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jonesjustin
02-12-2010, 2:51 PM
Just something I thought I would share, was in Mcdonalds the other day and saw a man with a fixed blade knife on his belt, he gets up to leave and He puts his jacket on which totally concealed his knife. I was finished eating also so I followed him outside and informed him the dangers of covering up a fixed blade.

He was grateful for the info and didnt even think about it when he put his jacket on.

I carry a folder but I wouldn't have known the laws either if it wasnt for reading calguns.

Just thought I would share

Cpl. Haas
02-12-2010, 3:06 PM
IIRC, fixed-blade knives aren't subject to concealed carry regulations unless they're design classifies them as a "Dirk or dagger"... for that, the knife would need to have a blade on both sides, and be designed primarily for stabbing. K-Bars, Bowies, and other fixed-blade knives only have a blade on one side, and are more for cutting and slicing.

If I'm wrong here, someone please correct me.

jonesjustin
02-12-2010, 3:11 PM
It is my understanding any fixed blade but hopefully someone will set us straight.

bulgron
02-12-2010, 3:17 PM
IIRC, fixed-blade knives aren't subject to concealed carry regulations unless they're design classifies them as a "Dirk or dagger"... for that, the knife would need to have a blade on both sides, and be designed primarily for stabbing. K-Bars, Bowies, and other fixed-blade knives only have a blade on one side, and are more for cutting and slicing.

If I'm wrong here, someone please correct me.

I believe that california courts have tended to liberally interpret what is a "dirk or a dagger" such that any fixed blade can get you convicted.

The safest thing to do when carrying a fixed blade is to carry it openly on your belt.

GuyW
02-12-2010, 3:56 PM
IIRC, fixed-blade knives aren't subject to concealed carry regulations unless they're design classifies them as a "Dirk or dagger"... for that, the knife would need to have a blade on both sides, and be designed primarily for stabbing. K-Bars, Bowies, and other fixed-blade knives only have a blade on one side, and are more for cutting and slicing.

If I'm wrong here, someone please correct me.

Yes, you're wrong....don't conceal any fixed blade (or folding blade OPENED)...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=269074
.

Cpl. Haas
02-12-2010, 5:16 PM
As I mentioned above, PC 12020(a)(4) prohibits concealed carry of a "dirk or dagger" it does not expressly prohibit any fixed-blade knife.

Having said that, however, PC 12020(c)(24) further states the following:

"As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position."

The key phrase there is "capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death" which could be argued by most prosecutors to include and fixed-blade knife, regardless of design.

anthonyca
02-12-2010, 5:28 PM
IIRC, fixed-blade knives aren't subject to concealed carry regulations unless they're design classifies them as a "Dirk or dagger"... for that, the knife would need to have a blade on both sides, and be designed primarily for stabbing. K-Bars, Bowies, and other fixed-blade knives only have a blade on one side, and are more for cutting and slicing.

If I'm wrong here, someone please correct me.

The IIRC could get you locked up and a felony on your record thanks to the crazy laws we have. I would only conceal a folder.

Corbin Dallas
02-12-2010, 6:10 PM
PC 12020(c)(24) further states the following:

"As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position."

The key phrase there is "capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death" which could be argued by most prosecutors to include and fixed-blade knife, regardless of design.

Exactly. If you had a bic pen on your person concealed, this could be considered under this law because it could be used as a stabbing weapon to cause great bodily harm.

Cpl. Haas
02-12-2010, 6:38 PM
What's funny is that I was taught in the academy that "dirk or dagger = fixed-blade knife with a blade on both sides" and that K-Bar and Bowie knives were legal to carry concealed.

Moral of the story here I guess is better safe than sorry... while some LEOs might have been taught it's okay to CCW some fixed-blade knives, others might take a harsher view on it.

tiko
02-12-2010, 6:59 PM
What's funny is that I was taught in the academy that "dirk or dagger = fixed-blade knife with a blade on both sides" and that K-Bar and Bowie knives were legal to carry concealed.

Moral of the story here I guess is better safe than sorry... while some LEOs might have been taught it's okay to CCW some fixed-blade knives, others might take a harsher view on it.

