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View Full Version : Firearm denial from DOJ... Help!


vicb
02-14-2010, 1:43 PM
I purchased my first handgun (more like paid) 10 days ago. I was informed today by my gun dealer that I was deined. I submitted a PFEC "Personal Firearm Eligibilty Check" last November and I received a letter from DOJ that said I am eligible to both purchase and own a firearm from the date the check was completed.

My dealer gave me the DOJ clearance department phone to call. Why would this happen? Now I'm just afraid if this doesn't clear up I am out couple hundred dollars for the 30% restocking fee.

Any thoughts or advice?

HowardW56
02-14-2010, 1:44 PM
I purchased my first handgun (more like paid) 10 days ago. I was informed today by my gun dealer that I was deined. I submitted a PFEC "Personal Firearm Eligibilty Check" last November and I received a letter from DOJ that said I am eligible to both purchase and own a firearm from the date the check was completed.

My dealer gave me the DOJ clearance department phone to call. Why would this happen? Now I'm just afraid if this doesn't clear up I am out couple hundred dollars for the 30% restocking fee.

Any thoughts or advice?

What prompted you to send in the eligibility check form?

DOJ does make mistakes from time to time..

ke6guj
02-14-2010, 1:52 PM
What prompted you to send in the eligibility check form?
this.

Is it possible that the gave you the ok back in Nov, but upon further review, it was determined that it isn't OK?

OC4ME
02-14-2010, 1:54 PM
...good luck. Eric Holder is looking out for you.:)

vicb
02-14-2010, 2:08 PM
I had some blemishes on my record when I was 14 yrs old. I am 29 yrs old now haven't had anything since then.

DB2
02-14-2010, 2:13 PM
You need to call the # the shop gave you.

You can be denied on anything from an unpaid parking ticket to a felony. I was denied due to no record of insurance on file with DMV. DMV put a hold on my liscense, which caused the BG check to fail.

You need to call.

littlejake
02-14-2010, 2:15 PM
Did you have that juvenile record sealed when you turned 18?

If you get the sense this is more that something simple... close mouth and lawyer up fast.

Acorn556
02-14-2010, 2:32 PM
Did you have that juvenile record sealed when you turned 18?

If you get the sense this is more that something simple... close mouth and lawyer up fast.

IF he did things at 14 that kept him from getting a gun I'm going to assume they were DAMN serious.

Call the number
Talk to who you need to
Get that letter out
Call a lawyer when nothing comes out right or you get no answers.

Joe
02-14-2010, 2:34 PM
call the number and see what they say.

vicb
02-14-2010, 2:38 PM
Will do first thing Tuesday.

Thanks

bigcalidave
02-14-2010, 2:42 PM
And F the dealer that wants to charge you 30% restocking fee for a gun that never was purchased. I know of shops around here that charge $25 or something like that. But a restocking fee? I'd freak out.

hoffmang
02-14-2010, 2:43 PM
That you passed the PFEC strongly implies its something minor now. Call the number, see what they have to say. Sometimes they confuse you with someone else. Sometimes its problems with your DL.

I recommend that everyone get a CA ID. It can't be invalidated by DMV BS and so is always valid to purchase with.

-Gene

Sgt Raven
02-14-2010, 2:48 PM
That you passed the PFEC strongly implies its something minor now. Call the number, see what they have to say. Sometimes they confuse you with someone else. Sometimes its problems with your DL.

I recommend that everyone get a CA ID. It can't be invalidated by DMV BS and so is always valid to purchase with.

-Gene

Plus keep it separate when traveling so you have a back up ID for boarding a plane.

Roadrunner
02-14-2010, 3:07 PM
I thought you could only have one or the other, not both. As I understand it, a drivers license number or an ID card number are the same.

Sgt Raven
02-14-2010, 3:08 PM
I thought you could only have one or the other, not both. As I understand it, a drivers license number or an ID card number are the same.

