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lumwilliam
02-08-2010, 8:09 PM
I've read a lot on these pages about the need for us to get up off our butts and do something to defend our 2A rights. I decided to do something locally when I met San Diego Sheriff's candidate Jay Lasuer and found out that he's a huge CCW proponent & endorsed by El Cajon Gun Exchange, American Shooting Center, Gun Owners of CA, etc. He's a former Assemblyman and La Mesa mayor, and when he asked me if I would host a fund raising event for him, all I could say was "sure".

This is the first time I'm doing something like this, and I'm asking my fellow San Diego CalGunners to show up in support. I would be honored to have any and all of you at my home and am hoping that this is continuing in a proud trend of activism among gun owners.

wildhawker
02-08-2010, 8:14 PM
JLS has significant backstory, as do most of his named endorsers. If there were a good candidate for a DemonSheep commerical spot, he would be it.

Wild Squid
02-09-2010, 9:30 AM
Sounds like a good idea to me.

ZombieTactics
02-09-2010, 10:04 AM
Is there a website where I can donate directly? I am not in the SD area, but like to do what I can, when I can, wherever I can.

Skullster
02-09-2010, 10:23 AM
I'll be out on the open road otherwise I would attend.

SenorJefe
02-09-2010, 10:29 AM
Awesome deal, lumwilliam!! I'll be trying to get my wife to go with me.

This may be a dumb question, but do the proceeds from the donations go to La Suer's campaign?

lumwilliam
02-09-2010, 11:37 AM
Is there a website where I can donate directly? I am not in the SD area, but like to do what I can, when I can, wherever I can.
http://www.sheriffjay.com/

Hey Zombie, that would be great!!

lumwilliam
02-09-2010, 11:39 AM
Awesome deal, lumwilliam!! I'll be trying to get my wife to go with me.

This may be a dumb question, but do the proceeds from the donations go to La Suer's campaign?

Yes, SenorJefe, the event is being put on by Jay's campaign. They are handling everything & I just volunteered my house and am doing my best to get the word out!

bwiese
02-09-2010, 12:05 PM
It can indeed be argued that anyone is better than babykiller Gore.

But Jay LaSeur has some significant backstory in CA gunrights during his tenure. A key issue was that he kept pushing his AB2218, which was a posture piece trying to repeal the AW ban. Unfortunately - while likely unpassable given the stated goal - it also had grave risks of creating constructive possession for folks with hicap mags (and/or a mix of AWs and non-AWs that shared parts in common).

He was warned about this by competent NRA staff & attorneys. Jay LaSeur was so incensed by this - he wanted this 'puff piece' he tried to get CA NRA folks fired by trying to whip up drama in Fairfax, VA (see quote below).

In 2006, there was a mailorder ammo bill (AB2714, Albert Torrico's, if I recall correctly) that was not dissimilar to today's AB962. While it passed both houses, Governor Schwarzenegger did not sign it due to intense opposition (many Calgunners and NRA MC folks teamed up on a full-court press - we had a great 2006, including getting AB2728, along with the run up to killing the attempted DOJ redefinition of detachable magazine.)

Jay LaSeur underestimated we could get the Gov to veto the bill and was trying to figure out a way to act like the bill was useful/not harmful to save face (likely due to his association with non-NRA "gun-rights" people).

In a meeting with various players, Jay LaSeur said, "Let's put some lipstock on this pig..." to try and sell the bill and act like it wasn't bad - and "It's just like wine!" (referring to controls on mailorder wine sales). While I am unsure if the meeting was taped, people I trust very much heard these statements, and could be deposed.

So we have a person who wanted to run up the flag with a very problematic gun bill (that was directly aimed/could create legal issues for me given my various firearms and magazines!) - and yet he wanted to pre-surrender before the battle was over to safe face on a bad ammo bill (which we killed at that time).

The threatened lawsuit (that went nowhere) by Kathy Lynch of CAFR against both Calguns/CGF and myself, shut down by attorneys Jason Davis (for Calguns/CGF) and Don Kilmer (representing me) may well have been driven in part by JLS. It's kinda interesting that the lawyers threatening Calguns and myself were in San Diego, not Sacramento - their choice of "used condo lawyers" [both contexts] was kinda interesting too ;-)

Jay LaSeur created enough ruckus about his puff-piece bill in Fairfax and later on Calguns that NRA Board Member Joel Friedman had to write this:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2059778&postcount=294 (http://%3cfont%20size=%221%22%3ehttp//www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2059778&postcount=294%3C/font%3E)




INTRODUCTION:

For those of you who do not know me, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Joel Friedman. I have been very active in the RKBA movement for over 21 years. I currently serve the firearms community as the longest running NRA Members' Council President of the second oldest Members' Council. I am also a board member of the NRA, and a board member of the CRPA.

I do not usually post to any of the forums as those of us getting older have a harder time with technology. In the past, the few times I have felt the need to post something I have asked some the senior members of Calguns to please post for me using my name.

{snip...}

STATEMENT OF FACTS

AB2218: This legislation was introduced as a spot bill and was later amended into a vehicle that would exchange the removal of named firearms from the list of Assault Weapons (leaving only firearms with certain features as Assault Weapons) in exchange for the banning of all magazines of a capacity greater than ten rounds. It would also create a "constructive possession" of an Assault Weapon for the first time in California law.

This bill was presented to NRA Leadership (at all levels) beginning with ILA during the 2004 NRA Annual Meetings in Pittsburgh, PA. The decision was unanimous that it must be opposed as written. Ed Worley was instructed to inform Mr. LaSuer's staff of NRA's position on AB2218. He immediately complied with instructions he was given and faxed a letter of explanation to Mr. LaSuer's staff.

Mr. LaSuer was upset with NRA's refusal to support his bill and used his connection to apply pressure to NRA and NRA-ILA Executive Offices. A meeting regarding this issue was held in Pittsburgh. In attendance were Wayne LaPierre and members of his staff, NRA President Sandy Froman, NRA Board Members, and others. Attending via telephone were Chris Cox and David Lehman. During this time, Mr. LaSuer was contacted. Upon reaching Mr. LaSuer, he claimed that the version of the bill examined by NRA was not the final version and amendments had been made.

A decision was made wherein Ed would personally meet with and make a peace gesture to Mr. LaSuer. Mr. Cox also determined it would be a good idea as a goodwill gesture to send a letter apologizing for any misunderstanding might have occurred.


CONCLUSION

Mr. Cox nor his Deputy Director Mr. Lehman at no time ever was in favor of a magazine and/or any ammunition feeding device ban and/or restriction and they said so at the time that they were against the bill as presented.

Mr. Cox and Mr. Lehman are as hard core "pro-gun owners rights" as anyone anywhere. I know this because I have personally tested their resolve and they have over and over again shown this resolve and passed all the tests with flying colors. Mr. Cox wrote a letter to a sitting legislator (after the bill had been stopped and/or pulled) in an attempt to avoid creating an enemy and in the hope that NRA and the firearms community could count on his vote when needed. As Mr. Cox and Mr. Lehman are in charge of the only successful, national, as well as worldwide firearms owners rights lobbying and legislative organization in the world, it is their job to win, not bolster their egos, not put some of us under the bus in an attempt to help another some of us. They are truly believers in Benjamin Franklin's famous words, "We must all hang together or we will surely be hung separately".

As I am not in charge of the organization and am only one small voice, I would like to ask one simple question. Is creating felons for the mere possession of a magazine with a capacity larger than 10 rounds an acceptable concession to allow a firearm to be taken off the AW list? Better question, is creating felons for the mere possession of a magazine with a capacity larger than 10 rounds an acceptable concession to eliminate the State of California's class 3 requirement? The answer to both is the same. A true believer in the RKBA must say NO!!.


BOTTOM LINE

Why would a pro-gun rights activist sitting in the legislature who was voted into office partly due to his pro-gun beliefs ever write a bill that uses the words "BAN" and anything to do with firearms, feeding devices, ammunition and/or its components no matter what his long range strategy of, "we can amend it", "it will look different", etc might be. There are things that can not be done, period. This was one of them.

The rest is now up to each of you to decide.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and thank you for allowing me to enter this forum.

Sincerely, Joel

SenorJefe
02-09-2010, 1:55 PM
Oh boy....I hope this doesn't evolve like it did last time

nicki
02-09-2010, 2:03 PM
Obviously gun issues are very important to everyone on the board, and the people in San Diego county should be involved in some way with the candidates.

The issue is Gore is unacceptable, but the question remains, who is the viable alternative?

Last I heard there were 5 people running for sheriff, with that many people, no one will win 50 percent plus in Jun, so most likely we will see a November runoff.

Nicki

IrishPirate
02-09-2010, 2:09 PM
If you were in NorCal my wife and I would be there in a heartbeat. Helping a Pro 2A cause and getting to sample wine.......that's us all the way!!! good luck, hope it goes well!!!

wildhawker
02-09-2010, 2:14 PM
I'm amused that JLS is somehow a "pro 2A cause".

510dat
02-09-2010, 2:24 PM
The issue is Gore is unacceptable, but the question remains, who is the viable alternative?
Nicki

anybody?

Alaric
02-09-2010, 2:37 PM
JLS has been the topic of epic and hotly debated threads here at CGN. While he has a debatable legislative track record, he remains our best candidate for SD County Sheriff and our best hope for a workable "shall-issue" CCW policy locally.

The "right people" on this board want to punish JLS at the expense of local San Diego citizens who want to defend themselves and their families by way of CCW. While I have tremendous respect for those people in the work they do at the state level, in this case they should back off and allow us to make our own decisions about who to elect to a LOCAL office.

To the OP, best of luck to you in your fund raising efforts.

Grakken
02-09-2010, 5:39 PM
JLS needs to rally the CGN base in San Diego. After reading comments from others, i'm not convinced he is the guy. However, this was on his website

http://www.sheriffjay.org/articles/carry_permits.html

It's alarming he would sponsor such a bill and then let what appears to be ego get the better of him when it backfires. However that is when he was a legislator so im not sure what to think...

I think anyone would be better than the current since the current doesnt hand them out unless you are spechul.

bwiese
02-09-2010, 6:05 PM
Sykes has a far greater chance of succeding in a reasonable timeframe than JLS has ability/cash to win.

