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ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 4:41 PM
"Sounds like you had someone practicing their 2nd amendment rights last night! Should've pulled the AR out and prone them all out! And if one of them made a furtive movement...2 weeks off!!!"

-Detective Roderick Tuason (talking about recent contact with UOC'ing citizens)
650-853-7244 / PD's anonymous tip line at 650-853-8477

Detective Tuason's Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=649326089&ref=ts

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g188/rickeepoo/ramrod.gif

DVLDOC
02-07-2010, 4:47 PM
He's my new facebook friend now ;)

Nevermind, I think he deleted his facebook account already :mad:

Scratch705
02-07-2010, 4:47 PM
and that is why i don't trust any cop i don't know personally as far as i can order them.

Fot
02-07-2010, 4:48 PM
Whats the contact info for IA in that area?

kertong
02-07-2010, 4:49 PM
Thanks all :D

I don't know Tuason personally, but I believe him to be of questionable character. Just like police might approach a open carrier with guns drawn because he *might* be a murderer, I think we need to approach Mr. Tuason with lawsuits drawn because he *might* be a citizen-murdering officer. :D Wonder how the police think their own medicine tastes..

+10000 Thanks to ChuckBooty for starting a new thread. :)

battleship
02-07-2010, 4:49 PM
What just happened here with this thread i got to page 8 and i could not access it, now its change to one page of one only????

Roadrunner
02-07-2010, 4:50 PM
He's my new facebook friend now ;)

Maybe we should all make him our new friend.

Roadrunner
02-07-2010, 4:52 PM
What just happened here with this thread i got to page 8 and i could not access it, now its change to one page of one only????

Just protecting the good guys.

wildhawker
02-07-2010, 4:53 PM
What did I miss?

Not sure if this was up long:

We NEED someone to post this on OCDO if it has not been already.
This is something WE CAN ALL work together on...

Abso-MF-lutely.

The headhunter in me might win out, and is currently considering an event in his district...

If I make some arrangements for a strategic event in that area would people be willing to join?

spsellars
02-07-2010, 4:55 PM
Nevermind, I think he deleted his facebook account already :mad:

Yup...

Edit: Seems to be working again. Weird.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 4:55 PM
Here's the email address to send complaints to - more email addresses to come:

webcomments@cityofepa.org

kertong
02-07-2010, 4:55 PM
wildhawker: my shiny new kimber 1911 and I will be there :) just me know when/where. :)

battleship
02-07-2010, 4:57 PM
So where are we going with this, has anybody called his dept, i have yet to open carry but this guys attitude eats me alive inside he needs to be outed.

From what he wrote he is just itching to shoot someone and he says it without any concern for his action, hes a sociopath.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 4:57 PM
DAVID E. WOODS - MAYOR
1058 Weeks Street, East Palo Alto, CA 94303
Phone No: (650)804-2125
davidwoods01@yahoo.com

RUBEN ABRICA (COUNSEL MEMBER)
15 Newell Rd Apt 5, East Palo Alto, CA 94303
Phone No: (650)321-4001
rubenxl@aol.com

obeygiant
02-07-2010, 4:59 PM
i may have to fly up for this one. game on!

technique
02-07-2010, 5:00 PM
I think plenty would be willing to join.
We, as in all of us...don't take this lightly.
This has those that don't normally side with OC in a frenzy.
This is a direct attack on 2ndA supporters in general.


Glad the other thread was shut down to help the good guys involved in this (that's what I gather anyway).
Lets move forward to the actions....


PS. Posted on the local Idaho board, last time they were more than willing to call for the ammo bans and SF gun shows.

fairfaxjim
02-07-2010, 5:04 PM
What just happened here with this thread i got to page 8 and i could not access it, now its change to one page of one only????

Publicly attacking or bashing anyone who is not participating to defend themselves is, at the minumum, poor form. I'm not saying this guy doesn't deserve some major heat, but using the calguns.net arena to declare open season on him is not productive, and is infact counter productive. Kes and the mods here tend to take the high road, and pick their battles with the big picture in mind.

However, if anyone wants to set up a facebook or whatever account to out this little JBT wannabe, I'd love to get PM'd a link to it.

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 5:08 PM
Publicly attacking or bashing anyone who is not participating to defend themselves is, at the minumum, poor form. I'm not saying this guy doesn't deserve some major heat, but using the calguns.net arena to declare open season on him is not productive, and is infact counter productive. Kes and the mods here tend to take the high road, and pick their battles with the big picture in mind.


I disagree with you on this one. In this day and age we're told to take EVERY threat seriously. For instance...just whisper the word "bomb" at an airport and see where it gets you. Maybe a better example would be the kids who murdered all those people at Columbine High School or the Virginia Tech mass murderer. In each case they had Internet postings saying things JUST LIKE the one that this Detective said. I'm not saying he needs to be fired...but he needs to be looked at by professionals.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 5:09 PM
Please email the Mayor at the email address I posted above. Attach the screen shot.

I am now working on getting the EPAPD email addresses.

battleship
02-07-2010, 5:11 PM
I think the FBI should look into this guy, they cover civil rights violations and he is clearly advocating just that.

DVLDOC
02-07-2010, 5:13 PM
I disagree with you on this one. In this day and age we're told to take EVERY threat seriously. For instance...just whisper the word "bomb" at an airport and see where it gets you. Maybe a better example would be the kids who murdered all those people at Columbine High School or the Virginia Tech mass murderer. In each case they had Internet postings saying things JUST LIKE the one that this Detective said. I'm not saying he needs to be fired...but he needs to be looked at by professionals.


Nice signature line Chuck! :D

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 5:19 PM
Please email the Mayor at the email address I posted above. Attach the screen shot.

I am now working on getting the EPAPD email addresses.

Done! Here's a copy of my letter. If you write, make SURE you DO NOT lecture these people on the merits of UOC or the 2nd Amendment. It's about citizens being concerned that a police officer is so callous about killing a civilian, even referring to the act as a "vacation"!

To Whom It May Concern,

It has recently come to my attention that a high-ranking police official, DET Roderick Tuason of the East Palo Alto PD has been making postings on his personal Facebook page talking, very casually, about killing EPA citizens. In a recent Facebook conversation about California citizens who own firearms, DET Tuason said,

"Sounds like you had someone practicing their 2nd amendment rights last night! Should've pulled the AR out and prone them all out! And if one of them made a furtive movement...2 weeks off!!!"


What concerns me here is a Police Detective speaking so cavalierly about killing a citizen. In fact, he refers to the killing as, "2 weeks off!!!". I'm not sure if this detective was joking or not, but I DO know that the Columbine High School shooters as well as the Virginia Tech mass murderer ALL had similar Internet postings before their horrendous act.

Here is a link to an Internet blog that has picked up the story (the story is spreading to the media): http://kevinthomason.blogspot.com/2010/02/local-cop-advocates-shooting-law.html

It includes a screen shot of the conversation and a link to this detectives Facebook.

Please let me know if any action is being taken in this instance.

-xxxx xxxxxx

SJgunguy24
02-07-2010, 5:19 PM
I've gone duck hunting there before (EPA) would he take me out simply because I have a shotgun with me? This dude is everything that is wrong with some cops, and he needs to be delt with swiftly and with a heavy hand.

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 5:21 PM
I've gone duck hunting there before (EPA) would he take me out simply because I have a shotgun with me? This dude is everything that is wrong with some cops, and he needs to be delt with swiftly and with a heavy hand.

Start by contacting the mayor and the city counsel (Oaklander provided their contact info). Then send this to all media outlets who covered UOC events in California. We'll get something done on this.

supersteve9219
02-07-2010, 5:22 PM
I think the FBI should look into this guy, they cover civil rights violations and he is clearly advocating just that.

Go ahead and do it
https://tips.fbi.gov/

Ive contacted them before and they called me 5 mins after I emailed a tip in, once they told me nicely they didn't cover what I was tipping them off about and the other time they got more info.

They are very helpful and won't get pissed about you contacting them about something they don't cover.

kertong
02-07-2010, 5:24 PM
Yeah, I think this Rod officer should be checked out, and given a slap on the wrist, but I don't know if the whole media wagon and firing/banning is necessary. I think in all honestly, his comment was in jest.

The only reason I am not throwing up my arms saying "slow your roll folks", is because police are just as quick to jump on an open carrier, CCW holder, or even a home invasion defendant with a gun as a criminal. :)

Hopi
02-07-2010, 5:24 PM
email sent to the 3 addresses posted above.

kertong
02-07-2010, 5:25 PM
Also, found this on their website:

http://www.ci.east-palo-alto.ca.us/police/pdf/National_Night_Out.pdf

Sounds like an all american way to celebrate and reaffirm our commitment to fight crime. Hell, doesn't it sound like a perfect time to open carry and show our commitment to protecting our homeland and families?

:D

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 5:26 PM
Yeah, I think this Rod officer should be checked out, and given a slap on the wrist, but I don't know if the whole media wagon and firing/banning is necessary. I think in all honestly, his comment was in jest.

The only reason I am not throwing up my arms saying "slow your roll folks", is because police are just as quick to jump on an open carrier, CCW holder, or even a home invasion defendant with a gun as a criminal. :)

I haven't seen much call for him to lose his job. But we need to do the media, mayor, route because that's the ONLY WAY we're going to get anyone to take a look at this guy. We need get him put on admin duty and see a psych officer. If the professionals talk to him and see that he was just being an elitist idiot then fine. But it IS possible that they'll find out that this guy has been strangling alley cats while wearing his dead great-grandmothers high-heels and lipstick. And talking in the mirror going, "muaaaah...uh..ooomuahh...would you **** me?? muaahha I would **** me ....ihhhh..muahhh: :eek:

Ding126
02-07-2010, 5:28 PM
I guess this cop is selective on what laws and rights he will up hold.

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 5:30 PM
Also, found this on their website:

http://www.ci.east-palo-alto.ca.us/police/pdf/National_Night_Out.pdf

Sounds like an all american way to celebrate and reaffirm our commitment to fight crime. Hell, doesn't it sound like a perfect time to open carry and show our commitment to protecting our homeland and families?

:D

It does! If only my time-machine wasn't on the blink! LOL...kidding man. But it's from Aug 2009.

djbooya
02-07-2010, 5:32 PM
Link to document to file official complaint:

http://www.ci.east-palo-alto.ca.us/police/pdf/Complaint_Policy_Packet.pdf

spsellars
02-07-2010, 5:33 PM
It does! If only my time-machine wasn't on the blink! LOL...kidding man. But it's from Aug 2009.

I think it's safe to assume that "Each Year" includes years other than 2009.

kertong
02-07-2010, 5:33 PM
It does! If only my time-machine wasn't on the blink! LOL...kidding man. But it's from Aug 2009.

Haha! I keep forgetting it's 2010 already, where does all the time go? :(

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 5:34 PM
Link to document to file official complaint:

http://www.ci.east-palo-alto.ca.us/police/pdf/Complaint_Policy_Packet.pdf

Printing it now! It'll be in the mail tomorrow morning!

Fot
02-07-2010, 5:34 PM
Sent three e-mails.. posted on my facebook and asked others to do the same.. I have a few friends in law enforcement and a guy like this gives them all a bad name..

oaklander
02-07-2010, 5:37 PM
His facebook account is now gone. . .

Someone must have reported it (or he deleted it). . .

:D

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 5:39 PM
His facebook account is now gone. . .

Someone must have reported it (or he deleted it). . .

:D

It's there still: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=649326089&ref=ts

technique
02-07-2010, 5:45 PM
When you google *Detective Roderick Tuason*, before, you were getting a bunch of news stories and crime stoppers.

Now his name is coming up in a whole new light. *snicker*

Fot
02-07-2010, 5:46 PM
It's there still: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=649326089&ref=ts

Doesn't show his account

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 5:47 PM
Doesn't show his account

I don't know what the story is then...it still comes up for me.

spsellars
02-07-2010, 5:48 PM
Doesn't show his account

It wasn't working for me earlier, but is now.

It might be that he deleted it, and it takes a while to propagate to all of Facebook's CDN servers.

Edit: Guessing that's the case, as if you search for him on the friends list of his friends, he doesn't show up.

D53
02-07-2010, 5:54 PM
i am finishing up my email right now and it will be sent off, I just double checked his FB page and its gone. I honestly belive that he should be made an example of. I know that there are a lot of good LEO's out there that are squared away and do care about the public, but there are also some out there that are riding the power and "perks" of the job.
How fast do anti gun advocates jump on a pro 2A citizen when they do something with a firearm ( including non lethal and excercicsing of rights)? This is a LEO and not just a patrol officer ( nothing wrong with them, thats how most get their starts) but he is a detective talking about proning out and possibly getting away with shooting a citizen just because the only repercussion is a 2 week paid leave of absence.

wildhawker
02-07-2010, 5:55 PM
PROTEST PLANNING THREAD HERE (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=188)

Scratch705
02-07-2010, 5:55 PM
he probably put his FB on blocking all unknown persons.

its not that hard. i meant its just simply the highest level of privacy you can set.

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 5:55 PM
That email is old and is incorrect. Just tried to send a test email and got it returned as undeliverable.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 5:56 PM
That's good - it means he knows that he has done something wrong, and that there WILL be repercussions.

he probably put his FB on blocking all unknown persons.

its not that hard. i meant its just simply the highest level of privacy you can set.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 5:57 PM
OK - deleted out of thread.

That email is old and is incorrect. Just tried to send a test email and got it returned as undeliverable.

wildhawker
02-07-2010, 6:01 PM
Posted at OCDO:


All,

Below is a thread to plan a joint venture protest event. I'd like to organize all Calguns and OCDO forces for this. We need to clearly show EPAPD and all Bay Area law enforcement that this attitude and threatening behavior towards peaceful law-abiding citizens WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

With an eye towards the future and the cooperation of the entire gun rights community, let's work together and make sure this lesson is impossible to forget or ignore.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=267625

-Brandon Combs
wildhawker at gmail dot com
Phone by request

M. Sage
02-07-2010, 7:16 PM
Yeah, I think this Rod officer should be checked out, and given a slap on the wrist, but I don't know if the whole media wagon and firing/banning is necessary. I think in all honestly, his comment was in jest.

The only reason I am not throwing up my arms saying "slow your roll folks", is because police are just as quick to jump on an open carrier, CCW holder, or even a home invasion defendant with a gun as a criminal. :)

What? In jest? Joking about murdering political dissidents when you're a cop is way over the line.

This guy needs to lose his job over this, the comments in the screen shot lead me to think that he believes that we are the enemy.

Well he's right... now. He just made a lot of enemies, and we're them.

ETA: It's his job to make sure that things like this don't happen in his back yard. To make a comment like this... this man should be jobless, penniless and homeless tomorrow. Though I know that won't happen....

To the Staff:
Leave this one open and in place.

