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Chris M
02-11-2010, 4:04 PM
Before jumping down my throat, yes, I searched Calguns and the FAQ, but was unable to find the answer I was looking for. Maybe my search skills aren't what they should be.

Am I breaking the law by placing a 9" filet knife in my unlocked fishing tackle box?

It is my understanding that fixed-blade knifes of a certain length can not be concealed without a permit. Please enlighten me.

dantodd
02-11-2010, 4:05 PM
I believe it is concealed on the person, unlike the firearms laws. I will look it up for you. I'm not up on knife laws.

It's right there in the gun code....

12020(a)(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.

pitchbaby
02-11-2010, 4:12 PM
I've known MANY people who go to work at fisheries everyday with long fixed blades in their bag/box and never heard any wind of them ever having a problem. That being the case, I would have to concur with dantodd that it is concealed on your person that is the problem.

Chris M
02-11-2010, 4:27 PM
I've known MANY people who go to work at fisheries everyday with long fixed blades in their bag/box and never heard any wind of them ever having a problem. That being the case, I would have to concur with dantodd that it is concealed on your person that is the problem.

I believe it is concealed on the person, unlike the firearms laws. I will look it up for you. I'm not up on knife laws.

It's right there in the gun code....

12020(a)(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.

I've read that before...but wasn't 100% clear on the definition of "upon his or her person". If I'm carrying the tackle box, it's 'upon my person', right? If my tackle 'box' is a backpack, it's definitely 'upon my person'.

I've been carrying concealed fillet knives my entire life (I've been fishing since I was 4, and was cleaning my own fish when I was around 8 or 9). I've never run into any problems with it - but that doesn't mean I'll continue to avoid problems.

Maybe I'm being a little :TFH:, but I just like to clearly know what the laws are.

pitchbaby
02-11-2010, 4:29 PM
I guess you could put a lock on the box if you live in a place where the LEO's are twitchy about knives.

My375hp302
02-11-2010, 4:33 PM
And don't forget the most important thing "May I search your tackle box / backpack?" "No, you may not."

IGOTDIRT4U
02-11-2010, 4:35 PM
Maybe I'm being a little , but I just like to clearly know what the laws are.


If you want to clearly know what the laws are, you'll have to move out of California!

As to the backpack question, it's how it's presented. If all that is in your backpack are items normally found in a fishing tackle box, then that is what you tell any officer that YOU LET search your bag.

Chris M
02-11-2010, 4:37 PM
I guess you could put a lock on the box if you live in a place where the LEO's are twitchy about knives.

All my tackle boxes are soft-sided, zippered containers. I'll just stick the knife into one of the outer pockets and make sure part of it's visible. Easy enough.

I think I might even have a folding 7" fillet knife around somewhere...

7x57
02-11-2010, 4:40 PM
All my tackle boxes are soft-sided, zippered containers. I'll just stick the knife into one of the outer pockets and make sure part of it's visible. Easy enough.


Worst of all possible worlds. Partly concealed == concealed for guns, and the betting seems to be that the courts would apply the same standard for knives. But by having it partly exposed, you've given law enforcement reason to go looking.

Doesn't the knife law exempt tools for whatever you're doing? I'd think the fillet knife would fall under that anyway.

7x57

Chris M
02-11-2010, 4:41 PM
If you want to clearly know what the laws are, you'll have to move out of California!

As to the backpack question, it's how it's presented. If all that is in your backpack are items normally found in a fishing tackle box, then that is what you tell any officer that YOU LET search your bag.

The only time I've ever been searched was a year ago at the Agricultural Checkpoint, coming into CA on I40. The lady spotted a package of fruit in the back seat, and proceeded to search the vehicle. Hopefully that's the last, and only time.

pitchbaby
02-11-2010, 4:43 PM
A state going into financial collapse.... and we pay for these AG checks.... I won't even begin to go off on this one here.... but man.... every time I see one..... it's like watching money just go right down the drain!

B Strong
02-11-2010, 7:01 PM
Before jumping down my throat, yes, I searched Calguns and the FAQ, but was unable to find the answer I was looking for. Maybe my search skills aren't what they should be.

Am I breaking the law by placing a 9" filet knife in my unlocked fishing tackle box?

It is my understanding that fixed-blade knifes of a certain length can not be concealed without a permit. Please enlighten me.


No, unless the situation involves you bringing your tackle box into a "sensitive" area...

SVT-40
02-11-2010, 7:42 PM
A "filet" knife is not a stabbing instrument.
Concealed upon the person. Is just that "upon the person". A knife in a tackle box in a backpack CARRIED by a person is not "concealed" upon the person. It carried by the person.