Alaric
02-09-2010, 6:29 PM
Sykes has a far greater chance of succeding in a reasonable timeframe than JLS has ability/cash to win.

And if Sykes doesn't win? We should abandon all hope of getting a CCW-friendly Sheriff elected? It's unreasonable to put all eggs in the Sykes basket.

Even if Sykes does win, it doesn't mean instant change. Local policies may lag to change, more unfriendly CCW legislation will likely follow, more dragging court cases will follow, and in the meantime we are left defenseless and frustrated.

Even more to the point, La Suer is a far better candidate than Gore, the butcher of Ruby Ridge and CCW-unfriendly interim-sheriff. If CGF isn't going to endorse a candidate based on his track record, it should at least hold off on attacking a candidate who isn't interim-Sheriff Gore.

wildhawker
02-09-2010, 6:44 PM
And if Sykes doesn't win? We should abandon all hope of getting a CCW-friendly Sheriff elected? It's unreasonable to put all eggs in the Sykes basket.

Even if Sykes does win, it doesn't mean instant change. Local policies may lag to change, more unfriendly CCW legislation will likely follow, more dragging court cases will follow, and in the meantime we are left defenseless and frustrated.

Even more to the point, La Suer is a far better candidate than Gore, the butcher of Ruby Ridge and CCW-unfriendly interim-sheriff. If CGF isn't going to endorse a candidate based on his track record, it should at least hold off on attacking a candidate who isn't interim-Sheriff Gore.

More to the point, see the recent Peruta case denial of SD's motion to dismiss. SD will have SI CCW soon. Vote for the best administrator/manager, not for CCW.

Alaric
02-09-2010, 6:47 PM
More to the point, see the recent Peruta case denial of SD's motion to dismiss. SD will have SI CCW soon. Vote for the best administrator/manager, not for CCW.

The same Peruta that you and CGF attack and dismiss with one hand you prop up with the other when it serves you to attack JLS? Seriously?

C'mon Brandon, you can do better than that.

bwiese
02-09-2010, 7:03 PM
The same Peruta that you and CGF attack and dismiss with one hand you prop up with the other when it serves you to attack JLS? Seriously?

At least Peruta happened to win - largely due to CGF writing his case - it was "borrowed". Yes, he went sideways and misrepresented himself to us and had "color". But there is luckily a ball to run with if he doesn't screw it up and listens.

wildhawker
02-09-2010, 7:20 PM
The same Peruta that you and CGF attack and dismiss with one hand you prop up with the other when it serves you to attack JLS? Seriously?

C'mon Brandon, you can do better than that.

If you knew as much as you think you do, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I expect it to be the same with JLS.

Alaric
02-09-2010, 7:24 PM
At least Peruta happened to win - largely due to CGF writing his case - it was "borrowed". Yes, he went sideways and misrepresented himself to us and had "color". But there is luckily a ball to run with if he doesn't screw it up and listens.

I love the support Peruta now seems is basking in from you folks. And to be fair, he did have a slightly shady background and he did obviously co-opt a CGF idea... but WOW. Is mention of JLS all it takes to assemble the troops in support of someone who you previously dismissed?

The true power of JLS is revealed.

Guys, all I'm asking here is to let JLS go and run his campaign without the attacks. I know you don't like him, but he IS our BEST local candidate for Sheriff. I haven't seen a single opponent advocated. You've made your points against him. Can we let him run in peace now and let San Diego gunnies make up their minds without more attacks? Please?

Alaric
02-09-2010, 7:40 PM
If you knew as much as you think you do, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I expect it to be the same with JLS.

That's unfair Brandon. You're not being specific, you're just making baseless accusations.

What should I know that you think I don't?

Hunt
02-09-2010, 8:05 PM
Gore authorized viki weaver shot

wildhawker
02-09-2010, 8:32 PM
That's unfair Brandon. You're not being specific, you're just making baseless accusations.

What should I know that you think I don't?

It is unfair, but unfortunately (or not, in certain respects) much in this realm isn't public. Trust me when I say that I am not implying (and do not believe) you to be anything other than intelligent; my sentiments were more a commentary on the fact that even when good probabilities exist for some to have a more comprehensive understanding of the issue(s) they are often summarily ignored (I'm mainly thinking of Bill here). The lack of trust is sometimes frustrating.

Alaric
02-09-2010, 8:38 PM
Yep - and he pled the 5th and refused to testify in support of his guys. He let his subordinates take the fall.

Also in his past is not doing his part in connecting the dots to know that the 9/11 terrorists were training in San Diego while he was running the FBI field office. More recently as sheriff, he had LRAD acoustic weapons set up at tea parties in case the people "clinging to their guns and religion" got out of hand. Yep, we've been saddled with a real winner here.

That's what we should expect from Bill Gore.

JLS has come out as an emphatic critic of the LRAD devices deployed by Gore, in defense of our rights to gather at Tea Party and Town Hall events. http://sheriffjay.org/blog/archives/187

Alaric
02-09-2010, 8:50 PM
It is unfair, but unfortunately (or not, in certain respects) much in this realm isn't public. Trust me when I say that I am not implying (and do not believe) you to be anything other than intelligent; my sentiments were more a commentary on the fact that even when good probabilities exist for some to have a more comprehensive understanding of the issue(s) they are often summarily ignored (I'm mainly thinking of Bill here). The lack of trust is sometimes frustrating.

I assume you're talking about Bill Wiese and not Bill Gore here. :eek:

If there's anything else we should know about JLS please don't hesitate to PM either myself or lumwilliam (the OP here), so we can reconsider our position.

I know you're also intelligent, hardworking and totally dedicated to our cause Brandon. I respect your opinion as well as Bill's and give it good measure. But I nonetheless urge yourself, Bill and Gene (who hasn't commented in this thread on JLS yet) to let us SD gunnies run our natural course and try to elect our candidate without interference. He's the guy most of us locally support, and attacking him only serves to divide our cause and create rancor. I owe you all one if you can do this for us.

wildhawker
02-09-2010, 8:58 PM
I can't speak for Gene or Bill but I myself will comply with your request; you won't owe anything. You're right in that it's time to move on and let the race take its course. All the best to my San Diegan friends.

Alaric
02-09-2010, 9:06 PM
I can't speak for Gene or Bill but I myself will comply with your request; you won't owe anything. You're right in that it's time to move on and let the race take its course. All the best to my San Diegan friends.

Thank you Brandon. And I am in your debt, despite your assurances, when the time comes.

Grakken
02-09-2010, 9:15 PM
So do i need the secret decoder ring to get some possibly good intel as to why one candidate is better than the other...or not?

PM me if you want.

Hunt
02-09-2010, 9:27 PM
I was at the tea party sheriff debate jls no bs +5 jls all the way go jay

Mulay El Raisuli
02-10-2010, 5:41 AM
More to the point, see the recent Peruta case denial of SD's motion to dismiss. SD will have SI CCW soon. Vote for the best administrator/manager, not for CCW.


Fair enough. So, is there anything you can publicly say as to whom that might be? I.E., if the 'gunnies choice' boils down to JLS or Duffy, is there anything that can be said for one or the other?


The Raisuli

SenorJefe
02-10-2010, 5:56 AM
The issue is Gore is unacceptable, but the question remains, who is the viable alternative?



Try this Examiner piece (http://www.examiner.com/x-22950-San-Diego-Law-Enforcement-Examiner~y2009m9d13-Gun-rights-advocates-demand-to-be-heard-at-San-Diego-Sheriff-Debate) done by Adam Thomas, a former cop and SWAT officer. It's nearly the only other helpful piece of information I've seen on this issue.

:detective:

EDIT: quick breakdown for those who hate clicking


QUESTION: If elected Sheriff in 2010, would you consider individual self protection as a sufficient justification for the issue of concealed weapon permits for the citizens of San Diego, including these law abiding citizens sitting in front of you today?”


The Candidates’ answers:

Bruce Ruff: "Yes". The Crowd was a bit shocked with this simple answer, so the applause was delayed for a few seconds.

James Duffy: “The answer is yes. There is no other reason to get a CCW permit than to protect yourself. Right now we make you make up excuses about gold bullion or something like that to protect. The really serious answer is you’re getting that permit to protect yourself, your family, your property.” A hearty round of applause followed, with a loud “Yes!” coming from one of the CCW individuals behind me.

Bill Gore: “First of all, I’m a strong believer in the 2nd Amendment myself; I learned to shoot a pistol when I was 14 years old…”at this point he is interrupted by an angry yell from the man with the empty pistol holster:”Yes or No!” Mr. Amato came to Mr. Gore’s defense: “Let him answer, let him answer”. Gore continues: “…and what everybody ignores here is the State law that sheriffs are compelled to comply with. This is a Shall Not Issue State, as opposed to a Shall Issue state. That means that you shall not issue a CCW permit unless there is cause.” Yells from the crowd interrupts him once again: “Self Defense!” Gore continues unfazed, “Other states say that you will issue unless there is cause not to. I’ve talked to the NRA about this; I said we have a business requirement now, or a professional requirement or a personal safety standard that qualifies you for a CCW. I said give me another standard beside “I want one” and I’ll be willing to examine it. I’m compelled to follow State law…” At this point, Sheriff Ruff’s last words are drowned out by angry yells from the crowd, including a reference to Ruby Ridge.

Jay LaSuer: "Short answer, Yes. Follow-up to that answer is this: the Sheriff determines what good cause is, and self-protection is good cause”. The crowd cheered and clapped heartily.

Mr. Amato then stated: "Let me ask Jay LaSuer and Bill Gore is welcome to jump in; you heard Bill Gore say that this is a Shall Not Issue State…” LaSuer replies, “No, this is a May Issue State. It’s not a Shall Issue; it is not a Shall Not Issue.” Bill Gore chimes in “I have (???) my lawyers definitely and I’m surprised that Jay spent six years in the State legislature and didn’t try and change the law.” Smiling, James Duffy interjects by invitation from Mr. Amato: “Three lawyers can’t get it right. Read the penal code section, 12025, “May Issue, the sheriff may issue a permit””. A round of applause follows. Mr. Ruff then chimes in during the applause to re-iterate that the Sheriff is the one who makes the decision, which results in additional cheers from the crowd.