My understanding just like you, but we have different trainings on LEOs, so they would understand differently on a same issue.

Cokebottle
02-12-2010, 7:05 PM
IIRC, fixed-blade knives aren't subject to concealed carry regulations unless they're design classifies them as a "Dirk or dagger"... for that, the knife would need to have a blade on both sides, and be designed primarily for stabbing. K-Bars, Bowies, and other fixed-blade knives only have a blade on one side, and are more for cutting and slicing.

If I'm wrong here, someone please correct me.
Incorrect.

Any fixed-blade knife of any length, including a folder when opened, qualifies.
Open carry is fine (as long as the blade is under 3" in LA/LA County, as well as some other areas). Concealed is only legal for folders.

Longer fixed blades are legal for OC so long as they are carried for purposes of legal recreation or employment. Additionally, "safe passage" applies for carrying longer fixed blades through counties/cities that have shorter limits.

CSACANNONEER
02-12-2010, 7:06 PM
I saw something similar last weekend at Denny's in Santa Clarita. I decided not to "educate" the other person since, he only partially covered the handle when he put his Mongols jacket on. I'm not kidding he was one of about half a dozen flying their colors (Bakersfield chapter). It wasn't worth it to me and, I'm pretty sure that he knew the law and it would be uncovered as soon as he got on his bike. I hope no one here faults me for my decission to not get involved.

bigcalidave
02-12-2010, 7:09 PM
The urban legend was that it meant you couldn't have a double sided blade. You just can't conceal any fixed blade knife. Laws here are so stupid. Oh and you can't have a butterfly knife because they look cool when you use them. If you can do so without cutting yourself. ha.

Cokebottle
02-12-2010, 7:10 PM
I saw something similar last weekend at Denny's in Santa Clarita. I decided not to "educate" the other person since, he only partially covered the handle when he put his Mongols jacket on. I'm not kidding he was one of about half a dozen flying their colors (Bakersfield chapter). It wasn't worth it to me and, I'm pretty sure that he knew the law and it would be uncovered as soon as he got on his bike. I hope no one here faults me for my decission to not get involved.
Ya... I wouldn't have touched that one either. They are fully aware of the laws and what will and won't get you locked up.
Notice that very few of them are sporting "getback whips" these days?
The state of Kommiefornia has determined that it is a prohibited weapon.

Mine has been hanging from the wire shelf in my garage for 2 years.

762cavalier
02-12-2010, 7:10 PM
I saw something similar last weekend at Denny's in Santa Clarita. I decided not to "educate" the other person since, he only partially covered the handle when he put his Mongols jacket on. I'm not kidding he was one of about half a dozen flying their colors (Bakersfield chapter). It wasn't worth it to me and, I'm pretty sure that he knew the law and it would be uncovered as soon as he got on his bike. I hope no one here faults me for my decission to not get involved.

You should have jumped in and educated the whole lot of those bikers so they don't get into any trouble.:D:D:p

Friar_Tuck
02-12-2010, 7:12 PM
What the heck is a "getback whips"???

Cokebottle
02-12-2010, 7:12 PM
The urban legend was that it meant you couldn't have a double sided blade. You just can't conceal any fixed blade knife. Laws here are so stupid. Oh and you can't have a butterfly knife because they look cool when you use them. If you can do so without cutting yourself. ha.
Ya... and sadly, there's as much FUD among vendors in the knife world as there is in the gun world.
I browse catalogs all the time and, while I understand them not shipping cane knives and throwing knives/stars, they also refuse to sell double-edged and "push" knives (relatively short blade, double edged, with a "T" handle).

GuyW
02-12-2010, 7:13 PM
Notice that very few of them are sporting "getback whips" these days?
The state of Kommiefornia has determined that it is a prohibited weapon.

Mine has been hanging from the wire shelf in my garage for 2 years.

OK, what are "getback whips"??

.

bigcalidave
02-12-2010, 7:15 PM
Is that what those fancy tassels are called?? lol. How are those a weapon. I wear titanium gauntlets when I rode my bike.

cbn620
02-12-2010, 7:31 PM
IIRC, fixed-blade knives aren't subject to concealed carry regulations unless they're design classifies them as a "Dirk or dagger"... for that, the knife would need to have a blade on both sides, and be designed primarily for stabbing. K-Bars, Bowies, and other fixed-blade knives only have a blade on one side, and are more for cutting and slicing.

