No - you don't control those areas the same way as you control the inside of your apartment.


Thanks for your reply, Librarian.

So, you believe concealed is a no go, even in my place of employment with written permission from my employer ? That's unfortunate.

As for those public areas of my apartment complex, I figured that would be the answer i would get.

Thanks again!

word2smoth
02-19-2010, 9:39 AM
Thanks for your reply, Librarian.

So, you believe concealed is a no go, even in my place of employment with written permission from my employer ? That's unfortunate.

As for those public areas of my apartment complex, I figured that would be the answer i would get.

Thanks again!

Librarian, I too thank you for the info.

BTW, do you know the law or regulation that states carrying concealed at work is illegal or not?

To be honest, many times when I'm the only one at work and I'm there late I do carry concealed on my person.

Librarian
02-19-2010, 4:19 PM
Librarian, I too thank you for the info.

BTW, do you know the law or regulation that states carrying concealed at work is illegal or not?

To be honest, many times when I'm the only one at work and I'm there late I do carry concealed on my person.

It's the combination of PC 12025, that says CCW without a license is illegal, and PC 12026 (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/1/2/s12026)(a). The trick appears to me to be that one can carry openly or concealed in a business that one owns, as distinct from 'the place where you work'. That, at least, is my interpretation of the language of 12026(a), and folks are free to disagree, because I certainly have no case law or other sound basis to be persuasive.

The Criminal Jury Instructions (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/jury/criminaljuryinstructions/) do not address CCW with that exception.

word2smoth
02-19-2010, 4:39 PM
It's the combination of PC 12025, that says CCW without a license is illegal, and PC 12026 (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/1/2/s12026)(a). The trick appears to me to be that one can carry openly or concealed in a business that one owns, as distinct from 'the place where you work'. That, at least, is my interpretation of the language of 12026(a), and folks are free to disagree, because I certainly have no case law or other sound basis to be persuasive.

The Criminal Jury Instructions (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/jury/criminaljuryinstructions/) do not address CCW with that exception.

Thank you sir.

paul0660
02-19-2010, 4:49 PM
(a) Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within
the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code,
who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen'
s or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on
private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal
resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person.
(b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or
carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within
the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to
purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed,
a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person within the citizen's or legal resident's place of
residence, place of business, or on private property owned or
lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident.


Owned OR possessed.......you don't have to be the property owner to carry.

There is probably case law that clarifies this, and probably conservatively and illogically.

Brianguy
02-19-2010, 4:55 PM
Whatever you do, make sure you get it on paper so no one changes their story later ;)

word2smoth
02-19-2010, 5:21 PM
Whatever you do, make sure you get it on paper so no one changes their story later ;)

Good advice but fortunately in my case my boss is my dad and I am the heir apparent so to speak. I guess he can still fire me though. :)

Cire 5th
02-19-2010, 10:42 PM
OP: Can I carry at friend's/relatives houses? (going to be having a party in Compton at the end of the month, and am concerned about undesirables from the surrounding area trying to start problems)

A: LOL you got to be kidding me right? CCW or not. No. You trying to be a Cowboy? Let things unfold naturally without any emotion of ending things at the reach of your hip.

Here is what you do if something goes down, get the **** out of there and hopefully you don't get shot. You holding because you expect something to happen is not a good thing to have a reason to conceal legally or not. Hopefully someone else is CCW and not you. Because if you take into consideration the environment and the type of people it could be bad.

Personally I wouldn't go to a party like that. If I do go to one and I didn't know what the future holds the latter holds.

word2smoth
02-19-2010, 11:17 PM
Personally I wouldn't go to a party like that. If I do go to one and I didn't know what the future holds the latter holds.

The OP stated it's an important event and his relative is hosting so his attendance is required.

I don't think he's being a cowboy, just asking for advice. I think we would all agree to do whatever it takes to not escalate a situation.

felixthecat1
02-19-2010, 11:30 PM
The OP stated it's an important event and his relative is hosting so his attendance is required.

I don't think he's being a cowboy, just asking for advice. I think we would all agree to do whatever it takes to not escalate a situation.

Correct. I'm not saying I want to be armed. I'm saying that I live in LA, I'm familiar with Compton, and have been through there for several things at several times of my life, and I think that this party in particular, may draw people from the surrouding apartment buildings/streets with negative intent in mind.

Thanks for your advice so far.

Cire 5th
02-19-2010, 11:48 PM
Correct. I'm not saying I want to be armed. I'm saying that I live in LA, I'm familiar with Compton, and have been through there for several things at several times of my life, and I think that this party in particular, may draw people from the surrouding apartment buildings/streets with negative intent in mind.

