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shooterwcw
02-14-2010, 6:59 PM
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RomanDad
02-14-2010, 7:08 PM
Bill Hunt vs. Craig Hunter on CCWs

SHALL ISSUE vs. MIGHT ISSUE

Bill Hunt’s policy position on CCWs is the functional equivalent of the “CCW Shall Issue” laws passed by most of our states. In other words, by itself, a responsible citizen’s desire to be armed for personal protection meets the CA legal requirement for “good cause”. This is a determination that is at the discretion of each county sheriff.

A new Bill Hunt campaign flier first distributed on January 30 states:

“Orange County is going CCW SHALL ISSUE…..If you will help: Vote, Volunteer, Contribute”

On Bill Hunt’s website ( http://www.billhuntforsheriff.com/) is the following statement:

“As your Sheriff, I will issue CCW's to any applicant who is a law abiding resident of the county, meets state mandated requirements and is not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm. To me, personal protection is good cause.”

On Craig Hunter’s website (http://www.hunterforsheriff.com/issues) is the following statement:

Concealed Carry
"I fully support the Second Amendment. When it is applied to Conceal Carry (CCW) permits, the courts have given local Sheriffs wide latitude in determining who should and shouldn’t receive a CCW permit. I disagree with our current Sheriff who has adopted an extremely restrictive policy on issuing CCW permits. Instead, I believe law-abiding residents have a right to defend themselves. As Sheriff, I will enact policies which put law abiding citizens first, rather than allowing criminals to have an advantage."

A more detailed formal statement on Craig Hunter’s intentions toward a CCW policy was published by Ordinary California Citizens Concerned With Safety. (http://www.occcws.com/?p=808)

The complete statement is below. But the for me the key part is, “when I am Sheriff of Orange County, reasonable expressions of good cause will be sufficient.”

Well, “reasonable expressions of good cause” is a far cry from, a responsible citizen’s desire to be armed for personal protection, by itself, meeting a sheriff’s requirement for “good cause”.

Therefore, I view Bill Hunt’s CCW position as being far more pro CCW.

Bill Hunt is SHALL ISSUE and Craig Hunter is MIGHT ISSUE.

Chris Wayland

November 21, 2009 by OCCCWS Editor

OCCCWS has obtained a formal statement by Deputy Chief Craig Hunter, Candidate for OC Sheriff in the 2010 elections, regarding his intentions toward a CCW policy in Orange County, should he be elected.

Current California law requires that good cause be established by those desiring a CCW. Courts have ruled that Sheriffs in California have almost unfettered latitude in determining what good cause is. Our current Sheriff has adopted a restrictive interpretation of good cause. I will not.

Everyone’s circumstances are different. Some travel through areas with little cell coverage and extended law enforcement response time. Many exercise at night away from home in locations which make them vulnerable. Some transport valuable property which makes them targets for criminals. The reality is that individuals have different reasons for desiring a CCW for purposes of self-defense, and when I am Sheriff of Orange County, reasonable expressions of good cause will be sufficient.

Police Chiefs and Sheriffs from throughout the United States agree that their initial reluctance in issuing CCW permits was unnecessary, and they have been pleasantly surprised by the absence of problems. Anyone who believes a self-protection firearm is not a deterrent to crime is simply being unrealistic.

I believe that everyone has the right to defend themselves if assaulted, and as your Sheriff I will not enact policies which put criminals at an advantage over the law abiding residents of Orange County.

Why are you running against Craig Hunter? SANDRA HUTCHENS IS THE SHERIFF.

It makes it sound like the goal of the Hunt Campaign is to come in second.

pitchbaby
02-14-2010, 7:12 PM
Hunt is direct, Hunter seems to be trying to answer without really answering. I'd go Hunt just cause he seems far more direct, saying what he means and meaning what he say's.

jont92619
02-14-2010, 7:57 PM
My issue with Hunter is that his policy is still very subjective and requires one to yet again participate in a creative writing assignment. Rather than him just accepting Personal Protection as good cause, you need to come up with some wacky statement. "I run near the hills and their are mountain lions, Bad cell phone coverage, I haul diamonds for a living, etc."

My point being it is no firmer a stance than we currently have with Hutchens. He can still deny you a ccw because he doesen't like your particular situation / creative writing assignment... His supporters are asking us to believe the wishy wasy statement and that he will issue in the spirit of personal protection is ok for good cause while allowing him wiggle room to back out of it. No thanks, I'll vote for the guy that is clear and blunt on the issue. Personal Protection is acceptable for good cause and that guy is Bill Hunt.

U2BassAce
02-15-2010, 1:30 AM
Why are you running against Craig Hunter? SANDRA HUTCHENS IS THE SHERIFF.

It makes it sound like the goal of the Hunt Campaign is to come in second.

+1

Second is first loser if Hutchens is the winner. Does us no good. Can we concentrate on her between now and June.....FIRST hurdle is keeping Hutchens under 50%+1 vote.

shooterwcw
02-15-2010, 6:37 AM
Since someone asked, I had a CCW continuously from 1977 to 2009, 32 years. I have lived in Orange County for 41 years. My public profile on this site is reprinted below.

The June 8 election will result in a run-off if no candidate gets more than 50% of the votes. So having both Hunt and Hunter in the race, in my view, makes it less likely that Hutchens will "win" in June, not more likely.

About shooterwcw
Biography
Retired: rocket scientist, engineer, manager, pilot, SWAT instructor.
Location
Orange County
Interests
Shooting, Range Master, Computer flight sims.
Occupation
Retired

OC4ME
02-15-2010, 7:09 AM
...creative writing suggestion: I move legal pot and want to defend against the Mexican cartels. you know...MS13 and all those underprivileged youths we have walking around here.

glbtrottr
02-15-2010, 9:19 AM
Running a county as effectively "shall issue" is radically against the California state DOJ's views under specific threat of litigation. Ask around those Sheriffs in California who have written policy under their watch.

Had Mr. Hunt been privy of a few conversations with previous Sheriffs in OC and others alike, he would know this. While Hunt's views are comfortably pro-2A, which we applaud, his implementation or intent would not lead to a positive outcome.

Hunter knows this.

Hunter is ideologically and functionally Shall Issue, sans convicted felons and the mentally unstable.

Ask him.

That said, his answer is functionally the best we can get from any Sheriff in any county for the time being.

