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CSTactical
02-08-2010, 4:04 PM
I just read this...one more reason for us to love Starbucks:

Article- Starbucks: Bring On The Guns (http://www.cstactical.com/discussions/7-The-Second-Amendment-Fight/17-The-Second-Amendment-Fight/152-Starbucks-Bring-on-the-guns.html#p194)

liketoshoot
02-08-2010, 4:15 PM
The Brady Campaign has sent e-mails to its approximately 180,000 members nationwide suggesting that they e-mail Starbucks asking the coffee giant to create an anti-gun policy.

An active participant in the Bay Area Open Carry chapter hailed Starbucks' approach.

"We definitely applaud Starbucks for allowing law-abiding citizens to defend themselves and we will continue to patronize them as long as they do," said Brad Huffman, who is also a National Rifle Association-certified instructor and member of Bay Area Open Carry, which lists 610 members on its Facebook page.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

So we should send them (Starbucks) our thanks too.

tenpercentfirearms
02-08-2010, 7:34 PM
"I don't want someone who carries a gun into a store to be making life-and-death decisions. I don't think it's safe for them to be there"What kind of stupid comment is this? So if I don't bring a gun then I can make life and death decisions? When is a good time to make life and death decisions? What is a life and death decision? What kind of espresso shot to order? Idiot.

I just went to the Brady Center website to find out how to contact Starbucks and thank them for being such a great company. LOL. The Brady people must have known we would contact them too as I have to sign their petition and they will contact them.

Here is the info.

http://www.starbucks.com/customer/contact_forms.asp?nav=3e

I used the tab "store environment".

Let's let them know the Brady's don't spend as much on coffee as you guys do! I don't drink the stuff.

My e-mail to them.

I would like to give Starbucks corporate praise in their recent decision to recognize the rights of their customers to keep and bear arms in compliance with federal, state, and local ordnances. Rest assured my dollars and the sales from other liberty minded individuals all across this great country dwarf the minuscule amounts that anti-gun fascists could even dream of spending at your store. Have confidence that these weak minded, anti-gunners couldn't fathom giving up their Starbucks because a law abiding citizen might happen to carry a legal firearm into your business in accordance with local, state, and federal laws. However, pro-liberty minded citizens all across this country would gladly give up even their most treasured Decaf Espresso Roast in the interests of freedom. By respecting my right to choose, I will definitely choose Starbucks just as I have before. Thank you.

tenpercentfirearms
02-08-2010, 7:56 PM
Hey what do you know, CPK's info!

http://www.customerpulse.net:8080/cpkcontactus/welcome.jsp

Due to your corporate decision to discriminate against law abiding citizens who legally carry firearms in public according to federal, state, and local laws, I will choose not to dine at your store until your policy changes. You can be confident that the hard earned dollars of liberty activists across the country dwarf the minuscule business that weak-minded fascists will provide you after this decision. I will gladly take my legally concealed handgun and dine in other establishments that don't offer victim disarmament zones to their patrons. May the very freedom to choose that this country was founded upon be your downfall as your company is disregarded when it comes to finding a place to dine and that liberty conscious establishments flourish with the hard earned capital of true defenders of the American ideal.

7222 Hawker
02-08-2010, 8:14 PM
Good to hear. Between the UOCers and the cops at Starbucks, it will probably be the safest place on the planet.

AEC1
02-08-2010, 8:18 PM
I guess I can go to starbucks again!

H2H
02-08-2010, 8:20 PM
:)


http://i45.tinypic.com/i73dd0.gif

RudyN
02-08-2010, 8:26 PM
I like the new Starbucks logo. :D By the way I also sent a e-mail to them in support of their current policy.

technique
02-08-2010, 8:30 PM
:)


http://i45.tinypic.com/i73dd0.gif

I got me one of those, as soon as they settle on the final design.

H2H
02-08-2010, 8:35 PM
yep, me too ;)

(props to gacMan lf.net)

chrisw
02-08-2010, 8:41 PM
While I really hope that Starbucks is refusing to cave to the bradys (and sticking to it) this article from the war on guns blogspot makes me wonder.....

http://www.examiner.com/x-25069-Cheyenne-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m2d6-Starbucks--Not-so-fast

Eat Dirt
02-08-2010, 8:56 PM
:)


http://i45.tinypic.com/i73dd0.gif

That's too Cool

tenpercentfirearms
02-08-2010, 8:57 PM
While I really hope that Starbucks is taking refusing to cave to the bradys (and stick to it) this article from the war on guns blogspot makes me wonder.....

http://www.examiner.com/x-25069-Cheyenne-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m2d6-Starbucks--Not-so-fast

LOL. Yeah, if I were Starbucks and decided to float a no-guns policy, I would probably try it in Wyoming. That makes sense...not at all.

bomb_on_bus
02-08-2010, 9:05 PM
Now thats what I'm talking about!

