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View Full Version : should we "protest" racist gun laws?


gunsmith
02-14-2010, 1:58 AM
the facts are clear, gun control is pure racism, why not put pressure
on law firms that support the anti's? why do we let the Jackson's and Sharpton's
have all the "fun". loud demo's outside of law offices in CA would have an effect.
They would hate being portrayed as racist, yet they truly are.
I know, we have jobs and stuff. ... yet ... it can have a positive affect.
what do you think?

jumbopanda
02-14-2010, 1:59 AM
What?

thefifthspeed
02-14-2010, 2:01 AM
One more time?

oaklander
02-14-2010, 2:05 AM
The racist origin of most gun laws is well-documented and is well-known in the gun rights community.

It certainly does not hurt to spread the word. That being said, "protests" of any kind have never worked well for the gun rights movement.

Due to a hostile press, we get our best work done in the courtroom.

The 1960's civil rights movement was aided greatly by the liberal press. But even that was skewed, as you will note in my other thread: the role that armed self-defense played in the civil rights movement has been swept under the rug by historians and the press.

The intellectual elite simply do not like guns, or gun owners.

the facts are clear, gun control is pure racism, why not put pressure
on law firms that support the anti's? why do we let the Jackson's and Sharpton's
have all the "fun". loud demo's outside of law offices in CA would have an effect.
They would hate being portrayed as racist, yet they truly are.
I know, we have jobs and stuff. ... yet ... it can have a positive affect.
what do you think?

cbn620
02-14-2010, 2:05 AM
It's a clever angle in that some of the first gun control laws in this country's history pertained to disarming freedmen. There are also social issues now to be considered. I think he's saying maybe someone should tell people like Jackson and Sharpton about this. I don't know that it would work, but I will say people rarely talk about the nasty history of race and guns.

thefifthspeed
02-14-2010, 4:23 AM
It's a clever angle in that some of the first gun control laws in this country's history pertained to disarming freedmen.

Interesting stuff, do you have a link where I can read/learn more about this?

oaklander
02-14-2010, 6:17 AM
Many articles online here (http://bit.ly/cWXnVa).

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thegratenate
02-14-2010, 7:20 AM
An education program would be nice, who's got the cash laying around to put up a couple of billboards, run radio or tv ads and print fliers?

Hell why not create a thoroughly articulated group on facebook and see how far and wide it can spread, a little visibility for free is better than no visibility.

dixieD
02-14-2010, 8:37 AM
The racist origin of most gun laws is well-documented and is well-known in the gun rights community.

It certainly does not hurt to spread the word.

Yes, this revelation has started to turn my Lib., Olberman-Madow-loving sister toward understanding the importance of the 2A. I like to bring these facts up when arguing against gun control.

mbuna
02-14-2010, 8:43 AM
Great video/s. Thanks.

FastFinger
02-14-2010, 8:55 AM
Every little bit helps.

This would be probably best spearheaded by minorities, just as "Pink Pistols" (http://pinkpistols.org/index2.html) seems to be gay community based.

I wonder if that black guy who open carried an AR to that political rally has some free time?

Vinz
02-14-2010, 11:47 AM
I don't know its a touchy subject since guns violence seem to be the very high in the minority populated areas. (Trying to be sensitive).

Not sure how that would be taken.
Vinz

bohoki
02-14-2010, 12:50 PM
i cant think of any laws that prevent or cause difficulty for a person of any race to get a firearm

unless they are going to use the "lack of education" as a racial qualifier like taking a test before voting its almost like that true false quiz on the 4473

Maestro Pistolero
02-14-2010, 1:08 PM
i cant think of any laws that prevent or cause difficulty for a person of any race to get a firearmDiscretionary CCW laws allow a disparity of minorities to be denied issue. This is undisputed.

dantodd
02-14-2010, 1:31 PM
I don't know its a touchy subject since guns violence seem to be the very high in the minority populated areas. (Trying to be sensitive).

Not sure how that would be taken.
Vinz

Perhaps it would be seen as it is intended. The law abiding citizens, both minorities and whites should be able to defend themselves without becoming criminals in the process. As you pointed out, they live in a high crime area either by choice or economic situtation.

7x57
02-14-2010, 1:33 PM
First--I actually think it plays into the anti-gun worldview to "let it be spearheaded by minorities." That's the worldview that supports the idea that gun owners must be racist rednecks, and I shall not tolerate it for a second. In court, fine, but only there. Otherwise, it is an odious idea.