Here is the Penal Codes definition of a Dirk or Dagger:

As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife
or other instrument with or without a hand guard that is capable of
ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury
or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not
prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use
as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death
only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.

Because the filet knife is contained in a box, in a backpack. It is not available for "ready use" and is thus not a "dirk or dagger".

"Concealed upon the person" is in ones clothing which is worn in a fashion to hide or conceal.

Just remember to keep your rod concealed!! :rofl2:

glockman19
02-11-2010, 8:27 PM
Am I breaking the law by placing a 9" filet knife in my unlocked fishing tackle box?

NO.

SteveH
02-12-2010, 7:52 AM
SVT-40 has the right answer. Without the Capable of Ready Use element of the crime there is no violation.

A sheathed knife zipped up in a backpack on your back is clearly not capable of ready use.

ap3572001
02-12-2010, 8:37 AM
Before jumping down my throat, yes, I searched Calguns and the FAQ, but was unable to find the answer I was looking for. Maybe my search skills aren't what they should be.

Am I breaking the law by placing a 9" filet knife in my unlocked fishing tackle box?

It is my understanding that fixed-blade knifes of a certain length can not be concealed without a permit. Please enlighten me.

Over the years as LEO, I have never paid much attention to the type of knives that are in the fishing tackle boxes. Most LEO's I know , are on the same page. I hope....

GuyW
02-12-2010, 8:38 AM
A "filet" knife is not a stabbing instrument.

Here is the Penal Codes definition of a Dirk or Dagger:

As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife
or other instrument with or without a hand guard that is capable of
ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury
or death.

I appreciate your input.

I don't think it is as cut-n-dried as that tho.

Particularly, if the object in question can inflict great bodily injury or death via a (somewhat) sharp point or edge, thrust out against a person, its arguably a dirk or dagger....

JMHO
.

dantodd
02-12-2010, 8:41 AM
A "filet" knife is not a stabbing instrument.
Concealed upon the person. Is just that "upon the person". A knife in a tackle box in a backpack CARRIED by a person is not "concealed" upon the person. It carried by the person.

While I agree with most of what you posted a fillet knife most certainly is a stabbing instrument. If a screwdriver can qualify then so too can a fillet knife.

Chris M
02-12-2010, 8:48 AM
Over the years as LEO, I have never paid much attention to the type of knives that are in the fishing tackle boxes. Most LEO's I know , are on the same page. I hope....

I've pretty much assumed that...but if someone was having a bad day, and wanted to take it out on me, I just want to make sure I'm doing everything legal. Nothing wrong with wanting to understand & obey the law, right?

GrizzlyGuy
02-12-2010, 8:49 AM
There is a good summary of CA state knife laws here (http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/knifelaw.html).

Although you are OK per SVT-40's point that your filet knife is not a dirk or dagger since it is not "capable of ready use" in your scenario, 626.10 PC (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/626.10.html) would still restrict you from walking through school grounds on your way to/from fishing. That's because it applies to knives beyond those considered to be dirks or daggers ("...any dirk, dagger, ice pick, knife having a blade longer than 2 1/2 inches...).

There is no state preemption of local laws with regard to knives, so you'd need to check your local codes and ordinances to see if there were any additional restrictions in those.

doc1buc
02-12-2010, 8:51 AM
Jeez after reading these penal codes it really illustrates how "gray" the leave things so they can get. I can have my bowie knife on me, if it isn't "concealed". Jeez

Chris M
02-12-2010, 8:55 AM
There is a good summary of CA state knife laws here (http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/knifelaw.html).

Although you are OK per SVT-40's point that your filet knife is not a dirk or dagger since it is not "capable of ready use" in your scenario, 626.10 PC (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/626.10.html) would still restrict you from walking through school grounds on your way to/from fishing. That's because it applies to knives beyond those considered to be dirks or daggers ("...any dirk, dagger, ice pick, knife having a blade longer than 2 1/2 inches...).

There is no state preemption of local laws with regard to knives, so you'd need to check your local codes and ordinances to see if there were any additional restrictions in those.

Well that sucks. I live right across the street from an elementary school.

[edit] When I wrote that, I was thinking about the 1000' GFSZ. I just read your first link. For knives it applies only to "upon school grounds".

Chris M
02-12-2010, 9:05 AM
This discussion reminds me of a book that I heard about on the Daily Show..."Three Felonies a Day (http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594032556/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265994089&sr=1-1)".

