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View Full Version : Can we own Saiga shotguns here?


SVTNate
01-13-2006, 3:25 PM
I am new to shotguns, and long guns in general. I know that we don't have an "approved list" for long guns, but I was curious if the Saiga box-mag shotties are legal here, and I'd also like to know how I can determine what's legal for sale in CA and what isn't.

grammaton76
01-13-2006, 3:35 PM
Saiga's are listed specifically on the California assault weapons list.

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/

Charliegone
01-13-2006, 4:17 PM
Probably not or it would be very difficult to convince the doj and a ffl dealer otherwise.

socalguns
01-13-2006, 10:30 PM
The shotgun isn't on the list

housefull
01-18-2006, 1:41 PM
The shotgun isn't on the list
But the discription of a Saiga clearly falls into the "detachable/box magazine"
In other words, not legal here in Kalifornistan. :mad:

MrTuffPaws
01-18-2006, 2:50 PM
But the discription of a Saiga clearly falls into the "detachable/box magazine"
In other words, not legal here in Kalifornistan. :mad:

Actually, you can own a detachable mag shotgun, but it would have to be pump, lever, or bolt action

Er, just what DRH said.....

socalguns
01-19-2006, 12:11 AM
DRH already mentioned that.

paradox
01-19-2006, 2:48 PM
... for a mossberg with a Knoxx sidewinder kit on it for twice as much as the saiga.

socalguns
01-19-2006, 4:13 PM
Actually >8D the saiga-12 could easily be turned into a pump action (more like pull, but definetly not semi-auto)

Otony
01-19-2006, 6:29 PM
Lets simplify things, shall we?

NO

socalguns
01-19-2006, 11:12 PM
This are already simple. NO

Mesa Tactical
01-20-2006, 5:33 AM
... for a mossberg with a Knoxx sidewinder kit on it for twice as much as the saiga.

Or a Valtro PM-5. I have heard, however, the US distributor of the Valtro doesn't want to sell it to civilians. But I haven't actually called them to find out.

rssslvr
01-20-2006, 1:03 PM
they say on their web site that they sell them here and list a couple dealers
http://www.valtrousa.com/shotguns.html

saki302
01-21-2006, 2:57 AM
The PM5 is not a semi auto, but a pump, which makes it legal in CA.

Why use a box mag anyways? It's huge, and holds less rounds than a good tube mag under the barrel (my benelli holds 7 in the mag, one in the follower, and one in the chamber if you finagle it right).

you can get a shotty speedloader and relaosd the tubes just as fast- the only advantage with the box is you can change shot types quickly. Unless you're a SWAT officer who needs to go from lethal to non-lethal quickly, this isn't mcuh of an issue.

If you're buying because it looks cool, well, then.. :D

-Dave

AntiBubba 2.1
01-25-2006, 5:59 PM
It looks awkward.

Hopi
01-25-2006, 10:20 PM
It looks awkward.

This one sure doesn't look awkward...
http://www.valtrousa.com/shotgunphotos/pm5/pm5withfoldingstocklarge.jpg

saki302
01-26-2006, 3:05 AM
It looks fine and all, but what really bugs me is that it *still* has the under-barrel magazine tube which supports the pump, only now it does nothing. You would lose the bulkiness of the mag while retaining the same capacity using a barrel-length magazine tube.

Now, if you could make the gun use BOTH a detachable mag AND a traditional magazine tube, and have it selectable on the fly, that would be pretty darn interesting!

I don't care for the solid top-folding stocks much either, as they make the gun even less handy (like the one pictured, or the Benelli M3 folder). Either a side folder, or a flat-folding top folder (remington factory folder) are much more practical designs to make the shotgun smaller.

They do get some points for making it look 'evil' though. :D

-Dave

PS- all you younger kids out there, pick up a good OLD shotgun and feel the action. A good Winchester model 12 will really open your eyes about what a pump shotgun should feel like. My old M12 even takes down for storage- not bad for a near 80 year old gun.

Mesa Tactical
01-26-2006, 5:28 AM
I don't care for the solid top-folding stocks much either, as they make the gun even less handy (like the one pictured, or the Benelli M3 folder). Either a side folder, or a flat-folding top folder (remington factory folder) are much more practical designs to make the shotgun smaller.

For a while we were interested in making a collapsing AR stock system for the Valtro. We even borrowed a weapon and had a 3D dataset made of it. But until the US rep gets more market share here, we won't be doing anything.

Apparently the Valtro is selling briskly in Canada, but we can't ship there without an export license.

They do get some points for making it look 'evil' though.

That was kind of our feeling too. We wanted to make it look even more evil.

jessegpresley
01-26-2006, 8:06 AM
they say on their web site that they sell them here and list a couple dealers
http://www.valtrousa.com/shotguns.html

..until you call those dealers who will tell you they ain't seen one in a long time.

Evidentally there are 12 round mags available to law enforcement and military.

jessegpresley
01-26-2006, 8:15 AM
It looks fine and all, but what really bugs me is that it *still* has the under-barrel magazine tube which supports the pump

How would you pump the shotgun without that? Seems like its purpose there is quite justified. It needs a rail to slide back and forth on.

The newer Valtros feature a side folding stock, although I prefer the top folding one because it's just cooler looking and more novel.

http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~jhipwell/images/folded.jpg

Maybe I seem protective of the PM5, but that's just 'cause I pick one up from my FFL today:-)