Second, it is the left that insists that equality means equality of outcome, not merely opportunity. The *outcome* of discretionary issue is, by *their* standard, manifestly racist as it falls disproportionately on minorities that live in the non-issue urban areas. I have mixed feelings about playing to this unconstitutional idea in any way, but in so far as they've sold the idea in court, we should demand that it apply to the right to self-protection as well.

Third, this isn't just a strategic issue. The left's policies have been a disaster for those they encouraged to be dependants, and we need to do everything we can to get people off the liberal plantation. I am deadly serious about that--it is a matter of basic morality.

A great deal of the damage of slavery and then segregation was to the confidence to take care of one's self, and most of all to men unable to do as they knew was their duty to care for family. Giving the means to be self-reliant is crucial.

Finally, much of the ideology justifying slavery used the image of the terrifying subhuman black savage. The only way to get rid of it is to attack the root, and to do that one must prove that the armed young black man is no more a threat than any other armed man. Nothing but attacking that exact image does anything but attack symptoms.

7x57

JDoe
02-14-2010, 1:41 PM
Jim March seems like a good resource for information on racist gun control laws. See: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-180923-p-2.html

1JimMarch
05-06-2009, 02:51 PM
That paints quite a picture... (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-180923-p-2.html).

I can show you a better one: I compiled county-by-county issuance stats and cross-referenced them against black democgraphics:

http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/CCWDATA2003.html

The conclusion we get is:

There is one permitholder for every 750.70 California residents
There is one white-county permitholder for every 442.59 white-county residents (where blacks are less than the state average population of 6.5%)
There is one black-county permitholder for every 2,608.35 black-county residents (where blacks are more than the state average population of 6.5%)
Your "raw odds" of having a CCW is 6 times higher in a "white county"!!!

I don't think this is an accident. The sheriffs and chiefs are going WAY out of their way to make sure they don't have to issue to "the wrong people" as defined purely by skin color.

...

* Why are cops against CCW? A combination of things - a lot of it is about money, about their monopoly on plainclothed security/bodyguard work paying $30/hr on up (sometimes WAY up). Part of it is psychological: they see their gun as a privilege of the job, or part of their "badge", that would be watered down with widespread carry. And part of it is, they're racists. Sorry but I've spoken with "officers" who have privately admitted it on two occasions. One told me he joined the force knowing about John Lott's work and intending to run for sheriff later (he was already an attorney). Six years on the job later, he told me California can't handle CCW because we're "too diverse" - his exact words. I later found out he had a horrible reputation as an abusive jailer in an area with black-inner-city type issues...

1JimMarch
05-06-2009, 04:22 PM

...OK, pay attention folks because this is important. It goes directly to why we have high crime rates in certain spots.

Jim's Brief History Of The SF Bay Area "Black Ghettos" (Richmond, Pittsburg/Bay Point, West Oakland, Hunter's Point in SF, East Palo Alto, others)

I've studied this for the SF Bay Area and I'm certain similar patterns will hold for SoCal/LA (Compton and the like).

First, a true story:

Circa 1959-60 or so, my dad was fresh off the boat from England and working in a small machine shop (about 50 people total) in San Jose, CA.

A lady comes in to apply for a secretary's job. She was drop-dead gorgeous, and full-blood Hawaiian. My dad was in awe :). He talks to her briefly before the interview, asks her how it went afterwards, she leaves, he's REALLY looking forward to her being around.

About 2/3rds of the current employees went to the boss and told him they'd quit if he hired a “mud person” - their exact words.

My dad was beyond pissed. He'd left England because HE was discriminated against due to his Cockney accent. He had no idea things were that bad here based on skin color and left that place shortly after.

Now, the take-home lesson for us is, if discrimination was that bad at that time and place for Hawaiians, how bad was it for blacks?

Yeah, bad.

So here's what happened to them:

Blacks arrived in the SF Bay Area mainly to work in specific low-end blue collar jobs where they were allowed – dockworkers, low-grade ironworks and other support stuff for the shipping industry was by far the most common. They were allowed their own bedroom communities right next to these spots. All of the “hot spots” I mentioned above except one (and we'll get to that, East Palo Alto is the saddest of all) used to be centers of the shipping business. I mentioned Bay point – that was the housing for Port Chicago, site of the explosion and infamous racism right after:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Chicago_disaster

Bay Point is on county land just west of Pittsburg.