The starbucks I frequent by my house is more then happy to cater to all sorts of LEO's from various agencies. Hell sometimes I have seen at least 2 tables full of officers with guns in open sight and not one word from any of the patrons.

Every once in a while I will strike up a gun conversation with some of the officers. Its also nice to know that there isn't any liberal douchebaggery going on at starbucks corporate offices (at least against the 2nd amendment).

:D

IrishPirate
02-08-2010, 9:39 PM
I'm glad Starbucks has taken a stance against the Brady Campaign....but what I really hope, is that the pro gun lobbyists take note that the Brady Bunch has taken an outright stance against Law Abiding Gun Owners by asking businesses to ban guns. They claim to be an organization to stop gun violence, and claim that they aren't after legal gun owners guns, but we all know better, and this proves it!!! this should grab them by where their balls should be, and show the country that the Brady Campaign is only out to rid the country of guns, not make it safer. It's purely a political party only out to make money and save itself, not save the children.

microwaveguy
02-08-2010, 10:32 PM
:)


http://i45.tinypic.com/i73dd0.gif

So where do I get the t-shirt :jump:

CSTactical
02-08-2010, 10:53 PM
So where do I get the t-shirt :jump:

I agree!

Mike @ CST

Thrasher416
02-09-2010, 12:26 AM
So where do I get the t-shirt :jump:

I'm pretty sure that logo originated at the Brady site, I guess you could try asking them for one. :rolleyes:

There is another thread around here where a Calguns member actually contacted Starbucks about the logo, who responded in turn that they might look into sueing the Brady Bunch for copyright infringement. :43:


Edit: here it is

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=266535&page=5
post #46

Well, I msg'd a friend of mine to get an email addy, cuz I hate using forms.

I called the 800# instead and spent some time on the phone with a CSR. I explained what the brady org was trying to do, and my concern about it, and that they already had "victories" with CPK and Peet's Coffee. He took comprensive notes to forward on.

Then, I did one better. On the brady link, they have a munged up version of the *bux logo.

In 2000 a comic artist was sued by *bux for similarly using their logo. It was fair use, but they did not care much for is interpretation as "Consumer Whore". Here's his rambling:
http://www.kierondwyer.com/LCD/GREED.htm

Anyway, I explained to them that while I thought this was unfair as fair use is protected, I stated that I expected *bux to be highly consistent here and to likewise sue the brady org to cease using the logo as well. He entered the comments and sent them off to internal security for review while we were still on the line.

Steyr_223
02-09-2010, 12:36 AM
:)


http://i45.tinypic.com/i73dd0.gif

I like it!

:)

CSTactical
02-09-2010, 9:38 AM
Cool Avatar Steyr_223's.

Mike @ CST

NorCalMama
02-09-2010, 10:20 AM
LOL. Yeah, if I were Starbucks and decided to float a no-guns policy, I would probably try it in Wyoming. That makes sense...not at all.

It actually DOES make sense. Wyoming is a low population state, not to mention, they could already easily get away with it in places like here, so they are trying it in a more gun friendly state to see if they can actually get away with it.

From the article-
http://www.examiner.com/x-25069-Cheyenne-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m2d6-Starbucks--Not-so-fast
The problem - a member of Wyoming Gun Owners stated:
“After I purchased my beverage I was asked to remove my firearm from the premises”.



the store manager "Matthew" at the Casper location, he stated that "unless you are Law Enforcement no firearms are allowed in the store"

The Manager also stated that Starbucks corporate office called him but only to verify his conversation with he had with me not to assert policy, we can assume by the corporate office actions that they have intentions of banning firearms.


I HOPE that Starbucks isn't putting up a front with appearing to be RKBA friendly when they have something working behind the scenes.

Deadbolt
02-09-2010, 10:39 AM
I guess I can go to starbucks again!