Thanks for your advice so far.

I still say No. Attend if you want but if **** hits the fan just get out rather than have a shoot out I think is best.

See IMO, I woul feel safer, carrying, being at the place when I know the day should function normally like any other day - But knowing you have a party and something bad could potentially happen and you want to go in there an be a mediator so nothing bad will happen OR so you can defense when something bad will happen is just not carrying for the right reason to me.

I rather CCW or open carry and go to a social public place knowing nothing is going to happen - when soemthing bad does happen you act because its might be saving lives an is your obligation to.

But like other people and I were saying just don't go, have party at another place, don't carry at all (carry you have now an obligation to could cost yours and your families lives as marked) - because you already know something will go down or has a chance of going down.

Anyway, last post on this from me.

Billy Jack
02-26-2010, 9:07 AM
Could some of you experienced, well informed CG-ers please help educate me. 3 specific scenarios I have questions about?

Can I carry at friend's/relatives houses? (going to be having a party in Compton at the end of the month, and am concerned about undesirables from the surrounding area trying to start problems)

How about at work, if my employer doesn't mind, and is it mandatory that I have written authorization, or is verbal alone enough? ? (overnight shift at a hotel)

Also, I live in an apartment building. I understand that I am allowed to carry concealed or otherwise in my residence. Does my residence include the compound I live in ( taking out the trash, going to the hot tub at night, etc, etc) ?


Thanks in advance.

Personal choices where you need to be armed at a 'party' are not good lifestyle choices. Compton is LASO or LASD if you wish. My old department. If something were to 'go down' so would you in all likelihood. Why did the party giver not hire private security? Why did the party giver not inform the sub-station of the party? You background, training with firearms and a litany of issues would come into question.

Suggest your friend rent a private hall where they can provide armed, private security. I went to a few parties as you are describing in ELA and we took a whole lot of folks to jail. On the plus side, the Crown Victorias are much roomier in the back seat than the Plymouth Fury III we had at the time.

Always trust the man who wore the six pointed star.

Billy Jack


www.californiaconcealedcarry.com

Glock22Fan
02-26-2010, 10:27 AM
There's a grey area (in some people's minds) concerning whether an employee can carry a concealed firearm with business owners' permission. Machtinger's book firmly says "No," it must be carried openly (and I can see why in a hotel you would not want to). My personal belief is that I would not advise anybody to do it as I am not convinced it is legal and there is some evidence that it is not.

He then says what qualifies you as an "owner." If you are the heir apparent, maybe you could get your father to give you a few shares now? Not sure how many you would need to be completely safe, but don't forget my agent's fee for suggesting it :).

If you are going armed to a party, I suggest (and you have probably already thought of this) that you lay off the alcohol. That'd spoil the party for me, but each to his own. You would be acting as unpaid security. That'd put another damper on my enjoyment if it were me.

word2smoth
02-26-2010, 12:36 PM
[QUOTE=Glock22Fan;3870767]There's a grey area (in some people's minds) concerning whether an employee can carry a concealed firearm with business owners' permission. Machtinger's book firmly says "No," it must be carried openly (and I can see why in a hotel you would not want to). My personal belief is that I would not advise anybody to do it as I am not convinced it is legal and there is some evidence that it is not.

He then says what qualifies you as an "owner." If you are the heir apparent, maybe you could get your father to give you a few shares now? Not sure how many you would need to be completely safe, but don't forget my agent's fee for suggesting it :). QUOTE]

Yeah, it's a gray area. I have a childhood friend who is an LE for a neighboring city. The street in front of our office is the city line and he shouldn't but almost every night he parks his cruiser out in front at least once during his shift. He was sure it was fine for me to keep a weapon in a lock box, pretty sure it was ok for me to open carry but unsure about concealed carry.

Without going into too much detail but one of the reasons I carry a weapon at work is my office was burglarized a few years ago and I happen to run into the one of the burglars! I was the first one at work that day and while I was punching in the code to disarm the alarm (yes, they had bypassed our alarm system) a guy jumps out of the copy room and we both kind of look at each in shock and he bolts for the front. Later on video we were able to determination it was a crew of 3 guys. But at that time the only thing I had handy was a pipe wrench. I always look back and think, what if that guy was armed?

Anyway, agent's fee, nice man. :)
I believe the way our corporation is set-up is that there is only one shareholder and it's my dad. When he retires, I'll take his share. :D

felixthecat1
02-27-2010, 7:44 AM
Do not carry in or near a hot tub, concealed or openly. The water and steam will rust your gun.

What about the the rain, or the possibly upcoming California Tsunami? I suppose I could Ziplock everything, eh?