Doug L
02-10-2010, 6:33 AM
Let's face it, there'll be a very limited choise of candidates on the ballot for San Diego sheriff---and one of them will be elected.

If Jay La Suer is "the lesser of the available evils," then I say let's support him. In this sense, we can take a page out of the looney-lefty playbook, and use incrementalism as our tactic, also.

Rick Roberts (KFMB AM 760) says La Suer is endorsed by Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

Crazed_SS
02-10-2010, 7:25 AM
Let's face it, there'll be a very limited choise of candidates on the ballot for San Diego sheriff---and one of them will be elected.

If Jay La Suer is "the lesser of the available evils," then I say let's support him. In this sense, we can take a page out of the looney-lefty playbook, and use incrementalism as our tactic, also.


My buddy is a SD Deputy and he's supporting Duffy.
http://www.duffyforsheriff.com/duffy/press_comments/jim_duffy_candidate_for_san_diego_county_sheriff_l eads_in_the_polls/

I think he's promised CCWs for all liek Lasuer has. Realistically, Gore is probably gonna win though.



Rick Roberts (KFMB AM 760) says La Suer is endorsed by Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

Uggh.. Do not want.

Glock22Fan
02-10-2010, 9:10 AM
With regard to Peruta, may I observe that winning the dismissal of a motion to dismiss is a long way from winning the court case. Too many people here think it means a foregone conclusion in Peruta's favor. I disagree completely.

IGOTDIRT4U
02-10-2010, 9:17 AM
With regard to Peruta, may I observe that winning the dismissal of a motion to dismiss is a long way from winning the court case. Too many people here think it means a foregone conclusion in Peruta's favor. I disagree completely.

Glad someone finally said it. It's a victory on the road to a most likely ultimate loss.

Untamed1972
02-10-2010, 10:00 AM
Funny that CFG jumps on the fundraising bandwagon for an out of state sheriff to buy new equipment to issue CA residents out of state CCWs. (ETA: in reality who are going to be the primary benefiters of the new OR equipment? Yes....OR residents. His promise to come to CA to process permits was just the sales pitch to get money from "rich" CCW deprived CA residents.)

What about supporting pro-CCW CA sheriffs to issue CA residents permits?


Don't trash one option w/o offering a better alternative. I'm all for support good causes anywhere.....but one does need to give a certain amount and time, attention and funding to their immediate community, do they not?

Henry Hill
02-10-2010, 11:51 AM
Agree with UNtamed.. BTT, this needs to be seen more... We need to start working on converting San Jose ( I'll be suprised the day I see SJ become a shall-issue city)..

GuyW
02-10-2010, 12:30 PM
William Lum:

hang tight, brother -Jay La Suer is the only rock-solid 2nd Amendment candidate in this race. I have watched him for years, and he's not a newby to the "shall issue" position. He and Councilman Barry Jantz brought forward, and for 30 days prevailed, in their City Council effort to have La Mesa start issuing CCWs, back in the '90s.

Duffy felt the heat and adopted some sort of CCW policy AFTER THIS race started....and Ruff, while better than Gore on CCWs, isn't anywhere near "shall issue".


"San Diego Sheriff candidate, Jay LaSuer, who is running against Gore in the upcoming election, has made many statements about the CCW process and has openly endorsed a “shall issue” stance. “If a person can pass a background check and is a law abiding citizen they ‘shall’ receive a CCW license,” LaSuer explains. 'When you have a Sheriff like Gore who doesn’t understand the law, how can you expect him to apply it?'"

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-10317-San-Diego-County-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2010m2d10-Second-Amendment-lawsuit-takes-aim-at-SD-Sheriff-Gore

.

GJC
02-10-2010, 2:51 PM
Would very much like to meet Mr. LaSuer.

jnojr
02-10-2010, 4:08 PM
I've read a lot on these pages about the need for us to get up off our butts and do something to defend our 2A rights. I decided to do something locally when I met San Diego Sheriff's candidate Jay Lasuer and found out that he's a huge CCW proponent & endorsed by El Cajon Gun Exchange, American Shooting Center, Gun Owners of CA, etc. He's a former Assemblyman and La Mesa mayor, and when he asked me if I would host a fund raising event for him, all I could say was "sure".

This is the first time I'm doing something like this, and I'm asking my fellow San Diego CalGunners to show up in support. I would be honored to have any and all of you at my home and am hoping that this is continuing in a proud trend of activism among gun owners.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45547&d=1265691442

Feel free to post to the SDShooting group...

jnojr
02-10-2010, 4:12 PM
Sykes has a far greater chance of succeding in a reasonable timeframe than JLS has ability/cash to win.

So, what's your opinion for the SD Sheriff race? Another candidate? Write-in? Skip it?

I'll be voting for La Suer. On this, I'm a single-issue voter. I simply do not care about interpretations of things he did or said years ago. He has come right out and said that he will go shall-issue in San Diego, and that's all I need to hear. I am not going to vote for a "viable candidate" who will just continue with business as usual.

jnojr
02-10-2010, 4:14 PM
Duffy felt the heat and adopted some sort of CCW policy AFTER THIS race started....and Ruff, while better than Gore on CCWs, isn't anywhere near "shall issue".

I will NEVER vote for Ruff.

http://caopencarry.blogspot.com/2009/04/ruff-time.html

rynando
02-10-2010, 5:38 PM
Would very much like to meet Mr. LaSuer.

When you get the chance ask him how he's feeling about high-cap magazines these days.

R

Alaric
02-10-2010, 8:57 PM
Agree with UNtamed.. BTT, this needs to be seen more... We need to start working on converting San Jose ( I'll be surprised the day I see SJ become a shall-issue city)..

That is an EXCELLENT question. Who does Mr. Bill Wiese support for Sheriff in his county?

lumwilliam
02-10-2010, 9:36 PM
Would very much like to meet Mr. LaSuer.

How about at my house on the 20th? I'd love to have you. If you're on the fence about supporting him, it would be great to watch you pepper him with some tough questions to see if he can earn that support.

I can't sit by and let my chance for a ccw slip away. The scumbag Gore has never been elected. He was appointed. He has too many holes in his resume. He is beatable. If he wins, it will be next to impossible to unseat him for the next 10 years. I hope I can at least change 1 or 2 minds here and maybe help LaSuer raise a few bucks. Lets not saddle ourselves with another anti gun sheriff in San Diego!

hoffmang
02-10-2010, 10:02 PM
Funny that CFG jumps on the fundraising bandwagon for an out of state sheriff to buy new equipment to issue CA residents out of state CCWs. (ETA: in reality who are going to be the primary benefiters of the new OR equipment? Yes....OR residents. His promise to come to CA to process permits was just the sales pitch to get money from "rich" CCW deprived CA residents.)


1. CGF didn't jump on a fundraising bandwagon. We said we'd help him come to California to allow Californians to apply.

2. The OR Sheriff hasn't used his elected office to hurt California gun owners before.

-Gene

lumwilliam
02-10-2010, 11:56 PM
2. The OR Sheriff hasn't used his elected office to hurt California gun owners before.

-Gene

Hi Gene. I've got tremendous respect for you, calguns and what you're doing for 2A. I haven't followed statewide politics like I should, and I need to ask you because of your above statement - do you think LaSuer is not a good candidate for San Diego County Sheriff? I'm hearing some negative remarks, but am waiting to be told "LaSuer as Sheriff would/could be bad for local gun owners. I suggest you back ________ instead, as he will be much more likely to advance our shared cause."

I'm trying to act on what we all talk about and DO something. Am I doing the wrong something?

FreedomIsNotFree
02-11-2010, 12:53 AM
lumwilliam,

On the invitation in your OP you mention "for an evening in Tuscany, Carmel Valley style.."

Just curious what you mean when you say "Carmel Valley style".

oaklander
02-11-2010, 4:21 AM
Maybe "Sheriff Jay" could chime in at this point?

He IS a Calguns member (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/member.php?u=27289), you know?

:p

GuyW
02-11-2010, 7:03 AM
The scumbag Gore has never been elected. He was appointed. He has too many holes in his resume. He is beatable. If he wins, it will be next to impossible to unseat him for the next 10 years.

....more like next 20 years....aka, "Sheriff for Life"....
.

GuyW
02-11-2010, 7:08 AM
There's a continuing double standard going on here on CalGuns.

1st, gunnies who (naively) post that they are "no-compromise" on the RKBA, are told that they need to engage in real politik and get the best deal they can (in a circumstance), and look for incremental improvement.

But because some NRAers here are apparently permanently psychologically scarred over something Jay did, IN A DIFFERENT TIME AND POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT, we're supposed to throw him under the bus...

If you're not from San Diego, butt-out.
.

Untamed1972
02-11-2010, 8:14 AM
1. CGF didn't jump on a fundraising bandwagon. We said we'd help him come to California to allow Californians to apply.

2. The OR Sheriff hasn't used his elected office to hurt California gun owners before.

-Gene


I meant that there were threads posted and a couple emails sent out about the OR sheriffs proposal. Which I have no problem with by the way (see the other thread where I suggested some SoCal CalGunners meet the sheriff in Vegas and get their OR and NV CCWs in the same weekend).

But if one has limited funds, what is a better use of the funds they have to donate. Donating to an out-of-state sheriff to issue out of state CCWs that would be of very limited use to most people, esp. people from SD, or donating to the best candidate available in SD to get CCWs at home in the county they live in everyday?

Like most elections, sometimes "a lesser of evils" is the best a voter can do. So if you're gonna go thumbs down on JL, then at least offer an alternative. That's all I think anyone is asking, me included.

lumwilliam
02-11-2010, 8:52 AM
lumwilliam,

On the invitation in your OP you mention "for an evening in Tuscany, Carmel Valley style.."

Just curious what you mean when you say "Carmel Valley style".

Jay LaSuer's daughter Lori designed and worded the invitation. My wife was a little embarrassed by that sentence you quoted. As the LaSuer campaign is arranging donation of much of the wine/food, I really have no idea how she plans to create "an evening in Tuscany" or what "Carmel Valley Style" means to a La Mesa politician. LOL.