:rofl: no kidding!


also - just sent this :


I am very glad your corporation supports the 2nd amendment rights of your patrons. Your company is a shining example of not only the American dream (building an empire from the ground up) but is now a beacon of logical thinking in times where mob mentality and fear has riddled so many. I applaud your stance on allowing your patrons to maintain their 2nd amendment rights and unloaded open carry on your premises. Well done!

bodger
02-09-2010, 11:04 AM
It actually DOES make sense. Wyoming is a low population state, not to mention, they could already easily get away with it in places like here, so they are trying it in a more gun friendly state to see if they can actually get away with it.


I HOPE that Starbucks isn't putting up a front with appearing to be RKBA friendly when they have something working behind the scenes.


I agree. I think Starbucks final decision and position on this will be based on revenue and their image, not a stand on 2A rights.

bootcamp
02-09-2010, 11:15 AM
I think the whole meeting at a coffee shop while open carrying is dorky, personally, jmho. Why not open carry at a working class fast food joint, or at your local safeway or luckys. Wouldn't it be great to see 50-100 guys walk in to a safeway and all do their grocery shopping there? Or a walmart? Parade into a big Walmart to buy ammo. Now you're making a statement!

I support you guys, but drinking coffee like a bunch of dorks is kind weak. Try to do it as a group at the Milpitas or Mountain View Walmart to buy ammo for your open carried gun and stand outside as a group and load the magazines in the parking lot! Now you're really making the statement!

6172crew
02-09-2010, 12:15 PM
I think the whole meeting at a coffee shop while open carrying is dorky, personally, jmho. Why not open carry at a working class fast food joint, or at your local safeway or luckys. Wouldn't it be great to see 50-100 guys walk in to a safeway and all do their grocery shopping there? Or a walmart? Parade into a big Walmart to buy ammo. Now you're making a statement!

I support you guys, but drinking coffee like a bunch of dorks is kind weak. Try to do it as a group at the Milpitas or Mountain View Walmart to buy ammo for your open carried gun and stand outside as a group and load the magazines in the parking lot! Now you're really making the statement!

Wasn't it just a few days ago that a guy walked into walmart, bought some ammo and started shooting people?

Not such a good idea imo.

rero360
02-09-2010, 12:33 PM
I think he only shot himself but I could be wrong

Draankol
02-09-2010, 12:33 PM
+1 for Starbucks!

Crossed Peet's and CPK off the list, permanently....

loather
02-09-2010, 12:39 PM
I support you guys, but drinking coffee like a bunch of dorks is kind weak. Try to do it as a group at the Milpitas or Mountain View Walmart to buy ammo for your open carried gun and stand outside as a group and load the magazines in the parking lot! Now you're really making the statement!

'Cause that won't terrify people. I thought the purpose of the open carry movement was to help garner acceptance and understanding from the public. Doing this, at this time, just simply isn't smart and *will* result in the opposite response. Don't get me wrong -- while I don't participate for personal reasons -- I support the OC movement in principle. I also support CGF's stand-down stance on the matter. The only thing this will do is cause a bunch of squad cars to come screeching into the parking lot because a bunch of terrified customers called the cops saying a bunch of people with guns were loading them in front of walmart.

Go ahead, stick your hand in that alligator's mouth. See what happens.

Nose Nuggets
02-09-2010, 2:53 PM
i think you are all crowing a bit to happily at a what appears to be a reflex PR response to big gun grabbing lobby. all they said was is we defer to local and federal laws. that's not pro or anti. they still have the legal right to refuse service to anyone they want for any reason, and if they did, it would not be going against local and federal law. so, lets not count our chickens yet, eh?

its still hilarious to see this backfire on the brady campaign, though.

bootcamp
02-09-2010, 2:58 PM
Go ahead, stick your hand in that alligator's mouth. See what happens.


LOL, i'm just saying....

I understand we want to gain acceptance. Totally understandable, but why limit it to Starbucks? I threw Walmart out there to get the point across. I know it ain't happenin'. But it would be nice to inform others out there rather than just coffee drinkin' tree huggin hippy luvin socials. I'd rather inform the pro-gun groups out there that don't know any better. Your hunters, your farm workers, your fishermen, your iron workers, your industrial workers.

You're not gonna get any love from the sail boater who like to drink wine and eat carrots and cheese while sailing merrily around the SF Bay.

I'm hoping I make some sort of sense.

Diabolus
02-09-2010, 3:09 PM
I only glanced at the article, but they mentioned the Brady Campaign reaching out to its 180,000 members.

180K? Thats it? Am I missing anything?