Hell yes I will! :43:

cdtx2001
02-07-2010, 7:25 PM
With all the publicity of the OC movement, the media should be alerted to this as well.

Seesm
02-07-2010, 7:29 PM
I think we should go after getting ROD and others like him pulled OFF there respective forces... Don't they know it is legal and the UOC's are not criminals and should not be treated as such.

What can CG's do to make this happen? I am PISSED after all this...

Where do I sign up to help this happen... BTW I do not believe in UOC thus far but I support and would still help the people who do. AND this is NOT LEO bashing cuz I have 2 cuoisn who are LEO's so I like Leo's but I dislike dumb people all together.

thegratenate
02-07-2010, 7:30 PM
I would like to take this discussion another direction.
What if?

What if this douche ends up in a justifiable shoot? How can he ever work as a police officer again after getting caught saying something so stupid. "two weeks off" in today's age of instant communication, this guy is a tremendous liability the next time he walks down the street with a gun. Any ambulance chaser worth his parking stub could milk a fortune out of the taxpayers in that city the next time he even says boo to someone.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 7:33 PM
Exactly! I say some stupid stuff here. But there are SOME things that even *I* won't say because I know that words have repercussions.

What is disturbing about this whole thing is that this guy:

1) said those things, and;

2) didn't even have the mental filter to realize the effects

:eek:

I would like to take this discussion another direction.
What if?

What if this douche ends up in a justifiable shoot? How can he ever work as a police officer again after getting caught saying something so stupid. "two weeks off" in today's age of instant communication, this guy is a tremendous liability the next time he walks down the street with a gun. Any ambulance chaser worth his parking stub could milk a fortune out of the taxpayers in that city the next time he even says boo to someone.

Roadrunner
02-07-2010, 7:38 PM
Well there will be a lot of damage control being done, the mayor and the city manager will be going nuts trying to fix this PR disaster. The chief of police may not care, but the city manager and ELECTED officials will certainly make him care. If push comes to shove, Roderick will be thrown under the bus as the sacrificial lamb just to shut us up.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 7:39 PM
Well, I think the issue here is that we have what APPEARS to be a "bad cop."

He does a disservice to the millions of GOOD COPS who put their lives on the line every day for us.

My parents always taught me to have respect for cops. Mom, Dad, you lied!

Seesm
02-07-2010, 7:40 PM
I would like to take this discussion another direction.
What if?

What if this douche ends up in a justifiable shoot? How can he ever work as a police officer again after getting caught saying something so stupid. "two weeks off" in today's age of instant communication, this guy is a tremendous liability the next time he walks down the street with a gun. Any ambulance chaser worth his parking stub could milk a fortune out of the taxpayers in that city the next time he even says boo to someone.

Yup... He has let his terrible thought go out across the web and thus has been caught in the WEB! :)

Lex Arma
02-07-2010, 7:46 PM
1. Yeah the cop smoked his career. If he is ever involving in a shooting, the DA gets to charge attempted murder or murder if the victim dies. And if the Department doesn't fire him (and believe me no new department will hire him for more than parking meter attendant), they could face punitive damages in any civil suit, if this gets reported to the Department.

2. This is why UOC is a bad idea. This guy outed himself. How many other trigger-happy *****holes are out there? How many of them are scaring rookies who will make a fatal mistake. We are on the cusp of getting shall-issue CCW in this state. Nobody needs to die to secure the right to bear arms.

Shotgun Man
02-07-2010, 7:50 PM
1. Yeah the cop smoked his career. If he is ever involving in a shooting, the DA gets to charge attempted murder or murder if the victim dies. And if the Department doesn't fire him (and believe me no new department will hire him for more than parking meter attendant), they could face punitive damages in any civil suit, if this gets reported to the Department.

2. This is why UOC is a bad idea. This guy outed himself. How many other trigger-happy *****holes are out there? How many of them are scaring rookies who will make a fatal mistake. We are on the cusp of getting shall-issue CCW in this state. Nobody needs to die to secure the right to bear arms.

So the reason UOC is bad idea is because it will cause cops to out themselves and to train their underlings to overreact?

I agree with UOC should back off and wait but certainly not for these reasons.

Uriah02
02-07-2010, 7:51 PM
In all fairness, while chatting with my LEO roomate about wanting to start UOC he was adverse to it because so far the majority of who he and his department have encountered are disrespectful jerks not giving responsible gun owners any credibility either...

kertong
02-07-2010, 7:52 PM
I, for one, think the rash of complaints he's surely received is punishment enough. Would prefer not to see this turn into a lynch mob.

wildhawker
02-07-2010, 7:54 PM
In all fairness, while chatting with my LEO roomate about wanting to start UOC he was adverse to it because so far the majority of who he and his department have encountered are disrespectful jerks not giving responsible gun owners any credibility either...

In all fairness, what does he consider "disrespectful"?

A disdain for an unconstitutional search (12031(e))? A frustration with many law enforcement CLEOs refusing to allow citizens the opportunity to carry in self defense? Regular citizens with the audacity to carry the tools of "their" trade?

Lex Arma
02-07-2010, 7:56 PM
So the reason UOC is bad idea is because it will cause cops to out themselves and to train their underlings to overreact?

I agree with UOC should back off and wait but certainly not for these reasons.

No. It is a bad idea because nobody needs to die for gesture politics when we are winning the battle. Overreact here is a euphemism for a homicide waiting to happen.

yellowfin
02-07-2010, 8:01 PM
^ Very true, but at the same time if there are more of this kind of problem out there, it would be good to have them exposed and disposed of rather than simply having the anti gun owner mentality continue- in any form let alone to this extreme- to be institutionally entrenched and endorsed.

bodger
02-07-2010, 8:09 PM
I, for one, think the rash of complaints he's surely received is punishment enough. Would prefer not to see this turn into a lynch mob.

I understand your concern, but this cop's posts on FB lead me to believe he's ready to lynch (shoot) law-abiding citizens who are exercising their rights.

And he suggests attending meetings of 2A activists and laughing at them because they can't get a CCW?

Any law enforcement officer possessed of those opinions and who is dumb enough to make statements like that on a public forum doesn't deserve his job and isn't fit to serve as a sworn officer.

I hope his department gets him "proned out" double quick.
He's an embarrassment to his agency and a threat to the public he is supposed to be protecting.

Telperion
02-07-2010, 8:10 PM
I, for one, think the rash of complaints he's surely received is punishment enough. Would prefer not to see this turn into a lynch mob.

Saying that you will enjoy the shooting of an innocent, and use a pretext - "furtive motions" - to justify the slaying, is an indication of sociopathy. This man is dangerous. He has a badge and a gun, he is aware that his position as a police officer makes it possible for him to justify acts of homicide under certain situations, that others in position of authority are inclined to believe his word as an officer, and that he is supportive of using this to his advantage to deprive innocents of their rights and life. Such individuals should be dealt with harshly.

Roadrunner
02-07-2010, 8:11 PM
Rods mentality helps me understand why we don't have shall issue in this state, and why most, and I do mean most police managers are opposed to getting on board and supporting the second amendment.

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 8:14 PM
The fact that he said this definitely ensures that ANY officer involved shooting that he is a part of gets the department in a lot of hot water. 2A or not! Definitely point this out to the mayor or anyone else that you guys write complaints to.

kertong: Listen man...I know how you feel. But this coming to the attention of his superiors and possibly getting him off the street could very well save sombodys life. Hey...Imagine what the press would do if this was some Marine writing this about people in Iraq or something. They'd string him up and he'd be out of the Corps in the blink of an eye.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 8:20 PM
Going viral as we speak.

;)

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 8:25 PM
Here's an easy-to-fill-out online officer complaint form: http://www.ci.east-palo-alto.ca.us/police/communitycomplaint.html

All of the personal information is optional. All you need to fill out is the part about the incident. Takes ten seconds!

pullnshoot25
02-07-2010, 8:25 PM
Called and left a message. I hope they fire his ***. What a friggin maroon.

Us vs. Them, exemplified and set in stone.

Should I FB message him or what?

NeuTag
02-07-2010, 8:27 PM
Please email the Mayor at the email address I posted above. Attach the screen shot.

I am now working on getting the EPAPD email addresses.

I will do that...Cowboys need to be weeded out,

N6ATF
02-07-2010, 8:30 PM
Called and left a message. I hope they fire his ***. What a friggin maroon.

Us vs. Them, exemplified and set in stone.

Should I FB message him or what?

Not until he's in prison. Harder to run your records (or have his buddies run your records) and hunt you down.

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 8:30 PM
Should I FB message him or what?

I'd wait (I know at least one person has already FB'd him though). All that will do is give him a chance to come up with a story and/or delete his posting. He'll have plenty of time to contact his union rep once the SHTF. :43:

technique
02-07-2010, 8:32 PM
In all fairness, what does he consider "disrespectful"?

A disdain for an unconstitutional search (12031(e))? A frustration with many law enforcement CLEOs refusing to allow citizens the opportunity to carry in self defense? Regular citizens with the audacity to carry the tools of "their" trade?

I'm sure that's what he means. I have to say, I get a good chuckle from some of the UOC videos. The bottom line is this: A lot of these UOC guys can site PC right then and there. Some of the LE have to "look it up". That's "disrespectful".

Some of us have done it for giggles, I'm guilty.

Can I see some ID?

I'm not obligated to provide you with ID. I am not, nor have I been involved in a crime. I will not be providing you with ID at this time.

*Frustration*

Sometimes, knowing the law and exercising your rights is taken as "disrespectful". Apparently...:rolleyes:

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 8:33 PM
Also, I know this goes without saying for 99.9% of us. But to the newer members....PLEASE be respectful when leaving messages, sending emails, writing letters, etc. And remember...it's probably a bad idea to go on a 2A or UOC rant. It'll just turn them off and that's not really what this is all about anyways, IMO.

tankerman
02-07-2010, 8:34 PM
Spread the story around to firearm and non-firearm related sites.

obeygiant
02-07-2010, 8:34 PM
Additional Contact Information.


DAVID E. WOODS - MAYOR
1058 Weeks Street, East Palo Alto, CA 94303
Phone No: (650)804-2125
davidwoods01@yahoo.com

CARLOS ROMERO - VICE MAYOR
2211 Ralmar Avenue
East Palo Alto, CA 94303
Phone No: (650)328-4363

RUBEN ABRICA - COUNCIL MEMBER
15 Newell Rd Apt 5, East Palo Alto, CA 94303
Phone No: (650)321-4001
rubenxl@aol.com

A. PETER EVANS - COUNCIL MEMBER
1111 Beech Street, East Palo Alto, CA 94303
Phone No: (650)321-1009
Ujimaepa@aol.com

LAURA MARTINEZ - COUNCIL MEMBER
2255 Oakwood Drive
East Palo Alto, CA 94303
Phone No: (650) 644-5160

Internal Affairs Unit
(650) 853-3145

Professional Standards Unit
(650) 853-3145
(650) 853-3103 – Fax
24-hour Complaint Hotline:
(650) 361-0262

CABilly
02-07-2010, 8:34 PM
Could this be used as evidence in any CCW movement? I mean, there's basically an officer admitting us uppity mortals have no chance at getting a CCW license.

Roadrunner
02-07-2010, 8:48 PM
Also, I know this goes without saying for 99.9% of us. But to the newer members....PLEASE be respectful when leaving messages, sending emails, writing letters, etc. And remember...it's probably a bad idea to go on a 2A or UOC rant. It'll just turn them off and that's not really what this is all about anyways, IMO.

With the tsunami that's brewing, I doubt they will ignore anything. This dufus stepped on it globally. And if the media decides to run with it, you know a bunch of managers are going to be grabbing both cheeks with both hands and waiting for the storm. Then after they are through with the ride, Rod's turn is next. I know a little something about how local government works, and if his police department has a membership with this group called PORAC (http://www.porac.org/), he will probably get one of their attorneys to represent him in what is called a skelly hearing (http://webmain02.fire.ca.gov/Pubs/Issuance/1000/1093.pdf). And once this is done and they recommend his termination, he's history. So, if he is fired, it won't be immediately. Unlike private businesses, he doesn't necessarily work at their pleasure.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 8:55 PM
Ooops.

:eek:

Not until he's in prison. Harder to run your records (or have his buddies run your records) and hunt you down.

bwiese
02-07-2010, 8:56 PM
With the tsunami that's brewing, I doubt they will ignore anything. This dufus stepped on it globally. And if the media decides to run with it, you know a bunch of managers are going to be grabbing both cheeks with both hands and waiting for the storm. Then after they are through with the ride, Rod's turn is next. I know a little something about how local government works, and if his police department has a membership with this group called PORAC (http://www.porac.org/), he will probably get one of their attorneys to represent him in what is called a skelly hearing (http://webmain02.fire.ca.gov/Pubs/Issuance/1000/1093.pdf). And once this is done and they recommend his termination, he's history. So, if he is fired, it won't be immediately. Unlike private businesses, he doesn't necessarily work at their pleasure.

You'd think, but EPA PD has a history of hiring compromised officers that can't work elsewhere.

EPA PD is desparate enough to get someone, and the officer is grateful enough to find a Bay Area dept and not be relegated to working as a stockboy at Home Depot, so it's a match made in heaven.

rkt88edmo
02-07-2010, 8:57 PM
Or he says it was a joke and he didn't realize that it was being broadcast outside his friends and he gets a letter in his file.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 8:58 PM
Kind of like a Home Depot stockboy, with a nasty attitude, and a gun.

You'd think, but EPA PD has a history of hiring compromised officers that can't work elsewhere.

EPA PD is desparate enough to get someone, and the officer is grateful enough to find a Bay Area dept and not be relegated to working as a stockboy at Home Depot, so it's a match made in heaven.

technique
02-07-2010, 8:59 PM
Or he says it was a joke and he didn't realize that it was being broadcast outside his friends and he gets a letter in his file.

Eggs for you...still eggs.












It's likely, but we can still try.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 9:00 PM
Of course it was a joke. . .

The point is that he could even JOKE about killing people.

ETA: speaking as a lawyer here, I 100 percent agree with Don that his career is now toast.

I predict the following:

1) media outrage
2) he gets fired

Like I said, this is going viral - check the boards. . .

Or he says it was a joke and he didn't realize that it was being broadcast outside his friends and he gets a letter in his file.

steel-cut
02-07-2010, 9:06 PM
Thus guy probably is not the brightest light in EPAPD, posting things like that on the net. :eek:

kertong
02-07-2010, 9:07 PM
Great.. *now* do I have good cause??

CABilly
02-07-2010, 9:11 PM
Great.. *now* do I have good cause??

Haha, please someone submit their CCW app. to EPA CLEO with "threat of lethal force used upon me by officers of this department for openly and visibly exercising my constitutional rights."

pullnshoot25
02-07-2010, 9:12 PM
Not until he's in prison. Harder to run your records (or have his buddies run your records) and hunt you down.