Untamed1972
02-11-2010, 8:57 AM
Jay LaSuer's daughter Lori designed and worded the invitation. My wife was a little embarrassed by that sentence you quoted. As the LaSuer campaign is arranging donation of much of the wine/food, I really have no idea how she plans to create "an evening in Tuscany" or what "Carmel Valley Style" means to a La Mesa politician. LOL.


I'm assuming you live in Carmel Valley?

I just took it to mean some kind of Tuscan style food served in Carmel Valley.....since the party isn't actually in Tuscany.

Geez.....sometimes you guys really over-think things.

Dragonaught
02-11-2010, 10:01 AM
I would like to attend the fund raiser if for no other reason than to speak with someone who could possibly have the ability to infringe on my Constitutional Rights and to see if his resolve to follow said Constitution ( http://www.sheriffjay.org/articles/carry_permits.html ) could be Written In Stone somehow. I'm tired of Political Candidates paying just scant Lip Service to the Constitution in the effort to get elected and then doing whatever the heck they want once in office.

The Constitution is our Sacred Bible of Freedom ( If you will ) and should not be taken lightly nor subjected to wrongful interpretation after Swearing to Uphold and Defend.

lumwilliam
02-11-2010, 8:36 PM
I'm tired of Political Candidates paying just scant Lip Service to the Constitution in the effort to get elected and then doing whatever the heck they want once in office.

I don't know what the solution is to that. I guess you can just go with the candidates with the best track records. I was so disappointed in Bush when he reached the low point of saying "we need to abandon free market principles to save the free markets". I walked precincts for this guy :(

hoffmang
02-11-2010, 9:09 PM
But because some NRAers here are apparently permanently psychologically scarred over something Jay did, IN A DIFFERENT TIME AND POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT, we're supposed to throw him under the bus...


I'm very realpolitik. If you actively do something that opposes the right to keep and bear arms, I'm not going to support you and I'm going to ask others to do the same. Too see consistency in action, please read what I've had to say about Paul Clement.


But if one has limited funds, what is a better use of the funds they have to donate. Donating to an out-of-state sheriff to issue out of state CCWs that would be of very limited use to most people, esp. people from SD, or donating to the best candidate available in SD to get CCWs at home in the county they live in everyday?

Thank you for assuming your conclusion. What would someone who claims they're pro gun have to do to not be good for gun owners? Seize legal firearms? Jail law abiding gun owners? Try to make felons of most gun owners in the state?

Hint. JSL did one of the above.

-Gene

gravedigger
02-11-2010, 9:56 PM
I sent the same letter to Jay LaSuer, Bill Gore and John Duffy.

Gore responded with a form letter basically telling me that it will be a cold day in HELL before I will be allowed to defend myself with a firearm in a life-threatening situation, and only the elite will have that privilege.

Duffy sent me a form letter assuring me that his stance on CCW was aligned with my views, and I should vote for him.

Jay LaSuer sent me a personal letter, and followed it up with a personal phone call to me, where he spent 15 minutes patiently listening to my concerns, and assured me that "For self defense" is the only GC he would need for an honest, law-abiding citizen to obtain a CCW (usual disclaimer, mentally ill, criminally insane etc. need not apply)

I judge a man by his character. We have ALL done things we are not proud of. Heck, I gave us Clinton by voting for Perot :( To scold him now, in today's political climate for something he did in a different job capacity (legislator - team player, Sheriff - BOSS!) is like bashing Bush because he drank alcohol A LOT in his youth.

I am moving OUT of this cesspool of socialism, so I no longer have a dog in the race, but I still trust my ability to size someone up very quickly, and in my brief interaction with each of these men, ONLY Jay LaSuer earned my trust.

Mulay El Raisuli
02-12-2010, 5:57 AM
I sent the same letter to Jay LaSuer, Bill Gore and John Duffy.

Gore responded with a form letter basically telling me that it will be a cold day in HELL before I will be allowed to defend myself with a firearm in a life-threatening situation, and only the elite will have that privilege.

Duffy sent me a form letter assuring me that his stance on CCW was aligned with my views, and I should vote for him.

Jay LaSuer sent me a personal letter, and followed it up with a personal phone call to me, where he spent 15 minutes patiently listening to my concerns, and assured me that "For self defense" is the only GC he would need for an honest, law-abiding citizen to obtain a CCW (usual disclaimer, mentally ill, criminally insane etc. need not apply)

I judge a man by his character. We have ALL done things we are not proud of. Heck, I gave us Clinton by voting for Perot :( To scold him now, in today's political climate for something he did in a different job capacity (legislator - team player, Sheriff - BOSS!) is like bashing Bush because he drank alcohol A LOT in his youth.

I am moving OUT of this cesspool of socialism, so I no longer have a dog in the race, but I still trust my ability to size someone up very quickly, and in my brief interaction with each of these men, ONLY Jay LaSuer earned my trust.


That's pretty impressive.


The Raisuli

Doug L
02-12-2010, 7:49 AM
Maybe "Sheriff Jay" could chime in at this point?

He IS a Calguns member (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/member.php?u=27289), you know?

:p

I just emailed Jay to let him know about this discussion.

Be interesting to see if he chooses to "chime in."

Untamed1972
02-12-2010, 7:56 AM
I'm very realpolitik. If you actively do something that opposes the right to keep and bear arms, I'm not going to support you and I'm going to ask others to do the same. Too see consistency in action, please read what I've had to say about Paul Clement.



Thank you for assuming your conclusion. What would someone who claims they're pro gun have to do to not be good for gun owners? Seize legal firearms? Jail law abiding gun owners? Try to make felons of most gun owners in the state?

Hint. JSL did one of the above.

-Gene


So then who in your knowledgeable opinion do you think IS the best candidate out of the currently available choices? That's all I'm asking.....why is that such a hard question to answer?

Kestryll
02-12-2010, 9:07 AM
After all the threads on the SD Sheriff's race I've seen all the reasons why someone should not vote for LaSuer, Hunt, Ruff, and of course Gore.

I'm really interested in who everyone thinks the people in San Diego SHOULD vote for.
We seen the 'Don't vote for..' responses, let's see some 'Do vote for...' replies.



ETA: While I do not have a suggestion for who to vote for I can say that personally I could not vote for LaSuer due to his support from and for Arpaio.
As long as someone allies themself with criminals I can not support them and I consider Arpaio to be nothing more than a thug and a criminal.

lumwilliam
02-12-2010, 3:50 PM
I sent the same letter to Jay LaSuer, Bill Gore and John Duffy.

Gore responded with a form letter basically telling me that it will be a cold day in HELL before I will be allowed to defend myself with a firearm in a life-threatening situation, and only the elite will have that privilege.

Duffy sent me a form letter assuring me that his stance on CCW was aligned with my views, and I should vote for him.

Jay LaSuer sent me a personal letter, and followed it up with a personal phone call to me, where he spent 15 minutes patiently listening to my concerns, and assured me that "For self defense" is the only GC he would need for an honest, law-abiding citizen to obtain a CCW (usual disclaimer, mentally ill, criminally insane etc. need not apply)

I judge a man by his character. We have ALL done things we are not proud of. Heck, I gave us Clinton by voting for Perot :( To scold him now, in today's political climate for something he did in a different job capacity (legislator - team player, Sheriff - BOSS!) is like bashing Bush because he drank alcohol A LOT in his youth.

I am moving OUT of this cesspool of socialism, so I no longer have a dog in the race, but I still trust my ability to size someone up very quickly, and in my brief interaction with each of these men, ONLY Jay LaSuer earned my trust.

Awesome Gravedigger! This is the same type of experience I had with him a couple of months ago. I hear a lot of back and forth here, but don't think there's anybody running that's better for the job. I also think Jay will do a ton of good for gun owners as sheriff. I hope those that have problems with him can step back and look at the total of his record & all he's done.

Doug L
02-12-2010, 3:51 PM
I just received an email response from Jay La Suer.

Here it is, in its entirety:


Douglas:
Okay, I read all of the comments. I can't seem to remember my password so I'll give you some comments and perhaps you can forward them to the thread. While in Sacramento as a member of the California State Assembly I received an A+ rating from the NRA each year. I've been a life member of the NRA for years and am an avid shooter. The NRA would never award an A+ rating to a person who was in any way anti-gun. While in Sacramento I had a disagreement with a representative of the NRA. I won't memtion this person’s name because I don't believe in speaking behind someone's back. Suffice it to say it was a personality conflict not a legislative conflict. My position on CCW's has been on my web site for over a year and a half. Quite simply if you are a law abiding citizen with no psychological problems, not a convicted felon, are familiar with the laws pertaining to the use of lethal force and competent with your weapon you will be issued a CCW. One of the other candidates believes that "California is a shall not issue state", one of the candidates does not believe that "personal protection" is good cause to obtain a CCW and the other candidate believes that after qualifying for a CCW you must then pass a "personal interview." Each of the other candidates has a built in escape clause to deny the CCW. I am an avid shooter, hunter and believer in the 2nd Amendment and will stand by what I've stated above for issuance of a CCW.
Jay

2009_gunner
02-12-2010, 3:59 PM
I imagine that everyone on this forum who lives in San Diego will be voting for Jay La Suer.

I and my family will be. He's the only viable candidate for a job which has immediate impact on our lives.

lumwilliam
02-12-2010, 4:05 PM
Anybody out there willing to blast out the invite to their conservative/pro gun friends via email- please PM me! I'll send you over the invite/directions. I hope we can do something here at CalGuns to help Jay overcome the fundraising gap with Gore!!

hoffmang
02-12-2010, 6:28 PM
While in Sacramento I had a disagreement with a representative of the NRA. I won't memtion this person’s name because I don't believe in speaking behind someone's back. Suffice it to say it was a personality conflict not a legislative conflict.

It's a "personality conflict" when you attempt to create constructive possession for AWs and ban all large capacity magazines.... :rolleyes:

And Paul Clement was pro-gun in Heller too!

There is one thing I can tell about JSL - he's clearly a politician.