Thrasher416
02-10-2010, 12:42 AM
i think you are all crowing a bit to happily at a what appears to be a reflex PR response to big gun grabbing lobby. all they said was is we defer to local and federal laws. that's not pro or anti. they still have the legal right to refuse service to anyone they want for any reason, and if they did, it would not be going against local and federal law. so, lets not count our chickens yet, eh?

its still hilarious to see this backfire on the brady campaign, though.


You're right, if you read the Starbuck's statement, they said that the company "defers to state and federal laws concerning weapons." They're not pro or against 2A, they just want to stay out of the politics entirely by not doing anything about open carry, which is fortunately what WE want.

It's simply a business decision, since the only people who care about this are us gunnies and the Anti-2A crowd they probably don't think its a big deal.

Unless their sales mysteriously go up as more and more gun owners start buying their coffee:43:

pullnshoot25
02-10-2010, 1:15 AM
I think the whole meeting at a coffee shop while open carrying is dorky, personally, jmho. Why not open carry at a working class fast food joint, or at your local safeway or luckys. Wouldn't it be great to see 50-100 guys walk in to a safeway and all do their grocery shopping there? Or a walmart? Parade into a big Walmart to buy ammo. Now you're making a statement!

I support you guys, but drinking coffee like a bunch of dorks is kind weak. Try to do it as a group at the Milpitas or Mountain View Walmart to buy ammo for your open carried gun and stand outside as a group and load the magazines in the parking lot! Now you're really making the statement!

Check behind your ears, they are probably still wet.

Everything you have listed has pretty much been done already. I could cite examples, but I will just let you read my blog and use the search function (it is in my sig line)

wildhawker
02-10-2010, 1:22 AM
I only glanced at the article, but they mentioned the Brady Campaign reaching out to its 180,000 members.

180K? Thats it? Am I missing anything?

That might be their email list, but it's a gross exaggeration of their actual active membership. IIRC, the first reading at Oakland City Council drew all of *3*.

Henktermaat
02-11-2010, 2:34 PM
Hooray for Starbucks!
http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv67/henktermaat/ingo/delicious-n-safe.png

maddoggie13
02-11-2010, 3:18 PM
just had coffee in starbucks with my g26...mmmmmmm

Nose Nuggets
02-11-2010, 3:34 PM
You're right, if you read the Starbuck's statement, they said that the company "defers to state and federal laws concerning weapons." They're not pro or against 2A, they just want to stay out of the politics entirely by not doing anything about open carry, which is fortunately what WE want.

It's simply a business decision, since the only people who care about this are us gunnies and the Anti-2A crowd they probably don't think its a big deal.

Unless their sales mysteriously go up as more and more gun owners start buying their coffee:43:

Conversely, if they see numbers drop they will not hesitate to ban open carry at all locations.

pitchbaby
02-11-2010, 3:57 PM
just had coffee in starbucks with my g26...mmmmmmm

Too bad there isn't a "Like" button here, like we have on Facebook.... hehe

7x57
02-11-2010, 4:28 PM
The story hit newsbusters (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/sarah-knoploh/2010/02/11/coffee-and-second-amendment-don-t-mix-according-alternet).

7x57

1BigPea
02-11-2010, 4:44 PM
The story hit newsbusters (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/sarah-knoploh/2010/02/11/coffee-and-second-amendment-don-t-mix-according-alternet).

7x57

Nice...

This is great...


Liliana Segura, of AlterNet, painted a bleak picture and wrote, “So you're at your neighborhood Starbucks, maybe with your kids, and you notice a man sitting at the next table with a revolver strapped to his waist. The man next to him has a pistol. In fact, you realize as you look around, there's a table full of gun-toting customers just a few feet away, sipping coffee and doing nothing to conceal their deadly weapons. Aside from steering clear -- or else getting the hell out of there – what can an unarmed citizen do?”

Well, not much. (Except maybe relax and consider that the establishment you’re in is at the moment quite safe from armed robbery and other violent crime. Go ahead, buy Junior another triple mocha latte.)

7x57
02-11-2010, 4:56 PM
Nice...

This is great...

Yes. I have been trying to pay attention and the conservative media appears to be more favorable to real gun rights with fewer compromises than I remember.

7x57

Mulay El Raisuli
02-12-2010, 7:12 AM
Yes. I have been trying to pay attention and the conservative media appears to be more favorable to real gun rights with fewer compromises than I remember.

7x57


I'm not going to take credit for it, but this greater level of acceptance is because of the Open Carry movement.


The Raisuli

7x57
02-12-2010, 7:15 AM
I'm not going to take credit for it, but this greater level of acceptance is because of the Open Carry movement.