Too late, my stuff is all over the net.

steadyrock
02-07-2010, 9:13 PM
E-mail sent to all three addresses provided, calling for his suspension pending an investigation and psychological evaluation.

Lex Arma
02-07-2010, 9:17 PM
The backlash here could just as easily be outlawing UOC. With the Oakland City Council meeting coming up, mainstream 2A rights organizations (NRA, SAF, maybe even CalGuns) will be forced to publically repudiate UOC. An unfortunate circumstance.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 9:18 PM
That's a good point. Let me rethink some of this.

ETA: I've deleted my posts that explained how to get press. Not sure at this time if press is what we want.

The backlash here could just as easily be outlawing UOC. With the Oakland City Council meeting coming up, mainstream 2A rights organizations (NRA, SAF, maybe even CalGuns) will be forced to publically repudiate UOC. An unfortunate circumstance.

Lex Arma
02-07-2010, 9:19 PM
Are all you grandstanding UOCers happy now?

five.five-six
02-07-2010, 9:19 PM
You'd think, but EPA PD has a history of hiring compromised officers that can't work elsewhere.

EPA PD is desparate enough to get someone, and the officer is grateful enough to find a Bay Area dept and not be relegated to working as a stockboy at Home Depot, so it's a match made in heaven.


and the union will fight tooth and nail to keep him on his beat
I h8 unions.... well several of them

w55
02-07-2010, 9:20 PM
If you guys want to email your comments to Armstrong and Getty Show. One of the hosts will be expecting mail as i talked to hm about this today and he said he was going to check out the story.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 9:23 PM
Folks I'm with Lex here. Upon consideration, I think it's entirely appropriate to report this officer to his superiors. That being said, the media outcome of this could be unexpected.

I would therefore advise people to stand down at this time regarding any attempts to get press.

It's just not predictable how this will get spun.

wildhawker
02-07-2010, 9:24 PM
Are all you grandstanding UOCers happy now?

I'm the last guy to defend some of the less considered actions of UOC, but in spite of what I feel is a severe lacking in their current approach the comments by this officer are entirely unwarranted and would likely have been the same without UOC activity.

It's a symptom of the greater problem we have with LEAs.

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 9:27 PM
How are you gonna blame UOC on this? Need I remind you guys that his statement referenced people who "practice their 2nd amendment rights"? The conversation may have STARTED with UOC, but this guy laid it ALL out on the line. He wants to SHOOT gun owners!

Sgt Raven
02-07-2010, 9:28 PM
Palo Alto and EAST Palo Alto are two separate Cities.

A few more...

Palo Alto Weekly

Editor editor@paweekly.com
450 Cambridge Ave.
Palo Alto, CA 94306
(650) 326-8210
FAX: (650) 326-3928



City Administration:

City Council city_council@city.palo-alto.ca.us
City Manager city_manager@city.palo-alto.ca.us
City Attorney city_attorney@city.palo-alto.ca.us
Police pd@city.palo-alto.ca.us or pd@cityofpaloalto.org


Independent Police Auditors


Mr. Mike Gennaco
Phone: (323)890-5425
Email: mjgennac@laoir.com
Mr. Robert Miller
Phone: (323)890-5425
Email: r1miller@laoir.com

oaklander
02-07-2010, 9:28 PM
I agree with this, but let's not let our outrage color our thinking. The actual next real fight is in Oakland on the 16th, and involves actual laws that will affect people's rights in Oakland (and potentially around the state).

Lex' concern was that this is happening too close to that event (both geographically and time-wise), and could have unexpected fallout.

Again, let's follow appropriate procedure to get this guy reported - but let's hold off on doing press, etc.

That being said, I have no control over the OCDO people, but I would hope that they realize the sensitivities here.

I'm the last guy to defend some of the less considered actions of UOC, but in spite of what I feel is a severe lacking in their current approach the comments by this officer are entirely unwarranted and would likely have been the same without UOC activity.

It's a symptom of the greater problem we have with LEAs.

kertong
02-07-2010, 9:32 PM
I agree with this, but let's not let our outrage color our thinking. The actual next real fight is in Oakland on the 16th, and involves actual laws that will affect people's rights in Oakland (and potentially around the state).

Yeah, and I"m sure the complaints have already been filed. I'd really prefer we re-delete this thread, as I really regret participating here and did not intend for things to get this blown up.

w55
02-07-2010, 9:32 PM
When he says that part about people trying to exercise the 2nd amendment, that what is going to get picked up. Its something that the cops in Selma would have said "jokingly" about blacks voting...he went to far and the press already has this story.

dantodd
02-07-2010, 9:33 PM
That's good - it means he knows that he has done something wrong, and that there WILL be repercussions.

mens rea.

yelohamr
02-07-2010, 9:33 PM
He's going need hip waders and a sturdy umbrella. The ***** storm is about to hit. I've had citizen complaints (all unfounded), but nothing like this. He'll be a ledgend...in his own mind.

technique
02-07-2010, 9:34 PM
That being said, I have no control over the OCDO people, but I would hope that they realize the sensitivities here.

Is this a direct attack or directly related to UOC? I don't think so.
I think this is something all gun owners or "2ndA activists" are rightfully concerned with.

We've had a increased amount of UOC in the news over the last few months.
Curiosity here: Why would this story be any different? All things in Oakland considered mind you.

wildhawker
02-07-2010, 9:35 PM
Nothing we do in EPA would be before Oakland.

The fallout is not any more or less than any other UOC event. If UOC is going to be banned it will be with or without this singular protest. As a safety valve, I'll suspend the event if EPAPD places him on leave pending the outcome of the investigation. If he's working when the event is planned, I'll be working to make sure EPAPD understands that this isn't going away.

This officer made some very concerning remarks. That department and city should hold him accountable and offer an apology to all gun owners.

I agree with this, but let's not let our outrage color our thinking. The actual next real fight is in Oakland on the 16th, and involves actual laws that will affect people's rights in Oakland (and potentially around the state).

Lex' concern was that this is happening too close to that event (both geographically and time-wise), and could have unexpected fallout.

Again, let's follow appropriate procedure to get this guy reported - but let's hold off on doing press, etc.

That being said, I have no control over the OCDO people, but I would hope that they realize the sensitivities here.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 9:39 PM
This has the potential to get a lot of press, even go national. We simply aren't prepared to deal with this amount of press.

CGF (and CGN for that matter) have no media relations people. It's a full time job controlling how things are perceived in the press, and that's why we really haven't sought any press, for the most part.

In California, we are NOT going to win through "hearts and minds" - the demographics of the state make that impossible. Press therefore does not help us.

We win though litigation, not press. All the press tends to do is to alert the politicians what we are up to, and that's not a good thing.

Is this a direct attack or directly related to UOC? I don't think so.
I think this is something all gun owners or "2ndA activists" are rightfully concerned with.

We've had a increased amount of UOC in the news over the last few months.
Curiosity here: Why would this story be any different? All things in Oakland considered mind you.

obeygiant
02-07-2010, 9:39 PM
Palo Alto and EAST Palo Alto are two separate Cities.

thank you for the clarification. edited my post to reflect that.

jtv3062
02-07-2010, 9:39 PM
This cop needs to get fired.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 9:40 PM
I agree with this.


That department and city should hold him accountable and offer an apology to all gun owners.

dantodd
02-07-2010, 9:42 PM
Too late, my stuff is all over the net.

I will try very hard to not post what crossed my mind when I read this.....

trashman
02-07-2010, 9:43 PM
Who cares what this guy thinks.

I care, because I'm a taxpayer and this guy is a PUBLIC SERVANT. His salary is paid by tax dollars. And while I'm certainly appreciative of the dangers of working in EPA this guy crossed the line while smirking verbally about the possibility of shooting a UOC-er.

--Neill

dantodd
02-07-2010, 9:46 PM
The backlash here could just as easily be outlawing UOC. With the Oakland City Council meeting coming up, mainstream 2A rights organizations (NRA, SAF, maybe even CalGuns) will be forced to publically repudiate UOC. An unfortunate circumstance.

LOC is already dead, it ain't gettin' no deader.

UOC is useful only as a political expression and as Gene and You have pointed out in the U/L OC thread it is more of a liability because it could cost other non-OC related gun rights. Perhaps it would be better for CGF's strategic plans if UOC were outlawed. It would reduce the likelihood of "No Gun" signs, reduce the possibility of of other non-ban initiatives from interfering with transport, LUCC etc.

dantodd
02-07-2010, 9:49 PM
That department and city should hold him accountable and offer an apology to all gun owners.

They could throw a UOC BBQ. It's a lot closer to my place that Oakland.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 9:51 PM
LOL - that would be EPIC!

They could throw a UOC BBQ. It's a lot closer to my place that Oakland.

M. Sage
02-07-2010, 9:51 PM
Saying that you will enjoy the shooting of an innocent, and use a pretext - "furtive motions" - to justify the slaying, is an indication of sociopathy. This man is dangerous. He has a badge and a gun, he is aware that his position as a police officer makes it possible for him to justify acts of homicide under certain situations, that others in position of authority are inclined to believe his word as an officer, and that he is supportive of using this to his advantage to deprive innocents of their rights and life. Such individuals should be dealt with harshly.

Yessir, he should. We do not need to employ people with an attitude like that.

Who cares what this guy thinks.

I care a lot about the attitudes of the people I employ. When they have a crap attitude, they either need to adjust it or find employment in a different sector.

oaklander
02-07-2010, 9:53 PM
I was going to delete my blog post - but that would actually look fairly suspicious, especially now that it has been picked up by other blogs (http://adnanshahab.com/).

I'm going to personally stand down by NOT trying to get press.

Although it would be a cakewalk!

;)

Too late, my stuff is all over the net.

M. Sage
02-07-2010, 10:00 PM
I don't see how the press could spin this against OC...

pullnshoot25
02-07-2010, 10:01 PM
LOC is already dead, it ain't gettin' no deader.

UOC is useful only as a political expression and as Gene and You have pointed out in the U/L OC thread it is more of a liability because it could cost other non-OC related gun rights. Perhaps it would be better for CGF's strategic plans if UOC were outlawed. It would reduce the likelihood of "No Gun" signs, reduce the possibility of of other non-ban initiatives from interfering with transport, LUCC etc.

I don't think it is dead. The gestation might take a little longer but it will come back, kicking and screaming. MHO, YMMV, SGOWHFD (See Gene or Wild Hawker for Details ;) )

Now, as far as all this "Are you UOCers happy?" stuff.. REALLY? Like, you don't think half of these neurally glycated thugs, usually emotionally repressed man-boys with guns, would lunge at the chance to make an example of a law-abiding citizen, particularly a gun owner? This is WHOLLY indicative of a much larger problem with law enforcement. In fact, I will go so far as to say it is a CONTINUATION of the 1960s problem of SAN FRANCISCO cops killing black people.

UOC has not created the problem. It has, at best, clarified the issue. Think alum in dirty water.

CavTrooper
02-07-2010, 10:07 PM
I certainly hope someone in the right place looks deeply into this POS LEOs background. Every move this a hole has made from the beginning of his career until now needs to be scrutinized. His statement has outed him as someone who has no remorse taking an innocent life to the point where it appears he would do it just to get a couple weeks off work. Its not out of the realm of possibility, judging by the comment, that he has executed an innocent citizen in the past and got away with it, which could be the reason for his cavalier attitude towards murdering citizens.

This little slip could be insight to a greater problem with this LEO. If he has no regard for the constitutional rights of citizen, no regard for the rule of law, and no regard for human life, who knows how far he has gone during his career. Assault? Murder? Drugs? Bribery? Spousal abuse? Child porn? Who knows?! This guy is obviously sick, the question is, how sick is he?

pitchbaby
02-07-2010, 10:09 PM
Publicly attacking or bashing anyone who is not participating to defend themselves is, at the minumum, poor form. I'm not saying this guy doesn't deserve some major heat, but using the calguns.net arena to declare open season on him is not productive, and is infact counter productive. Kes and the mods here tend to take the high road, and pick their battles with the big picture in mind.

However, if anyone wants to set up a facebook or whatever account to out this little JBT wannabe, I'd love to get PM'd a link to it.

Agree

kertong
02-07-2010, 10:10 PM
Ugh, the more I'm reading this, the more I feel sick. From several words he posted, taken way out of context, people have crafted this horrible, hippie-beating dirty harry image and is crying for somebody to hang. I'm really disappointed and shocked in all this.

And we point fingers for people villifying the gun guy, we do it right back. Sad. :(

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 10:10 PM
Oaklander...I can understand your position. But I personally think that holding off on getting this handled because of a political or legal strategy is kind of a bad idea. This guy poses a threat to EVERY citizen he comes In contact with. 2A or no 2A, UOC or no UOC...this thing needs handled. That's how I see it anyways.

dantodd
02-07-2010, 10:12 PM
Oaklander...I can understand your position. But I personally think that holding off on getting this handled because of a political or legal strategy is kind of a bad idea. This guy poses a threat to EVERY citizen he comes In contact with. 2A or no 2A, UOC or no UOC...this thing needs handled. That's how I see it anyways.

Oaklander has not advocated standing down on getting the matter handled but rather not going to the press etc. because they could make it look like big bad armed citizens are making cops so nervous they might shoot someone.

(At least that's how I read it.)

otteray
02-07-2010, 10:15 PM
Jeez, this cop clearly needs to be investigated and disarmed .

A guy (gun owner) where I work was cuffed by deputies for pointing his finger like a gun at a fellow worker during an argument.
Fired.

In a separate situation, an employee was fired immediately and escorted away by deputies for just stating that he had a bullet for everyone he had issues with (private contractors)
So, why the heck isn't this LEO guy in the same boat after his unabashed threatening remarks!!??

beyaaah
02-07-2010, 10:15 PM
Not a good way to start the week :eek:





http://redbullsreader.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/caseofthemondays.jpg?w=300&h=265

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 10:16 PM
Well I don't think it needs to be a big media circus. But it DOES need to be handled by his department.

wildhawker
02-07-2010, 10:18 PM
Ugh, the more I'm reading this, the more I feel sick. From several words he posted, taken way out of context, people have crafted this horrible, hippie-beating dirty harry image and is crying for somebody to hang. I'm really disappointed and shocked in all this.

And we point fingers for people villifying the gun guy, we do it right back. Sad. :(

Hold on a second.

There's no lynch mob, just concerned citizens doing their civic duty to ensure the police force does not tolerate actions of this nature by their (our) employees. When you make mistakes, there are consequences. Some can, and should, be painful.

After McDonald, I am especially looking forward to ending abuse of lawful gun owners by rogue police officers and arrogant agencies who consider themselves above the law and our Constitution.

