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View Full Version : Open Carry Meet in So. Cal.


AdiosTony
02-11-2010, 5:06 PM
Well I think its time that Southern California got in on the Open Carry movement.... anyone down to do a meet somewhere? I live in South West Riverside County and I'm okay with driving to either San Diego or Orange Counties.

Post up your ideas on this,
where do you think would be a good meet place,
and whats days would work for everyone... i was thinking some time in March.

gun toting monkeyboy
02-11-2010, 5:13 PM
Well I think its time that Southern California got in on the Open Carry movement.... anyone down to do a meet somewhere? I live in South West Riverside County and I'm okay with driving to either San Diego or Orange Counties.

Post up your ideas on this,
where do you think would be a good meet place,
and whats days would work for everyone... i was thinking some time in March.

Welcome to the board. Now please do a search on open carry on here. We are currently taking a break from UOC as an organization until after Macdonald vs. Chicago. As for So Cal "getting in" on the OC movement, where have you been?:rolleyes:

AdiosTony
02-11-2010, 5:17 PM
Not here... lol.
Sorry I will admit I did not do a whole lot of research on the deal.
thanks for the info!

gun toting monkeyboy
02-11-2010, 5:21 PM
Pullnshoot25 has his own OC website and blog. They are good places to start. Our last organized UOC event was a scavenger hunt last year. But we are currently holding off because of the pending court cases. Once those go through, I am sure that the organized events will start up once again.

AdiosTony
02-11-2010, 5:21 PM
link to said site?
thanks

n2k
02-11-2010, 5:24 PM
Welcome to the board. Now please do a search on open carry on here. We are currently taking a break from UOC as an organization until after Macdonald vs. Chicago. As for So Cal "getting in" on the OC movement, where have you been?:rolleyes:

+1
Start here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=267046

Also, I wouldn't want to be proned out any time soon....:eek:

AdiosTony
02-11-2010, 5:24 PM
thanks guys!

Roadrunner
02-11-2010, 5:25 PM
The obvious place would be the Isla Morada restaurant at the Bass Pro Shop in Rancho Cucamonga. The downside would be that you couldn't cross the street and go to Victoria Gardens, because they have "NO FIREARMS" signs posted everywhere.

demnogis
02-11-2010, 5:57 PM
AdiosTony,
Please check on here (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/) for information on Open Carry in SoCal.

command_liner
02-11-2010, 8:00 PM
OC in the OC?

I have warned my police chief a few times that one of the most obvious
places in the whole state to exercise OC is in the middle of Mile Square
Park, right here in Fountain Valley.

The park has easy access to the freeway, has lots of people in it all the
time and is well known. Since it is a mile square, anybody that is 1000'
from the boundary roads is not going to be popped for GFSZ.

The OCSD and the FVPD share patrol duty for the park. Both are way
too anti-gun and are in a state of denial with regards to UOC. The
local newspaper is highly libertarian, and might just send along a few
reporters to cover the issue in person, given enough warning.

A well-executed UOC event might cause bad reaction by both departments
to be covered live and in high def. The resulting lawsuits might cause
the OC Sheriff's race to head in the right direction.

For bonus points, have former OC Supervisor, now state rep. Chris Norby
be one of the UOC guys. For triple bonus score, have Dana R., the local
federal rep be another UOC guy. Both are on our side.

demnogis
02-11-2010, 8:26 PM
Command Liner, we recently held an OC meet in Huntington Beach with positive LEO interaction. I would say they were borderline in support but did not oppose it at all. :) Quite a few of us called in and gave positive comments to the sergeant who was there.

I agree, if we get a few of the "right" public servants in support there with us it could do HUGE amounts of good for us. But you have to wonder, would that be a third rail for their political careers?

Spiggy
02-11-2010, 9:13 PM
I've done UOC down Huntington Beach before... Granted, I was in uniform and following Patton in a sherman...


But I did it anyways :D

pullnshoot25
02-11-2010, 9:16 PM
Well I think its time that Southern California got in on the Open Carry movement.... anyone down to do a meet somewhere? I live in South West Riverside County and I'm okay with driving to either San Diego or Orange Counties.