No you can have both. ;)

chrisw
02-14-2010, 3:12 PM
No you can have both. ;)

wow, good to know.

socalgunrunner
02-14-2010, 3:17 PM
And F the dealer that wants to charge you 30% restocking fee for a gun that never was purchased. I know of shops around here that charge $25 or something like that. But a restocking fee? I'd freak out.

I don't know if it's relevant in this particular case, but most dealers will charge you a restocking fee on an item that had to be special ordered.

Crazed_SS
02-14-2010, 3:29 PM
No you can have both. ;)

Yea.. I have both. They have the same #

vicb
02-15-2010, 5:09 PM
I got a speeding ticket 3 weeks ago... Would that affect me?

HowardW56
02-15-2010, 5:14 PM
I got a speeding ticket 3 weeks ago... Would that affect me?

No, that wouldn't... It would have to be older/beyond the court date, and a FTA noted on your DL record...

2600fromAtari
02-15-2010, 6:19 PM
I had some blemishes on my record when I was 14 yrs old. I am 29 yrs old now haven't had anything since then.

Page 29/55. Your age could be the reason why...

"Any person subject to juvenile court law and adjudged a ward of the juvenile court within the meaning of Section 602 of the Welfare and Institutions Code for any of the following offenses, shall not own, possess, or have under his or her custody or control any firearm until reaching 30 years of age (Penal Code § 12021(e)):"

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

Theseus
02-15-2010, 6:20 PM
I thought you could only have one or the other, not both. As I understand it, a drivers license number or an ID card number are the same.

Yeah, when I moved to California and read up the DMV manual to prepare for the CA driving test I could have sworn it said you can't have both a California ID and DL.

It doesn't matter much now since I can't buy guns here. . . :banghead:

HowardW56
02-15-2010, 6:23 PM
Page 29/55. Your age could be the reason why...

"Any person subject to juvenile court law and adjudged a ward of the juvenile court within the meaning of Section 602 of the Welfare and Institutions Code for any of the following offenses, shall not own, possess, or have under his or her custody or control any firearm until reaching 30 years of age (Penal Code § 12021(e)):"

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

THis applies if the offence is listed in 707 WIC...

ke6guj
02-15-2010, 6:25 PM
Yeah, when I moved to California and read up the DMV manual to prepare for the CA driving test I could have sworn it said you can't have both a California ID and DL.


looking at the DMV website, I see the following:


Identification (ID) cards
DMV issues ID cards to persons of any age. The ID card looks like a driver license, but is used for identification purposes only. A regular ID card is valid for six years, and a senior citizen ID card is valid for 10 years. To qualify for a senior citizen ID card, you must be age 62 or older.


How to apply for or renew an identification (ID) card
DMV issues two types of ID cards. A regular ID card valid for six years, and a senior citizen ID card valid for 10 years. To qualify for a senior citizen ID card, you must be age 62 or older.

To apply for an ID card you will need to do the following:

•Visit a DMV office (make an Appointment(s) for faster service)
•Complete application form DL 44 (An original DL 44 form must be submitted. Copies will not be accepted.)
•Give a thumb print
•Have your picture taken
•Provide your social security number. It will be verified with the Social Security Administration while you are in the office.
•Verify your birth date and legal presence (you may use your California driver license)
•Pay the application fee. (No fee for a senior citizen ID card.)I don't see them saying you have to surrender the DL.

ke6guj
02-15-2010, 6:30 PM
Page 29/55. Your age could be the reason why...

"Any person subject to juvenile court law and adjudged a ward of the juvenile court within the meaning of Section 602 of the Welfare and Institutions Code for any of the following offenses, shall not own, possess, or have under his or her custody or control any firearm until reaching 30 years of age (Penal Code § 12021(e)):"

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

Yup, you said you had "some blemishes" when you were 14.

the list covered is pretty big:

• Murder.
• Arson that causes great bodily injury or arson of an inhabited structure or property.
(Penal Code §§ 451(a) and (b).)
• Robbery while armed with a dangerous or deadly weapon.
• Rape with force or violence or threat of great bodily harm.
• Sodomy by force, violence, duress, menace, or threat of great bodily harm.
• Lewd or lascivious act on a child under the age of 14. (Penal Code § 288(b).)
• Oral copulation by force, violence, duress, menace, or threat of great bodily harm.
• Sexual assault with a foreign object. (Penal Code § 289.)
• Kidnapping for ransom.
• Kidnapping for purpose of robbery, rape, spousal rape, etc. (Penal Code
§ 209(b)(1).)
• Kidnapping with bodily harm.
• Assault with intent to murder or attempted murder.
• Assault with a firearm or destructive device.
• Assault by any means of force likely to produce great bodily injury.
• Discharge of a firearm into an inhabited or occupied building.
• Specified crimes against persons 60 years of age or older, blind persons, paraplegics, or
quadriplegics as described in Penal Code section 1203.09.
• Use of a firearm in the commission or attempted commission of a felony; discharge
of a firearm at an occupied motor vehicle causing great bodily injury or death; use of a firearm
to commit the controlled substances violations described in Penal Code
sections 12022.5 or 12022.53.
• Any felony offense in which the minor personally used a weapon described in Penal
Code section 12020(a).
• Felony intimidation of a witness and victim as described in Penal Code section 136.1 or
influencing the testimony or information given to a law enforcement official as described in Penal
Code section 137.
• Manufacturing, compounding, or selling one-half ounce or more of any salt or
solution of a controlled substance specified in Health and Safety Code section
11055(e).
• Possessing for sale, or selling a substance containing 28.5 grams or more of cocaine
as specified in Penal Code section 1203.073.
• Any of the specified violent felonies listed in Penal Code section 667.5(c) committed for the
benefit, direction, or association with any criminal street gang as described in Penal Code section
186.22(b).
• Intentionally inflicting great bodily injury on an employee of a juvenile facility
during an escape by the use of force or violence in violation of Welfare and
Institutions Code section 871(b).
• Torture as described in Penal Code sections 206 and 206.1.
• Aggravated mayhem as described in Penal Code section 205.
California Firearms Laws 2007 25
• Carjacking as described in Penal Code section 215 while armed with a dangerous or deadly
weapon.
• Kidnapping as punishable in Penal Code section 209.5.
• Willfully and maliciously discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle at another
person other than an occupant of a motor vehicle.
• Exploding, igniting, or attempting to explode or ignite any destructive device or
explosive with intent to commit murder.
• Any of the offenses listed in Penal Code section 12021(c)(1).
• Carrying a concealed handgun. (Penal Code § 12025).
• Carrying a loaded handgun. (Penal Code § 12031).
• Allowing another to transport a loaded handgun in a vehicle. (Penal Code § 12034).

Many of them are big-time felonies, but others are on the lower end of the "evilness" scale, and even as a misdemeanor, are prohibiting until the age of 30.

Lagduf
02-15-2010, 6:44 PM
That you passed the PFEC strongly implies its something minor now. Call the number, see what they have to say. Sometimes they confuse you with someone else. Sometimes its problems with your DL.

I recommend that everyone get a CA ID. It can't be invalidated by DMV BS and so is always valid to purchase with.

-Gene

This is what I always use when I purchase firearms.

Twystd1
02-15-2010, 10:23 PM
I have a CDL AND a CID card. No problemo. Get one if ya need.
AND they have different addresses. (I moved)

Cheers,
Twystd1

tenpercentfirearms
02-16-2010, 5:15 AM
You can be denied on anything from an unpaid parking ticket to a felony. I was denied due to no record of insurance on file with DMV. DMV put a hold on my liscense, which caused the BG check to fail.

You need to call.This is a little extreme. You don't get denied because of an unpaid parking ticket or not having insurance on file with the DMV. You get denied because you no longer have a valid driver's license. The way you phrased it was quite broad and could be interpreted to mean "You will get denied if you break the law!" No actually, it is quite specific. Not having a valid DL because it is suspended for you not keeping your records up to date is different than not having insurance on file with the DMV. Cause and effect.

The ID card is a good idea, but then again, I have never had a problem with just using my DL.