Hutchens is the target, not Hunter. Focus your efforts on the wicked witch of LASD, not on Hunter.

Doheny
02-15-2010, 9:38 AM
There are plenty of sheriffs who, while may not have declared they are "shall issue" issue permits as if they are; they accept "Personal Protection" as Good Cause and deny few permits. I haven't heard of any of them being threatened with litigation by DOJ. That sounds like CALCCW FUD to me.

I'm not sure how someone endorses Hunt without seeming Anti Hunter...that doesn't make sense.

Billy Jack
02-15-2010, 9:58 AM
Running a county as effectively "shall issue" is radically against the California state DOJ's views under specific threat of litigation. Ask around those Sheriffs in California who have written policy under their watch.

Had Mr. Hunt been privy of a few conversations with previous Sheriffs in OC and others alike, he would know this. While Hunt's views are comfortably pro-2A, which we applaud, his implementation or intent would not lead to a positive outcome.

Hunter knows this.

Hunter is ideologically and functionally Shall Issue, sans convicted felons and the mentally unstable.

Ask him.

That said, his answer is functionally the best we can get from any Sheriff in any county for the time being.

Hutchens is the target, not Hunter. Focus your efforts on the wicked witch of LASD, not on Hunter.

You are absolutely correct. 'No Issue' and 'Dual Issue' Chiefs and Sheriffs will be all over any department that makes a public declaration against the California Penal Code. Remember Isleton? San Bernardino, Kern and Fresno county are effectively Shall Issue. These department heads are not stupid enough to make that a memorialized public policy until it is state law.

The Brady people would pressure the Attorney General to pursue the offending department if they failed to do it on their own. Think it through people, think it through.

Billy Jack

Doheny
02-15-2010, 10:19 AM
Just received this via email:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Bill Brough, 949-606-2687
February 15, 2010

LAGUNA HILLS, CA – Assemblyman and former Orange County Supervisor Chris Norby has endorsed Bill Hunt to be the next Orange County Sheriff.

“In 2006, Bill Hunt had the courage to take a stand when few others would,” said Norby. “He is the only current candidate to run for the office and actually gotten votes. It is clear based on the current sheriff’s position on the 2nd amendment and fiscal responsibility that we need new leadership in the office of the sheriff,”

Norby represents the 72nd assembly district encompassing Anaheim, Brea, Fullerton, La Habra, Orange, Placentia, Yorba Linda. Previously, Assemblyman Norby served 7 years on the Orange County Board of Supervisors until his election to the state assembly.

For more information about Bill Hunt, please visit www.BillHuntforSheriff.com (http://www.billhuntforsheriff.com/).

cyberhh
02-15-2010, 10:31 AM
Since someone asked, I had a CCW continuously from 1977 to 2009, 32 years. I have lived in Orange County for 41 years. My public profile on this site is reprinted below.

The June 8 election will result in a run-off if no candidate gets more than 50% of the votes. So having both Hunt and Hunter in the race, in my view, makes it less likely that Hutchens will "win" in June, not more likely.

About shooterwcw
Biography
Retired: rocket scientist, engineer, manager, pilot, SWAT instructor.
Location
Orange County
Interests
Shooting, Range Master, Computer flight sims.
Occupation
Retired

It was great meeting you at Rohauges (sp?) on Saturday.

The hard part is that the proof is ultimately delivered when it is too late. It is easy to say one thing and deliver another and politicians have been famous for this.

Jamsie567
02-15-2010, 10:41 AM
It was great meeting you at Rohauges (sp?) on Saturday.

The hard part is that the proof is ultimately delivered when it is too late. It is easy to say one thing and deliver another and politicians have been famous for this.

Point taken but how many politicians sacrifice their own career and call their boss corrupt? If that is not enough to show something nothing ever will. I say go with your gut and that is Bill Hunt! Shall issue is the way to go and plainly obvious who the Hunter backers are here. Don't be diswayed their in it for themselves and their CCW not you. Bill Hunt for Sheriff!!

steadyrock
02-15-2010, 11:14 AM
Point taken but how many politicians sacrifice their own career and call their boss corrupt? If that is not enough to show something nothing ever will. I say go with your gut and that is Bill Hunt! Shall issue is the way to go and plainly obvious who the Hunter backers are here. Don't be diswayed their in it for themselves and their CCW not you. Bill Hunt for Sheriff!!

Equally obvious who the Bill Hunt backers are. Nearly all of them fit your profile: Joined in the last few months, very few posts, and almost all are strictly in pro-Hunt threads, completely ignoring the remainder of the site (In your case, it is a full 79% of your posts).

Pumping Calguns full of shills did not do Chelene Nightingale any good, nor is it helping Bill Hunt. In fact, it is one of the things most rapidly causing me to sour on his campaign.

RomanDad
02-15-2010, 4:23 PM
Point taken but how many politicians sacrifice their own career and call their boss corrupt? If that is not enough to show something nothing ever will. I say go with your gut and that is Bill Hunt! Shall issue is the way to go and plainly obvious who the Hunter backers are here. Don't be diswayed their in it for themselves and their CCW not you. Bill Hunt for Sheriff!!

Um... Im one of the "obvious Hunter backers".... Can you please explain to me how Im "In it for my own CCW"?

I ALREADY HAVE MY CCW.... ISSUED BY SANDRA HUTCHENS. I could 'go along to get along' and keep my mouth shut if I was just "In it for my own CCW".

Im supporting HUNTER because I want OTHERS TO GET THEM AS WELL. And I believe he is the PRO CCW CANDIDATE who has the best chance of winning.



And if Im not mistaken, every other "Hunter Backer" in this thread ALSO has a CCW issued by Hutchens.... So accusing ANY OF US, of just being in it for ourselves is asinine.

U2BassAce
02-15-2010, 4:34 PM
Um... Im one of the "obvious Hunter backers".... Can you please explain to me how Im "In it for my own CCW"?

I ALREADY HAVE MY CCW.... ISSUED BY SANDRA HUTCHENS. I could 'go along to get along' and keep my mouth shut if I was just "In it for my own CCW".

Im supporting HUNTER because I want OTHERS TO GET THEM AS WELL. And I believe he is the PRO CCW CANDIDATE who has the best chance of winning.