Lone_Gunman
02-07-2010, 10:21 PM
Oaklander has not advocated standing down on getting the matter handled but rather not going to the press etc. because they could make it look like big bad armed citizens are making cops so nervous they might shoot someone.

(At least that's how I read it.)

OK. I see how this could be spun against us but damn, this guy sure did step in it big time here. I think a lot of us are restless, with Nordyke on hold, the 962 fight basically on hold, and us waiting for the SCOTUS to hear McDonald. I for one have been feeling like I want to do something for the 2A but not really knowing what to do other than volunteering for the CGN booth at the gunshow in my area. This guy just made a helluva spark in a mighty dry bunch of tinder.

N6ATF
02-07-2010, 10:21 PM
I'm happy that we have finally found a crack in the blue wall against self-defense and the Constitution as a whole.

Now if we could find some more cracks (in the form of Facebook friends of friends who happen to be openly treasonous, would-be summary executioners), maybe we can finally... TEAR DOWN THIS WALL.

Too late, my stuff is all over the net.

I thought you were redacting your social, DL#, and address from all PRARed documents and request forms?

dantodd
02-07-2010, 10:27 PM
I think a lot of us are restless, with Nordyke on hold, the 962 fight basically on hold, and us waiting for the SCOTUS to hear McDonald. I for one have been feeling like I want to do something for the 2A but not really knowing what to do other than volunteering for the CGN booth at the gunshow in my area. This guy just made a helluva spark in a mighty dry bunch of tinder.

I'm right there with you bro. I feel a frustrated as a 16 year old at an all boys school.

GrizzlyGuy
02-07-2010, 10:29 PM
Oaklander...I can understand your position. But I personally think that holding off on getting this handled because of a political or legal strategy is kind of a bad idea. This guy poses a threat to EVERY citizen he comes In contact with. 2A or no 2A, UOC or no UOC...this thing needs handled. That's how I see it anyways.

+1

A police officer in a predominantly African-American community, that happens to have a high crime rate, has publicly threatened to kill law-abiding citizens of that community who choose to lawfully exercise their natural right to self defense.

We, as a community of law-abiding citizens, choose to support the citizens of that community. We aren't calling for the guy to be fired, we just want all law-abiding citizens to be able to lawfully exercise their natural right to self-defense (and their other natural and civil rights) without fear of retribution from the police.

This sounds a bit like the civil rights movement of the 1960's, and we are on the just and moral side of the issue. Why should we back down?

ChuckBooty
02-07-2010, 10:30 PM
Hold on a second.

There's no lynch mob, just concerned citizens doing their civic duty to ensure the police force does not tolerate actions of this nature by their (our) employees. When you make mistakes, there are consequences. Some can, and should, be painful.

After McDonald, I am especially looking forward to ending abuse of lawful gun owners by rogue police officers and arrogant agencies who consider themselves above the law and our Constitution.

QFT! I know he is having a bit of "buyers remorse" here. But this thing needed to be brought out into the sunlight. And there definitely is no lynch mob here.

M. Sage
02-07-2010, 10:35 PM
Ugh, the more I'm reading this, the more I feel sick. From several words he posted, taken way out of context, people have crafted this horrible, hippie-beating dirty harry image and is crying for somebody to hang. I'm really disappointed and shocked in all this.

And we point fingers for people villifying the gun guy, we do it right back. Sad. :(

What? How did we take this out of context? This cop was joking about committing murder!

I know, Godwin and all, but I'm going there: What he was joking about is something that must not be tolerated in American police - it's right at home in China, Cuba, the USSR or Nazi Germany, though.

cr250chevy
02-07-2010, 10:40 PM
In all honesty why are you guys flaming this guy?- its only b/c he has some negative comments about citizens w/ guns, big deal we have bigger hurtles to climb over than this guy! He's just expressing typical cop talk, its just a joke, GET OVER IT!

battleship
02-07-2010, 10:41 PM
So it sounds like the trains barrelling down the tracks with this, seeing how he has closed his face book account, he must know people are on to him and he is trying to hide the evidence, to late for that. Has someone contacted his superiors yet. Im tempted to call the FBI if it would do any good. This type of police attitude is a danger to society, i dont believe he said this as harmless banter between fellow officers while on line. from what he wrote it was if he was writing about the future, and it was only a matter of time. The right time the right location and perfect set of circumstances and some one would die at his hands. The target would be a person open carrying as it would give him an out, a probable cause for him to cover himself in the event of the investigation that would follow something like this. And the fact that he adds the 2 weeks vacation tells me he thinks he would surely get away with it.

Grakken
02-07-2010, 10:48 PM
Heed the advice of the people here who know better. I personally would listen to the real lawyers here.

cr250chevy
02-07-2010, 10:49 PM
His comment was out of place for a public forum, but why flame him for it?- you could look at other forums and you'll find the same comments...

FastFinger
02-07-2010, 10:51 PM
I was going to delete my blog post - but that would actually look fairly suspicious, especially now that it has been picked up by other blogs (http://adnanshahab.com/).

I'm going to personally stand down by NOT trying to get press.


At this point I believe the bell can no longer be unrung. Rather then try that impossible, spend efforts to determine whether there should or shouldn't an effort for CGN/CGF to become part of the story, and plan accordingly.

This story is all over the net, and no doubt many communiques have already been dispatched to various EPA and media representatives. So it's safe to assume that tomorrow some assignment editor will send out a reporter to EPA to cover the story.

Odds are the story will run with or without our active participation. Without it the reporter will speak to the city, maybe an LEO or two, and depending on how enterprising they are they may find some gun owner who may or may not be able to adequately present our concerns. It doesn't take too much imagination to envision some hapless owner falling into a semantic trap and saying something that can be used to justify the LEO's position.

I can see how this could easily morph into a story about a local LEO who is so concerned about public safety being jeopardized by gun nuts who want to play wild west gunslinger cowboys and Indians that out of frustration he made an innocent attempt at humor, one being blown all out of proportion, with the gun crazies now trying to lynch a dedicated police officer and stealing his job.

CGF doesn't have a media spokesperson, but we certainly have reps who can articulate our positions quite eloquently and are astute enough to avoid media traps. Some might even clean up adequately for prime time, gray hair and all!

I think it's best to contact local, and even national, news outlets ASAP and offer them a spokesperson who can offer a good interview.

Having worked in TV news for a couple of decades I can tell you that contacting them early with a well written position will get you on the list of possible contacts. For the TV stations offer to meet them at a visually interesting location, a shooting range, gun store, even home with a nice gun display. Or find a place in EPA where a recent rime was committed, one that was, or may have been, thwarted had a responsible citizen been armed. No doubt they'd shoot part of the story in EPA - so a location close to there would be best. A person reflecting the demo of EPA would be ideal, but not necessary.

Reporting resources are stretched - as is imagination, make it as easy as possible for them.

But I think it'd be a mistake to try keep a low profile at this point and risk having the story reported without being well represented.

dantodd
02-07-2010, 10:53 PM
My comment was far from trolling.

His comment was out of place for a public forum, but why flame him for it?- you could look at other forums and you'll find the same comments...

Would you feel the same way if his comment was about black people rather than UOCers? Or maybe about people in a gay pride parade? I'm just wondering where you line is as far as acceptability of shooting innocent people because of what they wear, believe in or the color of their skin.

N6ATF
02-07-2010, 10:53 PM
We, as a community of law-abiding citizens, choose to support the citizens of that community. We aren't calling for the guy to be fired, we just want all law-abiding citizens to be able to lawfully exercise their natural right to self-defense (and their other natural and civil rights) without fear of retribution from the police.

Depends. If in some alternate universe where government was actually interested in punishing bad employees instead of shielding and rewarding them, his use-of-force record proved that he beat, sprayed, clubbed, tazed, or even shot someone with fabricated justification, then I'd say he should be prosecuted for those felonies, and necessarily fired upon conviction.

If he has never done any of these things and only dreams about it, then I want him riding a desk for the rest of his career at the recruit-level salary, disarmed except when at home, and traveling directly to and from work. He is an unacceptable risk to the public at this point.

dantodd
02-07-2010, 10:55 PM
I believe that a CGF press-release is appropriate here. If it is already getting picked up I would rather have Kevin, Gene, Brandon etc. being interviewed by the local media than have them head down to the range and find the first man in camo.

wkd4496
02-07-2010, 10:55 PM
Rule of thumb, do not put anything on the internet you would not want on the headlines of a newspaper.

This individual deserves what is coming to him.

battleship
02-07-2010, 10:57 PM
Hes been flamed, because someone who is meant to serve and protect has a different agenda and he has clearly stated what his preference would be to civilian types i doubt being armed or not makes little difference to his mind set. As long as he could get away with it then its just fine. I believe his idea of what serve and protect should mean is greatly skewed in his eyes.
I would hate myself or one of my family members to cross this guys path wether it be just a traffic stop or lesser reason.
To act like his words were been taken out of context is a complete irresponsibility of anyone reading what he wrote.
Do not be blind sided by saying we have bigger hurtles to climb than this one.
This is now and should be dealt with as such, before we regret doing nothing until a later date.
You are insulting all cops if you think this is typical of there nature and to end by saying Get over it, tells me you are not a concerned citizen but a me me citizen.

cr250chevy
02-07-2010, 10:57 PM
Would you feel the same way if his comment was about black people rather than UOCers? Or maybe about people in a gay pride parade? I'm just wondering where you line is as far as acceptability of shooting innocent people because of what they wear, believe in or the color of their skin.

Do you honestly draw such a strong conclusion about this guy based upon ONE comment?- yeah the comment was bad, REALLY bad, but its internet text and sometimes the message you try to get across doesn't get across, and besides, i'd prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he just made a bad comment/ joke and yes he does need to answer for it, but to draw such strong opinions about someone from a short comment... I just dont think it's fair to him.

steadyrock
02-07-2010, 10:59 PM
My comment was far from trolling.

His comment was out of place for a public forum, but why flame him for it?- you could look at other forums and you'll find the same comments...

That more than one cop might find it humorous to joke about killing innocent civilians, does not make it OK.

Have you forgotten some of the cop to cop "humor" (http://www.abesha.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12452&start=0) in the Christopher Report (http://www.parc.info/client_files/Special%20Reports/1%20-%20Chistopher%20Commision.pdf)?

I flame him for it because he jokes about killing my friends. I am surprised you find that acceptable.

rkt88edmo
02-07-2010, 11:02 PM
In all honesty why are you guys flaming this guy?- its only b/c he has some negative comments about citizens w/ guns, big deal we have bigger hurtles to climb over than this guy! He's just expressing typical cop talk, its just a joke, GET OVER IT!


yeah - that is kinda my take. This wasn't a public statement. Is it worth a looksee? maybe, but that kind of jokey joke talk is pretty prevalent among some LEOs from what I can tell.

Note to self - don't tell any off color jokes to calgunners or on facebook.

FastFinger
02-07-2010, 11:02 PM
OK so where do YOU draw the line with law enforcement officers "jokeing"? Murder is OK with you? How about rape? If this detective joked about raping a woman would you say that "this was just a joke between officers"? How about child molestation? What's YOUR limit with this garbage?


A problem here is that there is a good portion of the public that, at first blush, will see nothing wrong with what this LEO said. Just like there are millions of folks who looked favorably at the cops beating down Rodney King, they would read an article about a LEO gunning down a UOP victim and say "It's about time."

I'm certainly not agreeing with that sentiment, but understand that probably 50% of your fellow Californians would cheer this guy getting his two weeks off, with pay.

Which is why we need to have a response plan in play tomorrow in case this gets picked up by the media.

dantodd
02-07-2010, 11:03 PM
Do you honestly draw such a strong conclusion about this guy based upon ONE comment?- yeah the comment was bad, REALLY bad, but its internet text and sometimes the message you try to get across doesn't get across, and besides, i'd prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he just made a bad comment/ joke and yes he does need to answer for it, but to draw such strong opinions about someone from a short comment... I just dont think it's fair to him.

So, are you saying if he made the same comment about any of the other groups of people I mentioned you would also stand up for him because the one statement isn't enough to say he's a racist or homophobe, etc. Is that correct?

eric2063
02-07-2010, 11:04 PM
That anyone who has shot someone in the line of duty and been through a post shooting review board, DA investigation and the civil law suits would call it a vacation, this guy is talking out his ***. Those LEOís that have been involved in a shooting donít talk about it outside of a VERY close circle of people, let alone make flippant remarks about it and putting it out on FB.
When was the last time East Pally had an officer involved shooting? Was officer Tauson even in the department?
He has let his Battleship mouth override his row boat *** and he will be busy with the internal affairs folks the rest of the week I forsee.

wildhawker
02-07-2010, 11:07 PM
yeah - that is kinda my take. This wasn't a public statement. Is it worth a looksee? maybe, but that kind of jokey joke talk is pretty prevalent among some LEOs from what I can tell.

Note to self - don't tell any off color jokes to calgunners or on facebook.

Off color jokes aside (and I think it's a bit of a reach to simply dismiss this as "boys will be boys"), replace "gun owner/2A advocate" with "black", "GLBT", "old", "woman" etc. and I think we would agree that proning an innocent with an AR is an unaccepetable civil rights violation. The fact that this sort of attitude is prevalent among some LEOs/LEAs should be equally concerning.

cr250chevy
02-07-2010, 11:08 PM
Hes been flamed, because someone who is meant to serve and protect has a different agenda and he has clearly stated what his preference would be to civilian types i doubt being armed or not makes little difference to his mind set. As long as he could get away with it then its just fine. I believe his idea of what serve and protect should mean is greatly skewed in his eyes.
I would hate myself or one of my family members to cross this guys path wether it be just a traffic stop or lesser reason.
To act like his words were been taken out of context is a complete irresponsibility of anyone reading what he wrote.
Do not be blind sided by saying we have bigger hurtles to climb than this one.
This is now and should be dealt with as such, before we regret doing nothing until a later date.
You are insulting all cops if you think this is typical of there nature and to end by saying Get over it, tells me you are not a concerned citizen but a me me citizen.


Look just to clarify, He SHOULDN'T have said what he said. And yes it does bring up some concern to me as well, however I don't think we should be so rash to jump to the conclusion that he would be so willing to look for a reason(s) to kill someone in real life...

dantodd
02-07-2010, 11:08 PM
If he is ever in a shooting he and his department better hope the shootee's attorney can't use google.

N6ATF
02-07-2010, 11:09 PM
This wasn't a public statement.

How do you define public? Ignorance of Facebook's privacy settings does not make everything you do there non-public.

Means=loaded guns and rifles
Motive=disdain for the Constitution and all who exercise their rights
Opportunity=being in a position of power to do practically anything to anyone with impunity

steadyrock
02-07-2010, 11:09 PM
yeah - that is kinda my take. This wasn't a public statement. Is it worth a looksee? maybe, but that kind of jokey joke talk is pretty prevalent among some LEOs from what I can tell.

