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View Full Version : Some questions on transporting a "border-line assault weapon"


SVPRApps
02-14-2010, 10:45 PM
Okay, the most scariest gun I have is a WASR-10 with a 10/30 mag and a maglock on it.

Well, my FFL told me that I cannot transport the WASR with the magazine removed or else it becomes an assault weapon. He says if I ever have to reload it, I have to remove the dust cover, recoil spring, etc, and top load it. and if I was ever caught with my WASR with a magazine unattached it automatically becomes an assault weapon and could be confiscated by police when they pull me over and ask to inspect my weapons.

FUD? Or what? I hate it when somebody just tells me this and that

but i also been told i cannot have a magazine attached to my weapon because it will be viewed as "loaded"

wtf im very confused

***we are assuming i have no ammo in the magazine.....loaded = magazine, or bullets in the chamber or magazine?

SJgunguy24
02-14-2010, 10:49 PM
FUD, ask him how many cars he's crashed. I have a good idea of where his head is.

wildhawker
02-14-2010, 11:00 PM
See http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf.

Is your rifle an AW banned by name? No. Proceed.
Is your rifle an AW by configuration? No. Proceed. (Assuming no SBR, 30"+oal, etc.).
Does your rifle have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine? It has a maglock, so the answer is no.
Are you using a magazine with a capacity for greater than 10 rounds? No.

Your rifle is legal.

wash
02-14-2010, 11:04 PM
Make sure your magazine can't be detached without a tool or hold more than 10 rounds and everything is good. You can go through the flow chart to be sure.

Don't transport it loaded, I'm pretty sure that's a no-no.

SVPRApps
02-14-2010, 11:05 PM
Make sure your magazine can't be detached without a tool or hold more than 10 rounds and everything is good. You can go through the flow chart to be sure.

Don't transport it loaded, I'm pretty sure that's a no-no.

Never of course. I meant if the magazine is attached, does that count as loaded? or should i store magazine/clip/ammo separate from the gun?

Intimid8tor
02-14-2010, 11:09 PM
Never of course. I meant if the magazine is attached, does that count as loaded? or should i store magazine/clip/ammo separate from the gun?

I believe you can keep an empty mag in while traveling. The ammo should not be in the magazine.

Thrasher416
02-14-2010, 11:10 PM
Don't transport it loaded, I'm pretty sure that's a no-no.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=103660
Good thread by Librarian on what constitutes loaded and unloaded in California law.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Transportation_Questions

Calguns FAQ on transporting firearms in California.

SJgunguy24
02-14-2010, 11:11 PM
Never of course. I meant if the magazine is attached, does that count as loaded? or should i store magazine/clip/ammo separate from the gun?

No, an empty mag locked in doesn't mean the gun is loaded. The gun is only loaded if it's loaded. You can even have ammo in the same bag/ case, hell you can have loaded mags in the case with the gun.

That guy who told you that traveling with an empty mag well is illegal is an fricking idiot and needs to get crystal clear on the laws himself before giving advice.

BKinzey
02-14-2010, 11:13 PM
Never of course. I meant if the magazine is attached, does that count as loaded? or should i store magazine/clip/ammo separate from the gun?


Do you have rounds in the attached magazine? If it's empty it's empty.

thedrickel
02-14-2010, 11:42 PM
You have a BULLET BUTTON type of mag lock, correct?

tombinghamthegreat
02-14-2010, 11:50 PM
***we are assuming i have no ammo in the magazine.....loaded = magazine, or bullets in the chamber or magazine?
Who knew that there is a link to provide you with all the information so that you do not have to listen to gun dealers give out bad advise since they are not qualified to give out legal advise (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#How_do_I_legally_transport_a_handgun.3F)

The ammo should not be in the magazine.

FUD. You can have loaded mags, just not inserted in the gun. PC12031

ke6guj
02-15-2010, 1:47 AM
I love you.
DedEye's back.

Probably better to channel Barney than HK when linking to the FAQ so you don't get banned again:D

Cokebottle
02-15-2010, 2:03 AM
That guy who told you that traveling with an empty mag well is illegal is an fricking idiot and needs to get crystal clear on the laws himself before giving advice.
Not illegal, but a 10rd mag locked in via the BB makes is a lot easier to avoid any drama in the event of an inspection...

"That looks like an assault weapon"
"It's a fixed magazine sir, a top-loader"

Reinforcing this is that without a tool, he won't be able to drop the mag to perform his e-check. If he asks you to do anything, don't drop the mag... just pull the rear takedown pin and open it like a toploader.

Much less drama until we get a few more LEAs with training memos like Sacramento and Orange County.

Edit: I picked up the YHM takedown pins with the larger knobs to more easily facilitate this.

aplinker
02-15-2010, 6:58 AM
OP: you have a knack for asking the tired old questions that are the "top 10" on the Calguns wiki, the Calguns FAQ thread, etc. You need to do your homework and start reading.

For example, here are some gems:
Do I have to register my guns / have paperwork for it? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=265837)

How to be totally in the clear with an AK/AR type rifle? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=262310)

Legal to have disassembled 30 rd mags in your possession? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=264163)

And those are just from the past 2 weeks.