And if Im not mistaken, every other "Hunter Backer" in this thread ALSO has a CCW issued by Hutchens.... So accusing ANY OF US, of just being in it for ourselves is asinine.

Thank you for bringing that up. I sometimes wonder why I even try to care.

dantodd
02-15-2010, 4:39 PM
Running a county as effectively "shall issue" is radically against the California state DOJ's views under specific threat of litigation.

This is blatantly untrue. The sheriff is required to exercise his or her discretion and it requires the applicant to show good cause. There is nothing wrong at all with the sheriff stating that self-defense is adequate good cause. He may not have a blanket approval or denial policy, each application must be acted upon independently. The sheriff most definitely can be "effectively shall-issue" he simply can't be "actually" shall-issue.

OCResident
02-18-2010, 1:53 AM
He may not have a blanket approval or denial policy, each application must be acted upon independently. The sheriff most definitely can be "effectively shall-issue" he simply can't be "actually" shall-issue.

I think you just reiterated the point that you were arguing against. As far as the DOJ is concerned, issuing for flat out unspecific "personal defense" is effectively the same as shall issue - and on this issue, an urban county will be treated in an entirely different light than rural counties.

I'm no TBJ fanboy, but he knows what he's talking about here and glbtrotter's post was actually profound if you've ever had a conversation on the issue with an insider. This is not just conjecture - this has been tested.

...but there's a word missing that I think is causing some confusion with people:

Running a[n "urban"] county as effectively "shall issue" is radically against the California state DOJ's views under specific threat of litigation.


Oh - and BTW - who is going to be the AG while Hunt/er is Sheriff? There are a couple candidates who I guarantee wouldn't stand for shall issue in OC!

But back to the original thread topic...I'll take Hunter over Hunt mainly for reasons outside of 2A, but I'm sure glad Hunt is running - it virtually guarantees a runoff election in which Hutchens is even more likely to lose and with either candidate we're a winner on the 2A issue. Why is there so much Hunt/Hunter bashing going on again?? Seems like we would be better served by pounding on Hutchens as clearly she must not be elected.

nicki
02-18-2010, 3:32 AM
Hunt and Hunter should hit Hutchens from all sides. After the june election gun rights activist can line up behind either Hunt or Hunter for the November election.

Of course there is the possiblity that we will have a runoff between Hunt and Hunter and that Hutchens will be a lame duck sheriff.

Hunt and Hunter have differences on other issues.

I suggest for those of you in orange county to go and met the candidates, find which one you like best, then donate time and money to help them get elected.

If you stand on the sides and do nothing, you deserve what you get.
Even a modest effort, say a 20 dollar donation and 4 hours to do some volunteer work could help your candidate get another 20 votes that might otherwise go to Hutchens.

Hutchens will get a lot of her votes from uninformed voters. That is something that can be reduced, but it will require a lot of effort.

Jamsie567
02-18-2010, 8:13 AM
Um... Im one of the "obvious Hunter backers".... Can you please explain to me how Im "In it for my own CCW"?

I ALREADY HAVE MY CCW.... ISSUED BY SANDRA HUTCHENS. I could 'go along to get along' and keep my mouth shut if I was just "In it for my own CCW".

Im supporting HUNTER because I want OTHERS TO GET THEM AS WELL. And I believe he is the PRO CCW CANDIDATE who has the best chance of winning.



And if Im not mistaken, every other "Hunter Backer" in this thread ALSO has a CCW issued by Hutchens.... So accusing ANY OF US, of just being in it for ourselves is asinine.

Do you personally know Craig Hunter?

Hunter's policy is good cause he picks and chooses who gets the right to keep and bare arms. That is complete B.S. and you know it.

dantodd
02-18-2010, 8:57 AM
I think you just reiterated the point that you were arguing against. As far as the DOJ is concerned, issuing for flat out unspecific "personal defense" is effectively the same as shall issue - and on this issue, an urban county will be treated in an entirely different light than rural counties.

Nope, you are incorrect. Unless you can point out some case law I don't buy it. The sheriff is only required to exercise discretion, how they do so is entirely up to them. A sheriff can very easily say that "personal defense" is entirely acceptable good cause. I suspect that a sheriff who accepted "to rob liquor stores" as good cause might have some trouble down the road. See, that would be sheriff's discretion, if someone's good cause is "personal defense" I'll accept it, if they put down "to rob liquor stores" I won't.

Glock22Fan
02-18-2010, 9:05 AM
The only real difference I see between Hunt's CCW statements and Hunter's is that Hunter is being more cautious for political reasons. Hunter will attract fewer leftie critics by not outright saying "I will go around car parks putting them under screenwipers". There is nothing in Hunter's statements that would stop him from issuing just as many CCW's as Hunt.

I don't have a dog in this race, but I would be judging the relative merits of these guys on other issues. They are close enough on CCW's for me to be happy with either on that score.

The important thing is beating Hutchens.

Foghlai
02-18-2010, 9:25 AM
Ideally it will be a run-off between hunt and hunter. If I had to pick from what I have heard I would go with Hunt. I don't completely buy the argument that the AG will come down on a department that determines good cause to be self-defense.

BJ or others, please explain how self-defense = good cause goes against the CPC. Thanks

IGOTDIRT4U
02-18-2010, 9:36 AM
Point taken but how many politicians sacrifice their own career and call their boss corrupt? If that is not enough to show something nothing ever will. I say go with your gut and that is Bill Hunt! Shall issue is the way to go and plainly obvious who the Hunter backers are here. Don't be diswayed their in it for themselves and their CCW not you. Bill Hunt for Sheriff!!

Huh?!? How so? How are they "in it for themselves and their CCW not you."? It's plainly obvious who the Hunt backers are, too! (even if they provide misguided statements about the unproven intentions of the potential Hunter backers)

IGOTDIRT4U
02-18-2010, 9:41 AM
Do you personally know Craig Hunter?

Hunter's policy is good cause he picks and chooses who gets the right to keep and bare arms. That is complete B.S. and you know it.

As he has not been elected into office, from what real world experience in dealing with Hunter, yourself, directly, do you derive this statement from? Or is this just hyperbole?

RomanDad
02-18-2010, 9:55 AM
Ideally it will be a run-off between hunt and hunter. If I had to pick from what I have heard I would go with Hunt. I don't completely buy the argument that the AG will come down on a department that determines good cause to be self-defense.