Note to self - don't tell any off color jokes to calgunners or on facebook.

Remember the old adage, "Many a truth is told in jest". This is as revealing of Detective Tuason's thought process as were the quotes I linked to earlier about the LAPD officers' thought processes in 1991. And you saw what happened then.

And I'd like to think most Calgunners can handle an off-color joke or two. Just don't "joke" about murdering us, please. :mad:

wildhawker
02-07-2010, 11:11 PM
FWIW many employers I know require candidates for employment to add them to their social networking sites for pre-employment screening and monitoring while employed. Social networking is not private communication.

cr250chevy
02-07-2010, 11:13 PM
Look just to clarify, He SHOULDN'T have said what he said. And yes it does bring up some concern to me as well, however I don't think we should be so rash to jump to the conclusion that he would be so willing to look for a reason(s) to kill someone in real life...

Edit: 11:11pm
And should he undergo an I.A. and possibly resubmit for a psych exam for this post?- yes...

rkt88edmo
02-07-2010, 11:17 PM
Off color jokes aside (and I think it's a bit of a reach to simply dismiss this as "boys will be boys"), replace "gun owner/2A advocate" with "black", "GLBT", "old", "woman" etc. and I think we would agree that proning an innocent with an AR is an unaccepetable civil rights violation. The fact that this sort of attitude is prevalent among some LEOs/LEAs should be equally concerning.


How many UOC guys have had the same stuff said to them directly by LEOs? "oh well, we never know if its you or a bad guy when we get a MWG call" I think the veiled or direct threat of felony stop treatment has been made in quite a few videod conversations that LEO had with UOC guys WHILE IN UNIFORM WHILE KNOWING THEY ARE ON VIDEO (granted none of them probably made a 2 week admin leave joke)

Someone who follows UOC closely can probably verify or dispell that.

nrvnqsrxk
02-07-2010, 11:17 PM
He was stupid in that he said what he did on the internetz. Everything written is meant to be read. On the internet, it just happens to be recorded somewhere as well.

rkt88edmo
02-07-2010, 11:22 PM
FWIW many employers I know require candidates for employment to add them to their social networking sites for pre-employment screening and monitoring while employed. Social networking is not private communication.

I know that and you know that, but most people still don't realize that.

eric2063
02-07-2010, 11:23 PM
dantodd: If he is ever in a shooting he and his department better hope the shootee's attorney can't use google

Oh it goes much deeper than being in an officer involved shooting, like have there been any use of force complaints filed against the officer? Well he is open to civil liability huge now. If any complaints are filed after this; his "little" FB boo boo will be is going to be the defense/plaintive’s exhibit A. No he has trashed his LEO career pretty good with this little stunt, just like getting caught perjuring yourself, you can't un-ring the bell.

JDoe
02-07-2010, 11:25 PM
High school students making similar comments would have been expelled for similar comments.

Employees of some (many?) employers would have been fired for similar comments.

The very fact that the detective in question is able to publicly articulate how to commit a murder and get away with it is very disturbing. Want to prone out a UOCer and blow them away? All you need to do is suggest that you observed the dead man making a "furtive movement" and you get a "two week vacation."

Now that is disturbing beyond words.

FastFinger
02-07-2010, 11:26 PM
The opinions here are interesting - and telling. Even on a forum comprised of people who are extremely pro-2A it's easy to see that some are ready to give the guy a pass.

Now let's extrapolate that into what might happen if the press covers this story. Do you think the odds are that the reporter will side with the "cut the guy some slack" or the "this attitude is unacceptable and potentially dangerous" viewpoints?

Keep in mind that few reports are truly unbiased, most come down on one side or another - there is usually a winner, and a loser. If the "cut the guy some slack" side prevails it will be justified by painting the 2A proponents as not just wrong, but reactionary, somehow we did something that deserves to be treated in hostile "shoot 'em now, ask questions later" manner. In this state, with our media - that is the prevailing default angle.

The "this attitude is unacceptable and potentially dangerous" stand is the underdog. Absent our well measured input, this message has zero chance of being presented adequately if the media is left to cover the story with just the LEO and EPA city spokesman being interviewed.

Realistically probably the best we can hope for is a push, but that will not happen by itself. Although it's not what should be reported, even that outcome will not prevail unless we take proactive steps to champion and promote it.

hoffmang
02-07-2010, 11:28 PM
Gents,

The officer is out of line. However, I suggest we'll use this situation to open a conversation with EPA PD to make sure that it's made clear that the comments in question are unacceptable while hopefully getting EPA PD trained on what appropriate responses to UOC are.

-Gene

twotap
02-07-2010, 11:28 PM
Maybe he was talkin out his a-- but his overall atitude is what is in question.I have run across many leo with this same outlook on us average citizens. It makes any contact with them very unpleasent. They have done this to themselves and simply do not care cause they have the badge and gun.For this reason I believe our 2A rights are seriously in danger of disappearing altogether unless a group is willing to fight for it .As you see ,in the minds of le we are expendable .Just time off and a beer with the boys. JM 1.5 cents

Window_Seat
02-07-2010, 11:28 PM
I looked up "Rod Tuason", but there is no FB page on him, so I think he might have completely taken it down, or hidden it, or something. By doing that, he is making an admission of "I really screwed up", no?

I have a feeling that there might be too much damage for the EPAP, and Tuason to control at this point, and if this dude isn't defecating bricks & urinating cement right about this moment, he might be doing so after he realizes that he hasn't been back to work after that 2 weeks is up. Just my thought on it.

Erik.

eric2063
02-07-2010, 11:30 PM
+ 10000 Gene, a much better approach and lets the underdog opinion have a fighting chance.

cbn620
02-07-2010, 11:36 PM
Even if he was only talking foolishness and joking, I really don't see why that matters. He's an officer of the law, he has immense privilege and more power than the average citizen. With that power comes an enormous amount of responsibility. The police should be held to a higher standard, and no, we should not give them a pass or a break on things like this.

He has to be held responsible for his actions. If he's not mature enough to accept that, and not mature enough to put a foot in his mouth before saying righteously stupid stuff like he did, maybe he shouldn't be a police officer.

pitchbaby
02-07-2010, 11:42 PM
Even if he was only talking foolishness and joking, I really don't see why that matters. He's an officer of the law, he has immense privilege and more power than the average citizen. With that power comes an enormous amount of responsibility. The police should be held to a higher standard, and no, we should not give them a pass or a break on things like this.

He has to be held responsible for his actions. If he's not mature enough to accept that, and not mature enough to put a foot in his mouth before saying righteously stupid stuff like he did, maybe he shouldn't be a police officer.

Doubly Agree!!!

eric2063
02-07-2010, 11:45 PM
I didn't say he was right and yes they should be held to a higher standard. I strongly feel he is out of line and needs to be educated on how to deal with these situations. Do these bad LEO's exist? Yes, is it right hell no, they need to be taken to task for it. I am not defending nor condoning them joking about this, what I am saying is this cat most likely is the officer that has a lot of complaints for roughing people up, getting happy with the taser and is the bad cop we have all heard about.
I said what I did because the guys I know that have been in combat, have been in officer involved shootings or both do not joke about it to other people that were not there or have not been in the same position period!

cr250chevy
02-07-2010, 11:52 PM
So, are you saying if he made the same comment about any of the other groups of people I mentioned you would also stand up for him because the one statement isn't enough to say he's a racist or homophobe, etc. Is that correct?

Your question is completely out of context, its a different topic and I'd have to read what he wrote...
And I NEVER said what he said was OK...

ChrisO
02-07-2010, 11:56 PM
Like I said in the other thread he needs his A** reamed. The comments he made on his FB are quite troublesome. You would think a detective would be a little smarter than that but obviously this guy has some major malfunction.

battleship
02-07-2010, 11:59 PM
He shouldn't be a police officer, there are far better men and women out there to take his place, he is expendable in his work place like anyone of us are.
I will not cut anyone any slack for making not a joke but lengthy remarks about killing someone for the time off.
I hope he is carrying a cross and a crown of thorns by the time internal affairs gets through with him.
There are plenty of great police officers out there who have much pride in what they do on a daily basis. They perform this difficult job with a sense of normality about them.
There here on calguns, ive bought guns from them, even talked to them at the range or in the gun stores. Behind the badge and uniforn they are you and i with familys at home, wifes and children to go home to after there shift.
They do not ponder about taking the AR out to deal with an individual unless it is a life threatening situation, for which they are trained.
What this guy said is an admission as to what he would love to do to someone, yes i say love even though he did not use that word it is clearly somthing he thinks and possibly hope to accomplish someday as long as he can make it seem like it was warranted.
It disgusts me that anyone here would have such a ambivalent attitude to this individual, in doing so you could cost someone there lifes in the future, maybe even yours.

Roadrunner
02-08-2010, 12:04 AM
-Detective Roderick Tuason (talking about recent contact with UOC'ing citizens)
650-853-7244 / PD's anonymous tip line at 650-853-8477

Detective Tuason's Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=649326089&ref=ts

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g188/rickeepoo/ramrod.gif

Let's recap Tuason's comments; notice I said comments. I can't stress all of the vids I've watched and eyewitness accounts I've read regarding the police's contempt for UOC. UOCers are handcuffed, had weapons drawn on them, police telling UOCers to call them everytime they get a cup of coffee, told they could pose a threat to officer safety, had the serial numbers run on their firearms and generally a UOCers life is made miserable because they dare do a legal act that some police don't like. I find that contemptible, and I think Tuason's comments are simply a reflection of that attitude. I would also add that police have no regrets putting a person in jail for doing something they ignorantly believe is illegal even though it's legal. Let's not forget Blackwater Ops stint in the tower hotel, compliments of his local police department. I can only imagine what other degrading comments police make about citizens on cop pages. Perhaps we should infiltrate those websites and shine the light there as well.

drea1091a
02-08-2010, 12:05 AM
Actually lets get it straight, this wasn't a post in an open forum, this was a comment on Facebook that looks like it was meant to be read by a friend. Coincidentally the friend's name has been blocked out. Then you find the guys work information and post that online too?

I've been poking around these forums without posting for a little while, but this thread forced me to have to speak up. I can't believe how you are reacting to this. This was not an on camera or print interview.

The Comment where the officer makes the offense remark doesn't say specifically which incident he was referring too. Could be referring to someone carrying illegally. We don't know, because the comment is directed to a friend (the one who's name is blocked out.) He doesn't say he wants to go out and shoot someone, only if the person makes a "Furtive" movement. I'm sorry, if I'm a cop and someone is walking around with a gun and makes a movement that makes me believe they could hurt me, I'm gonna shoot them.

Kinda chicken sh*t don't you think? To harvest comments off your friend's facebook page and anonymously post them on an open forum(after you blocked out your friend's name) and try to go after someone's job? How is this not a violation of the forum policies?

I am pro 2nd amendment. I try to do my part to support my local gun stores, I teach anyone who will let me how to shoot and do my best to educate others on 2nd amendment issues, but I think Open Carry is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of. I think it does more damage to the gun rights movement that good.

Also, have any of you been to EPA? I think the officer makes a good point about someone being jacked for their gun. Walking around a high crime area by yourself with a gun on your hip is setting yourself up to be a target. You think they couldn't run up to you from behind, hit you in the head and take your gun?

I can't believe this thread has gone on this far, this is the exact attitude that the anti-gunners use to make us all look like we are nuts.

Maestro Pistolero
02-08-2010, 12:06 AM
The guy is now a huge liability for the department. Even if he gets into a clean shooting on duty, the department loses millions n a civil suit because of his public comments. He is useless now. I'd lay odds he gets administrative leave within a day or two, then is processed out according to dept. procedure.

dantodd
02-08-2010, 12:07 AM
Your question is completely out of context, its a different topic and I'd have to read what he wrote...
And I NEVER said what he said was OK...

In all honesty why are you guys flaming this guy?- its only b/c he has some negative comments about citizens w/ guns, big deal we have bigger hurtles to climb over than this guy! He's just expressing typical cop talk, its just a joke, GET OVER IT!

I believe the question to be completely in context. If you would like an actual example I will provide it.

If instead of:
Sounds like you had someone practicing their second amendment rights last night! Should have pulled the AR out and prone them all out! And if one of them made a furtive movement...2 weeks off!!!

Ron had said:
Sounds like you had some gays last night! Should have pulled the AR out and prone them all out! And if one of them made a furtive movement...2 weeks off!!!

Would you feel that need investigation and paints him as both trigger happy and a homophobe? Or would you say: "He's just expressing typical cop talk, its just a joke, GET OVER IT!" as you did when it was a gun rights advocate he was talking about murdering?

dantodd
02-08-2010, 12:11 AM
Also, have any of you been to EPA? I think the officer makes a good point about someone being jacked for their gun. Walking around a high crime area by yourself with a gun on your hip is setting yourself up to be a target.

That's an excellent point actually about the jacking. Because I suspect that Detective Ron might get in a lot more trouble for the multiple references to the largely African American populace as "turds." While I'm not a big fan of throwing the racism card "turds" in context sounds an awful lot like a code word. I suspect the city council and PD are more worried about upsetting the population with that than a couple UOCers.

bigcalidave
02-08-2010, 12:18 AM
Actually lets get it straight, this wasn't a post in an open forum, this was a comment on Facebook that looks like it was meant to be read by a friend. Coincidentally the friend's name has been blocked out. Then you find the guys work information and post that online too?

I've been poking around these forums without posting for a little while, but this thread forced me to have to speak up. I can't believe how you are reacting to this. This was not an on camera or print interview.

The Comment where the officer makes the offense remark doesn't say specifically which incident he was referring too. Could be referring to someone carrying illegally. We don't know, because the comment is directed to a friend (the one who's name is blocked out.) He doesn't say he wants to go out and shoot someone, only if the person makes a "Furtive" movement. I'm sorry, if I'm a cop and someone is walking around with a gun and makes a movement that makes me believe they could hurt me, I'm gonna shoot them.

Kinda chicken sh*t don't you think? To harvest comments off your friend's facebook page and anonymously post them on an open forum(after you blocked out your friend's name) and try to go after someone's job? How is this not a violation of the forum policies?

I am pro 2nd amendment. I try to do my part to support my local gun stores, I teach anyone who will let me how to shoot and do my best to educate others on 2nd amendment issues, but I think Open Carry is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of. I think it does more damage to the gun rights movement that good.

Also, have any of you been to EPA? I think the officer makes a good point about someone being jacked for their gun. Walking around a high crime area by yourself with a gun on your hip is setting yourself up to be a target. You think they couldn't run up to you from behind, hit you in the head and take your gun?

I can't believe this thread has gone on this far, this is the exact attitude that the anti-gunners use to make us all look like we are nuts.