As the shipping industry dried up in the 1950s or so, blacks weren't allowed to work or live elsewhere unless they left the whole area. A lot of the men did that, in the hope of sending for families later. A lot of it didn't work out, families collapsed, welfare laws were set up to block the formation of new families (as in, the moment a guy is around all payments cease), banks wouldn't loan money in those zip codes and they basically rotted away.

The Watts Riots (which yeah, spread as far north as Richmond CA!) of 1966 didn't exactly help, but the problems were well underway by then.

By the time the crack wars hit in the late 1980s, they just exploded in violence.

East Palo Alto is the exception. It was never about shipping. That was the living area for the hordes of black servants in Stanford University and the wealthy homes in Palo Alto.

The first thing that went wrong is that the businesses didn't want to be in “darkietown”, so they got themselves annexed into Menlo Park - leaving EPA without a business tax base.

The second thing that went wrong started in the mid to late '60s. Liberalism without intelligence to back it up made black servants “unfashionable” - so they fired 'em all. With no other incomes to fall back on.

So it fell apart. And because EPA was on the junction of several freeways, it became THE epicenter of the crack wars. One year they managed to hit the #1 murder rate per-capita headquarters of the entire US with 42 dead in a pretty small town. Richmond hit #8 around the same time as I recall (1988 or 1989 I think).

Gun control played a minor role in all this. During the worst periods when all this was starting, whites who packed illegally were often not messed with well into the 1960s and even today you get reports of cops ignoring illegal CCW when the packer is white. Anybody black? Immediately busted, then as now.

And back then, random search and seizure on blacks was absolutely normal, esp. if they strayed outside their own de-facto "reservations". So it wasn't safe for armed criminals out in white areas, and any blacks still working and commuting into white areas were just a prey species the moment they got home.

Criminals who stayed within the black communities and preyed on their own neighbors weren't considered all that big a problem, and universal disarmament gave them ready access to victims nearby. Since most criminals don't have cars, that was handy.

Haven't you wondered why black-on-black violence is so high? This is why: it was culturally ingrained over generations by abusive policies like this.

Put another way: violence rates in South Africa are off-scale insane. They put a stop to apartheid, which was great and needed to happen...but it also lifted the lid on a social pressure cooker that had been held in place WAY too long. They're paying the price now. Well so are we: our pressure cooker wasn't as bad, and we started relieving pressure much earlier, so as bad as it is in our "ghettos" it's not even in the same ballpark as Soweto or the like.

In the states that have gone shall-issue, people in the worst-hit areas tend to pack at a higher rate. When FL reformed in '86, some parts of Miami hit permit issuance rates up near 15%, the highest ever seen in the US, which makes sense given this was the “Miami Vice” coke scene at it's worst.

So the fear is, people in or near the problem areas will “lock and load” at a higher rate, and chase the bad guys out and into Ms. Soccer Mom's back yard in Walnut Creek or Santa Rosa or the like.

Gun control concentrates crime artificially in the areas already highest hit – which for historical reasons is intricately linked to race.

I think the effect is at least partially deliberate, even today.

I also believe that anybody willing and able to pass a background check OF ANY RACE must be allowed to do so.

command_liner
02-14-2010, 2:09 PM
The racist roots of gun control are well known and well documented.

For background, read "The Racist Roots of Gun Control" at
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.racism.html

The racist roots of gun control are well known by the California Assembly.
Back when the current racist gun control laws were passed, various
newspapers explained, in some detail, that the laws were racially motivated.

Just last year when the Assembly was in fiscal emergency lockdown and
could not pass more laws, a detailed apology was passed by the Assembly
as a resolution. The current Assembly apologized for the racist gun
control laws passed by previous assemblies.

You can check my writings on the subject from last summer.

Tis amazing we have a thicket of laws on the book that were drafted
and implemented with racist intent, and even today have a sharp
racial bias. On the other hand, California was strongly racist for most
of its existence. The 14th Amendment did not pass in California
until 1959! As late as 1969, here in Orange County there were
racial discrimination cases being fought in the federal courts. The
bigots lost on the housing, schooling, employment and other legal
fronts.

But we still have on the book racially discriminatory laws -- gun laws.

pitchbaby
02-14-2010, 3:33 PM
WOW, I love that video! Very inspiring to wanting to learn more about this dark (no pun intended) time in our nation's history!