The evidence is all to the contrary. It seems to be more or less in spite of it.

7x57

CaptMike
02-12-2010, 8:35 AM
Hey what do you know, CPK's info!

http://www.customerpulse.net:8080/cpkcontactus/welcome.jsp

just left CPK this:

Good Morning. I have been a long time patron of the CPK in Glendale Calif. I have enjoyed the food and the atmosphere. I have made it a point to take my family of five to dinner every saturday evening to CPK because of the great service and great food. Unfortunately, I will have to stop my family tradition due to the fact that CPK has decided to prevent law abiding citizens from entering your establishment. I read an article that stated that CPK has decided to bar patrons that have decided to legally carry an unloaded firearm into your establishment. I am saddened to see that my favorite family restaurant has decided that it does not support the 2nd amendment of the bill of rights. I would suggest that CPK should concentrate on provided a great meal instead of interpreting the U.S. constitution. The Supreme Court has the duty to interpret the law. I will not spend my money where my rights are not respected. good day.

dont think it will do any good, but I know I am not taking my family there any more. stay safe everyone

GrizzlyGuy
02-12-2010, 8:57 AM
FYI, this Hitler Reacts! - Open Carry on Project Runway video (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=269152) has some humor related to the whole Peets vs. Starbucks controversy. The evil European villain prefers Starbucks coffee, but is stuck with Peets due to all the good gun owners hanging out at Starbucks. :D

hellraiser
02-12-2010, 12:48 PM
cool...im really glad to hear about starbucks stance on the issue. As a long time loyal customer to them id hate to hear a reason to stop going there.

i will be sending them a email shortly...

CSTactical
02-12-2010, 6:49 PM
Some said now they know what they are going to get their wife for Valentines day.

Mike @ CST

Mulay El Raisuli
02-13-2010, 7:00 AM
The evidence is all to the contrary. It seems to be more or less in spite of it.

7x57


I disagree. The issue is brought up, the MSM reacts with horror (:eek:). But, after a while, they start being fair & balanced. I must presume that this is because of We the People, instead of reflecting that horror, actually like the idea. Well, the People wouldn't have had the opportunity to reflect/not reflect that horror UNLESS the UOC movement put the issue in front of them.

Philosophically, this also goes with my thoughts in re all the recent 1A cases. I don't have a problem with the "Big Boys" pouring money into TV ads & such. If the facts (ALL of them) are put in front of the the People, they'll make the right decisions. Here, in spite of everything, a small leaderless movement worked to get their version of "the word" out & is actually succeeding.

That's the "evidence" I see.


The Raisuli

johnny_22
02-13-2010, 8:42 AM
"Starbuck's decision on guns is flawed"

Writer plans to go to Peet's from now on.

No favorable letters printed.

http://www.mercurynews.com/search/ci_14392721?nclick_check=1

VW*Mike
02-13-2010, 2:04 PM
Funny. I wrote letters to Starbucks, Peets and CPK. The only one I heard back from was Starbucks saying basically their only policy is to abide by local laws...

I use to patronize the later two, that will now stop. I mentioned this to them in my letters, I am just one person, but piss off enough people, and they add up.

7x57
02-13-2010, 2:11 PM
That's the "evidence" I see.


I was not talking about the dying oligopolists called the MSM--I mean the various conservative web-based news sites. And the message is uniform--they support the 2A, including the less PC parts about defense against an oppressive government as the last resort when lawful means have failed, military-pattern carbines, and so on.

But when OC comes up these same friendly writers tend to say "what?!? are you guys trying to ruin everything?!?"

At this point, the evidence is so clear about what OC does in CA that I regard it more of a neurotic disorder than a mistaken position. Sorry to be so blunt, but it's my boy's future OCers are screwing up.

7x57

MT1
02-13-2010, 2:27 PM
Just threw a mostly full bag of Peet's Coffee into the trash can - good stuff, but I won't be supporting them anymore....it goes against my nature but I will now buy coffee from the mega giant vs. the local shop.


Don't take this post as my approval of open carry though ;) (at this time)

VW*Mike
02-13-2010, 7:25 PM
Just threw a mostly full bag of Peet's Coffee into the trash can - good stuff, but I won't be supporting them anymore....it goes against my nature but I will now buy coffee from the mega giant vs. the local shop.


Don't take this post as my approval of open carry though ;) (at this time)

I won't patronize them either, but if I already paid for the coffee........... :p might as well drink it.

MT1
02-13-2010, 11:24 PM
I won't patronize them either, but if I already paid for the coffee........... :p might as well drink it.