-Gene

mike_schwartz@mail.com
02-12-2010, 10:35 PM
The bill on AW from Jay...what was the final vote on that bill in the Assembly?

hoffmang
02-12-2010, 10:43 PM
The bill on AW from Jay...what was the final vote on that bill in the Assembly?

Luckily it was killed. Why did a supposedly pro-gun politician introduced it? I guess it would be the nicer assumption to just choose incompetence as the motive?

-Gene

mike_schwartz@mail.com
02-12-2010, 10:45 PM
It was killed? On the floor by a vote?

lumwilliam
02-12-2010, 11:14 PM
Gene - If you think Jay La Suer will be a bad sheriff for San Diego County, I want you to come out and say it! I can respect it if that's your opinion. But it makes me sad to see someone with all the medals and badges you have on your avatar and sig line do nothing but be negative about calgunners trying to get out and do something positive for 2A.

I was born in San Mateo and grew up in the Bay Area. So many of the conservatives down there are so beaten by the barbara boxer crowd that all they do is sit around with only each other, complaining that anybody who's out there trying to buck that system isn't hard core right-wing enough for them.

When you first chimed in to this thread I created, I thought "wow, CRPA board of directors. Chairman of the Calguns Foundation. NRA life member". But then I go on to hear you do nothing but be negative. You're obviously a leader in this fight. I'm shelling out more of my own money than I can afford to get a pro-gun sheriff elected in my hometown. I spent ALL DAY today working the phones, trying to get people to commit to attending the event at my house next Saturday. I log on to calguns to get support and direction from those I share common cause with. I'm asking you to provide the leadership!! You've got superior knowledge of the political back story. One of your calguns troops is marching into battle to support 2A. If I'm fighting the wrong fight, then re-direct me. Tell me Jay is too incompetent to be my sheriff and tell me who I should be supporting. But negativity is simply unacceptable to me, and I feel, the reason we are where we are here in California.

hoffmang
02-12-2010, 11:30 PM
Tell me Jay is too incompetent to be my sheriff and tell me who I should be supporting. But negativity is simply unacceptable to me, and I feel, the reason we are where we are here in California.

Jay attempted to either take advantage of gun owners or hurt us through incompetence state wide. Read the bill:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/asm/ab_2201-2250/ab_2218_bill_20040331_amended_asm.html

If you want to help someone who did something that hurt your interests, be my guest. Me, I'm going to support almost anyone else.

-Gene

slick_711
02-13-2010, 8:23 PM
Jay attempted to either take advantage of gun owners or hurt us through incompetence state wide. Read the bill:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/asm/ab_2201-2250/ab_2218_bill_20040331_amended_asm.html

If you want to help someone who did something that hurt your interests, be my guest. Me, I'm going to support almost anyone else.

-Gene

For the record, what is your county of residence Sir?

hoffmang
02-13-2010, 8:26 PM
For the record, what is your county of residence Sir?

San Mateo County. What I know is that AB 2218 would have effected me and you.

-Gene

mike_schwartz@mail.com
02-13-2010, 9:51 PM
So what finally killed that bill, Gene?

hoffmang
02-13-2010, 10:17 PM
So what finally killed that bill, Gene?

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/asm/ab_2201-2250/ab_2218_bill_20041130_history.html

-Gene

Alaric
02-13-2010, 11:11 PM
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/asm/ab_2201-2250/ab_2218_bill_20041130_history.html

-Gene

Am I reading that correctly? It looks like Jay killed his own bill while it was still in committee. So you still hate Jay even though he killed the bill you wanted him to kill?

BILL HISTORY
2004
Nov. 30 From committee without further action.
Apr. 20 In committee: Set, first hearing. Hearing canceled at the request
of author.
Apr. 1 Re-referred to Com. on PUB. S.
Mar. 31 From committee chair, with author's amendments: Amend, and re-refer
to Com. on PUB. S. Read second time and amended.
Mar. 30 Referred to Com. on PUB. S.
Feb. 19 From printer. May be heard in committee March 20.
Feb. 18 Read first time. To print.

lumwilliam
02-13-2010, 11:16 PM
Wow - so what I just think I read (and I'm not adept at reading bills) is that Jay killed this bill himself?

I tried to do a little research, and as I said, I'm not to adept at navigating the assembly website, but it looks like Jay had the support of a ton of gun groups and was trying to do right by us, and when the bill ended up being proven flawed, ie. the net losses outweighed the gains, he stopped it. It also sounded like he had the support of many pro gun republicans throughout the process, including Chuck DeVore.

Hope I won't be asked by anyone on CalGuns to vote Carly Fiorina!

hoffmang
02-13-2010, 11:19 PM
I'm glad that those who opposed him on the bill were able to prevail upon him to not let it pass.

-Gene

mike_schwartz@mail.com
02-14-2010, 7:39 AM
So this candidate who is anti-gun:
-Introduced a watered-down version of the current AWB
-But then killed it himself before it even got out of committee
-Voted against the AWB

Odd moves for a guy who is anti-gun.

Odder than that is his history of:

-As a city councilman pushing the city of La Mesa to issue CCWs years before he was in the Assembly or running for Sheriff
-Mentoring at shooting clinics
-Being a well respected and active member of Lemon Grove Rod and Gun
-Attending Friends of the NRA dinners (including buy a tables and sponsorship packages)
-Making issuing CCWs a major focal pint of his campaign for Sheriff
-Making his entire family (daughter, wife, grandchildren) all Life Members of the NRA
-Hosting fundraisers at local gun ranges
-Being endorsed by an extremely gun friendly Sheriff Arpaio

It is hard to explain. Must be a tricky anti-gunner trick.

Weird.

hoffmang
02-14-2010, 11:08 AM
So explain why he tried to strong arm the NRA into supporting a bill that banned large capacity magazines.

-Gene

mike_schwartz@mail.com
02-14-2010, 11:59 AM
Gene, I don't speak for Jay. Great question for him to answer and I think he already addressed it on here a little. For now I will just point out some facts and let people draw their own conclusions. I will refrain from drawing conclusions using half the facts and then attacking someone’s reputation based on it.

Speaking of, Bwiese…the “baby killer Gore” nickname is inaccurate. The baby Vicki Weaver was holding when she was shot survived. And Randy weaver’s 14 year old son was shot by marshals a full day before the FBI (including Gore) was involved.

bwiese
02-14-2010, 12:21 PM
Speaking of, Bwiese…the “baby killer Gore” nickname is inaccurate. The baby Vicki Weaver was holding when she was shot survived. And Randy weaver’s 14 year old son was shot by marshals a full day before the FBI (including Gore) was involved.

OK, point made - but then we do sentence to death people who just drive the getaway car in crime and haven't directly pulled the trigger.

7x57
02-14-2010, 1:31 PM
Can we let him run in peace now and let San Diego gunnies make up their minds without more attacks? Please?

NO.

Not unless SD gunnies restrict themselves to activities that have no effect on anyone else whatsoever. You have NO RIGHT to sacrifice anyone else's rights for your special CCW privilege (and what you're fighting for is NOT a right, it is more wide enjoyment of privilege).

Whether or not you are in fact selling out everyone else is the question being debated, and trying to shut down debate you apparently find unfavorable to your quest for CCW privileges is not appropriate.

7x57

Kestryll
02-14-2010, 1:37 PM
I've asked this before and now I'm asking it again.

There are four people running and many are quite adept at telling people in San Diego "Don't vote for 'X'".

Fine, if you want to tell someone not to vote for person 'X' then offer person 'Y' to vote for and reasons to vote for them.

I'd really like to hear some reason why people SHOULD vote for any one of the four because one of those four WILL be Sheriff and so far all I'm seeing is people telling San Diego members to not vote for anyone.

Kestryll
02-14-2010, 1:43 PM
NO.

Not unless SD gunnies restrict themselves to activities that have no effect on anyone else whatsoever. You have NO RIGHT to sacrifice anyone else's rights for your special CCW privilege (and what you're fighting for is NOT a right, it is more wide enjoyment of privilege).

Whether or not you are in fact selling out everyone else is the question being debated, and trying to shut down debate you apparently find unfavorable to your quest for CCW privileges is not appropriate.

7x57

They are voting on a local Sheriff, who has no say on anyone's rights outside of San Diego.
You are asking them to give up their chance to get the CCW permit that many others in this State already get through their local CLEO.

How does whoever wins the LOCAL SD Sheriff race sacrifice anyone in Los Angeles County's rights?

7x57
02-14-2010, 1:47 PM
Glad someone finally said it. It's a victory on the road to a most likely ultimate loss.

I said it before on another thread, but no one paid any attention. :D

Judges that want someone to lose big make sure the record shows them getting every possible opportunity.

7x57

7x57
02-14-2010, 1:52 PM
There's a continuing double standard going on here on CalGuns.

1st, gunnies who (naively) post that they are "no-compromise" on the RKBA


...then try to shut up anyone who points out that they may be selling out the right for a simple privilege they want from their Lord High Sheriff.


If you're not from San Diego, butt-out.
.

If that is your attitude, I'd suggest you do the right thing and create an SD-only board. This is not an appropriate place for you to have the tightly censored discussion you desire.

You were right about the double standard--some people wish to use the nationwide audience of Calguns to raise money from out-of-county, but want everyone to shut up and do nothing more than write checks.

7x57

Kestryll
02-14-2010, 1:55 PM
If that is your attitude, I'd suggest you do the right thing and create an SD-only board. This is not an appropriate place for you to have the tightly censored discussion you desire.



Excuse me??

7x57
02-14-2010, 1:56 PM
T
How does whoever wins the LOCAL SD Sheriff race sacrifice anyone in Los Angeles County's rights?

How will we know if they manage to silence dissent? Bill's point about JLS's record is all about the kinds of signals that it sends for the future. It is about what it says to other candidates at other times and places.

I actually don't argue much about which is right, but I have no respect for people who continually say "everybody send money, but shut up." I want to hear the opinions they desire to silence.

After all, if it really doesn't involve anyone but San Diegans, why do they continually start the threads to raise money here?

7x57

TKM
02-14-2010, 1:57 PM
I live in San Diego county.

I'm voting for my local Sheriff.

I'm voting for Jay.

He is a good man and we will be better off if he holds office again.