Please read the thread for every answer to your issues with this forum. This is someone who is supposed to be held to a higher standard, making jokes about killing US. There is no excuse, people who think it was ok because it's a joke need to get back with reality. And it is NOT PRIVATE. You don't post private things on a SOCIAL WEBSITE. There is NO expectation of privacy on these sites.

I can't believe a detective would post that. His job should be at serious risk now, and for a good reason. It's obscene to think that he would have proned out a group of UOCers and shot them if they moved.

drea1091a
02-08-2010, 12:20 AM
There was absolutely no reference to race in any of the comments made my the officer. A quick google search, (which some people really seem to like to do on here) "Racial make up of East Palo Alto" shows that EPA is 65-70% Hispanic. I take Turd to mean people who are up to no good and have no racial connotation.

That's an excellent point actually about the jacking. Because I suspect that Detective Ron might get in a lot more trouble for the multiple references to the largely African American populace as "turds." While I'm not a big fan of throwing the racism card "turds" in context sounds an awful lot like a code word. I suspect the city council and PD are more worried about upsetting the population with that than a couple UOCers.

.45shooter
02-08-2010, 1:08 AM
Ok here it goes! I was reluctant to comment however i wanted to ensure that my comments left on the facebook page was cleared up! I at no time meant for anyone to be hurt! I merely wanted to extend to my friend and officer an officer safety issue! We deal many man with a gun/ shots fired scenario's we must stay consitent and treat each call as they were real. Do not deviate from your training and do what you do on any given call consistently!

With that said i have been a LONG time supportter of calguns as well as 2a rights! I may have even made purchases from you! I know that doesn't negate the fact of my comment. And i will own up to the comment and be a man about it and take my licks so however they maybe! I know now that there are certain comments or expression of views are better off not said! My mistake!

Now when it comes down to the advocates to UOC i admire your spirit and drive! This thread shows how passionate you are about your right to carry. On the same token that drive and passion should be directed to education! There was a post stating that we as officers need to look up the PC code! Your right. Have you seen how thick that book is? We simply cannot remember every law out there!

The last and most recent incident we had of an UOC I as well as some other's provided sunnyvales memo regarding open carry and well as documents on the open carry website to patrol officers.

Now all this doesn't excuse the fact that i made a comment that doesnt reflect the views of the department i work for! Nor does it reflect my own gun right views! I should have chosen my words a lot better or better yet kept my mouth shut!

Good night!

NorCalMama
02-08-2010, 1:13 AM
Ok here it goes! I was reluctant to comment however i wanted to ensure that my comments left on the facebook page was cleared up! I at no time meant for anyone to be hurt! I merely wanted to extend to my friend and officer an officer safety issue! We deal many man with a gun/ shots fired scenario's we must stay consitent and treat each call as they were real. Do not deviate from your training and do what you do on any given call consistently!

With that said i have been a LONG time supportter of calguns as well as 2a rights! I may have even made purchases from you! I know that doesn't negate the fact of my comment. And i will own up to the comment and be a man about it and take my licks so however they maybe! I know now that there are certain comments or expression of views are better off not said! My mistake!

Now when it comes down to the advocates to UOC i admire your spirit and drive! This thread shows how passionate you are about your right to carry. On the same token that drive and passion should be directed to education! There was a post stating that we as officers need to look up the PC code! Your right. Have you seen how thick that book is? We simply cannot remember every law out there!

The last and most recent incident we had of an UOC I as well as some other's provided sunnyvales memo regarding open carry and well as documents on the open carry website to patrol officers.

Now all this doesn't excuse the fact that i made a comment that doesnt reflect the views of the department i work for! Nor does it reflect my own gun right views! I should have chosen my words a lot better or better yet kept my mouth shut!

Good night!



Wait... what??? So the FB post was yours? I tend to jump to conclusions and want to be "crystal" on this...

And I just want to note, what you said about the laws, well, we have to know them, so I would hope that LEOs would too...

technique
02-08-2010, 1:14 AM
This, is why I'm still awake...

twotap
02-08-2010, 1:17 AM
me 3

Alaric
02-08-2010, 1:20 AM
Well, I'll be hornswoggled. Perhaps Calgunners really are their own worst enemies.

bigcalidave
02-08-2010, 1:20 AM
Really hoping that 45shooter isn't the one who wants to shoot UOCers.
Like I said, no excuse for that, no apologizing. That attitude is disgusting.

.45shooter
02-08-2010, 1:21 AM
It wasnt my page however it was my comment that stirred the hornets nest! After reading all the post i figured it would be best to address the masses versus hide from them! I know i will get pitch forked by all the posters. Im not afraid to admit fault! I will admit wrong choice of words especially when i thought i had a private audience. But i wont us that as an out! I should have known better to keep certain things to myslef of to those in my own inner circle!

Sometimes sacastic or off color humor should be best kept in the confines of those you can confide in. I forgot the golden rule of whos watching and listenting to you! I know i ruffled alot of feathers by making that comment! But as a person i did not mean no harm to anyone. Those that know me know my form of humor after all i'm a former Marine!

So to those that took this the wrong way i apologize! I didnt mean for it to go the way it did! I know i shouldnt have said what i said but i said no point in denying it! On one note to my buddies friend you know who posted my comment ill be more than glad to have a drink or two!

NorCalMama
02-08-2010, 1:24 AM
The thing that concerns me is NOT the wording, which is the only thing being apologized for. It's the heart and attitude that led to the words.

I should have known better to keep certain things to myslef of to those in my own inner circle!
I think that about sums it up right there...

bigcalidave
02-08-2010, 1:24 AM
-Detective Roderick Tuason (talking about recent contact with UOC'ing citizens)
650-853-7244 / PD's anonymous tip line at 650-853-8477

Detective Tuason's Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=649326089&ref=ts

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g188/rickeepoo/ramrod.gif

Are you the one posting as Rod Tuason? Or the original comment about not doing OC in "hoity toity" cities?

technique
02-08-2010, 1:25 AM
I knew this was coming, we have seen it before. The Ca gun community is a "small world" so to say. I have many a CGers as FB friends.

I'm gonna let 45shooters comments sink in, maybe reply in the morning. (if this is still here.

45shooter,

In short. Thanks for owning up. It's really all the more disturbing to know that you are a member. I can't begin to fathom why you would speak about gun owners/advocates of gun rights this way.

That is all for now.

dantodd
02-08-2010, 1:27 AM
.45

I am quite saddened that it was one of our own that was so cavalier about taking the life of another person, especially a 2A activist.

As this is now in the public domain it is a bell that, as others have pointed out, cannot be unrung.

It speaks a lot about you as a man to step forward and accept responsibility. I hope others will accept your mea culpa in the forums and not dogpile. You will have enough to deal with on your next shift.

I do fear that what some have said regarding the defensibility of any force you may use in the future or have used in the past is accurate.

Alaric
02-08-2010, 1:31 AM
I'm trying to reconcile this:

It wasnt my page however it was my comment that stirred the hornets nest! After reading all the post i figured it would be best to address the masses versus hide from them! I know i will get pitch forked by all the posters. Im not afraid to admit fault! I will admit wrong choice of words especially when i thought i had a private audience. But i wont us that as an out! I should have known better to keep certain things to myslef of to those in my own inner circle!

With this:

Sounds like you had someone practicing their 2nd amendment rights last night! Should've pulled the AR out and prone them all out! And if one of them made a furtive movement...2 weeks off!!!

Why would you say that about someone practicing their 2nd Amd. rights if you support the 2nd Amd.? Does. Not. Compute.

I applaud your honesty in coming forward, but your explanation so far sounds a bit lacking. You speak of training and speaking to your intended audience... that really doesn't explain your apparent hostility to 2nd Amd. activists. Are you saying that the law enforcement community is so hostile to us that to fit in you have to talk and make jokes about persecuting and executing us?

Maestro Pistolero
02-08-2010, 1:32 AM
Let's be clear. .45shooter, are we to understand that you are the detective that posted the FB comments? This may seem obvious, But something ain't passing the smell test here. Please tell us which comment, exactly, did you make that you are owning up to? Thanks.

obeygiant
02-08-2010, 1:39 AM
Are you the one posting as Rod Tuason? Or the original comment about not doing OC in "hoity toity" cities?

That is the question that needs to be answered here.

rkt88edmo
02-08-2010, 1:50 AM
That is the question that needs to be answered here.

I'll just chime in to say that there is strong indication to me that he is Rod - which is not based on his post, which does also read that way.

At least he has 100% itrader - otherwise he really would have been F'd.

Carry on with the pillorying.

bigcalidave
02-08-2010, 1:51 AM
He has plenty of itrader, someone should be able to chime in on this soon, if we don't hear back from .45.

Racefiend
02-08-2010, 1:52 AM
While interesting, this turn of events is quite disappointing.

StudioDison
02-08-2010, 2:00 AM
Called and left a message. I hope they fire his ***. What a friggin maroon.

Us vs. Them, exemplified and set in stone.

Should I FB message him or what?

You should send a signed copy of your magazine cover

battleship
02-08-2010, 2:27 AM
So this is your attempt to do damage control and salvage just what?

You can not put back together the bomb you verbally detonated on face book you clearly were targeting civilians and all of your fellow calgunners with your approach to open carry but all was done in jest, HARDLY.

You must believe you have two heads on your shoulders the one you use around your fellow officers and the one you put forth while being a member on calguns, simply put you are two faced. and not believable not now or in the future, you have done it to yourself and have only yourself to blame.

Now you are a casualty to your own arrogance.

I wonder what else you say about the rest of us 2A supporters, considering what you wrote, i would expect it to be ten fold in your inner circle of friends.

You will not get any kudo's from me for outing yourself you have only done that to try and stop the snow ball which is coming your way.

I think you need two weeks of just to consider your foolish words.

On a related note to Comments about no one open carrying in bad neighbor hoods such as around Oakland and Richmond, seriously why would anyone do that, what would be the point, its not that we wish to go looking for trouble with the local criminals walking the streets. Your missing the whole point as to why and where people choose to open carry, if they reside in Contra Costa there more than likely going to exercise there right to open carry around were they live, it makes no sense to say they dont go to bad neighborhoods as they wouldnt be going there if they choose not to open carry so i dont get what your trying to convey. You guys patrol the bad neighbor hoods thats part of your job. Most of us have no interest in going there with or with out an unloaded gun on our belt. Dont you get it? Its about civil liberties and our right to exercise them and at the same time protect ourselves to the extent laid down by the law. More often than not its done in the area that we live in or around, Makes sense! Not about walking down some crack infested Gangster ridden street in Richmond or east Oakland.
You really dont do yourself a service when you make stupid comments like that.
I could go on but you upset me to much for now.

oaklander
02-08-2010, 4:02 AM
Yes, let's joke about shooting gun owners, in the back, with an AR15. That's really funny, don't you think?

He's just expressing typical cop talk, its just a joke, GET OVER IT!

oaklander
02-08-2010, 4:22 AM
It's him. Same dog in the avatar as in other photos posted publicly by him.

That being said, all of his FB posts in the screenshot were over the line. One can't say something egregious and then retract it because they (1) we "just kidding," and (2) didn't think others would see it.

Certain things you do not kid about.

Pity on this, I think I even sold him an AK parts kit about 18 months ago. Seemed like a nice guy at the time.

45 - let me turn this around so you can understand WHY people are angry.

What if I was to post something on my FB page even joking about killing Filipinos? It would certainly piss you off, and would piss off a lot of your friends and family. In fact, once the larger Filipino community got hold of it, I would be toast. Here, you are "joking" about killing the very people who welcomed you onto the forum. Can you not see why people are angry?

Your post in reply to this topic was tepid at best. If you want to maintain credibility, you really need to come out with a MAJOR apology. That might fix things here. On the other hand, your career, as Lex pointed out, is toast.

I'll just chime in to say that there is strong indication to me that he is Rod - which is not based on his post, which does also read that way.

At least he has 100% itrader - otherwise he really would have been F'd.

Carry on with the pillorying.

Lex Arma
02-08-2010, 4:34 AM
2. This is why UOC is a bad idea. This guy outed himself. How many other trigger-happy *****holes are out there? How many of them are scaring rookies who will make a fatal mistake. We are on the cusp of getting shall-issue CCW in this state. Nobody needs to die to secure the right to bear arms.

The backlash here could just as easily be outlawing UOC. With the Oakland City Council meeting coming up, mainstream 2A rights organizations (NRA, SAF, maybe even CalGuns) will be forced to publically repudiate UOC. An unfortunate circumstance.

Are all you grandstanding UOCers happy now?

Let me clarify my comments here because some of you are misinterpreting what I am saying. I am not opposed to UOC because of symbolism. For Christsakes, I am the Nordyke attorney. I made the "possession of firearms as symbolic of RKBA" argument to the Ninth Circuit. {still pending} I didn't get laughed out of court because I controlled the how, why, when, who and what of the proposition that possession = communication. I got the trial judge and the County of Alameda to concede the factual proposition, even though I still have to convince Appellate Judges of the First Amendment issues.

UOC does not take place in a controlled environment. This cop's statements are inflammatory. They will get press, and in the Bay Area, probably the wrong kind of press. They (anti-gun politicians) will just get a lot of cops to close ranks behind this guy and say that UOC makes them all nervous, even if this one officer said something stupid. And then they will all testify before the Public Safety Committee in Sacramento about how this wastes scarce police resources, creates a volatile confrontation that may be a tragedy waiting to happen and then the UOC ban gets passed as emergency legislation -- cause "if it can save just one life....."

Ok, I admit that I have a personal bias here with a pending case at stake. I don't want amateurs screwing up a legal theory I have been working on through 10 years of litigation. But I do want to point out some non-Nordyke related issues.

UOC is grandstanding. You are drawing attention to yourself, which is not the best tactical posture of someone who just wants to mind his/her own business, while carrying around the means of self-defense. Your symbolism needs to make more than a personal statement "look at me." It needs to change the minds of policy makers (and/or judges), you won't do that in CA by being confrontational with a weapon. We are on the verge of shall-issue CCW in this state via McDonald/Nordyke/Sykes. A UOC controversy gives the other side grist for their fog machine (sorry for the mixed metaphor). An anti-gun press, and anti-gun activists, and anti-gun politicians will churn this issue for all its worth. Why? Because they are losing and they are desperate. And those of you stubbornly engaging in UOC are handing them an issue on a silver platter.

It's all about timing people. But it is also about resources. For every stupid law UOC inspires in Sacramento, Oakland, L.A., we have to spend the time/money trying to overturn that law, instead of concentrating on bigger issues.

Strategy is important here. Your 15 minutes of fame can wait for another day.

oaklander
02-08-2010, 4:43 AM
+1

And for teh newbs, Lex is Don Kilmer.

I suggest that people listen to him, he's not new to this fight, and knows how things work.