Believe me, I contemplated that one for a while :laugh:

Mulay El Raisuli
02-14-2010, 5:30 AM
I was not talking about the dying oligopolists called the MSM--I mean the various conservative web-based news sites. And the message is uniform--they support the 2A, including the less PC parts about defense against an oppressive government as the last resort when lawful means have failed, military-pattern carbines, and so on.

But when OC comes up these same friendly writers tend to say "what?!? are you guys trying to ruin everything?!?"

At this point, the evidence is so clear about what OC does in CA that I regard it more of a neurotic disorder than a mistaken position. Sorry to be so blunt, but it's my boy's future OCers are screwing up.

7x57


But that's not evidence that you cite. That's opinion. What the evidence shows is that when the "Open Carry Movement" started, the MSM (reflecting the attitudes of their viewers/readers) reacted with horror. :eek: But as time went on, that 'horror' became less & less. They started to actually talk to us. They started to actually air the views of people who were not freaked out by the sight of a man with a gun. What this (the evidence) shows is that the trend is leading away from horror.

The importance of this is not that we should re-direct our efforts toward the legislature. Certainly not in this state. No, the importance of this is exactly as I've been saying; that we have to educate our fellow citizens so that when our efforts in court succeed, they'll accept the suddenly increased numbers of guns in their midst.

Example: Our forebears in the Civil Rights struggle of 50 years ago. The though of black people at the Woolworth's lunch counter was shocking. Yet, people got used to the sight of it once it started happening & now it doesn't raise a fuss at all. Yet, the sit-ins weren't a method of of getting the "Jim Crow" laws repealed by the legislatures of the Deep South. That aspect was fought in the federal courts. The sit-ins were a way of getting people used to (accepting of) blacks sitting at the Woolworth's after they had forced the issue in the federal courts.

What the evidence shows is that this is how its working out for us. The change in 'attitude' in the MSM reflects the change in attitude of the man in the street. The proper course of action then is not to stop the UOC events, but to increase the numbers of them. We accomplished nothing useful with the stand down. That's just the way it is. No sense is continuing to back a bad play.


The Raisuli

Buckeye Dan
02-14-2010, 4:43 PM
It actually DOES make sense. Wyoming is a low population state, not to mention, they could already easily get away with it in places like here, so they are trying it in a more gun friendly state to see if they can actually get away with it.

From the article-
http://www.examiner.com/x-25069-Cheyenne-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m2d6-Starbucks--Not-so-fast







I HOPE that Starbucks isn't putting up a front with appearing to be RKBA friendly when they have something working behind the scenes.

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-25069-Cheyenne-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m2d9-Starbucks-gets-a-thumbsup-in-Wyoming

Good news! Gun owners are welcome at the Casper Starbucks.

A Starbucks Representative contacted me and said "there has not been any policy change and Starbucks follows the laws of the state and municipalities they are located in"

They also said "this has been a misunderstanding and apologies go out to any customers this may have inconvenienced".

It is encouraging that Starbucks has taken this stand in light of the pressures being put on them to do otherwise.

Say thanks, by patronizing Starbucks today!

---------------------------------------------
I guess they decided that alienating a potential customer base of roughly 80 million people was a bad idea. Take that Brady Bunch!!!

7x57
02-14-2010, 5:40 PM
But that's not evidence that you cite. That's opinion.

As is yours.

But much as I enjoy some of your posts, you're going to have to convince me that you're not committed to OC no matter what the evidence might be before I will have any interest in discussing it at length.

I guess I need to go dig out my OCD post from a while ago.

7x57

Turbinator
02-15-2010, 12:30 AM
This is pretty good on Starbucks' part. If they didn't like OC, they would have outright said they don't allow it. However, they have to be careful about angering all of the anti-gun customers they have, so they have to give a politically correct watered down response, saying that they will follow all local / state / federal laws. Good move on their part. But the message is clear - they are ok with it. :)

Turby

GrizzlyGuy
02-15-2010, 8:21 AM
I disagree. The issue is brought up, the MSM reacts with horror (:eek:). But, after a while, they start being fair & balanced. I must presume that this is because of We the People, instead of reflecting that horror, actually like the idea. Well, the People wouldn't have had the opportunity to reflect/not reflect that horror UNLESS the UOC movement put the issue in front of them.

Philosophically, this also goes with my thoughts in re all the recent 1A cases. I don't have a problem with the "Big Boys" pouring money into TV ads & such. If the facts (ALL of them) are put in front of the the People, they'll make the right decisions. Here, in spite of everything, a small leaderless movement worked to get their version of "the word" out & is actually succeeding.