I don't think we need to see our CLEO in the pride parade again.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

7x57
02-14-2010, 1:59 PM
Excuse me??

On which other topic can one group ask the whole world for money and support without permitting dissent? Nothing else comes to mind. The orange county guys get plenty of feedback on their candidate and efforts, IIRC.

ETA: another example--people who suggest donating to GoA/GoC here have to face the criticism of GoC's past performance and tactics. Should they get protected status?

I really don't see how what they want isn't extra-special treatment that no one else gets, nor do I see how what they want is compatible with the moderation policy of the board (which seems fairly consistent and clear).

7x57

Kestryll
02-14-2010, 2:02 PM
After all, if it really doesn't involve anyone but San Diegans, why do they continually start the threads to raise money here?

7x57

Why does an Oregon Sheriff come here to raise funds?
Why does anyone go to a large body of people concentrated in one place to raise funds?

Because it's an effective way to get your request out to a lot of people at one time.

Discussion on the topic is fine and so is pointing out concerns or issues but so far all I'm seeing is people telling SD members to vote for no one and not offering anyone TO vote for.

7x57
02-14-2010, 2:11 PM
Discussion on the topic is fine and so is pointing out concerns or issues but so far all I'm seeing is people telling SD members to vote for no one and not offering anyone TO vote for.

And that's a rational criticism, which as you say has never been answered on any thread I've seen. It would be informative for Bill to suggest and defend an alternative course of action. Bill, I *would* like to know what you would do if you lived in SD. It's a valid question which never gets an answer.

But what I objected to are not posts about that--it is posts that say "butt out if you're not in San Diego." Suppose, ex hypothesi, that Bill is correct--then it matters to *me* what the SD guys do. But he might not be correct--how will we be able to make an informed judgement on that if the discussion is only open to San Diegans? Somehow I don't think we're going to tell Gray Peterson to butt out because he doesn't live in California.

I also am willing to bet that if a San Diegan objected to JLS he'd be told to butt out of their chance to get a CCW as well, so I don't really believe the regional argument. It seems to me that the issue is weighing the good of the few against the good of the many, and based on vague imponderables to boot.

Finally, JLS has little chance of winning, so the probabilities on both sides are small.

7x57

2009_gunner
02-14-2010, 2:26 PM
I said it before on another thread, but no one paid any attention. :D

Judges that want someone to lose big make sure the record shows them getting every possible opportunity.

7x57

I'm wondering then. If this has a strong possibility of being a trap, why would Gura want to include the judge's denial to dismiss as Exhibit A in Palmer?

It appears Gura liked the judge's writing and reasoning. Is this reasoning something the judge faked to set up Peruta for a bigger fall later?... Seems unlikely.

hoffmang
02-14-2010, 2:51 PM
1. The filing deadline isn't here yet so this is all pure speculation. Until the filing deadline I suggest everyone should support no one.

2. Gore has some nasty entanglement with Ruby Ridge. However, he's not going to be worse than the guy he replaced. Early polling puts him tied with JLS.

3. JLS has real defacto anti-gun baggage. It appears to me he puts his own politics far, far above what's best for gun owners. Also, I'm not a fan or Aprorio who JLS really wants to align with. If you're for local tyranny I guess that's ok. However, he too is tied with Gore in early polls.

4. Duffy. Lots of people say he's got some problem or baggage but I can tell you this - he's 10 points ahead of both Gore and JLS this past November. I'm unaware of what the baggage is but someone can enlighten everyone I'm sure.

5. This is the last election that a sheriff can influence CCW issuance. In less than 24 months sheriffs aren't going to have discretion and after that, sheriffs aren't all that important to gun owners.

Here is the poll (http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollPrint.aspx?g=46e983da-5975-4054-b3e3-37a5df737d7e&d=0).

-Gene

Alaric
02-14-2010, 10:02 PM
I actually don't argue much about which is right, but I have no respect for people who continually say "everybody send money, but shut up."

I keep hearing you say this is about pleas for money from the rest of the state, but I have yet to see any evidence of that. This thread was started to spread the word about a local fund raising event in the county for a local county candidate. I think we would all be pleasantly surprised (a little shocked even) to see anyone from out of county show up, or lend any significant monetary support to anyone in this race.

1. The filing deadline isn't here yet so this is all pure speculation. Until the filing deadline I suggest everyone should support no one.

Supporting no one will give the defacto incumbent (Gore) an advantage. No one has defeated a sitting sheriff in SD County in decades. We need this time to build up JLS's coffers and create momentum toward the election. Asking us to support no one in fact means we are only supporting Gore.

2. Gore has some nasty entanglement with Ruby Ridge. However, he's not going to be worse than the guy he replaced. Early polling puts him tied with JLS.

Saying Gore isn't going to be worse than his predecessor doesn't sound in any way like an endorsement for Gore. His predecessor was HORRIBLE for our rights.

Bottom line Gene, are you endorsing Gore?

3. JLS has real defacto anti-gun baggage. It appears to me he puts his own politics far, far above what's best for gun owners. Also, I'm not a fan or Aprorio who JLS really wants to align with. If you're for local tyranny I guess that's ok. However, he too is tied with Gore in early polls.

You mean Arpaio? Arpaio has not only a very pro-2A policy in place, he also has a strong stand on illegal immigration, which is something San Diegans also have exceedingly strong feelings on. It can be relatively easy for someone up north to take a dismissive attitude toward immigration policy, as they simply don't see the effects of that policy as stongly as those who live in a border county see it. SD gunnies overwhelmingly want action in this area, and we want our local elected officials to reflect our attitudes in this area. JLS does that for us.

5. This is the last election that a sheriff can influence CCW issuance. In less than 24 months sheriffs aren't going to have discretion and after that, sheriffs aren't all that important to gun owners

You seem awfully sure of that. What if your suit loses? SD gunnies can't be expected to give up their best candidate for a a friendly CCW policy because we might win a lawsuit at some point down the line. That would be unreasonable.


And to you Kes, thank you for reiterating our question to JLS's nay-sayers in areas outside of San Diego County. Who is it we should support, if not JLS?

hoffmang
02-14-2010, 10:12 PM
I'm supporting no one until the filing deadline is over and yes, I'm quite confident that Sykes/Palmer will take sheriff's out of the process beyond ministerial duties.

-Gene

Alaric
02-14-2010, 10:20 PM
I'm supporting no one until the filing deadline is over and yes, I'm quite confident that Sykes/Palmer will take sheriff's out of the process beyond ministerial duties.

-Gene

I would be surprised if you weren't confident of your case. Your confidence isn't enough however to override our need to vote for the best possible candidate we can. Unfortunately, you're not the judge deciding the outcome of Sykes.

7x57
02-14-2010, 11:33 PM
Apropos of nothing much, it occurs to me that a lot of people are getting invested pretty heavily in our lawsuits. There will be some political fallout if they fail.

I guess they'd better succeed.

7x57

lumwilliam
02-15-2010, 12:13 AM
4. Duffy. Lots of people say he's got some problem or baggage but I can tell you this - he's 10 points ahead of both Gore and JLS this past November. I'm unaware of what the baggage is but someone can enlighten everyone I'm sure.


Duffy has a long history as a "labor representative". the deputy sheriff's association endorsed him early on, as have police/firefighter unions. That, combined with the name rec he inherited from his father, former sheriff John Duffy - in fact, the Sheriff's headquarters here in San Diego is called the John Duffy building.

The name recognition and union support have given duffy an early lead, but the county, especially the parts contracted with the sheriff are largely conservative, and as the chips start to fall & the few voters with working brain cells start to do their research, the race should start to re-align around core issues - tough on crime/illegal immigration, conservative principals.

On 9/16/09, on the Rick Amato radio show, Amato asked if he would position himself “to the left or to the right of opponent Bill Gore” Duffy said:

“Definitely to the left of Bill Gore. In fact I will be to the left of all other candidates”.

I didn't hear the entire broadcast, so can't give you context, but that quote has made headlines locally. Considering Gore was an independent and only decided recently to become a Republican, his wife was a local fundraiser for Hillary Clinton in 2008, and he has been an advertised headliner for local ACLU fundraisers, it makes me wonder about Duffy.

FreedomIsNotFree
02-15-2010, 12:34 AM
I'm supporting no one until the filing deadline is over and yes, I'm quite confident that Sykes/Palmer will take sheriff's out of the process beyond ministerial duties.

-Gene

With all due respect Gene this position of yours seems inconsistent. You, along with the the board members CGF, have individually spoke of your support of Brown for Governor and he hasn't even announced yet, nor has the filing deadline closed.

bwiese
02-15-2010, 8:16 AM
With all due respect Gene this position of yours seems inconsistent. You, along with the the board members CGF, have individually spoke of your support of Brown for Governor and he hasn't even announced yet, nor has the filing deadline closed.

Well, Brown is currently AG, and the rest of the field is entirely antigun.
That inconsistency is balanced by some ongoing realpolitik.

hoffmang
02-15-2010, 11:10 AM
With all due respect Gene this position of yours seems inconsistent. You, along with the the board members CGF, have individually spoke of your support of Brown for Governor and he hasn't even announced yet, nor has the filing deadline closed.

Are you serious?

Betting that Brown is running versus which one of these Sheriff candidates does or doesn't show up is wildly different. Use some common sense please.

Alaric, I'm confident in the cases because I can count to five and I can see what happened to the argument in Peruta - right there in San Diego county with our cases' argument.

-Gene

SenorJefe
02-15-2010, 11:17 AM
I live in San Diego county.

I'm voting for my local Sheriff.

I'm voting for Jay.

He is a good man and we will be better off if he holds office again.

I don't think we need to see our CLEO in the pride parade again.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

I laughed...I agreed.

Alaric
02-15-2010, 2:05 PM
Alaric, I'm confident in the cases because I can count to five and I can see what happened to the argument in Peruta - right there in San Diego county with our cases' argument.

Peruta's case hasn't won yet, nor has it been dismissed.

Not exactly a lot of faith to be garnered from that.

pullnshoot25
02-15-2010, 4:51 PM
I may be a bit slow on this and please, someone step in to correct me if I am wrong...