And F the dealer that wants to charge you 30% restocking fee for a gun that never was purchased. I know of shops around here that charge $25 or something like that. But a restocking fee? I'd freak out.Actually it was purchased. However, to keep customers who obsess over the "restocking fee", I call it a cancellation or DROS denial fee. I don't want to be a background check for people to come in, pay their $25 and see if they can buy a gun. I am spending the time to make a sale and do the paperwork, I am going to get paid for it.

Now in this young man's case, if he gets it cleared up and reapplies and passes, I wouldn't sweat him and would just charge for the second DROS. If he is permanently prohibited, I am keeping $50 for my time. And from a business perspective it makes sense to make money off of a guy that will never be buying guns or ammo from you again. You won't be burning a bridge of a long time customer.

vicb
02-16-2010, 5:17 AM
Well, I'll be calling DOJ shortly.

SanPedroShooter
02-16-2010, 5:29 AM
so if you use your CA id, it blocks the avenue of a DMV hold? did i read that right. And to go off topic a bit, i just drossed a wasr and when i came to the part about optional SSN the salesman implied that i should leave it blank. any good reason?

Lone_Gunman
02-16-2010, 8:54 AM
News?

HowardW56
02-16-2010, 12:03 PM
Still waiting........................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...................

CnCFunFactory
02-16-2010, 1:16 PM
two weeks.... like everything else the government is involved in.

Seriously though would love to know how you made out, hopefully a positive outcome.:D

Jeremy S.
02-16-2010, 1:23 PM
Here is my story of possibly the same problem.

I had purchased both long guns and hand guns from 2001 - 2005 with out any issues.

In 2008, I purchased a shotgun at cinco grande. When I went to pick it up, the manager pulled me aside and told me that I was denied by the DOJ to purchase the gun.

I was very upset and confused. They gave me a number to call and refunded my $.

I called the DOJ and they said that they did delay the purchase because I must not have provide my soc sec #. The DOJ lady said that they had a criminal record on someone with a "close matching name".

I ran a PFEC on my self (pain in the a**) and it came back good. I ran a live scan on myself (even bigger pain) and it came back as expected.

I now provide my soc sec number on all DROS and have not run into a problem since.

I just wanted to share my story w/you in hopes that you have the same issue that I did and that my experience helps you.

I am thankful that the DOJ is doing what they are paid (by us) to do: Keeping guns out of criminals hands when they follow the law and try to purchase them legally. /sarcasm

Mikeinblack
02-16-2010, 8:11 PM
The DOJ lady said that they had a criminal record on someone with a "close matching name".


Hmm... Wow, I have one of the most common names in the country and while I get harassed every time I go to the airport, the DOJ has never blinked an eye...

tenpercentfirearms
02-16-2010, 8:55 PM
so if you use your CA id, it blocks the avenue of a DMV hold? did i read that right. And to go off topic a bit, i just drossed a wasr and when i came to the part about optional SSN the salesman implied that i should leave it blank. any good reason?

You leave it blank because it says it is optional. When the government says it is optional, leave it blank.

Another good reason is you don't need your gun dealer having that much info. The dealer now has almost all of your data to open up accounts or sell that data. If the gun dealer is legit, then you also have one more place that data can be stolen from as well.

I called the DOJ and they said that they did delay the purchase because I must not have provide my soc sec #. The DOJ lady said that they had a criminal record on someone with a "close matching name".

I ran a PFEC on my self (pain in the a**) and it came back good. I ran a live scan on myself (even bigger pain) and it came back as expected.

I now provide my soc sec number on all DROS and have not run into a problem since.

The DOJ lady was full of crap. Your SSN is not transmitted on DROS. The only thing the DOJ needs is your DL or ID # and DOB. They base all of their decisions on that and that alone. You have not been putting your SSN on DROS unless you are typing it in by hand in the comments section or hand writing it. You might be putting it on the 4473, but that is not transmitted to anyone and will have nothing to do with your background check.