That's the "evidence" I see.


In terms of evidence, have you taken the time to read through the comments from the general public that appear in response to the MSM online news articles? That's about the best data we have (short of a credible opinion poll) to use in gauging the general public's response and attitude regarding UOC. That information is relevant tactically and strategically for appropriately planning the next steps (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3722081&postcount=9). Control theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_theory) is relevant in public relations as well as engineering:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Feedback_loop_with_descriptions.svg/400px-Feedback_loop_with_descriptions.svg.png

In an engineering context, having reviewed the comments, I'd have to characterize the current types of activities as creating a system with negative damping. Here's an example of a system like that:

HxTZ446tbzE

Mulay El Raisuli
02-15-2010, 8:35 AM
As is yours.


Not quite. My claim that that the MSM has altered its tune (its opinion) isn't an opinion. Its a fact.


But much as I enjoy some of your posts, you're going to have to convince me that you're not committed to OC no matter what the evidence might be before I will have any interest in discussing it at length.


This confuses me a bit. In hopeful answer, I'll say that for the variety of reasons stated before, I am rock-solid committed that LOC should be the Minimum Constitutional Standard. I am not committed to LOC to the point where I ignore evidence. I'd just like to see some.


I guess I need to go dig out my OCD post from a while ago.

7x57


Should I look forward to that?


The Raisuli

P.S. You only enjoy some of my posts? :)

gose
02-16-2010, 1:51 PM
Just got this reply from Starbucks (sent appreciative email last week)

Hello,
Thanks for contacting Starbucks Coffee Company.

For Starbucks, the safety of our customers and partners is a paramount concern. We have existing security protocols in place to handle situations related to safety in our stores. We will continue to adhere closely to local, state and federal laws and the counsel of law enforcement regarding this issue.

We appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective.

Warm Regards,
Colleen N.
Customer Relations

N6ATF
02-21-2010, 11:36 AM
Everyone save your reciepts.

I'm going to get a P.O. box and collect them and pictures to send to Peets.

:nopity:

dadoody
03-03-2010, 5:26 AM
hmm. I guess I'll give more business to them again (like they even need it)

Ricky James
03-03-2010, 6:00 AM
I'd like to experiment with this at one of my Starbucks, but I live in Davis. That might not be productive at all.

Nodda Duma
03-03-2010, 6:56 AM
Wife saw this on MSN yesterday

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35686483

SEATTLE - Coffee chain Starbucks Inc. is sticking to its policy of letting customers carry guns where it's legal and said it does not want to be put in the middle of a larger gun-control debate.

The statement stems from recent incidents when gun owners have walked into Starbucks and other businesses to test state laws that allow gun owners to carry weapons openly in public places. Gun control advocates have protested.

Starbucks' backing of its policy comes ahead of a press conference on Wednesday by The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence near Seattle's Pike Place Market, where the first Starbucks cafe opened.


The organization has circulated a petition that has more than 28,000 signatures demanding that Starbucks "offer espresso shots, not gunshots" and declare its coffeehouses "gun-free zones."

Businesses can choose to ban guns from their premises. Starbucks said Tuesday that it complies with local laws in the 43 states that have open-carry weapon laws.

Not to do so, the chain said, would make the chain "require our partners to ask law abiding customers to leave our stores, putting our partners in an unfair and potentially unsafe position."

It said security measures are in place for any "threatening situation" that might occur in stores.

Starbucks asked both gun enthusiasts and gun-control advocates "to refrain from putting Starbucks or our partners into the middle of this divisive issue."

-Jason

JDay
03-03-2010, 7:27 AM
Just got this reply from Starbucks (sent appreciative email last week)

Hello,
Thanks for contacting Starbucks Coffee Company.

For Starbucks, the safety of our customers and partners is a paramount concern. We have existing security protocols in place to handle situations related to safety in our stores. We will continue to adhere closely to local, state and federal laws and the counsel of law enforcement regarding this issue.

We appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective.

Warm Regards,
Colleen N.
Customer Relations

I got the same reply.

N6ATF
03-03-2010, 9:51 AM
Wife saw this on MSN yesterday

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35686483

It said security measures are in place for any "threatening situation" that might occur in stores.

I keep seeing this... what are these security measures? Do they have hot coffee criminal suppression? A turret on the ceiling with a remote video laser-assisted aiming system?