Lyte-
02-14-2010, 4:07 PM
I can't say that gun laws as racist or not racist as this is honestly the first I heard about this issue at all. I did watch the Utube Video that Oaklander posted.

Looks like a show that ran on the history channel or something, I am usually on point about those things so I wonder how I I missed it.

But I can tell you this, I am African American and I am legally Well armed....

Lyte-
02-14-2010, 4:09 PM
Although I will add this, when I fill out those federal forms I have the option of checking either "Asian" or "African American" and always make it a point to select African American, I guess I do it out of spite...

pitchbaby
02-14-2010, 4:14 PM
Although I will add this, when I fill out those federal forms I have the option of checking either "Asian" or "African American" and always make it a point to select African American, I guess I do it out of spite...

I'm a white guy, but I refuse to check those boxes whenever I can get away with it. It shouldn't matter what color my skin is when I buy anything.... let alone firearms. That's just me though.... if you want to share, I'm cool with that too.

7x57
02-14-2010, 4:28 PM
Someday I'm going to start marking "Native American." I am an American by birth, and that is as Native as the government has any right to consider.

7x57

Aleksandr Mravinsky
02-14-2010, 9:24 PM
I read about this recently (from the JPFO website). I was thinking, too, about a recent ruling that said that the legislature could not significantly modify citizen's initiatives. If we got a citizen's initiative going that modified the CA Constitution to have a clause about RKBA, then we'd be able to repeal some of the stricter laws we have in this state.

The main problem with this is educating the people. The people get their information from the media and the movies, neither of which I trust for anything. Education, as thegratenate said in his comment, is expensive. We'd need short and impactful messages to put on the radio and/or billboards (not sure how many networks would air commercials supporting 2A).

However, I believe that if we are able to get the message out to people and get them to see past the media's lies, then we'd be able to achieve more rights in this state. I think that exposing the racist origins of gun control may help turn the general public to our side.

N6ATF
02-14-2010, 9:54 PM
I read about this recently (from the JPFO website). I was thinking, too, about a recent ruling that said that the legislature could not significantly modify citizen's initiatives. If we got a citizen's initiative going that modified the CA Constitution to have a clause about RKBA, then we'd be able to repeal some of the stricter laws we have in this state.

Would like to see the cite. A major problem with any anti-government corruption initiative is that the attorney general can be counted upon to word the ballot summary as if those who support it are the most evil criminals on earth.

dantodd
02-14-2010, 10:01 PM
Would like to see the cite. A major problem with any anti-government corruption initiative is that the attorney general can be counted upon to word the ballot summary as if those who support it are the most evil criminals on earth.

I believe the suit he was referring to was the prop 215 suit that struck down possession limits for medical use.

People v. Kelly (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/documents/S164830.PDF)

IrishPirate
02-14-2010, 10:20 PM
Those "No Guns for Negroes" videos were really interesting. Loved hearing that Mrs. Brady bought her son a "high powered rifle"........

bluthandwerk
02-15-2010, 1:12 AM
Thanks for posting the videos Oaklander. Very well produced and very well argued. I'm a sucker for logical argument. :D

pitchbaby
02-15-2010, 1:16 AM
I read about this recently (from the JPFO website). I was thinking, too, about a recent ruling that said that the legislature could not significantly modify citizen's initiatives. If we got a citizen's initiative going that modified the CA Constitution to have a clause about RKBA, then we'd be able to repeal some of the stricter laws we have in this state.

The main problem with this is educating the people. The people get their information from the media and the movies, neither of which I trust for anything. Education, as thegratenate said in his comment, is expensive. We'd need short and impactful messages to put on the radio and/or billboards (not sure how many networks would air commercials supporting 2A).

However, I believe that if we are able to get the message out to people and get them to see past the media's lies, then we'd be able to achieve more rights in this state. I think that exposing the racist origins of gun control may help turn the general public to our side.

Someone else said what I am sharing here in a different thread... Use images of woman defending themselves from rapists, murderers... etc... nobody wants to deny a defenseless woman protection from a vile predator.

keneva
02-15-2010, 6:28 AM
Great video/s. Thanks.

Yes, Thank you. Where can we find part 2?