Reading the one AWB bill Jay drafted up that was eventually killed, I see nothing more than watering down the existing law so as to prevent people from getting arrested by overzealous cops on "capacity to accept" charges. It seems to me that this was just one step in the right direction in getting things back to some semblance of normalcy. Again, this is just my perfunctory analysis and I welcome any corrections.

I haven't been able to find that hi-cap mag proposal on this thread so if someone could post it that would be fantastic.

As far as candidates, Jay LaSuer is pretty much the best choice I know of. My neighbor has personal connections with a lot of the older LEO community (a product of the trade he has chosen) and what is being said in the LEO circles is that Gore is a Federal *** and Duff is a tool. Everyone knows my opinion on Ruff (jdberger linked it earlier :thumbsup:) and that just seems to leave LaSuer.

Any opinions welcome.

hoffmang
02-15-2010, 5:42 PM
Peruta's case hasn't won yet, nor has it been dismissed.

Not exactly a lot of faith to be garnered from that.

You probably don't have a basis to make that judgment from. Most claims against counties like the types of claims we made in Sykes and Peruta duplicated in his case get tossed on a 12(b)6 motion. That judges ruling agreed with the 7th Circuit and US v. Skoien that the denial of a 12050 license will be subject to at least intermediate scrutiny - which is almost certainly fatal in this case. Absent some experience with federal litigation, you're not going to catch the significance. It's why that decision was filed in Palmer in DC as Federal Judges do understand that.

-Gene

GuyW
02-15-2010, 9:16 PM
As far as candidates, Jay LaSuer is pretty much the best choice I know of. My neighbor has personal connections with a lot of the older LEO community (a product of the trade he has chosen) and what is being said in the LEO circles is that Gore is a Federal *** and Duff is a tool. Everyone knows my opinion on Ruff (jdberger linked it earlier :thumbsup:) and that just seems to leave LaSuer.

Any opinions welcome.

Be nice if those LEO would actually speak up publicly....

.

FreedomIsNotFree
02-15-2010, 11:20 PM
Jay LaSuer's daughter Lori designed and worded the invitation. My wife was a little embarrassed by that sentence you quoted. As the LaSuer campaign is arranging donation of much of the wine/food, I really have no idea how she plans to create "an evening in Tuscany" or what "Carmel Valley Style" means to a La Mesa politician. LOL.

Heck, no need to be embarrassed. It definitely caught my eye being that I grew up in the Carmel Valley area. For those unfamiliar, Carmel Valley is quaint, has picturesque rolling hills and a general easy going feel to it. And lets not forget that the food and wine are excellent.

Best of luck with the fundraiser.

FreedomIsNotFree
02-15-2010, 11:33 PM
Are you serious?

Betting that Brown is running versus which one of these Sheriff candidates does or doesn't show up is wildly different. Use some common sense please.

-Gene

The inconsistency has nothing to do with who would eventually run...it has to do with the fact that on more than one occasion you've been willing to ignore the sum total of a politicians positions based on their stance or potential stance that either has or may have a positive outcome for the RKBA. Yet with LaSuer, the opposite seems to be at play.

Common sense would dictate consistency.

oaklander
02-15-2010, 11:56 PM
LOL

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. - Emerson

The inconsistency has nothing to do with who would eventually run...it has to do with the fact that on more than one occasion you've been willing to ignore the sum total of a politicians positions based on their stance or potential stance that either has or may have a positive outcome for the RKBA. Yet with LaSuer, the opposite seems to be at play.

Common sense would dictate consistency.

FreedomIsNotFree
02-16-2010, 12:16 AM
LOL

Cute. I found one myself...

“The lawyer's truth is not Truth, but consistency or a consistent expediency.”

Henry David Thoreau

wildhawker
02-16-2010, 12:23 AM
The quote war alone shall make this epic. Carry on.

FreedomIsNotFree
02-16-2010, 12:35 AM
The quote war alone shall make this epic. Carry on.

As a general rule, I don't put a whole lot of stock in anything said by someone with the middle name of Waldo...but that's just me. :)

In all seriousness, I don't want to derail this thread with an OT quote war.

oaklander
02-16-2010, 12:37 AM
This is my favorite quote of all time. OK, everyone, carry on!

This soldier, I realized, must have had friends at home and in his regiment; yet he lay there deserted by all except his dog. I looked on, unmoved, at battles which decided the future of nations. Tearless, I had given orders which brought death to thousands. Yet here I was stirred, profoundly stirred, stirred to tears. And by what? By the grief of one dog.

Napoleon Bonaparte, on finding a dog beside the body of his dead master, licking his face and howling, on a moonlit field after a battle. Napoleon was haunted by this scene until his own death.

dantodd
02-16-2010, 6:18 AM
The inconsistency has nothing to do with who would eventually run...it has to do with the fact that on more than one occasion you've been willing to ignore the sum total of a politicians positions based on their stance or potential stance that either has or may have a positive outcome for the RKBA. Yet with LaSuer, the opposite seems to be at play.

Common sense would dictate consistency.

There are fundamental differences in a race like the governorship. In the gubernatorial race all the state-wide players are well known. Those who have either a suitable war chest or the ability to raise one are known. There are a considerable number of polls that give insight into the populations perception of each candidate.

There is very little chance of a candidate coming out from nowhere at this point and being able to raise money or name recognition adequately to challenge JB for the Democratic nomination or Meg Whitman for the Republican nomination.

A sheriff's race, on the other hand can change with the entry of a candidate because it is much easier to raise the money needed for a local election (even on in a highly populated county.)

You have to also understand that Gene, Bill and the majority of the rest of the board on CGF (with one or two notable exceptions) are much more interested in rights restoration and individual freedom and have very little interest in party politics. (i.e. they appear from this outsider's view, for the most part much more libertarian than republican.)

hoffmang
02-16-2010, 9:21 PM
The inconsistency has nothing to do with who would eventually run...it has to do with the fact that on more than one occasion you've been willing to ignore the sum total of a politicians positions based on their stance or potential stance that either has or may have a positive outcome for the RKBA. Yet with LaSuer, the opposite seems to be at play.

Common sense would dictate consistency.

If you can find me something defacto or dejure that Mr. Brown has done on the record (like JLS) then I'd be inconsistent.

Until then, not so much.

-Gene

KylaGWolf
02-16-2010, 10:11 PM
I am not overly fond of any of the candidates running for SD Sheriff. That being said I do know of the two that I won't be voting for and that is Ruff and Gore. I had the chance to see Ruff speak in person and watched him go from trying to get votes to out and out alienate every single person in the room. And in all honesty thinking about that night kind of reminds me of another incident that is now getting big time responses here on CGN.

As for Jay I am not sure if I can vote for him either with a clear conscious. Here is the thing if he sold out gunnies once what makes anyone think that he won't do it again.

lumwilliam
02-16-2010, 11:55 PM
A lot of people here are using AB2218 to accuse La Suer of "selling out Gunnies" as Kyla just said. Please look at all the facts before making statements like that. Here is Jay's post in response to these types of charges, right here on calguns:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=2056273#post2056273

Good Evening Second Amendment Supporters-

I have been reading the on-going conversation regarding AB2218 with a great deal of interest. I have noticed that false information has been stated as fact.

AB2218 was a bill I introduced to modify California's Assault Weapons law. My staff and I worked with representatives of the gun community including the National Rifle Association (NRA), California Rifle & Pistol Association (CRPA) and Gun Owners of California (GOC). Additionally we worked with the Attorney General's office.

Due to time limitations it became obvious to me we would not be able to perfect the language in the bill within the allotted time. I therefore pulled and killed the bill. It was and still is my belief that a poorly written bill, even though the intent is good, is as dangerous as a bad bill.

Unfortunately, one person who works for the NRA (of which I am a Life Member) did not have all of the facts on the bill, including amending language and the fact that I had pulled the bill. As a result, bad information was given out.

I will quote language from a letter I received from Mr. Chris Cox, of the NRA, concerning the events surrounding AB2218. I have taken names that Mr. Cox refers to out as I have no desire to embarrass any 2nd Amendment supporters.

"Regarding Mr. XXXXX conduct surrounding the introduction and eventual withdrawal of AB 2218, I apologize for any lack of communication or miscommunication between ILA staff and you and your staff. ILA is committed to working with you on behalf of the Second Amendment and gun owners throughout California. To that end, it is my understanding that some concerns were raised over earlier versions of AB2218, especially regarding the issue of high capacity magazines, which caused some confusion. What is clear, however, is that XXXXX did not have the most current version or know of your plans to withdraw the bill when he faxed the note to your office on April 16 - a note that was entirely inappropriate to send"

"I will be directing XXX XXXXX to schedule an appointment with you and your staff as soon as possible so that he may apologize personally for the events surrounding AB2218. I hope you find time to meet with him, in the hopes of repairing some of the damage done, so that we can create a better working relationship going forward. If you would prefer that either Randy Kozuch or I also attend that meeting, we would be happy to do so."

"Again, I enjoyed our recent phone conversation, although I do regret the circumstances under which it arose. You have both my apology for the events surrounding AB2218 and my commitment to better communication in our efforts to work together going forward. Should you ever need anything from NRA-ILA, please do not hesitate to contact me."

The above statements were directly from Mr. Chris Cox, Executive Director NRA-ILA. It should be obvious that many of the statements I have read on this thread are at best, misinformation, mistakes and at worst outright FALSE.

I have in my possession all correspondence regarding AB2218. I hesitate to make them public because I do not want to chance embarrassing another member of the gun community. Those who are in the gun community must work together towards unified goals and not damage other team members.
Jay

FreedomIsNotFree
02-17-2010, 12:23 AM
If you can find me something defacto or dejure that Mr. Brown has done on the record (like JLS) then I'd be inconsistent.

Until then, not so much.

-Gene


Let's move away from the inconsistency discussion for a moment.

The issue at hand is which candidate for Sheriff in San Diego County will offer more to the San Diego County gun owner. Clearly, LaSuer, with his firm commitment to go shall issue, is head and shoulders above the rest.

Notwithstanding your criticism of LaSuer, which is called in to question by the Cox letter quoted above, as Sheriff, LaSuer would have no capability of hurting CA gun owners...even if he went completely off the reservation.