BJ or others, please explain how self-defense = good cause goes against the CPC. Thanks

The penal code has nothing to do with it..... Its Politics... Plain and simple.... For all the discretion sheriff's have on the subject, the DOJ has even MORE, and like ALL CALIFORNIA LAWS, the buck ULTIMATELY Stops with THEM. They can (and have in the past) interfere with the policy if they decide to.

Look at how fast the DOJ CHANGED THEIR OWN RULES regarding revocation at Sheriff Hutchen's request, because they were both on the same (anti-ccw) side... Despite the fact the Penal Code SEEMS to prohibit it, The DOJ, at Hutchen's request, issued an opinion that Sheriff's CAN revoke WITHOUT CAUSE, AND went so far as to change their software to add the Orwellian term "expired early" to their database.

As far as Hunter's policy.... I've done a little research on the subject, and from what I see, its almost an exact copy of Kern County's, the highest issuing county in California....Their WRITTEN POLICY REQUIRES an ARTICULATED cause, apparently for the SOLE REASON of keeping the DOJ off their case. I wouldn't doubt if thats why he crafted his policy the way he has.... Picking a FIGHT with the DOJ is a LOSER.... Especially in a time of EXTREME budget shortfalls and when its easy to avoid just by dotting the i's and crossing the t's.

From Kerns policy:
Clarification of good cause statement: Good cause to obtain the CCW license is viewed in part, but not limited to, self defense, defending the life of a citizen, preventing a crime in which human life is in serious jeopardy. The applicant does not need to fear their life is being threatened, but rather the potential for a life-threatening situation exists. Specific facts must accompany the reason the CCW is desired, such as, explaining an incident, dates, times, locations, and names of law enforcement agencies to which these incidents were reported.

Is it UNFORTUNATE that we have to play these semantic games? Of Course, but we have to realize, we LIVE IN CALIFORNIA, and a LARGE MAJORITY of the STATE GOVERNMENT is VIRULENTLY anti-gun.... I can't imagine ANY OF US wouldn't LOVE to be under Kern's policy (I dont know of anybody who isnt otherwise prohibited for cause who was denied in Kern) despite the fact that the process does involve jumping through the "Make Sacramento Happy" clause.

Both Hunter and Hunt have gone on the record in support of AB357, which would make all of this moot.... Only Hutchens has refused to do that.

Vinnie
02-18-2010, 10:35 AM
People have had it with mealy mouth, political speak and are refusing to play that game anymore. Bill Hunt gets my vote… and we’ll see where the chips fall.

Jamsie567
02-18-2010, 3:55 PM
Huh?!? How so? How are they "in it for themselves and their CCW not you."? It's plainly obvious who the Hunt backers are, too! (even if they provide misguided statements about the unproven intentions of the potential Hunter backers)

I don't need no lip service from a political candidate who takes 3 paragraphs to answer one simple question. Your either shall issue or not which Bill Hunt has clearly stated. Your intentions are obvious on why you back Hunter... I am not a firearms instructor # 1 or friend of Carona bent on vengence against Bill Hunt.

OCCCWS is dividing your support to keep their candidate in the race which is clearly a special interest. Bill Hunt kills their operation in opening the process to everyone and allowing OC to join the other 39 states as SHALL ISSUE and takes away their power!

Hunter is NO friend of the Pro 2A gun movement.

Here is your how, who, when, where and why and some Dirt4U...

EXPOSED: CARONA PART 2
Carona Insider Backs Craig Hunter for OC Sheriff (http://http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2009/carona-insider-backs-craig-hunter-for-oc-sheriff/)

From article:

So back to Craig Hunter’s run for OC Sheriff: Is XXXX XXXXX seeking to restore his influence on the department via OCCCWS? A firearms instructor who used insider connections to shove applicants through Carona’s department procedures sure would have a strong interest in putting a friend back in office.

And why the animosity towards Bill Hunt, who ran against Carona and accused him of running an incompetent department? Are XXXXX and OCCCWS harboring a grudge against the man who spoke out against his Caronian meal ticket?
Caronies Seek Supervisor Endorsement for the Next Mike Carona (http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2010/caronies-seek-supervisor-endorsement-for-the-next-mike-carona/)

Craig Hunter The Beatings, the Whistleblower and the Cover-up (http://http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2010/craig-hunter-the-beatings-a-whistleblower-and-the-cover-up/)

Glock22Fan
02-18-2010, 4:15 PM
I don't need no lip service from a political candidate who takes 3 paragraphs to answer one simple question. Your either shall issue or not which Bill Hunt has clearly stated. Your intentions are obvious on why you back Hunter... I am not a firearms instructor # 1 or friend of Carona bent on vengence against Bill Hunt.

OCCCWS is dividing your support to keep their candidate in the race which is clearly a special interest. Bill Hunt kills their operation in opening the process to everyone and allowing OC to join the other 39 states as SHALL ISSUE and takes away their power!

Hunter is NO friend of the Pro 2A gun movement.


I guess the subtleties of political speech are beyond you.

I wish you would spend the venom on Sandra instead of Hunter.

And I'm not a friend of Carona either.

IGOTDIRT4U
02-18-2010, 4:17 PM
Your intentions are obvious on why you back Hunter...

At this point I am going to have call you a liar and a partisan. Unless you can demonstrate that mind reading is a real science, or were near me when I spoke in my sleep something that I did not intend to share, you HAVE NO IDEA WHY I SUPPORT HUNTER!!! Clear and simple. To say anything to the contrary makes you flat out liar. So, since it is very painfully obvious you are a rabid Hunt supporter, I can only surmise that your attempt to portray someone you have never met as a person who has motives that you can mysteriously pluck from thin air, is simply a partisan attack on the opposition.

In depositions, there is a portion of the depo called "admonitions", and during the course of this part of the testimony process, we usually give an example of the difference between a "guess" and an "estimate". Care to take a swing at what you are doing?

IGOTDIRT4U
02-18-2010, 4:17 PM
[/SIZE][/B]

I guess the subtleties of political speech are beyond you.

I wish you would spend the venom on Sandra instead of Hunter.