Strategy is important here. Your 15 minutes of fame can wait for another day.

hollabillz
02-08-2010, 4:44 AM
*Level-headed wisdom*

And yet, people will still UOC by the hundred. And anyone who politely insists they stand down will be accused of "eating their own kind". :rolleyes:

Do they not realize we'd be in the exact same place, no, we'd be ahead, if it wasn't for the UOC "movement"? No Peets and CPK gun bans, juvenile SFGate whiny rants, Brady Campaign arm waving, nor otherwise normal CGF members turned homicidal cops, and subsequent destructive press?

Alright, I'm done. Yes, I'm a freedom-hating commie turd, no need to reply. :o

NSR500
02-08-2010, 4:59 AM
Ok here it goes! I was reluctant to comment however i wanted to ensure that my comments left on the facebook page was cleared up! I at no time meant for anyone to be hurt! I merely wanted to extend to my friend and officer an officer safety issue! We deal many man with a gun/ shots fired scenario's we must stay consitent and treat each call as they were real. Do not deviate from your training and do what you do on any given call consistently!

With that said i have been a LONG time supportter of calguns as well as 2a rights! I may have even made purchases from you! I know that doesn't negate the fact of my comment. And i will own up to the comment and be a man about it and take my licks so however they maybe! I know now that there are certain comments or expression of views are better off not said! My mistake!

Now when it comes down to the advocates to UOC i admire your spirit and drive! This thread shows how passionate you are about your right to carry. On the same token that drive and passion should be directed to education! There was a post stating that we as officers need to look up the PC code! Your right. Have you seen how thick that book is? We simply cannot remember every law out there!

The last and most recent incident we had of an UOC I as well as some other's provided sunnyvales memo regarding open carry and well as documents on the open carry website to patrol officers.

Now all this doesn't excuse the fact that i made a comment that doesnt reflect the views of the department i work for! Nor does it reflect my own gun right views! I should have chosen my words a lot better or better yet kept my mouth shut!

Good night!

Let me help you keep your mouth shut by adding you to my ignore list. Seeing as how you make a lot of transactions on Calguns, I never want to deal with you.
As an LEO and former USMC you should know you're supposed to conduct yourself in a more professional manner than regular folk. After all, you're supposed to be the sheep dog protecting the flock from predators.
Looks like you may just be no better than the thugs you're supposed to go after.

MP301
02-08-2010, 5:34 AM
I dont know where to start. I spend an equal amount of time in defense of LE as i do in calling it out when its wrong. So Im not going to change my ways now....

.45Shooter:

You, my friend, (and I use that term loosely), have a few serious problems. You said something very bad which cannot be justified in any way. It cannot be taken back either. You said things that you know, or reasonably should have known, were not going to be taken lightly or in jest. Thinking that no one would know except someone who appeared to have the same view is no excuse.

When your messages were discovered you made a weak apology on this forum, but not because of what you said/thought, but because you got caught. What people say when they think those they are talking about cant hear them is very telling.

I saw no "J/K" or "Just Kidding" words at the end of your messages. Would you/do you joke about "furtive movement" or "two-weeks off" for any other group of people? Gays, blacks, hispanics maybe?

Maybe you were not serious about the "Two Weeks Off" comment (and im not convinced about that), but what is apparent is your contempt for regular folk protecting themselves. No amount of apologizing, weak or otherwise, will put that cat back in the bag. You have been outted as the hypocrit that you are it would seem.

Im curious, what exactly causes you to hate regular people with guns? What's with the elitist "BECAUSE I ARE A COP AND YOUR NOT"???? attitude? You always there to stop bad things from happening to good people..all by yourself? All the time? Ever?

What makes you any more special then regular folk or other LEO's that dont harbor the same ill will that you do? You have a right to protect yourself, but no one else does - unless they belong do that special little group of superior beings like you?

I really have no idea what will happen to you over all of this,(if anything), and im not sure what punishment is warranted exactly. But if any good comes out of this, it will be your personal epiphany that you were/are wrong for thinking the way you do about regular people with guns.

I wont get into what I think should happen to you, but I will watch what happens with great interest.

bodger
02-08-2010, 7:00 AM
Certain things you do not kid about.

Exactly.
I've never seen a post from a UOC advocate that "kidded" about shooting a cop because of a furtive move.

Career over for this guy. I hope. Sorry to see he's one of the LEOs we have as CalGun member.

And by the way Detective Rod /.45 Shooter, after you are fired from your law enforcement job and can no longer legally carry concealed, I will be laughing at you, because now you too can only "dream of getting a CCW".

It's him. Same dog in the avatar as in other photos posted publicly by him.

That being said, all of his FB posts in the screenshot were over the line. One can't say something egregious and then retract it because they (1) we "just kidding," and (2) didn't think others would see it.

Certain things you do not kid about.

Pity on this, I think I even sold him an AK parts kit about 18 months ago. Seemed like a nice guy at the time.

45 - let me turn this around so you can understand WHY people are angry.

What if I was to post something on my FB page even joking about killing Filipinos? It would certainly piss you off, and would piss off a lot of your friends and family. In fact, once the larger Filipino community got hold of it, I would be toast. Here, you are "joking" about killing the very people who welcomed you onto the forum. Can you not see why people are angry?

Your post in reply to this topic was tepid at best. If you want to maintain credibility, you really need to come out with a MAJOR apology. That might fix things here. On the other hand, your career, as Lex pointed out, is toast.

D-Man
02-08-2010, 7:03 AM
My concern is that this guy is a detective, not some rookie cop, and this is his attitude? That seems to tell me it is pervasive throughout that department, towards CCW and all 2A supporters. To me it shows the exact reason we all want to be able to get CCWs without having to be beholden to people like this who make the decisions. Can't wait for shall issue in this state. How many more SO / PDs are like this guy? Scary thought.

Mitch
02-08-2010, 7:07 AM
It's about citizens being concerned that a police officer is so callous about killing a civilian, even referring to the act as a "vacation"!

Quick reminder: police officers are civilians, too.

bodger
02-08-2010, 7:24 AM
My concern is that this guy is a detective, not some rookie cop, and this is his attitude? That seems to tell me it is pervasive throughout that department, towards CCW and all 2A supporters. To me it shows the exact reason we all want to be able to get CCWs without having to be beholden to people like this who make the decisions. Can't wait for shall issue in this state. How many more SO / PDs are like this guy? Scary thought.


Indeed. How much hand slapping and high fiving goes on after they've violated a UOCer rights and jacked him around.

And not only this department, how many others. Makes me think that to UOC is a lot more dangerous that I ever thought it was.
Two weeks off if you kill a person in the act of UOC, and call it a good shoot because of a furtive move? How about you get the rest of your career off for saying that.

Home Depot is hiring, Rod, you can check receipts (well, some CalGunners won't let you) as people are leaving the store.

artherd
02-08-2010, 7:26 AM
Well this is seriously troubling. When police have lost touch with reality to such a degree that they make threats in public domain to those they are supposed to serve - we've all lost.

CGF is going to get involved, but really the duty is upon all LEO to remind themselves why they got in this in the first place - or to quit if they cannot hack it.

Your job is too important, much more important than you or me.

bodger
02-08-2010, 7:31 AM
Well this is seriously troubling. When police have lost touch with reality to such a degree that they make threats in public domain to those they are supposed to serve - we've all lost.

CGF is going to get involved, but really the duty is upon all LEO to remind themselves why they got in this in the first place - or to quit if they cannot hack it.

Your job is too important, much more important than you or me.


The first thing this cop's department needs to do is dis-arm this guy. Get him off the street and not carrying a firearm.
If they don't, they are endangering the public.

There have been TROs placed on people for saying what this guy said.

loather
02-08-2010, 7:34 AM
This is both incomprehensible and reprehensible. The fact that a member of our community -- a law enforcement officer at that -- would make statements like this with such malicious intent is completely inexcusable.

"Oh, but it's a joke," or "I was just kidding," and statements like, "I should keep comments like this to my own inner circle," only go to show a complete lack of remorse for the past statements.

Law enforcement officers are supposed to be upstanding, model citizens and community role models who respect the law and uphold it with righteous conviction. Holding one of society's most basic laws in such contempt is intolerable by any, but when done by one in a position of power it is indefensible. It's no wonder the crime rate remains high when the ones enforcing the laws are summarily indistinguishable from the thugs they're meant to arrest.

You simply don't joke about murdering anyone. Period. .45shooter, I hope they rake you across the coals with impunity.

ETA: It's long been said not to attribute to malice that which can easily and adequately explained by stupidity, but I'll make a notable exception in this case. Stupidity simply isn't this malicious.

pullnshoot25
02-08-2010, 7:35 AM
WOW. I go to bed and THIS occurs. I never thought I would see the day but alas, I have!

Kestryll
02-08-2010, 7:41 AM
45Shooter has outed himself and stepped in to the discussion.
That was his choice and likely not an easy one to make.

His words carry consequences as do all of ours and that is something he's going to have to live and deal with.

That said while I understand the frustration on many people's part this situation is not special nor an exception to the rules.
Talk with him, share your views and feelings on what he said and appears to feel but do it CIVILLY and CALMLY.

Leave the insults and such at the door, I may not like what was said but we as a community are suppose to be better than that. Let's remember that, stay civil and focus on teaching and spreading knowledge.

Mitch
02-08-2010, 7:43 AM
In California, we are NOT going to win through "hearts and minds" - the demographics of the state make that impossible. Press therefore does not help us.

I disagree very strongly with that statement. Long term, it's the only way we can win.

bodger
02-08-2010, 8:01 AM
I would be interested to hear what other law enforcement officers who are CalGuns members (or any LEOs in general) have to say about this.

The "laughing" at us because we can only dream of getting a CCW is demonstrative of why CCWs are mostly out of reach in this state. The issuance of same is controlled by local law enforcement.

In Rod's department, I suppose they also laugh at the CCW applications that they receive.

dirtnap
02-08-2010, 8:10 AM
......this guy has been strangling alley cats while wearing his dead great-grandmothers high-heels and lipstick. And talking in the mirror going, "muaaaah...uh..ooomuahh...would you **** me?? muaahha I would **** me ....ihhhh..muahhh: :eek:


You're right, we can't have people going "muaaaah...uh..ooomuahh" all creepy like that! Take that mofo down. ;):D

VW*Mike
02-08-2010, 8:15 AM
Wow! I thought this thread and the others were black holed? Then the alleged guilty party posts up? Wowzers!

What REALLY makes me nervous and upsets me, is that he said this in private thinking he was safe to say how he feels. THAT HE WOULDN'T say it if he knew more were listening/reading and it was in confidence. I was always taught you never say anything in private you wouldn't say in public. Is this the surface of a whole rouge band of cops that is going to be ousted since one did something stupid? If this is how they feel and act about us law abiding citizens, what have they gotten away with on the job that we do not know about to people that are less vocal or can stand up? I would not want to be in his or his buddies shoes right now.

As far as UOC, I fall in line with the attorneys and people in the know on this. Yes, I applaud your activism, and balls. However, when people closer to the situation, leading the fight FOR us, ask us to be patient and stand down for the greater good, IMO we should listen. As stated earlier, if you REALLY wanted to make a political statement, why not just wear an empty holster. Whether or not a gun is in it it sends the same message. That will get you involved IMO in a lot more conversations and good questions which you could use to enlighten people.

RomanDad
02-08-2010, 8:17 AM
In the language of cop... His facebook comment is "Felony Stupid".

audiophil2
02-08-2010, 8:24 AM
A few years ago a Rabbi made the statement while in the security line at SFO that he had a bomb on his person. Everyone knew he was frustrated by the procedures when he said it but TSA, SFPD, and the FBI did not takes his comments lightly. He was immediately searched and arrested in front of everyone. After that incident a dumb*** passenger was getting "wanded" when alarms were going off at his belt buckle. When the TSA agent asked him what was causing the alarm he said, "I have a gun." In reality it was the belt buckle but that caused the checkpoint to close. He got arrested for making terrorist threats.
Why should this cop be no different? He made public terrorist threats against US citizens. He should be arrested and tried as a terrorist or fired at the least.
His apologies mean zero to me. I can say the most racial, demeaning, and hateful things but it's perfectly ok as long as I apologize? C'mon. His original statements are usually the true feelings a person makes. The apology comes only after they get caught or are in trouble. The fisrt thing that comes out of a cheater is usually, "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to do it."

My375hp302
02-08-2010, 8:33 AM
It wasnt my page however it was my comment that stirred the hornets nest! After reading all the post i figured it would be best to address the masses versus hide from them! I know i will get pitch forked by all the posters. Im not afraid to admit fault! I will admit wrong choice of words especially when i thought i had a private audience. But i wont us that as an out! I should have known better to keep certain things to myslef of to those in my own inner circle!

Sometimes sacastic or off color humor should be best kept in the confines of those you can confide in. I forgot the golden rule of whos watching and listenting to you! I know i ruffled alot of feathers by making that comment! But as a person i did not mean no harm to anyone. Those that know me know my form of humor after all i'm a former Marine!

So to those that took this the wrong way i apologize! I didnt mean for it to go the way it did! I know i shouldnt have said what i said but i said no point in denying it! On one note to my buddies friend you know who posted my comment ill be more than glad to have a drink or two!

All I hear is that you are sorry we found out about it. We are not upset that you SAID it so it is irrelavent WHO you said it to. We are upset that you THINK this way, regardless of who you are talking to or who you think is listening. It's your mindset that is disturbing. As a former LEO I can understand the constant stresses of the job, but to have such violent and calous feelings towards law abiding citizens baffels me. If you truly have that little regard for a human life you need to hang up the hat and find a new job. I know it sounds corny but it is your job to PROTECT and SERVE.

Decoligny
02-08-2010, 8:37 AM
In all fairness, while chatting with my LEO roomate about wanting to start UOC he was adverse to it because so far the majority of who he and his department have encountered are disrespectful jerks not giving responsible gun owners any credibility either...

A minor rewrite to put things into context: "In all fairness, while chatting with my LEO roomate about wanting to start hiring blacks UOC he was adverse to it because so far the majority of who he and his department have encountered are disrespectful darkies jerks not giving good ni***** gun owners any credibility either..."

Wow, an LEO roommate that doesn't support a civil right movement because those who are fighting for that civil right aren't courteous and submissive to those who want to strip them of their civil rights.