If I'm wrong here, someone please correct me.

It's my understanding that "dirk and dagger" covers single side blades. In fact I believe that's what "dirk" means. I don't know of any case law going into this, and the law itself doesn't really give a lot of distinction.

ETA: IIRC, doesn't Texas make a distinction on double side blades?

Cokebottle
02-12-2010, 7:35 PM
What the heck is a "getback whips"???
It's a braided leather whip... anywhere from 24-48" long.
It has a heavy brass quick-release at one end that snaps onto the brake or clutch lever.

The myth is that when a car gets close to you, simply grab the brass fitting, give it a yank to pull it free, let the whip drop through your hand so you are holding it by the narrow end, and use the brass fitting to smash their window or a headlight.

Ya, right... just TRY it sometime. When being crowded with nowhere to go, I'm LUCKY if I get get a boot into their door before they pinch me off against the wall and kill me.
Plus, reattaching it takes two hands... not gonna' do that while on the move, even if you have cruise control.

Now... what DOES it actually do?
Saves lives.

It whips randomly in the wind, same as a flag. They have a heavy monofilament core, so they hang straight back and don't whip around and beat the snot out of the rider(s)... but it's random motion.
Flags, fringe, and other random motions will catch the eye of a driver in their peripheral, where a steady burning, or even regularly flashing light won't.

Motorcycle clubs also use them for identification... the braid is made from the club's colors.
But the BS is promoted by TV shows like "Gangland", and the state has basically classified it as a slungshot or blackjack.

Here's mine hanging from my brake lever:
http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q405/LCR_Peaches/BTK%20Red%20Lodge%202008/DSCN0429.jpg
http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/vulcan/fairing/DSP149.JPG

And one of my friends on the road:
http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/vulcan/apes/CIMG1822.JPG

BigDogatPlay
02-12-2010, 7:46 PM
I saw something similar last weekend at Denny's in Santa Clarita. I decided not to "educate" the other person since, he only partially covered the handle when he put his Mongols jacket on. I'm not kidding he was one of about half a dozen flying their colors (Bakersfield chapter). It wasn't worth it to me and, I'm pretty sure that he knew the law and it would be uncovered as soon as he got on his bike. I hope no one here faults me for my decission to not get involved.

Fault you... no.

I'm pretty impressed that they are feeling safe enough down there to openly fly their colors. In these parts the HA's and Mongols both have gotten pretty subdued. Flying colors lately has led to flying bullets.

Cokebottle
02-12-2010, 7:54 PM
Fault you... no.

I'm pretty impressed that they are feeling safe enough down there to openly fly their colors. In these parts the HA's and Mongols both have gotten pretty subdued. Flying colors lately has led to flying bullets.
The Mongols were prohibited from flying colors last year after their most recent raid.
Feds claimed that they had the right to seize the actual copyright to their patch, including any personal property that displayed it, under the RICO statutes.
They temporarily went to soft cuts that simply referenced "Black and White Nation" or something like that.

Guess the feds lost in court... or the Mongols were at least able to get a TRO against them.

pullnshoot25
02-12-2010, 8:06 PM
IIRC, fixed-blade knives aren't subject to concealed carry regulations unless they're design classifies them as a "Dirk or dagger"... for that, the knife would need to have a blade on both sides, and be designed primarily for stabbing. K-Bars, Bowies, and other fixed-blade knives only have a blade on one side, and are more for cutting and slicing.

If I'm wrong here, someone please correct me.

If the blade has a blunt tip, you may be able to get away with it.

California does not differentiate between double or single-sided knives.

CSACANNONEER
02-12-2010, 8:32 PM
Fault you... no.

I'm pretty impressed that they are feeling safe enough down there to openly fly their colors. In these parts the HA's and Mongols both have gotten pretty subdued. Flying colors lately has led to flying bullets.

I was surprised to see the colors too. They were headed in the general dirrection of LA/Ventura area and, we all know it was the Ventura Mongols and the Ventura HAs that threw the party in Harrah's a few years ago.