Post up your ideas on this,
where do you think would be a good meet place,
and whats days would work for everyone... i was thinking some time in March.

I am just going to say "WTF?" and then be THAT guy and post this, oh newcomer.

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r369/calgunfun2/cover.jpg

Welcome aboard!

pullnshoot25
02-11-2010, 9:19 PM
I've done UOC down Huntington Beach before... Granted, I was in uniform and following Patton in a sherman...


But I did it anyways :D

I love you :)

pullnshoot25
02-11-2010, 9:20 PM
Also, Adiostony, my website is in my sig line.

AdiosTony
02-11-2010, 10:29 PM
Also, Adiostony, my website is in my sig line.

Yeah im new... never heard of OC until this site and I got a lil over excited and posted before doing some research :kest:.
I appreciate all the info guys! Now got a lot of reading to do!

wkd4496
02-12-2010, 12:04 AM
OC in the OC?

I have warned my police chief a few times that one of the most obvious
places in the whole state to exercise OC is in the middle of Mile Square
Park, right here in Fountain Valley.

The park has easy access to the freeway, has lots of people in it all the
time and is well known. Since it is a mile square, anybody that is 1000'
from the boundary roads is not going to be popped for GFSZ.

The OCSD and the FVPD share patrol duty for the park. Both are way
too anti-gun and are in a state of denial with regards to UOC. The
local newspaper is highly libertarian, and might just send along a few
reporters to cover the issue in person, given enough warning.

A well-executed UOC event might cause bad reaction by both departments
to be covered live and in high def. The resulting lawsuits might cause
the OC Sheriff's race to head in the right direction.

For bonus points, have former OC Supervisor, now state rep. Chris Norby
be one of the UOC guys. For triple bonus score, have Dana R., the local
federal rep be another UOC guy. Both are on our side.

That would be amazing. command_liner can you pm me or post here about how fountain valley is in regards to RKBA? I've always wanted to know how they work since I work at Mile Square Park :p (Rec center/Sports park)

Spiggy
02-12-2010, 6:57 AM
I love you :)

random proof, HB 7/4/08

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/Spiggys_pics/US/HB_Indp_parade08/weirdos.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/Spiggys_pics/US/HB_Indp_parade08/jeango.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/Spiggys_pics/US/HB_Indp_parade08/th_thedrive.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v614/Spiggys_pics/US/HB_Indp_parade08/?action=view&current=thedrive.flv)

that's me in the backround, with my carbine

k3nnex
02-12-2010, 12:17 PM
what is going on in that picture? Are you guys national guard or something?

mej16489
02-12-2010, 3:00 PM
Well I think its time that Southern California got in on the Open Carry movement.... anyone down to do a meet somewhere? I live in South West Riverside County and I'm okay with driving to either San Diego or Orange Counties.

Post up your ideas on this,
where do you think would be a good meet place,
and whats days would work for everyone... i was thinking some time in March.


"Got in on"??? SoCal was in on the ground floor of organised group UOC in CA. Generally they have been abiding by the CGF request to stand down on OC at this time.

pullnshoot25
02-12-2010, 6:12 PM
what is going on in that picture? Are you guys national guard or something?

Re-enactors!

command_liner
02-12-2010, 7:20 PM
That would be amazing. command_liner can you pm me or post here about how fountain valley is in regards to RKBA? I've always wanted to know how they work since I work at Mile Square Park :p (Rec center/Sports park)

FV is, in general, paranoid and ignorant about UOC, and CC. I do not make
this statement lightly, but in the decade that I have been working on the
issue, it has become clear the FVCC would rather assign the FVFD to
go down to the nearest elementary school and use firefighting tools
to chop up a dozen children than they would tell the CLEO to go shall
issue.

In the past 30 months or so I have sent 5 detailed, polite letters to the
FVCC and FVPD explaining just how wrong their position is. The letters
are public record, and contain detailed citations of US law, California law
and detailed predictions for how the law will evolve.