Take some time, read through the Calguns wiki, and then try to search for answers before starting threads.

duscati
02-15-2010, 8:57 AM
Amen.

383green
02-15-2010, 9:24 AM
If you wish to store and/or transport your fixed-magazine rifles with the empty magazines inserted, then a chamber safety flag is a nice addition to make it obvious at a casual glance that they're unloaded. I store and transport mine with the magazines in place (not because it's necessary; that's just the way I prefer to do it), and I keep this kind of chamber safety flag in each one:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=535054

http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Medium/535054.jpg

I've even left the magazines in place at range breaks and inserted the chamber safety flag, and I haven't had a range officer complain so far. The tip of the model of safety flag that I linked to above makes a handy tool for pressing the bullet button in my ARs, but I don't know whether it would work as well on AK-style rifles because I don't have one to try it on. There are many other styles of chamber safety flags, including both generic ones and ones which are made for specific models of rifles.

pullnshoot25
02-15-2010, 9:38 AM
Okay, the most scariest gun I have is a WASR-10 with a 10/30 mag and a maglock on it.

Well, my FFL told me that I cannot transport the WASR with the magazine removed or else it becomes an assault weapon. He says if I ever have to reload it, I have to remove the dust cover, recoil spring, etc, and top load it. and if I was ever caught with my WASR with a magazine unattached it automatically becomes an assault weapon and could be confiscated by police when they pull me over and ask to inspect my weapons.

FUD? Or what? I hate it when somebody just tells me this and that

but i also been told i cannot have a magazine attached to my weapon because it will be viewed as "loaded"

wtf im very confused

***we are assuming i have no ammo in the magazine.....loaded = magazine, or bullets in the chamber or magazine?

Who is the FFL? Sounds like he needs a Calguns spanking.

383green
02-15-2010, 9:40 AM
Who is the FFL? Sounds like he needs a Calguns spanking.

Let's give him a Calguns hug. Well, unless he's into that spanking stuff. Shouldn't make assumptions about that sort of thing. :whistling:

dirtyJ
02-15-2010, 12:21 PM
Come on now, ct90, just drop your old FFL and come up to us here in Woodland. We're tons friendlier and we know the ins and outs of staying legal.

lorax3
02-15-2010, 12:25 PM
You think transporting a WASR is scary? Psh

Try explaining why the Draco AK pistol isn't registered to you!

:D

kf6tac
02-15-2010, 1:44 PM
Seems like folks have just about covered it, so I'll just add: saying you have a "border-line assault weapon" is like saying you're "a little bit pregnant." You either are or you aren't, and your gun is either an assault weapon or it's not.

Mstrty
02-15-2010, 2:12 PM
"border-line assault weapon" Ha!! Is that like a "hate crime". Either it is an assault weapon or it isnt. Its a "crime" or it isnt.

ocspeedracer
02-15-2010, 2:18 PM
This is seriously frightening. What I'm talking about is the amount of useless knowledge one must posses to, in this case, transport a legally owned firearm.

I guess i was confused, for a minute there i though the law was around to protect good people and punnish criminals.

wildhawker
02-15-2010, 2:26 PM
It's not useless if it keeps you out of jail.

SJgunguy24
02-15-2010, 2:34 PM
It's not useless if it keeps you out of jail.

WORD! Knowledge is power.

wash
02-15-2010, 3:40 PM
There was a court case about what is loaded and what isn't.

The good news is that it means pretty much what you think it should. Ammo in a magazine in a gun or in the chamber of a gun is loaded. A shotgun with an empty tube magazine and chamber isn't loaded even if it has a full ammo carrier or speed feed type stock attached.

Look at an SKS, you don't have to remove the fixed magazine to unload it, just make sure there isn't any ammo in the magazine or chamber.

I like to keep an empty magazine fixed in my bullet button fixed magazine rifles when I'm transporting them. It's pretty hard to argue a gun has a detachable magazine when you can't remove the installed magazine without a tool.

Loaded vs. unloaded is pretty obvious but an uninformed police officer might make a mistake about "assault weapon" status so make that obvious for them.

bplvr
02-21-2010, 7:51 PM
To transport without worry : place a folded Flowchart,a folded Sac.PD letter and a copy of Allisson's letter in your OLL Legal Guide book and put that in your hardcase. Place a chamber flag and an empty 10 round mag in your SUR and and place the SUR in the hardcase .Close and lock the hardcase and then put the hardcase in a locked trunk {if available}. Obey all traffic laws.

Crazed_SS
02-21-2010, 8:40 PM
Seems like folks have just about covered it, so I'll just add: saying you have a "border-line assault weapon" is like saying you're "a little bit pregnant." You either are or you aren't, and your gun is either an assault weapon or it's not.

Sadly that isnt the reality. If it was, BWOs situation would have taken all those months and all those 10s of thousands of dollars.. :(

aplinker
02-21-2010, 8:53 PM
Sadly that isnt the reality. If it was, BWOs situation would have taken all those months and all those 10s of thousands of dollars.. :(

The current environment is vastly different than it was 4 years ago.

LE and DAs are aware of OLLs. We also have the CGF who has been instrumental in making the time to release, and often return of firearms, very rapid.