And I'm not a friend of Carona either.

lol

RomanDad
02-18-2010, 4:22 PM
I don't need no lip service from a political candidate who takes 3 paragraphs to answer one simple question. Your either shall issue or not which Bill Hunt has clearly stated. Your intentions are obvious on why you back Hunter... I am not a firearms instructor # 1 or friend of Carona bent on vengence against Bill Hunt.

OCCCWS is dividing your support to keep their candidate in the race which is clearly a special interest. Bill Hunt kills their operation in opening the process to everyone and allowing OC to join the other 39 states as SHALL ISSUE and takes away their power!

Hunter is NO friend of the Pro 2A gun movement.

Here is your how, who, when, where and why and some Dirt4U...

EXPOSED: CARONA PART 2
Carona Insider Backs Craig Hunter for OC Sheriff (http://http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2009/carona-insider-backs-craig-hunter-for-oc-sheriff/)

From article:


Caronies Seek Supervisor Endorsement for the Next Mike Carona (http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2010/caronies-seek-supervisor-endorsement-for-the-next-mike-carona/)

Craig Hunter The Beatings, the Whistleblower and the Cover-up (http://http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2010/craig-hunter-the-beatings-a-whistleblower-and-the-cover-up/)

So.... Anybody who supported Mike Carona, is a "Carona Croney?" And therefore if they support a candidate then that candidate is suspect?


Does that apply to Ron Cedilos as well?


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/MovieLawyer/CedillosCaronacopy.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/MovieLawyer/CedillosHuntDonation2.jpg

IGOTDIRT4U
02-18-2010, 4:23 PM
EXPOSED: CARONA PART 2
Carona Insider Backs Craig Hunter for OC Sheriff

From article:


Quote:
So back to Craig Hunter’s run for OC Sheriff: Is XXXX XXXXX seeking to restore his influence on the department via OCCCWS? A firearms instructor who used insider connections to shove applicants through Carona’s department procedures sure would have a strong interest in putting a friend back in office.

And why the animosity towards Bill Hunt, who ran against Carona and accused him of running an incompetent department? Are XXXXX and OCCCWS harboring a grudge against the man who spoke out against his Caronian meal ticket?

Caronies Seek Supervisor Endorsement for the Next Mike Carona

Craig Hunter The Beatings, the Whistleblower and the Cover-up


Two of the links don't work and the one that did open is debatable as being the truth. In fact, the author may well find him/herself potentially on the wrong side of a suit, from where I sit. Come'on, the "Friends for Fullerton's Future"?!!?!? Yeah, real reliable stuff there.

IGOTDIRT4U
02-18-2010, 4:24 PM
So.... Anybody who supported Mike Carona, is a "Carona Croney?" And therefore if they support a candidate then that candidate is suspect?


Does that apply to Ron Cedilos as well?


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/MovieLawyer/CedillosCaronacopy.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/MovieLawyer/CedillosHuntDonation.jpg

OUCH!!!!!!!!!

IGOTDIRT4U
02-18-2010, 4:26 PM
WHOA! The "Compton Hunting and Fishing Club"? I have FMCA friends that belong to that club. I need to go speak with them!

RomanDad
02-18-2010, 4:29 PM
OUCH!!!!!!!!!

Ron Cedillos was "The Fourth Musketeer".

mdhpper
02-18-2010, 4:46 PM
With all of this bickering, it looks like Sandra Hutchens will be a shoo-in.

IGOTDIRT4U
02-18-2010, 5:07 PM
With all of this bickering, it looks like Sandra Hutchens will be a shoo-in.

Heh, you missed the part where several of us have reminded the others in this bicker-fest that the issue is beating the "shoo-in" (sic).

RomanDad
02-18-2010, 5:23 PM
...With all of this bickering, it looks like Sandra Hutchens will be a shoo-in.


Why are you running against Craig Hunter? SANDRA HUTCHENS IS THE SHERIFF.

It makes it sound like the goal of the Hunt Campaign is to come in second.

Glock22Fan
02-18-2010, 5:48 PM
With all of this bickering, it looks like Sandra Hutchens will be a shoo-in.


snip
I wish you would spend the venom on Sandra instead of Hunter.
snip.

Several of us have been saying this over several threads for weeks. The first objective is to rally support for both "Hunt" candidates. If you have any dirt against one of these, save it until it's a two man race and Sandra is out of the picture.

The way this bickering is going, Sandra will indeed win by default. I say the way the bickering is going; it is remarkable that the bickering seems to be almost entirely one sided.

IGOTDIRT4U
02-18-2010, 5:53 PM
+1

Second is first loser if Hutchens is the winner. Does us no good. Can we concentrate on her between now and June.....FIRST hurdle is keeping Hutchens under 50%+1 vote.

And another one...

IGOTDIRT4U
02-18-2010, 5:53 PM
Hutchens is the target, not Hunter. Focus your efforts on the wicked witch of LASD, not on Hunter.

Ooops, another one...

IGOTDIRT4U
02-18-2010, 5:54 PM
But back to the original thread topic...I'll take Hunter over Hunt mainly for reasons outside of 2A, but I'm sure glad Hunt is running - it virtually guarantees a runoff election in which Hutchens is even more likely to lose and with either candidate we're a winner on the 2A issue. Why is there so much Hunt/Hunter bashing going on again?? Seems like we would be better served by pounding on Hutchens as clearly she must not be elected.

Wow, another one!!!...

IGOTDIRT4U
02-18-2010, 5:55 PM
The only real difference I see between Hunt's CCW statements and Hunter's is that Hunter is being more cautious for political reasons. Hunter will attract fewer leftie critics by not outright saying "I will go around car parks putting them under screenwipers". There is nothing in Hunter's statements that would stop him from issuing just as many CCW's as Hunt.

I don't have a dog in this race, but I would be judging the relative merits of these guys on other issues. They are close enough on CCW's for me to be happy with either on that score.

The important thing is beating Hutchens.

Whew, getting tired here,... have I made the IMPORTANT point here?!? It's ABS!!!!!

Jamsie567
02-18-2010, 7:24 PM
I said old Carona supporters who are hell bent on making sure Hunt doesn't get elected. If this guy Ron Cedillos wants to show support for Hunt because he is the best candidate then why would I care? Why do you care is the better question OUCH yourself... Yes Hutchens is the opposition but you shouldn't promote people on this forum who don't represent Pro 2A values. If he was it wouldn't take him 3 paragraphs for a very simple response, it's all political BS. I have a bigger issue with the puppeteers in the game than the puppet himself.