OC4ME
02-15-2010, 6:43 AM
the facts are clear, gun control is pure racism, why not put pressure
on law firms that support the anti's? why do we let the Jackson's and Sharpton's
have all the "fun". loud demo's outside of law offices in CA would have an effect.
They would hate being portrayed as racist, yet they truly are.
I know, we have jobs and stuff. ... yet ... it can have a positive affect.
what do you think?

...their response: "Anyone who promotes the carrying of handguns is a racist, they want minorities to be victims of violent gun related crimes. To hold back the progress of the Civil Rights Movement. We have come so far as a country, let us not throw all of our efforts away because a few misguided, right wing gun fanatics want to be able to carry a gun."

...just saying...shall issue is the goal. Throwing the race card never works for those folks clinging to their guns and religion.

GrizzlyGuy
02-15-2010, 7:45 AM
Yes, Thank you. Where can we find part 2?

I linked to parts 1 & 2 in this post (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3743023&postcount=17) from a few weeks ago. Or if you prefer embedded, both parts are here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3805257&postcount=11).

Lyte-
02-15-2010, 9:30 AM
I'm a white guy, but I refuse to check those boxes whenever I can get away with it. It shouldn't matter what color my skin is when I buy anything.... let alone firearms. That's just me though.... if you want to share, I'm cool with that too.

I also avoid marking the box where it is not required... but I don't want to be refused for failing to fill out that form so I just check it.

AJAX22
02-15-2010, 10:00 AM
It's hard to protest against racism when you are not a minority

I would be all for it, but I look like a recruiting poster for the Aryan nations

I'll help out, but I think we need a lot of people to stand in front of the cameras who are not Caucasian

N6ATF
02-15-2010, 10:12 AM
nobody wants to deny a defenseless woman protection from a vile predator.

Nobody, except too many in government.

greasemonkey
02-15-2010, 11:31 AM
I like the paradigm shift, if you will, the image of the caucasion firearm owners standing up and calling the gov out on supporting well documented racist agendas. That kinda stuff could leave the media dumbfounded as they continually try to portray white guys as racist :)

It's hard to protest against racism when you are not a minority

I would be all for it, but I look like a recruiting poster for the Aryan nations

I'll help out, but I think we need a lot of people to stand in front of the cameras who are not Caucasian

Hunt
02-15-2010, 11:53 AM
one word works well- "Mumbai"

Lyte-
02-15-2010, 11:55 AM
It's hard to protest against racism when you are not a minority

I would be all for it, but I look like a recruiting poster for the Aryan nations

I'll help out, but I think we need a lot of people to stand in front of the cameras who are not Caucasian



Actually some of the most effective fighters of racism are white. Just because someone is white doesn't mean they can't join the struggle for equality :p

Merle
02-15-2010, 12:42 PM
Great video/s. Thanks.

+1. Thanks Oaklander!

bohoki
02-15-2010, 5:23 PM
Discretionary CCW laws allow a disparity of minorities to be denied issue. This is undisputed.

that is not a racist law it is an elitist sheriff

please does anybody have a "racist law" example?

gunsmith
02-15-2010, 9:37 PM
it's well documented

command_liner
02-15-2010, 9:53 PM
that is not a racist law it is an elitist sheriff

please does anybody have a "racist law" example?

Perhaps the facts just are not believable because they seem so out of
place with today's thinking. But you cannot have any other facts -- the
facts are the facts. Damn ugly facts, but there are no other facts.

The current California handgun laws were passed with the specific intent
to make it difficult for Mexicans, blacks and Chinese to legally obtain
and carry handguns. The laws had specific racial intent, and the racial
intent was clearly explained to the white public in the newspapers of the
day.

If you really need racist gun laws, just drive down to your local law library
and read the laws that are on the books today.

Read the contemporary accounts regarding gun laws, like the beaut
from Watson v. Stone (1941)
"The statute was never intended to be applied to the white population and in practice has never been so applied."

It really is that ugly.

gunsmith
02-24-2010, 11:26 PM
AG Lockyer said all CA gun law is based on Cruikshank. a flawed racist decision.
Why not get all the anti racist groups out there to protest with the gunnies in fron of the law offices representing the anti's? give them a taste of their own medicine.
Racism is evil, lets confront it.

thegratenate
02-25-2010, 5:44 AM
I doubt that "all" the anti racism folks would join us.

But that doesn't mean that we can't get the word out as best we con on our own, and with the help of those that are willing to join us.