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beeker
02-09-2010, 11:38 PM
Greetings,

First off, I’ll apologize up front, since I’m sure the answer to my question resides in some logical spot on this site, but my search-jitsu skills seem to be severely lacking this morning.

I am an out of state FFL and am considering changing my “do not ship to California” policy to “will ship to California” policy. What I would like to find is a step by step checklist on what is the required process to ship a firearm to a CA FFL and which firearms are allowed.

I’ve spoken to many other out of state FFLs, and one of the reasons I, and others, previously have not shipped to CA is the regulations/registration requirements were not easily found, often contradictory and it started to be quite a bit of work for the relatively small percentage of overall business that would be shipped there let alone the constant fear of making sure I wasn’t going to be breaking the CA laws – it just didn’t make sense for business trying to follow the specialized CA laws.

Now, I’m re-evaluating those thoughts, thinking of it not in the sense of being a pure business decision, but rather a pro-2A decision as well. I still want to make sure the level of work required to do business with the citizens/FFLs of CA falls in line with the monetary return, but I also think that the citizen/FFLs of CA can use all the help they can get from the gun owners and dealers around the rest of the country.

It does still come down to the fact that I’m responsible for knowing the laws/regulation for everywhere I ship to and thus, if I can find a link/site that consistently outlines and updates what I need to know and do to legally ship the types of firearms to CA that are allowed, then that would be extremely helpful.

I searched but did not find. Can someone direct me on target?

Sorry for the long winded post.

Thanks!

wildhawker
02-09-2010, 11:48 PM
Hello, and welcome!

Thanks for supporting our community of gun owners, and we look forward to having another out of state FFL with the courage to do the right thing.

The first thing you'll want to make sure of is that you're not sending 'assault weapons' and high-cap magazines (>10rds) to vendors without the proper CA permits.

Also, check out this CA DOJ FAQ on the CFLC program: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcfaqs.php

If you have any specific questions as to particular types/makes/models of firearms, please do post them and we'll be sure to get you the appropriate answers.

Again, welcome to Calguns and thanks for supporting us!

bigcalidave
02-10-2010, 12:56 AM
Welcome to CalGuns!!! We have lots of members who buy lots of guns! Perfect customers for you, right? Every out of state seller who is willing to do business in CA benefits our fight. Thank You!

TRICKSTER
02-10-2010, 1:15 AM
Go here. It will answer your questions and link you to the proper forms. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcoverview.php

C.Strong
02-10-2010, 2:25 AM
Thank you, just considering this is a lot more than a lot of other FFL's are willing to do.

Best of luck.

tenpercentfirearms
02-10-2010, 5:57 AM
We also have an FFL forum here on the boards. You might get some answers here from people unexperienced in the business whereas you will get good answers 95% of the time over in the other forum.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=168

There are two reasons to sell guns to California and you already have them figured out.

#1: Business! Our money is just as good as anyone else's. In fact, California is a huge market if you open yourself up to it.

#2: Want to piss off a liberal? Send a gun into California. They make these regulations to encourage you to write off the freedom loving people of this state. So many "pro-second amendment" supporters out there say screw California and in doing so put a smile across the Bradyites faces. You can do quite the opposite.

Put a big disclaimer right across your website or when people call. "We support the rights of all citizens to keep and bear arms and we firmly stand behind the soldiers in occupied territories like California. We will do business with California because they need guns more than any one else." Start counting the cash!

So there are really only two ways you can go wrong.

#1 Sending assault weapons to someone without an assault weapon permit.

#2 Sending large capacity magazines to someone without a large capacity magazine permit.

Most FFLs do not have an assault weapon permit. But in the case of AR15s, if you just separate the upper and the lower, then it is no longer an assault weapon. Ship them in the same box, still not an assault weapon. When it gets to the CA dealer, we can make them CA compliant before putting them back together.

Most FFLs have a large capacity magazine permit. Again, take the large capacity magazine apart (aka just take the floor plate off) and it is no longer a large capacity magazine.

Additionally, CA citizens can only DROS (do a background check) on approved handguns for sale. However, that is on the buyer to make sure they can take possession of the handgun. I as a CA FFL can accept those handguns in and it is no crime, I just can't DROS them if they aren't on the list. If you just make a disclaimer that the consumer must know if their gun is on the list and any returns are subject to a 15% restocking fee, that will take care of itself.

The last thing you will have to do as was mentioned was enroll in the CFLC system. It will take you five minutes if you are a slow learner and maybe three minutes to enroll if you are smarter. Generating the approval numbers after that will take about two minutes of your time per order (note order, not gun). You cannot get in trouble for not generating a CFLC approval number. However, I will commit a misdemeanor if I accept a shipment without one. So if you don't get me one, I will be eventually sending your shipment back.

Every major wholesaler is complying with this system with no problems. The system was designed so the little guys on gunbroker that are out of state selling guns for cheap prices would write off California, forcing the consumer to have fewer choices, one of those being the large retail chains with their large prices.

If you have any other questions, you can also e-mail me at guns@tenpercentfirearms.com. Again, you have two great reasons to do business here. We can help you keep everything straight and keep you going.

paul0660
02-10-2010, 6:10 AM
don't forget the safe handgun list: http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

10% is right, the FFL forum is the place to go.

Nodda Duma
02-10-2010, 6:15 AM
Thank you for your support. What's your business name and/or gunbroker handle so that we can give you some business?

bodger
02-10-2010, 6:48 AM
Excellent. Thank you, your support is appreciated.

And yes, please let us know how we can contact you and do business with you.

Welcome to CalGuns.

beeker
02-10-2010, 7:31 AM
Excellent info folks, and thanks for the links as well. I'll check out the FFL forum as well and get squared away.

My GB handle is dagnbrut. I'm not a high volume Auctioneer, but usually auction off a half dozen or so items once a month.

Thanks again for the info, I'll put it to good use!

quiet-wyatt
02-10-2010, 11:00 AM
beeker,

Single actions are exempt from the "Approved List" -
It's in the last sentence of the paragraph on the Roster webpage - "certain single-action revolvers". According to the code, basically over 99% of single-actions fall under "certain"...

Penal Code 12133
Go the this document on the CA DOJ website, Page 40. It's the sixth bullet down:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

The requirements for handguns to pass safety and functionality tests and to be listed in the Department of Justice’s official list of handguns certified as safe for sale in California do not apply to transactions involving the following:

• Single-action revolvers with at least a five-cartridge capacity, a barrel length of not less than three inches, and either:
(a) were originally manufactured prior to 1900 and are curios or relics, as defined in Section 178.11
of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations; or
(b) have an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least seven and one-halfinches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled. (Penal Code § 12133.)


So basically any standard size single-action: Colt, Ruger, Uberti, etc...

chrisw
02-10-2010, 11:10 AM
:clap: THANK YOU! The "no sales to Ca" people frustrate the heck out of me. I can't tell you how many times I've found a gun to buy....but then I see the dreaded "no sales to Ca"....:mad:

Syntax Error
02-10-2010, 11:47 AM
:clap: THANK YOU! The "no sales to Ca" people frustrate the heck out of me. I can't tell you how many times I've found a gun to buy....but then I see the dreaded "no sales to Ca"....:mad:

+1...they can do without our money or the large California market for sales if they're going to be like that. :mad:

RedFord150
02-10-2010, 3:55 PM
Good luck. We are always glad to welcome a cooperative dealer ;-).
As previously suggested, look at the FFL forum on Calguns for some help with your questions.
Entreprise Arms and Gunrunners Tactical are both on the Eastern side of Los Angeles County. They may end up on the receiving end of your transactions and are both popular with Calgunners.