You lost all your credibility months ago OCCCWS.

You chalk up the CCW's and Hunter approves them it's good for biz eh? That article of you folks bragging about hanging in Carona's office and how you could approve or deny folks CCW's in OC was very telling. That was your breaking point you had a part in the corruption. :20:

Glock22Fan
02-18-2010, 8:30 PM
I said old Carona supporters who are hell bent on making sure Hunt doesn't get elected. If this guy Ron Cedillos wants to show support for Hunt because he is the best candidate then why would I care? Why do you care is the better question OUCH yourself... Yes Hutchens is the opposition but you shouldn't promote people on this forum who don't represent Pro 2A values. If he was it wouldn't take him 3 paragraphs for a very simple response, it's all political BS. I have a bigger issue with the puppeteers in the game than the puppet himself.

You lost all your credibility months ago OCCCWS.

You chalk up the CCW's and Hunter approves them it's good for biz eh? That article of you folks bragging about hanging in Carona's office and how you could approve or deny folks CCW's in OC was very telling. That was your breaking point you had a part in the corruption. :20:

He's done a simple response. I'm happy with it. His response does come close to Shall Issue, if only you would listen between the words: words that many of us feel are necessary to keep hom on the good side of the DoJ and the A.G.

I have never met Carona or had anything to do with him. I do not know who OCCCWS is, or what he or she has to do with things. I do know that I had at one time upset the OC crowd through my association with Billy Jack, I was told I would be banned if I tried to join their website, so I don't think you can say that I am in the "in" crowd.


You lost all your credibility months ago


As far as I'm concerned, you have never had any. You don't appear to understand the nuances of English, you do not appear to understand the necessity to appease the DoJ, you do not appear to understand the neccessity to defeat Sandra first time around.

If you haven't anything more intelligent to say other than being nasty to anyone who supports Hunter, I suggest you go and do it elsewhere.

RomanDad
02-18-2010, 10:34 PM
You chalk up the CCW's and Hunter approves them it's good for biz eh? That article of you folks bragging about hanging in Carona's office and how you could approve or deny folks CCW's in OC was very telling. That was your breaking point you had a part in the corruption. :20:
What in the hell are you talking about?

1. Ive never BRAGGED about anything to do with Mike Carona. I've never met him... EVER....

2. I have no "Biz" that has any relation to CCW....

3. If you want to accuse me of corruption, you better have some facts to back it up sport...

4. I suggest you quit while you're ahead.

RomanDad
02-18-2010, 10:52 PM
As far as I'm concerned, you have never had any.

Exactly.... The Hunter supporters in this thread have YEARS of being involved in the pro CCW movement... We have TENS OF THOUSANDS OF POSTS on this website, contributing to and discussing the issue... We have tens of thousands of OTHER posts on OTHER forums and some even have our own websites devoted to the issue... And "Jamie come lately " with his whopping 30 posts devoted to shilling for Bill Hunt feels he has the moral authority to lecture US on who's more pro second amendment? Get over yourself.

glbtrottr
02-19-2010, 7:04 AM
Point taken but how many politicians sacrifice their own career and call their boss corrupt?

Because Bill Hunt wasn't corrupt?

Wait - it's a Jamsie post! Nevermind. Political campaigning by taunting the natives and poking his opponents at its best.

What's next, meeting at the back of the burger joint after school?

Snore.

Brianguy
02-19-2010, 12:35 PM
Some very interesting reading here :popcorn:

IGOTDIRT4U
02-19-2010, 2:37 PM
That article of you folks bragging about hanging in Carona's office and how you could approve or deny folks CCW's in OC was very telling. That was your breaking point you had a part in the corruption.



What the heck are you babbling about?!? And to what or who was this directed? It can't be me; I have never met Carona nor have I ever sent him any contribution for any of his campaigns. In fact, any CCW I may have does not nor ever had his signature on it.

Me thinks the Hunt supporters here are making Hunt look bad by their unsettling, near violent, ways.

"Some people will gag on a gnat, and next swallow an elephant."

glbtrottr
02-19-2010, 7:21 PM
Is the username Jamsie567 a pseudonym for Bill Hunt? Jamsie seems to know tons about Bill Hunt, his campaign, he represents him, and sounds even more passionate than his own campaign manager... I know Bill had a previous username for his previous campaign but we haven't seen him since...

Is that you, Mr. Bill Hunt?
Or does Jamsie stand for everything you represent?

Inquiring minds...

Glock22Fan
02-19-2010, 7:28 PM
Is the username Jamsie567 a pseudonym for Bill Hunt? Jamsie seems to know tons about Bill Hunt, his campaign, he represents him, and sounds even more passionate than his own campaign manager... I know Bill had a previous username for his previous campaign but we haven't seen him since...

Is that you, Mr. Bill Hunt?
Or does Jamsie stand for everything you represent?

Inquiring minds...

Surely a candidate for Sheriff would sound more intelligent?

And surely Bill Hunt would realize that his best chance of beating Sandra would be to add as many votes for other (non Sandra) candidates as possible to his in the first round, and then concentrate his efforts on beating whoever comes second in the final round?

SteveH
02-19-2010, 7:53 PM
Either one is better than Hutchens.

In all your arguing you have missed some cause for celebration. Hillman got laid off effective today.

Jamsie567
02-19-2010, 8:23 PM
Is the username Jamsie567 a pseudonym for Bill Hunt? Jamsie seems to know tons about Bill Hunt, his campaign, he represents him, and sounds even more passionate than his own campaign manager... I know Bill had a previous username for his previous campaign but we haven't seen him since...

Is that you, Mr. Bill Hunt?
Or does Jamsie stand for everything you represent?

Inquiring minds...

The goon squad is back. I am sure Bill Hunt probably has a lot more important things to do then talk to a few good ole boys. You really don't have to search very hard to find dirt on you knit wits it's all over the web. I am tempted to do another google search don't make me do it!

Glock22Fan
02-19-2010, 11:06 PM
The goon squad is back. I am sure Bill Hunt probably has a lot more important things to do then talk to a few good ole boys. You really don't have to search very hard to find dirt on you knit wits it's all over the web. I am tempted to do another google search don't make me do it!

