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Farva
02-11-2010, 8:39 AM
About telling friends(or just new people in general that might be avid shooters outside the OLL scene) about OLL legalities and other CA laws is convincing them to stay legal just because it is legal and the right thing to do.

When I started getting into OLL's, I'd go shooting with friends and they would see the AR and just about wet their pants and ask how is this is possibly legal etc. After explaining to them all the ways to stay legal with your OLL, and the first thing out of the majority of their mouths is, "What keeps you from just doing this..." and then proceed to advocate breaking the law because 'nobody will know' because we are 'out in the middle of no where'. And not so much about the detachable magazines(though it has come up), but more so of the use of high cap mags in fixed rifles. In fact I have a friend who has a keltec, and I refuse to bring my AR hicaps to use in his keltec or any featureless rifle that might be around from the high amount of people that usually show because when we go shooting they will always bug me to use my Hi caps in a fixed AR. I have no problem telling them they cant use them, but Ive just gotten to the point Im tiredd of saying no and explaining why its illegal that I dont even bother bringing the hicaps anymore.

Or explaining the entire concept of a rebuild kit to them, I do bring my mini hicaps when I come and I have explained to them the entire legality about rebuild kits and how you had to have the mags before 2000 and all that good stuff. And I get the same, "Well what keeps me from doing that and just building a new hicap, nobody will know. I can just keep them disassembled during travel and put them together out here.'

In a way I feel slightly responsible, because I got most of them into the OLL scene, and now some of them are building or buying OLLs or seriously looking into it. Im getting to the point where I dont even want to go shooting with some of them anymore. Thankfully none of them have ever brought anything illegal to the shoots, and I never allow it to happen if I see something illegal about to go down, but it just gets tiring trying to convince people to stay legal when its so easy to break the rules in the minds of the stupid.

I mean other than saying the obvious, "its illegal and you will go to jail if caught doing it", what else can I say? Ive tried turning them to calguns to read up and get advice but I dont know if any of them have done more than glance at the site. Im at the point where I just want to say screw it im done shooting with you guys. They are all good close friends, just stupid people who think because you are in the middle of nowhere the law magically disappears.

It turns me off trying to spread the word of OLL's to anyone else. It is scary to think about, so many people are now getting into OLL's and it seems more and more people dont understand why its so important to keep it legal(even though to me its so damn obvious, not wanting to go to jail should be reason enough), even if you are just plinking in the desert.

bootcamp
02-11-2010, 8:49 AM
What is this a rant? Venting?

If they are your friends, you keep on keepin on..... you got them into it, help keep them legal. I did the same with my friends. The keyword is felony. When I tell them I cherish my clean record and being able to come home to my family by staying legal, they start to listen. As soon as they hear felony convictions, they start to realize it's not worth it.

GrizzlyGuy
02-11-2010, 8:55 AM
Maybe you should point them at the threads below (and there are probably many other similar ones) so that they can see that bad things CAN happen, even if shooting 'out in the middle of nowhere':

Had a run in with BLM Rangers (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=205394)

hollister ranger takes my mossberg pump (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=261437)

OLL build seized by BLM! Please help! (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=102924)

OLL Returned To Me By BLM Ranger (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=167865)

Farva
02-11-2010, 8:55 AM
There was a question in there, somewhat of a rant if you want to call it that I guess. But its in general as well, Ive gone to some ranges with family or myself and seen people with PG stocks on Minis that prolly arent RAWs or hicaped fixed rifles, just kinda depressing because most of us strive so hard to stay legal.

loather
02-11-2010, 9:02 AM
Before you go shooting next time, call up Ranger Friendly and let them know what time you'll be out there, and that you would like his assistance in convincing your friends that it's not a good idea to think about breaking the law. If rangers can show up at any time, that makes the specious "in the middle of nowhere" argument moot.

Additionally, stating that it's a *felony* and explaining the possible penalties for getting caught can go a long way to assisting with compliance. Do this before the ranger shows up and you hit them with the one-two punch. :)

"Yes, it's illegal, yes there are penalties, and yes, you can get caught."

good luck.

BKinzey
02-11-2010, 9:25 AM
It becomes a personal choice, where do you draw the line as to what they do in affecting what you do. If someone is a good friend I'll warn them but once I feel they know what they are doing could have dire consequences I figure it's up to them. Then I think about how what they are doing could directly affect me.

I certainly wouldn't loan out hi-caps to somebody if they wanted to put them in an OLL. Should somebody show up at best you could loose the mag and at worse be entangled in the stupidity of the other guy:mad:

I can't really offer a solution to you but I can say I have been faced with similar problems at times.

Edit:

No, I don't think it's a good idea to contact "Ranger Friendly." You may find he is not too friendly and if your friends find out that probably won't go too well either.

SJgunguy24
02-11-2010, 9:50 AM
People have freewill and the choice to do the right thing or not. If they choose to break the law then they need to be fully aware that manufacturing an AW is a very serious crime. That crime comes with some pretty harsh peneltys also.
I was at a fast food place last week and a 13 year old ish kid asked for a cup for water. He got ice and water like he should have. Well his buddy walks in and grabs the cup and fills it with soda and says "Ef them they don't know."
I walked over to the kids before they got out the door and told them, "next time you want water and they tell you to pound sand, this is why." It only takes the actions of a few people to destroy the credibility of an entire community. This is why we follow the law untill we can get it changed.

MudCamper
02-11-2010, 10:07 AM
I think this is a BIG problem that is far more prevalent than most here realize. I think that there are at least thousands of people out there who are knowingly configuring their ARs illegally. I also think there are many people out there that are lazy and stupid and are accidentally configuring their ARs illegally.

boxbro
02-11-2010, 10:47 AM
Maybe you should point them at the threads below (and there are probably many other similar ones) so that they can see that bad things CAN happen, even if shooting 'out in the middle of nowhere':

Had a run in with BLM Rangers (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=205394)

hollister ranger takes my mossberg pump (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=261437)

OLL build seized by BLM! Please help! (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=102924)

OLL Returned To Me By BLM Ranger (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=167865)

Remove the "s" from the end of http in the second link. :D

Dragunov
02-11-2010, 11:04 AM
I refuse to go shooting with anyone with an illegally configured rifle. If they get busted, I will also come under scrutiny just for being there.

putput
02-11-2010, 12:47 PM
I gotta go the other way on this and suggest that if your friends are dating "hotties" and you have any chance of hooking up with them while your friends are in jail, then I'd just let it go and see what happens. You could probably even warn them ahead of time if they are just that interested in doing it.

Farva
02-11-2010, 1:42 PM
As you have described these people, I sure as hell wouldn't want to go shooting with them.

Surely you know some people who aren't complete reprobates you could go shooting with?

Its not that they are completely moronic, they are normal everyday people. They just seem to think that what nobody knows doesnt hurt anyone. Its an annoying train of thought when it comes to firearms legalities and being around it. Luckily for them, Ive been the grinch and kept them all from doing stupid crap.

What scares me is when they start doing their own OLL's or start going over the border and getting highcaps or using rebuild kits illegally in their firearms is what bugs me. I guess I cant really control their actions, people will do as they please. Its just frustrating.

Farva
02-11-2010, 1:47 PM
I gotta go the other way on this and suggest that if your friends are dating "hotties" and you have any chance of hooking up with them while your friends are in jail, then I'd just let it go and see what happens. You could probably even warn them ahead of time if they are just that interested in doing it.

Well some of them do have some hotties, but im set in that department haha. Good plan though.