There is a possibility that the DOJ might call and ask the dealer for your SSN on the document. I have never had that happen and have sold thousands of guns over the last 4 and a half years.

vicb
02-16-2010, 9:08 PM
Guys,

I spoke to DOJ this morning and I guess it is a little bizarre. They told me I was rejected because I have 242pc (assault/battery) on my record. Although this happened when I was juvenile it puts a hold until age 30. What's wierd is I bought an AR in December with no problem and also had na eligible PFEC in November.

DOJ told me that sometimes courts don't send them the offence files which prompts them to clear people. They said when they don't receive the files that means the files were expunged or destroyed. So I guess I'll wait a couple more months.

I already paid for the firearm, I am going to see if they will keep my money and just hold it until I clear which will be in about 2 months.

Thank you all for your feedback!

Wild Squid
02-17-2010, 12:42 AM
Well good luck, hope you get your gun. Hope the dealer doesn't act like a ***** about the whole thing too, and will actually hold it for you.

zman
02-17-2010, 8:07 AM
Guys,

I spoke to DOJ this morning and I guess it is a little bizarre. They told me I was rejected because I have 242pc (assault/battery) on my record. Although this happened when I was juvenile it puts a hold until age 30. What's wierd is I bought an AR in December with no problem and also had na eligible PFEC in November.

DOJ told me that sometimes courts don't send them the offence files which prompts them to clear people. They said when they don't receive the files that means the files were expunged or destroyed. So I guess I'll wait a couple more months.

I already paid for the firearm, I am going to see if they will keep my money and just hold it until I clear which will be in about 2 months.

Thank you all for your feedback!

Thanks for the update!

Page 29/55. Your age could be the reason why...

"Any person subject to juvenile court law and adjudged a ward of the juvenile court within the meaning of Section 602 of the Welfare and Institutions Code for any of the following offenses, shall not own, possess, or have under his or her custody or control any firearm until reaching 30 years of age (Penal Code § 12021(e)):"

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

You were right on the money, my friend.

spddrcr
02-17-2010, 8:13 AM
the next logical question is what happens to the guns he currently owns now?:confused:

OleCuss
02-17-2010, 8:30 AM
the next logical question is what happens to the guns he currently owns now?:confused:

If I were him I'd keep my mouth shut, ask no questions and don't post any more about this on this or any other forum.

If ever hauled into court: he had faith in the government to do a good check and thought he was complying with the law. No intent to violate the law whatsoever.

Anothercoilgun
02-17-2010, 7:13 PM
These post scare me more than an intruder. "I got denied" sends shivers down my bones.

Strpd_Up_Brotha
02-23-2010, 12:51 PM
Guess My Brother CAN buy one......i know he has 2 felonies when he was 16.. He Just went to Juvenile Courts yesterday to ask for records....now it seems he doesn't need it , since he is 35 now......

Cougar
02-23-2010, 1:15 PM
.... You can be denied on anything from an unpaid parking ticket to a felony. I was denied due to no record of insurance on file with DMV. DMV put a hold on my liscense, which caused the BG check to fail.....

Amazing. Yet perfectly believable.

Why is it that I can not reconcile this with the following text???

...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

halifax
02-23-2010, 1:19 PM
Amazing. Yet perfectly believable.

Why is it that I can not reconcile this with the following text???

Because the majority of Americans are FOR "common sense" gun laws.

dantodd
02-23-2010, 1:54 PM
Amazing. Yet perfectly believable.

Why is it that I can not reconcile this with the following text???

Because those words have no impact of California. Hopefully they will by the end of June but until then they are irrelevant to our gun laws.

Untamed1972
02-23-2010, 2:50 PM
If I were him I'd keep my mouth shut, ask no questions and don't post any more about this on this or any other forum.

If ever hauled into court: he had faith in the government to do a good check and thought he was complying with the law. No intent to violate the law whatsoever.


seems to me the simple answer would be "Here is the copy of the elibility letter I got from the state that said I was good to go. If that was in error your honor, how I would have anyway of knowing they since they are the keepers of the database and I have no other means to verify the accuracy of the info they give me other then to accept their word on it."