It is one thing being called a nitwit, quite another being called a knit wit. Being insulted by someone of obviously challenged ability isn't really that much of an insult :D

And be my guest, you won't find much, if any, dirt on me on the web.

RomanDad
02-19-2010, 11:07 PM
Either one is better than Hutchens.

In all your arguing you have missed some cause for celebration. Hillman got laid off effective today.

I didnt miss it..... And neither did the BOS when they chastised her about it last week at the BOS meeting..... The real questions is "Is somebody who leaves a job because he gets a better higher paying one with another company" really "LAID OFF" with all the rights and privileges that term entitles him to?

RomanDad
02-19-2010, 11:11 PM
The goon squad is back. I am sure Bill Hunt probably has a lot more important things to do then talk to a few good ole boys. You really don't have to search very hard to find dirt on you knit wits it's all over the web. I am tempted to do another google search don't make me do it!

Hey, Inspector Clouseau: Did you come across this little gem in your interweb dirt hunt?


http://cbs2.com/video/?id=10772@kcbs.dayport.com


I told you once Jamie.... Quit while you're ahead.... I can do this all week....

glbtrottr
02-20-2010, 8:42 AM
The goon squad is back.

I'm sorry - what is a "Goon Squad" ? As I was not raised in this country (though I was born here), the reference is lost on me. It comes across as an insult...

"1. goon squad: Two or more gentlemen employed by a mob boss, labor union, politician, or other disreputable sod to rough people up, break their legs, or bust their chops."

Are you calling me violent? You have me confused. I am as anti-union as it gets. Did Bill Hunt get the Union endorsement?

I am sure Bill Hunt probably has a lot more important things to do than talk to a few good ole boys.

Fixed it for you. I can think of little more important than a prospective politician than to be in touch with a constituency he wants to attract. Apparently you are the kind of person Mr. Hunt wants on his team.

The reference to "good ole boys" is also lost on me. I had to google it:

"Good ol' boy is a slang term used in the United States, either to self-identify as or to refer to a male, usually white and of Northern/Western-European descent, who lives in a rural area and/or subscribes to a traditionally "rural" lifestyle. The term is generally thought to originate in the rural areas of the southern and southwestern U.S. While other terms such as redneck, hick, yokel, "Bubba", and "white trash" are also applied, though usually pejoratively and are often interchanged with "good ol' boy," the "good ol' boy" is more of an idealized image of rural Americans."

Are you saying Mr. Hunt doesn't want white males living in a rural area voting for him? Surprising since he invited Sheriff Arpaio to speak on his behalf. Can everyone raise their hands who thinks Joe Arpaio is a "Good Ole Boy"? ok...

I don't think you were referring to me as a white male living in a rural area. While I'm male, I'm not entirely or technically considered white, and I don't think Laguna Beach is generally thought of as rural - though it is certainly congested. I did grow up in my share of farms, though...

I'll tell you what comes to mind when I think of "Good Ole Boy" after reading this definition: Former Officer Stevenson getting a pass on his Driving under the Influence arrest because he called his good buddy Bill Hunt, to whose campaign he previously contributed. Bill Hunt giving his campaign contributors a hall pass on DUI's. Would you agree with that assessment, Jamsie?

You really don't have to search very hard to find dirt on you knit wits it's all over the web.

Why are you calling me/us knitwits?

http://www.knitwit.com/

http://doodleloom.com/tools.jpg

Are you calling me a tool, or are you saying I'm effeminate? Either way, to me, it's an insult. Why are you so aggressive? What makes namecallers and people like you so aggressive?

I am tempted to do another google search. Don't make me do it!(fragment) (fixed it for you) Threat alert!

I did another google search for you. Someone who has trouble with spelling, grammar and punctuation is generally or loosely referred to as "illiterate". Ask me, I would know: learning English in this country was a rough experience, with many an ignorant soul referring to me as one as I was going through the process.

Here's a link to a wikipedia article on illiteracy - very informative. Jimmy, the founder of wikipedia, is a good friend of the family; while not considered an encyclopedic body of knowledge, we like to sponsor its use.

SteveH
02-20-2010, 8:49 AM
I didnt miss it..... And neither did the BOS when they chastised her about it last week at the BOS meeting..... The real questions is "Is somebody who leaves a job because he gets a better higher paying one with another company" really "LAID OFF" with all the rights and privileges that term entitles him to?

I dont care where he is going, as long as he is gone.

Python2
02-20-2010, 9:22 AM
You folks down south are brutal, :rofl2: This is fun, just dont forget its Hutchen we want to get rid off.

RomanDad
02-20-2010, 9:41 AM
I dont care where he is going, as long as he is gone.

Nobody is happier to see him go than me.... I was one of the people at "The Frisking of 2009"... I just dont think its right that the Sheriff "Lay off" her buddy Iron Mike (entitling him to extra money from the OC taxpayers), when in fact he left to take a job with Bill Bratton at Alegrity (http://www.altegrity.com/).


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/MovieLawyer/cops203.jpg

SteveH
02-20-2010, 9:43 AM
Is Hunter well liked by his troops? Will APD be sad to see him go? That usually says a lot about a leader.

SteveH
02-20-2010, 9:44 AM
Nobody is happier to see him go than me.... I was one of the people at "The Frisking of 2009"... I just dont think its right that the Sheriff "Lay off" her buddy Iron Mike (entitling him to extra money from the OC taxpayers), when in fact he left to take a job with Bill Bratton at Alegrity (http://www.altegrity.com/)


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/MovieLawyer/cops203.jpg

Never saw that pic before. Didnt know he ever actually got out of the office for anything other than helicopter rides and funerals. <G>

RomanDad
02-20-2010, 9:45 AM
You folks down south are brutal, :rofl2: This is fun, just dont forget its Hutchen we want to get rid off.

Amen to that.

RomanDad
02-20-2010, 9:48 AM
Never saw that pic before. Didnt know he ever actually got out of the office for anything other than helicopter rides and funerals. <G>

:rofl: I may be mistaken, but I beleive that picture was taken at the ACADEMY AWARDS a few years back.... A couple of the usuals came out to protest and Hillman did his patented "make Mt Everest out of a mole hill" routine....