From what I understand, it basically states that because of the laws in the US, the average american commits 3 felonies a day without even knowing it.

I'll have to pick it up one of these days.

ap3572001
02-12-2010, 9:24 AM
I've pretty much assumed that...but if someone was having a bad day, and wanted to take it out on me, I just want to make sure I'm doing everything legal. Nothing wrong with wanting to understand & obey the law, right?

I understad You ...... Still, even if I was having a REALLY DAY. I can't see myself bothering a fisherman with a knife .......

audiophil2
02-12-2010, 10:30 AM
As long as your not "loaded" you'll be fine.

MasterYong
02-12-2010, 10:33 AM
There was another thread a few months ago that seemed to conclusively state that having a fixed blade knife concealed anywhere in a vehicle, unless in a locked container, was illegal. The most ridiculous scenario was if you were going camping, and in an unlocked box you had some kitchen knives to prepare dinner Said activity was deemed illegal...

What's the difference between that and having one in the tackle box??? I know I was shocked about the concealed blade thing. I had to move a hunting knife I kept in my car as a result and replace it with a folder...

Was the other thread FUD? There was cited PC and everything. Was very convincing. Can't seem to find it now (hard to find specific threads on a topic that come up every other week LOL).

bodger
02-12-2010, 10:40 AM
I'm a contractor and at any given time I have so many sharp instruments "concealed" I could probably get locked up for life.

Scratch awls, butt chisels, screwdrivers, hatchets, and other pointy things. Right in my tool bag and on the seat of my truck.
I'll be damned if I'll take a bust for transporting my gear around town so I can make a living.
I suppose they could hang a charge on me for having burglary tools as well. Prybars and such.

Hell of a note when we have to worry about having a filet knife in with some fishing gear. But this IS California.

Chris M
02-12-2010, 10:57 AM
Hell of a note when we have to worry about having a filet knife in with some fishing gear. But this IS California.

Not worried about it. Just curious to see if I'm, in fact, breaking the law by doing something that just about every fisherman does every time he/she goes fishing. It just proves more and more how ridiculous the laws are. Just take a look at this other thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=253749) I started a while back.

bodger
02-12-2010, 11:23 AM
Not worried about it. Just curious to see if I'm, in fact, breaking the law by doing something that just about every fisherman does every time he/she goes fishing. It just proves more and more how ridiculous the laws are. Just take a look at this other thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=253749) I started a while back.


I guess it all comes down to how reasonable a LEO is about such issues. But in this state, I don't like the idea of my freedom depending on that.

bigcalidave
02-12-2010, 12:25 PM
Don't forget when you buy your kitchen knives or steak knife set at the store and they GASP put it into a bag for you to carry!!!

Dubster
02-12-2010, 12:30 PM
When you bought it that knife was probably in a box and you probably took it home in the box. I see no difference and highly doubt there is a problem.

Dub

1_Grendel
02-12-2010, 2:20 PM
Fish filet knife is a non-issue while in a tackle box as is when I have taken a duct knife into schools, courts, police stations, fed buildings, airports, etc…

What is a duct knife? it is a 2 edged knife, a tool, and when “cancelled” in a tool bag it is still a tool.

Anyone can buy a duct knife and as a baseball bat needs a glove a duct knife needs a tool bag. This issue is easly summed up with the word intent. :cheers2:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc213/jimm2005/ductknfe2.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc213/jimm2005/ductknfe1.jpg

SVT-40
02-14-2010, 1:26 AM
Originally Posted by SVT-40
A "filet" knife is not a stabbing instrument.

Here is the Penal Codes definition of a Dirk or Dagger:

"As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife
or other instrument with or without a hand guard that is capable of
ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury
or death."



I appreciate your input.

I don't think it is as cut-n-dried as that tho.

Particularly, if the object in question can inflict great bodily injury or death via a (somewhat) sharp point or edge, thrust out against a person, its arguably a dirk or dagger....

JMHO
.

The quote above is a direct copy from the Calif. Penal Code. So in the scenario posted by the O/P it would be this simple.

The whole issue is how a knife is carried. It must be capable of "ready use".

A knife in a tackle box in a backpack is not available for ready use, thus could not be considered a "dirk or Dagger"

GuyW
02-14-2010, 7:59 AM
The whole issue is how a knife is carried. It must be capable of "ready use".

A knife in a tackle box in a backpack is not available for ready use, thus could not be considered a "dirk or Dagger"

Fair point.

The difference between us on this issue is probably that I trust LE and prosecutors about as far as I can throw them...I refer you to Theseus case as merely one example...

.