Additionally I have interviewed a majority of the FVCC twice on the issue
and spoken in depth the the FVPD CLEO about the issues.

On the City Council we have 2 or 3 outright hopolophobes. Irrational,
50-ish, ignorant people that believe guns are evil and the Heller
decision does not apply to the citizens of California. This is also the
position of the city attorney. There is one good voice on the council.

The policy of the council is supplied to the CLEO. He implements it.

I have asked the FVCC to explain the rational behind the current policy,
and asked for any documents that support the adoption or continuation
of the policy. Only the chief has responded. I have his letter next to
me.

In general, the city is ready for a really good slap off the head.

Twice I have nearly become a FV City Councilor. Depending on the
exact resolution of McDonald, Nordyke, Pena and Heller II cases, I
might run again for the purpose of bringing to light the very dangerous
position of the City. The work I have done makes it so the City
cannot claim to be unaware of the legal and monetary danger they
are in.

One good lawsuit/settlement would probably guarantee my election.

So I am not a disinterested party. For that reason I ask that nobody
tell me in advance of any UOC events in Fountain Valley. Sure, post
in a public forum, but please no private messages.

cmth
02-12-2010, 8:17 PM
The obvious place would be the Isla Morada restaurant at the Bass Pro Shop in Rancho Cucamonga. The downside would be that you couldn't cross the street and go to Victoria Gardens, because they have "NO FIREARMS" signs posted everywhere.

Victoria Gardens has no such signs. I looked everywhere and could find none. Even if they did, signage carries no weight of law. Worst thing that could happen is they ask you to leave. SBSO contracts with Rancho Cucamonga, and they are well versed on open carry and are generally cool about it. Very low risk of getting "proned out".

loather
02-12-2010, 9:11 PM
Even if they did, signage carries no weight of law. Worst thing that could happen is they ask you to leave.

That's not actually true. If you knowingly entered a business establishment in violation of posted policy, you're guilty of trespassing and the establishment may press charges against you. So while you may be technically correct in that signage doesn't carry the weight of law, you're still trespassing.

dirtnap
02-12-2010, 10:09 PM
That's not actually true. If you knowingly entered a business establishment in violation of posted policy, you're guilty of trespassing and the establishment may press charges against you. So while you may be technically correct in that signage doesn't carry the weight of law, you're still trespassing.

Not until they ask you to leave first IIRC...

wkd4496
02-12-2010, 11:12 PM
FV is, in general, paranoid and ignorant about UOC, and CC. I do not make
this statement lightly, but in the decade that I have been working on the
issue, it has become clear the FVCC would rather assign the FVFD to
go down to the nearest elementary school and use firefighting tools
to chop up a dozen children than they would tell the CLEO to go shall
issue.

In the past 30 months or so I have sent 5 detailed, polite letters to the
FVCC and FVPD explaining just how wrong their position is. The letters
are public record, and contain detailed citations of US law, California law
and detailed predictions for how the law will evolve.

Additionally I have interviewed a majority of the FVCC twice on the issue
and spoken in depth the the FVPD CLEO about the issues.

On the City Council we have 2 or 3 outright hopolophobes. Irrational,
50-ish, ignorant people that believe guns are evil and the Heller
decision does not apply to the citizens of California. This is also the
position of the city attorney. There is one good voice on the council.

The policy of the council is supplied to the CLEO. He implements it.

I have asked the FVCC to explain the rational behind the current policy,
and asked for any documents that support the adoption or continuation
of the policy. Only the chief has responded. I have his letter next to
me.

In general, the city is ready for a really good slap off the head.

Twice I have nearly become a FV City Councilor. Depending on the
exact resolution of McDonald, Nordyke, Pena and Heller II cases, I
might run again for the purpose of bringing to light the very dangerous
position of the City. The work I have done makes it so the City
cannot claim to be unaware of the legal and monetary danger they
are in.

One good lawsuit/settlement would probably guarantee my election.