His problem was, he LOVED to get out of the office.... He's an adrenaline junkie... He likes to jump out of helicopters and kick in doors (and with all due respect, he was VERY good at that) but there isn't much need for that in Orange County.... We get one or two SWAT call-outs a year here.... AND HE WAS BORED ****LESS. So he ran around OC in his copter and created crisis to keep himself busy....

At great cost to the taxpayer and personal freedom...

vrand
02-20-2010, 11:46 AM
Hey, Inspector Clouseau: Did you come across this little gem in your interweb dirt hunt?


http://cbs2.com/video/?id=10772@kcbs.dayport.com


I told you once Jamie.... Quit while you're ahead.... I can do this all week....

ouch

ABS- Anybody But Sandra

:thumbsup:

Doheny
02-20-2010, 3:05 PM
If no one gets 50% +1, do they have another election which includes all candidates, a run-off of the top two or what?

.

tango-52
02-20-2010, 3:15 PM
If no one gets 50% +1, do they have another election which includes all candidates, a run-off of the top two or what?

.

The June election is a Primary. If no one gets the 50% + 1 vote, then there will be a runoff of the top two vote getters in November in the General Election. That is why the focus needs to be on getting Hunter and Hunt to be the top two, with Hutchens left behind.

Doheny
02-20-2010, 3:18 PM
...focus needs to be on getting Hunter and Hunt to be the top two, with Hutchens left behind.

I can live with that; save the bickering for November. :)

There is no way either one of them will unseat an incumbent now. The best we can hope for is a run off between Hunt and Hunter.

.

U2BassAce
02-20-2010, 6:28 PM
I can live with that; save the bickering for November. :)

There is no way either one of them will unseat an incumbent now. The best we can hope for is a run off between Hunt and Hunter.

.

You are probably right on unseated an appointed Sheriff alone in the primary. Though I think one of them would (if she does not get knocked out) have a good shot in a run off against her when a lot more attention (excitement) will be paid to the race by the average voter than the primary.

Hunter and Hunt do have overlap, but one thing that is good is they also are pulling from separate pools of voters in a lot of ways. There are certain voters that Hunter would not get either way and certain voters that Hunt would not get either way. But together they can draw a large cross section......thus keeping the appointed Sheriff from getting over that 50% + 1 threshold.

The appointed Sheriff has to be worried that the perfect storm is brewing against her. All we have to do is NOT offer her any umbrellas in the way of our own bickering.

Glock22Fan
02-20-2010, 6:36 PM
are you saying I'm effeminate? Either way, to me, it's an insult.

My only problem with your post is that, although I don't knit, I do crochet (just finished a couple of sweaters/coats for my new grandkid due in April and a couple of pairs of bedsocks for my frozen (because of bad circulation) feet).

Indeed, for those of you who have heard of Aran or Fair Isle or Shetland sweaters (traditionally cable knit in untreated off-white lanolin-rich, thus pretty waterproof, wool), knitting those used to be the sole perogative of burly North Sea trawler men; they don't come much less effeminate than them. Aran, Fair Isle and Shetland are storm-lashed islands well off the Scottish coast, good only for sheep and fishing. The men are tough and the women maybe even tougher.

However, calling someone a "knit wit" definitely says a lot about the name caller. Nothing good, either. Bill HUnt must cringe if he is reading these posts.

jont92619
02-21-2010, 9:54 AM
Hey, Inspector Clouseau: Did you come across this little gem in your interweb dirt hunt?


http://cbs2.com/video/?id=10772@kcbs.dayport.com


I told you once Jamie.... Quit while you're ahead.... I can do this all week....

Good lord, this worthless pile of video again. Last I checked nothing came of this after an investigation. Steve Lopez ran around peeing his pants and saying the sky was falling and it turned out there was no wrong doing...

jont92619
02-21-2010, 9:57 AM
You are probably right on unseated an appointed Sheriff alone in the primary. Though I think one of them would (if she does not get knocked out) have a good shot in a run off against her when a lot more attention (excitement) will be paid to the race by the average voter than the primary.

Hunter and Hunt do have overlap, but one thing that is good is they also are pulling from separate pools of voters in a lot of ways. There are certain voters that Hunter would not get either way and certain voters that Hunt would not get either way. But together they can draw a large cross section......thus keeping the appointed Sheriff from getting over that 50% + 1 threshold.

The appointed Sheriff has to be worried that the perfect storm is brewing against her. All we have to do is NOT offer her any umbrellas in the way of our own bickering.



Fear the absentee ballots... Lots of ignorant & clueless voters out there who will vote for her because they don't know any better and races are won by absentee ballots in the OC. They get mailed in May.

Glock22Fan
02-21-2010, 12:20 PM
Good lord, this worthless pile of video again. Last I checked nothing came of this after an investigation. Steve Lopez ran around peeing his pants and saying the sky was falling and it turned out there was no wrong doing...

I think that Roman's Dad (who can always speak for himself of course) is making the point that you can google up all sorts of bovine excretia on the internet, some of it maybe true and some of it rubbish.

By finding such BS that supports his (RD's) view, he is casting doubt on all the BS Jamsie found that cast doubt the other direction.

IGOTDIRT4U
02-22-2010, 8:38 AM
Either one is better than Hutchens.

In all your arguing you have missed some cause for celebration. Hillman got laid off effective today.

Really?!? That's a new dynamic in this game.

IGOTDIRT4U
02-22-2010, 8:46 AM
ouch

ABS- Anybody But Sandra

:thumbsup:

Careful, Jamie doesn't like the term "ouch". He just might investigate you on Google, too! After all, he KNOWS you are corrupt, even before you knew it.

dantodd
02-22-2010, 10:20 AM
However, calling someone a "knit wit" definitely says a lot about the name caller. Nothing good, either.

Yes, when attacking someone's intelligence it is best to double check your spelling and remain within the limits of your own vocabulary.

(Though I have no direct dog in this fight I was quite entertained when he posted that.)


LOL.....

IGOTDIRT4U
02-22-2010, 10:45 AM
Yes, when attacking someone's intelligence it is best to double check your spelling and remain within the limits of your own vocabulary.

(Though I have no direct dog in this fight I was quite entertained when he posted that.)


LOL.....

Everytime I hear/see the term "knit-wit" it brings to mind an old Pick Panther cartoon...

OK, back on subject. Since there is a chance the month of May could bring election results into play via the absentee voters, what is the OC Ordinance on how long ahead of an election you can put up yard signs?