"Give me all your money!"
/motor whirrs, beep beep beep, pshhhhh
"Oh god it burns! It burns!"

GrizzlyGuy
03-03-2010, 10:14 AM
I keep seeing this... what are these security measures? Do they have hot coffee criminal suppression? A turret on the ceiling with a remote video laser-assisted aiming system?

"Give me all your money!"
/motor whirrs, beep beep beep, pshhhhh
"Oh god it burns! It burns!"

Yup, rumor has it that this is an early prototype of their machine. It fires Peets-balls instead of pepper balls. :D

RxBa5bQfTGc

MT1
03-03-2010, 12:44 PM
Wife saw this on MSN yesterday

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35686483



-Jason


Starbucks asked both gun enthusiasts and gun-control advocates "to refrain from putting Starbucks or our partners into the middle of this divisive issue."


I think it would be VERY wise of the open carry people to respect Starbuck's request and make a statement that they will no longer have organized events at Starbucks locations. Reiterate that they appreciate Starbucks standing up for the rights of their patrons, but will keep them from being in the middle as asked. This deflates the situation and keeps the Bradys from pushing them into banning open carry. This will take the wind out of the Brady's sails and make them look like whiners if they press the issue.

N6ATF
03-03-2010, 1:51 PM
Yup, rumor has it that this is an early prototype of their machine. It fires Peets-balls instead of pepper balls. :D

RxBa5bQfTGc

http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/does_want_trollcat.jpg

IGOTDIRT4U
03-03-2010, 3:40 PM
I think it would be VERY wise of the open carry people to respect Starbuck's request and make a statement that they will no longer have organized events at Starbucks locations. Reiterate that they appreciate Starbucks standing up for the rights of their patrons, but will keep them from being in the middle as asked. This deflates the situation and keeps the Bradys from pushing them into banning open carry. This will take the wind out of the Brady's sails and make them look like whiners if they press the issue.

I was thinking the same thing. Out of pure respect, give the Starbucks stores a break from this by refraining from UOC if it is not necessary. The Bradys seem eager to shoot themselves in the foot; let them.

winxp_man
03-03-2010, 3:53 PM
wow Starbucks surprised me with the being in favor of guns :jump: one more reason to drink the coffee now :D

Neil McCauley
03-03-2010, 4:30 PM
:)


http://i45.tinypic.com/i73dd0.gif

Add the nipples back with the guns and now your talking :D

emttim
03-03-2010, 5:25 PM
After sending a 'thank you' to Starbucks, I got a letter a few hrs later. Hello,

Thanks for contacting Starbucks Coffee Company.

We recognize that there is significant and genuine passion surrounding the issue of open carry weapons laws. Advocacy groups from both sides of this issue have chosen to use Starbucks as a way to draw attention to their positions.

While we deeply respect the views of all our customers, Starbucks long-standing approach to this issue remains unchanged. We comply with local laws and statutes in all the communities we serve. In this case, 43 of the 50 U.S. states have open carry weapon laws. Where these laws don't exist, we comply with laws that prohibit the open carrying of weapons. The political, policy and legal debates around these issues belong in the legislatures and courts, not in our stores.

At the same time, we have a security protocol for any threatening situation that might occur in our stores. Partners are trained to call law enforcement as situations arise. We will continuously review our procedures to ensure the highest safety guidelines are in place and we will continue to work closely with law enforcement.

We have examined this issue through the lens of partner (employee) and customer safety. Were we to adopt a policy different from local laws allowing open carry, we would be forced to require our partners to ask law abiding customers to leave our stores, putting our partners in an unfair and potentially unsafe position.

As the public debate continues, we are asking all interested parties to refrain from putting Starbucks or our partners into the middle of this divisive issue. As a company, we are extremely sensitive to the issue of gun violence in our society. Our Starbucks family knows all too well the dangers that exist when guns are used irresponsibly and illegally. Without minimizing this unfortunate reality, we believe that supporting local laws is the right way for us to ensure a safe environment for both partners and customers.


We appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective.

Warm Regards,

Alyssa R.
Customer Relations

You can tell it was written from both sides of the argument. But hey, now they know that there is a strong group of us out there too.

CSTactical
03-08-2010, 3:35 PM
STARBUCKS ISSUES STATEMENT ON OPEN CARRY POLICY in response... (http://www.cstactical.com/discussions/7-The-Second-Amendment-Fight/17-The-Second-Amendment-Fight/152-Starbucks-Bring-on-the-guns.html#p254)