So I am not a disinterested party. For that reason I ask that nobody
tell me in advance of any UOC events in Fountain Valley. Sure, post
in a public forum, but please no private messages.

Thank you for this valuable information.

loather
02-12-2010, 11:17 PM
Not until they ask you to leave first IIRC...

The act of posting the sign, effectively directing you not to enter covers that. Thus, they can call the cops and have them deal with you without ever confronting you themselves.

Spiggy
02-12-2010, 11:31 PM
what is going on in that picture? Are you guys national guard or something?

Living historians representing the 34th Infantry Division, a part of the Minnesota National Guard during WW2, famed for being the first to land in the European Theatre, and for housing the 442nd Regimental Combat Team. That's where I come in, some of the members are representing the 442ndRCT and 100th Battalion.

we were escorting the REAL HEROES, surviving members of the unit who fought bravely through Europe, despite the political disadvantages (IE, racism) from the US government. Most Decorated unit of WW2.

It was a neat day and neat experience for myself. Someone ran out in the middle of the road and cleared away a giant line of road apples whilst barefoot. Just so we wouldn't march through it. :eek:

pullnshoot25
02-12-2010, 11:34 PM
The act of posting the sign, effectively directing you not to enter covers that. Thus, they can call the cops and have them deal with you without ever confronting you themselves.

Signs, however, hold no weight of law. The request has to be verbal.

Alaric
02-13-2010, 12:29 AM
That's not actually true. If you knowingly entered a business establishment in violation of posted policy, you're guilty of trespassing and the establishment may press charges against you. So while you may be technically correct in that signage doesn't carry the weight of law, you're still trespassing.

Not until they ask you to leave first IIRC...

The act of posting the sign, effectively directing you not to enter covers that. Thus, they can call the cops and have them deal with you without ever confronting you themselves.

Signs, however, hold no weight of law. The request has to be verbal.



http://www.santamonicapd.org/Information/trespass.htm (http://www.santamonicapd.org/Information/trespass.htm)
Trespassing Laws
CA PENAL CODE SECTION 602(j) [purpose to injure]
prohibits entry on to any land whether open to the public or not for the purpose of injuring any property or property rights or with the intention of interfering, obstructing, or injuring any lawful business or occupation carried on by the owner, owner's agent, or person in lawful possession.
CA PENAL CODE SECTION 602(l) [occupation]
prohibits the entry and occupation of any real property whether open to the public or not without the consent of the owner, owner's agent, or person in lawful possession. Under this section, the property must be occupied for some period of time.
CA PENAL CODE SECTION 602(n) [refusal to leave private property ]
provides that a person who refuses or fails to leave land not open to the general public when requested to do so by the owner, owner's agent, or a peace officer at the request of the owner or owner's agent may be arrested.
CA PENAL CODE SECTION 602.5 [unauthorized entry of property]
prohibits entry into any non-commercial dwelling house, apartment, or other such place without the permission of the owner, owner's agent, or person in lawful possession. This section is limited to structures which are used for dwelling purposes.
CA PENAL CODE SECTION 602.1 [obstructing or intimidating business operators or customers]
provides that any person who intentionally interferes with any lawful business or occupation carried on by the owner or owner's agent of a business open to the public by obstructing or intimidating the business operations or customers and who refuses to leave the premises is guilty of a misdemeanor.
Some Commonly Asked Questions
Do I need to confront the trespassers myself?
Unless you have authorized the police to make requests to leave (and arrest trespassers) on your behalf, you will need to confront the person and ask them to leave. If the person does not comply with your request then you should notify the Police Department.
How do I authorize the police to make requests to leave and to arrest trespassers on my behalf?
You will need to sign a Trespass Arrest Authorization letter which is available from the Police Department. This letter authorizes a peace officer to make an arrest for trespassing. It is important to note that the letter is valid for 90 days from the date given.
In addition, the Trespass Authorization letter says that you will cooperate and prosecute any violators arrested at the named location. The follow through of prosecution after arrest is extremely important.
How do I report a trespasser to the Police?
If there is no immediate danger to you or your property - phone (310) 458-8491, which is the non-emergency reporting phone line. If there is immediate danger to you or your property - phone 9-1-1. You will reach a police dispatcher who will take the information and dispatch a police officer. Please be as specific as possible when giving a description of the person.
Will I need to go to court to testify?
Generally the police officer making the arrest will testify in court. However, you as the property owner/agent may be needed in court to testify.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/602.html

IANAL, but PC 602 doesn't seem to cover the issue of a sign posted in a place of business. It seems like the request does need to be verbal.