Where is the net loss in supporting the most RKBA friendly candidate? Put yourself in the shoes of the SD gun owner...would you pass up the opportunity to vote for a shall issue Sheriff?

I would hope you could see the huge upside if a shall issue Sheriff of a county the size of San Diego were to win.

tango-52
02-17-2010, 6:28 AM
As I have stated in the Orange County election threads, the focus right now needs to be on ensuring that the appointed Sheriff (Hutchens in OC, Gore in SD) comes in third in the June Primary. This will give us strong 2A candidates that we can then debate about. Until the very real threat to RKBA is eliminated, we need to pull together for the common good. The poll posted above shows Jay LaSuer and The Hero of Ruby Ridge neck and neck in second place, with Duffy well ahead. We need to throw support to Jay to ensure he leaves Gore in the dust. Then, and only then, should we be worrying about the finer points of who is more to our particular liking. ;) Then, in both counties, whoever gets elected will have a much more friendly attitude toward firearms issues. Having two high-population counties that begin issuing CCWs for easy Good Causes will certainly help in the push to better issuance state-wide.

The Duke
02-17-2010, 4:02 PM
If you're not from San Diego, butt-out.
.

You san diego guys are making yourselves really look bad, and the Gene Hoffman bashing is the icing on the cake. If I were offering money, you'd take it in a second, but when it's revealing facts that don't fit your zombie like, coolaide drinking attitude, it's "butt out".

Gene's only fault was to have high expectations that San Diego could do better. Unfortunately, he's overestimating much of San Diego's gunowning population. The guy who dangles a CCW in front of you has your vote, regardless if he takes part in utterly trashing the constitution when it suits his political purposes.

I can't believe Alaric, wildhawker, untamed and a bunch of others, basically with their heads in the sand, saying "you're not from here so don't tell me what's wrong with my candidate".

Being a gun enthusiast is one thing, but once you sell out your other principles for it, you're no longer fighting for the right cause. Gene has done more for this cause then all of you combined, and I think his resume and the quality of his posts shows he's a little more sophisticated than some of the others here.. It's hard to sit by and watch you flaming him when he just wants you to own up that La Suer is not the 2nd coming of your 2nd amendment god!! Wake up people!

hoffmang
02-17-2010, 5:42 PM
A lot of people here are using AB2218 to accuse La Suer of "selling out Gunnies" as Kyla just said. Please look at all the facts before making statements like that. Here is Jay's post in response to these types of charges, right here on calguns:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=2056273#post2056273


Lum,

You kind of forgot to post the response in the same thread of an NRA board member to Jay's post.. Might have some bearing on the issue. :rolleyes:

-Gene

lumwilliam
02-17-2010, 6:16 PM
Am I showing extreme bias by thinking that we're beating AB2218 to death? From Jay's post, it sounds like he tried to rush through a bill that was intended to expand gun rights - with the help and inclusion of various gun organizations. Then there was some bumping of heads, maybe a few egos got involved, and it was determined that the bill was flawed, so Jay killed it. Jay maintained his A rating from the NRA and seems to be still well supported from those organizations. Since there's not much else on the internet about it, it looks to me like we here on Calguns are the only ones still playing the blame-game with it.

I once tried to play matchmaker with two acquaintances, only to find one was gay. My wife tells me I have no gay-dar. Maybe I lack Gun-dar too, but I just don't see a pattern of anti-gun activity from La Suer. I pasted his response to AB2218 above because I hoped it would shed some light on his thinking during the process, which I see as quite innocuous. I also haven't heard anyone level allegations that his other legislation betray a history of incompetence or anti-gun sentiment. I didn't read the entire thread though, and if there's a good zinger out there proving his statements to be lies, I'd love the link.

Alaric
02-17-2010, 6:49 PM
I would hope you could see the huge upside if a shall issue Sheriff of a county the size of San Diego were to win.

The CGF sees the DOWNSIDE to a shall issue sheriff in any major urban county in California. Orange and SD counties are very wealthy, very conservative, very pro-gun counties that I would guess probably make up at least 25% of the active Calguns membership and probably more in terms of the dollars donated to the CGF.

As long as CGF can point to our counties and say, "look, you need us, send us donations!" then they are doing well. It does not serve their cause, and arguably even, the cause of change at a state level, to have a pro-issue Sheriff in office in one of these counties. It hits the CGF cash-cow like a brick to the teeth.

I would like to believe that Gene, Bill, and the other principles of the CGF would wish us well and let us elect the Sheriff we want, but I can't hold it against them that they see this election as a threat to their fundraising efforts, and by extension, to the fight at a state level as well. For that reason, they will NEVER stop opposing the election of JLS or any pro-issue sheriff in any major county (except maybe Santa Clara, for obvious reasons). It just doesn't fit with their plan on the strategic level, the state level.

So if that's what we're faced with, opposition from within, then let's call it as it is. Let this be hear as a shot over the bow.

bwiese
02-17-2010, 6:56 PM
LaSeur's statements were fully refuted in detail by Joel Freidman, whom I (re)quoted above.

It's likely LaSeur was doing damage control cleanup - "OK we'll be publicly nice to you since we were ordered to make nice now from on high, but you have to clean this crap up or it comes up again.... we don't like our membership to have any risk of being made felons - besides, how do you think this plays outside CA.... NRA supports a hicap mag ban politician?"

2218 wasn't a fix-up bill, it was a cockup.

One issue with some "pro-gun" (not the quotes) orgs in CA - and some of the politicians they affiliate with - is they don't think about WTF they write or propose and don't contact attorneys to read their proposals.... and/or they don't change things even after attorneys contact them.

------------------------------------------------------

BTW, LaSeur's promise of "CCW for all" is likely very, very nonbright from a legal standpoint. You most likely can't throw 'good cause' out the window and rubber stamp things. Self-defense can be good cause, but his strident verbalization of this could lead to lots of drama from local DAs or the upcoming likely notably antigun AG.

He should be using codewords about 'much more rational issuance' and hope we're smart enough to read between the lines with a bit of nuance. Duffy seems to be doing better in that regard.

Alaric
02-17-2010, 7:09 PM
I can't believe I haven't asked this yet.

Gene and Bill, IIRC you are both residents of Santa Clara County. Correct?

You are both successful businessmen there too, IIRC. Those points established, do you both have CCW's? Do you desire to have CCW's?

hoffmang
02-17-2010, 7:23 PM
I can't believe I haven't asked this yet.

Gene and Bill, IIRC you are both residents of Santa Clara County. Correct?

You are both successful businessmen there too, IIRC. Those points established, do you both have CCW's? Do you desire to have CCW's?

Bill may be a resident of Santa Clara, but I am in San Mateo County. I need a carry license but I do not yet have one and it's unlikely I can get one in SMC even though most "hard" issuance counties would consider my cause good.

-Gene

Alaric
02-17-2010, 7:39 PM
Ouch, sorry to hear that Gene. After this thing with the EPA officer, you may be forever blacklisted from getting that CCW in your county.

It seems that most of us "need" a carry permit, but we can't get them despite our good cause.

tango-52
02-17-2010, 7:55 PM
BTW, LaSeur's promise of "CCW for all" is likely very, very nonbright from a legal standpoint. You most likely can't throw 'good cause' out the window and rubber stamp things. Self-defense can be good cause, but his strident verbalization of this could lead to lots of drama from local DAs or the upcoming likely notably antigun AG.

He should be using codewords about 'much more rational issuance' and hope we're smart enough to read between the lines with a bit of nuance. Duffy seems to be doing better in that regard.

So, this would be your opinon regardless of which candidate was saying it? I only ask because in Orange County, Hunt is taking the same approach as LaSuer ("Personal Protection is adequate Good Cause"), whereas Hunter is taking the approach you appear to be advocating (nuanced Good Cause to avoid trouble with the DOJ). I don't have a problem with nuance. How hard is it to say that you travel alone at night and are concerned for your safety. :rolleyes:

As I stated earlier, my main concern is that in both Orange and San Diego Counties, we exit the Primaries having taken the appointed incumbents out of the race. Everything we get after that is gravy.

N6ATF
02-18-2010, 11:01 AM
LaSuer is having a drive through signature drive TODAY so that he does not have to pay a filing fee to run for sheriff. It is going to be held:

Thursday February 18, 2010
Where: Scottish Rite Center - directions
Time: 4 - 7 PM

Even if you don't support him no one should have to pay $2000 to run for office.

tango-52
02-18-2010, 11:27 AM
The address for the signature drive thru is:

1895 Camino del Rio South, Mission Valley, San Diego

Steyrlp10
02-18-2010, 11:44 AM
To the OP -- best of luck -- I admire you for putting in an effort to do something. Being from the Bay Area, I'm not familiar with the details in San Diego, but am catching up by reading all the other posts. Stay the course :)

mike_schwartz@mail.com
02-18-2010, 8:30 PM
A sheriff has to be pro-gun for more reasons other than CCWs. CCWs is the most obvious, but the sheriff also gives a ton of adivce when it comes to county laws on shooting and ranges. They also enforce laws and do things like set up task forces to investigate gun shows, etc. Or if tehy are pro-gun they choose to NOT do those things. Sheriffs can stand for and against gun laws.

Just wanted to open it up a bit. I originally I was interested in the sheriff race because of CCWs. I can tell you all now...having a pro-gun sheriff is so important to our cause.

N6ATF
03-08-2010, 10:46 PM
Per Jay's blog:
http://sheriffjay.org/blog/archives/432
I turned in 2008 signatures for the Petition In Lieu of Filing Fee. Of those, 1,692 were good, 316 were bad. $1,762.04 filing fee is due as opposed to the required $2,185.04. However, we have until March 12th at 5:00 pm to make up the bad signatures (316). If you have any petitions which have not been turned in yet, we can replace the 316 bad signatures with more signatures on petitions…PLEASE mail them ASAP to “Sheirff Jay” P O Box 2115 La Mesa, CA 91943

Duffy turned in 852, of which 662 were good; 190 bad.

Gore turned only 40, the required amount needed to be placed on the ballot, and paid the entire fee. He collected NO In Lieu SIGNATURES!!!!!!

Ruff turned in none; not event the required 40 signatures.