I would get a new roommate.

dirtykoala
02-08-2010, 8:40 AM
East Palo Alto is in San Mateo county, here is what the San Matero county sherrifs office says about open carry:

Should the gun carrying person fail to comply with a law enforcement instruction or move in a way that could be construed as threatening, the
police are forced to respond in kind for their own protection. It’s well and good in hindsight to say the gun carrier was simply “exercising their rights” but the result could be deadly.

http://www.co.sanmateo.ca.us/Attachments/sheriffs/pdfs/Press%20Releases/20100114_opencarry.pdf

it seems to be the norm in that area to promote shooting lawfull citizens if they move or "fail to comply" with instructions.... COP: "put your hands on your head", UOCer: "you have no reasonable suspicion that i am commiting a crime, detainment is not warranted" cops ar15 "POP POP POP POP POP POP" cop: "ha! the constitutional rights advocate is dead! thatll show him to not listen to me!.... j/k"

.45shoot, your comments, whether put on a billboard on the side of IKEA, or on facebook, or kept inside your head, are disturbing and unprofessional. you took an oath to uphold the constitution and you joke about shooting people that are doing that, then getting vacation out of it. thinking that you are speaking in private is no excuse for what you said. i hope you are soon unemployed, its not fair to taxpayers to have to feed you and your family.

bigmike82
02-08-2010, 8:43 AM
As bad as the comments were, at least he had the balls to man up, come out, and apologize for it.

FastFinger
02-08-2010, 8:50 AM
As bad as the comments were, at least he had the balls to man up, come out, and apologize for it.

Not seeing it that way.

A., His affiliation with CGN was bound to be revealed, the avatar - his buying/selling etc. Not much balls required to see the inevitable and try to lessen the blow.

B., Even the "apology" is weak, as pointed out it's more of a kid's "Sorry I was caught" type Clintonesque apology. All mitigation, no remorse.

audiophil2
02-08-2010, 8:52 AM
As bad as the comments were, at least he had the balls to man up, come out, and apologize for it.

Apologies are made when a person is sincerely sorry for what they said/did or to cover their 6. Which reason do you think this pro-citizen killer falls under?
Read his FB comments clearly then answer.

battleship
02-08-2010, 8:55 AM
No balls on this guy, just red faced with his pants down.

What a mockery he has made of all of us on calguns and the fundementals of what calguns is about. Its not just about the open carry isssue here it goes way beyond that.

WokMaster1
02-08-2010, 8:56 AM
I see this is as a picture perfect window of opportunity to slip in to educate the San Mateo PD, SO & all law enforcement agencies about the right to UOC in CA.

PatriotnMore
02-08-2010, 9:03 AM
Mind set, this is the problem I have with many who wear the badge and are supposed protectors of the law and constitution. It does not matter he was kidding, or talking to a select group "who get his humor" . Your mind set says all that needs to be known about the kind of person you really are, not the cop you pretend to be.

To those who wear the badge with honor, thank you. For those pretending, please look for other work and get out of the business.

liketoshoot
02-08-2010, 9:18 AM
New and interesting addition to this story: http://feralis.blogspot.com/2010/02/rod-tuason-praetorian.html

Something Feral

THERE WILL BE A LEG WITH FEET AND CLAWS ATTACHED ON EACH SIDE OF THE HAT THAT WILL COME DOWN OVER YOUR EARS.

Sunday, February 7, 2010
Rod Tuason, Praetorian
Meet Detective Rod Tuason. Rod works for the East Palo Alto Police Department.

Unfortunately for Detective Tuason, Facebook knows no loyalty:
"Sounds like you had someone practicing their 2nd amendment rights last night! Should've pulled the AR out and prone them all out! And if one of them made a furtive movement...2 weeks off!!!"

EDIT: Tuason's Facebook page has since been removed, but not forgotten.

Frankly, it's difficult to think of how this comment could be construed as anything but callous thuggery; no doubt this is what Scalia had in mind when he mentioned the "new professionalism" in Hudson v. Michigan. The most disturbing aspect of this, however, is the the cavalier attitude regarding the willful murder of someone exercising their rights under the law, the paid vacation after the fact, followed by a cursory review which will likely find "no evidence of wrong-doing."

Hopefully, once the city realizes the liability posed by allowing him to remain on the force, Defective Tuason will be bounced out on his rear faster than a pack of dogs on a one-legged cat. The truth of the situation is that officers of the law are supposedly held to a higher level of responsibility and restraint in word and action, and this comment was demonstrative of neither, but in all ways more befitting a soldier of a totalitarian regime in a Third-World nation.

Tuason then opens a fresh can of worms:
"Haha thats when you go attend one of their meetings and laugh at them cuz they can only dream to have a ccw.."
This highlights the need for a model akin to Vermont: unlicensed concealed-carry. If the police are not obligated to respond, serve, or protect, then immediately forbid the bearing of arms anywhere beyond one's home, who can then provide means for their own self-defense? Of course, this is the core fallacy of the gun-control movement: criminals are generally not inclined to respect the law, and will go about their business armed, regardless of restrictions.

Indeed, if creatures such as Tuason are gate-keepers of to our means of defending ourselves, we are truly in dire straits. Ideally, the situation would not have to be remedied via incorporation (McDonald v. Chicago), but the pretense of adhering to some form of limited constitutional republic has all but been swept away.
Posted by Something Feral at 9:25 PM
Tags: Der Staat, Live Free Or Die Trying, Sturmtruppen, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

Southwest Chuck
02-08-2010, 9:19 AM
I didn't say he was right and yes they should be held to a higher standard. I strongly feel he is out of line and needs to be educated on how to deal with these situations.

Do these bad LEO's exist? Yes, is it right hell no, they need to be taken to task for it. I am not defending nor condoning them joking about this,

what I am saying is this cat most likely is the officer that has a lot of complaints for roughing people up, getting happy with the taser and is the bad cop we have all heard about.

I said what I did because the guys I know that have been in combat, have been in officer involved shootings or both do not joke about it to other people that were not there or have not been in the same position period!

This is what I'm hearing from your comments:

1. The Officer may be kind of a lower level police thug, but if he had actually been in an Officer involved shooting in the past, he wouldn't have made the comments he did. Therefore, he really not much of a threat, just a braggart.

Question: What if he has a past of Officer Involved Shooting(s) ? What does that tell you then? and, Do you really believe that just "education" is what is needed here and will be sufficient enough to "adjust" his attitude? Would YOU bet your life on it?

sholling
02-08-2010, 9:23 AM
He may as well turn in his badge now because 1) he very obviously does not have the temperament or maturity to be in law enforcement. And 2) if he is ever in a shooting, good or bad, that mindless posting will forever make for Mark Fuhrman moments on the witness stand. He will always be presumed to be fishing for a chance to kill (or otherwise violate rights) and for a 2 week vacation - because he's publicly admitted to it. His agency is going to be sued successfully every time he so much as sneezes in the direction of a citizen.

dirtykoala
02-08-2010, 9:29 AM
He may as well turn in his badge now because 1) he very obviously does not have the temperament or maturity to be in law enforcement. And 2) if he is ever in a shooting, good or bad, that mindless posting will forever make for Mark Fuhrman moments on the witness stand. He will always be presumed to be fishing for a chance to kill (or otherwise violate rights) and for a 2 week vacation - because he's publicly admitted to it. His agency is going to be sued successfully every time he so much as sneezes in the direction of a citizen.


another positive to turning in his badge is that he will get a perminant vacation, and he doesnt need to kill anyone for it.

CavTrooper
02-08-2010, 9:38 AM
Wow. Im incredibly shocked to find out this POS LEO is actually a calguns member! Ive been led to belive that the LEOs that frequent this site are "the good ones", the ones that on our side (the side of constitutional rights), the ones we can count on to educuate thier fellow LEOs about the subtlties of firearms laws in CA. What .45shooter has done is given us insight into the mind of the "inner circle" and IMO insight into the mind of the (supposedly) 2A supporting LEOs.

Rod, you did more than damage your own credibility, you have just successfully widened the divide between us vs them by causing all of us to be suspicious of the LEOs that are here on this forum, supposedly "on our side"

Thanks.

dirtykoala
02-08-2010, 9:41 AM
maybe he has been asvised to stop commenting?

rkt88edmo
02-08-2010, 9:41 AM
Well, you can see what happens when one did, if they are at all sympathetic to the wrongdoer they get the torch & pitchfork treatment.

I would be interested to hear what other law enforcement officers who are CalGuns members (or any LEOs in general) have to say about this.

The "laughing" at us because we can only dream of getting a CCW is demonstrative of why CCWs are mostly out of reach in this state. The issuance of same is controlled by local law enforcement.

In Rod's department, I suppose they also laugh at the CCW applications that they receive.

Roadrunner
02-08-2010, 9:44 AM
Well, this is better than a morning cup of coffee to get me to wake up. Just a note, the dog on 45 shooters avatar and the dog on Tuasons Facebook page are not the same, hell they're not even the same breed. Setting that aside for a moment, several revelations and comparisons have been posted and I find them very interesting.

Just wanting to clarify, Tuason = .45 shooter, is that right? And Tuason (aka .45 shooter) just came out of the shadows to claim responsibility for the outrageous comments that have sparked a firestorm of controversy, did I get that right? Since I've never been there, as I understand it, East Palo Alto is located in San Mateo County, and LIEUTENANT Ray Lunny of the San Mateo County Sheriff's Department has in essence made the same comments about shooting UOCers for an undefined "furtive" move, correct? If I have this all correct, then there is a bigger problem in San Mateo than just a couple of loud mouth cops who use their authority to make violent threats because UOCers do something they don't like. How many other police departments in San Mateo county are embracing this same sentiment? How many of those cops would be willing to go along with the murder of law abiding citizens to save their jobs? We know they don't give a rip about our rights, it probably goes the same for our personal defense as well.

Now to the point of my post. Roderick Tuason aka .45shooter, your comments are contemptible, and your apology is worthless. You, like the criminals you have ferreted out are simply coming out of hiding because we went after you. You are not sorry for saying the things you said, you are merely sorry because you were caught saying them. You, and cops like you have an elitist attitude that seems to think that carrying of arms in public is your personal domain to be given to or taken from whom ever you choose. That is also contemptible and shouldn't be aloud to exist in the United States, let alone California. Untold numbers of otherwise law abiding citizens have been arrested by elitists like you for making the life or death choice to carry a firearm because their life depended on it, yet a cop like you could care less because after all, it was against the law. I understand you have a family, well so do those of us who want to carry a firearm for our personal safety and the safety of our families, yet you arrogantly laughed at us because we could only wish to have a CCW, something you obviously take for granted.

I'm not sure why you created an account on Calguns or why you would associate yourself with the masses. Perhaps you were laughing at us as you were posting, or perhaps you were simply gleaning what you could from us to take back to your handlers. In any case, you brought down the thunder, you will have to live with it.

oaklander
02-08-2010, 9:46 AM
I agree, it is in our best interest NOT to stoop to .45's level.



45Shooter has outed himself and stepped in to the discussion.
That was his choice and likely not an easy one to make.

His words carry consequences as do all of ours and that is something he's going to have to live and deal with.

That said while I understand the frustration on many people's part this situation is not special nor an exception to the rules.
Talk with him, share your views and feelings on what he said and appears to feel but do it CIVILLY and CALMLY.

Leave the insults and such at the door, I may not like what was said but we as a community are suppose to be better than that. Let's remember that, stay civil and focus on teaching and spreading knowledge.

Soybomb
02-08-2010, 9:51 AM
Sounds like he's really sorry.....that he got caught.

I love the lip service to the 2nd amendment despite many comments that clearly show his true feelings.

aileron
02-08-2010, 9:52 AM
I was going to delete my blog post - but that would actually look fairly suspicious, especially now that it has been picked up by other blogs (http://adnanshahab.com/).




Nice... this is the most telling statement about LEO managements attitude.


Law enforcement has a duty to enforce the laws. When law enforcement feels that they can start deciding which rights that citizens are and are not allowed to maintain, that is a dangerous situation

ZombieTactics
02-08-2010, 9:52 AM
"But as a person i did not mean no harm to anyone" (I added the boldface for emphasis)

This pretty much explains it to me. How did someone with a complete inability to express himself in English make it on the force in the first place? Aren't there any standards or requirements to become a police officer?

CSACANNONEER
02-08-2010, 9:53 AM
I will commend .45shooter for outing himself here. That took a lot. Unfortunately, I can't think of anything he could do to reverse his serious lapse in judgement. Weather he was joking, thought he was speaking in private or truly believes his statement, the fact that he made such a statement is enough to question his judgement. Anyone who has this poor of judgement skills should not be a LEO or in any type of career which could lead to taking the life of an innocent person to further their own personal agenda and thinking that getting a paid vacation for doing so would be a bonus.

eric2063
02-08-2010, 10:00 AM
Why I am I getting moderately flamed for my post? :(
I guess you can get torched and pitch forked for saying he was wrong wrong wrong (as a non LEO) and not lining up to put the noose on. I am not sure what question I am being asked, by interpreting my words and spinning them to place me in an embarrassing light are you baiting me into defending Tuason for his comments and obvious disregard for human life? Not gonna happen!

I will turn it around and ask you; do you feel are there differing levels to a police thug? What level of education does he need? That is not my place to determine, I would think given the degree of offense his education is going to be walking down the road kicking a can. As to if he has had or been involved in officer involved shootings I would think the attorney representing the victim of the incident (or incidents) would be gathering the comments the officer made in the FB posting as well as this forum to present to the judge and jury in the case.

As for betting my life? Uh I am not sure how to even respond to that question. I guess I can say I did that once, it didnít turn out so well and I learn learned a valuable lesson from it and came away with only scars to remind me not to do it again.

bwiese
02-08-2010, 10:29 AM
Enough 'outsiders' are reading CGN that best-foot-forward approach to post quality can only help our image.

7222 Hawker
02-08-2010, 10:29 AM
East Palo Alto PD has had problems for a long time. This guy isn't the only problem child there. Anyone who has been around the area for a while can remember a long history of problems with the officers there. Wildhawker mentioned the "wolf pack" in one of his previous postings. Anyone remember that? How about the two officers there who got fired for assaulting a guy off duty to the point he was hospitalized. Remeber that one? Those two got their jobs back! Bottom line is they are the lowest paid, most poorly trained department I have ever seen. Add to that an attitude that they are the cream of the crop because the work in big, bad, East Palo Alto and you have a recipe for disaster. They consistantly give officers a bad name.

xxdabroxx
02-08-2010, 10:30 AM
I still am not sure 45 shooter is the shoot him guy. Like others have brought up, the avatar is different and he said something to the effect of "i stirred the pot.". I think he may be a friend of Rod, but is not Rod.

Roadrunner
02-08-2010, 10:37 AM
I still am not sure 45 shooter is the shoot him guy. Like others have brought up, the avatar is different and he said something to the effect of "i stirred the pot.". I think he may be a friend of Rod, but is not Rod.

Whoever he is, I stand by my post. If it's not Tuason, he can deliver my comments to him.

xxdabroxx
02-08-2010, 10:39 AM
Whoever he is, I stand by my post. If it's not Tuason, he can deliver my comments to him.

Good point. LOL Either way, Tuason has made few friends.