However, PC602.1 does include this tasty little tidbit:
(a) Any person who intentionally interferes with any lawful
business or occupation carried on by the owner or agent of a business
establishment open to the public, by obstructing or intimidating
those attempting to carry on business, or their customers, and who
refuses to leave the premises of the business establishment after
being requested to leave by the owner or the owner's agent, or by a
peace officer acting at the request of the owner or owner's agent, is
guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail
for up to 90 days, or by a fine of up to four hundred dollars
($400), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(b) Any person who intentionally interferes with any lawful
business carried on by the employees of a public agency open to the
public, by obstructing or intimidating those attempting to carry on
business, or those persons there to transact business with the public
agency, and who refuses to leave the premises of the public agency
after being requested to leave by the office manager or a supervisor
of the public agency, or by a peace officer acting at the request of
the office manager or a supervisor of the public agency, is guilty of
a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for up to
90 days, or by a fine of up to four hundred dollars ($400), or by
both that imprisonment and fine.
(c) This section shall not apply to any of the following persons:

(1) Any person engaged in lawful labor union activities that are
permitted to be carried out on the property by state or federal law.

(2) Any person on the premises who is engaging in activities
protected by the California Constitution or the United States
Constitution.
(d) Nothing in this section shall be deemed to supersede the
application of any other law.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/602.1.html

So, maybe after we get incorporation, all those "no guns" signs won't mean squat, as carrying a gun will be a protected activity with a specific exemption under the state trespassing code.

loather
02-13-2010, 9:35 AM
[snip]

IANAL, but PC 602 doesn't seem to cover the issue of a sign posted in a place of business. It seems like the request does need to be verbal.

[snip]

So, maybe after we get incorporation, all those "no guns" signs won't mean squat, as carrying a gun will be a protected activity with a specific exemption under the state trespassing code.

Allow me to insert foot into mouth. Notwithstanding that, you're my new favorite person for finding that little tidbit codified in law. :) As the activity is protected by the United States Constitution now, those signs already mean nothing ... Interesting indeed!

Alaric
02-13-2010, 8:54 PM
Allow me to insert foot into mouth. Notwithstanding that, you're my new favorite person for finding that little tidbit codified in law. :) As the activity is protected by the United States Constitution now, those signs already mean nothing ... Interesting indeed!

Thanks Loather.

I would feel better if someone with a JD or perhaps Librarian could confirm my findings. As stated before, IANAL.

gun toting monkeyboy
02-13-2010, 9:27 PM
You're anal? Are you sure you want to be declaring that on a public forum? ;)

Alaric
02-13-2010, 9:30 PM
You're anal? Are you sure you want to be declaring that on a public forum? ;)

You know what "Monkeyboy" means in certain areas of San Francisco right? If so, I'm not sure what the issue is... :eek: :p :D

dantodd
02-14-2010, 12:22 AM
However, PC602.1 does include this tasty little tidbit:

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/602.1.html

So, maybe after we get incorporation, all those "no guns" signs won't mean squat, as carrying a gun will be a protected activity with a specific exemption under the state trespassing code.

Assuming that the legislature doesn't change the law, which is what I personally think will happen. This would probably only protect CCW in California. Based on reading Heller and Sykes there is no reason to assume that both CCW and OC would be protected. It appears that the courts will likely rule that the state can choose between OC and CCW. Sykes is specifically arguing that the state has elected CCW by its current statutes.

After incorporation and Sykes, it does seem that the sign would have no impact on people who are CCWing but that people OCing would not enjoy the same exemption.