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View Full Version : 14.5 inch barrel with permanent FH legal


Kali_M14
01-12-2006, 6:24 PM
I wanted to know if getting a 14.5" barrel with a perm attached flashhider out to 16" is legal to have in kali?

icormba
01-12-2006, 6:29 PM
I wanted to know if getting a 14.5" lower with a perm attached flashhider out to 16" is legal to have in kali?

14.5" lower w/ flash hidder to = 16"? NO ;)
but a 14.5" UPPER with perm flash hidder to = 16"... YES

bu-bye
01-12-2006, 6:34 PM
14.5" lower w/ flash hidder to = 16"? NO ;)
but a 14.5" UPPER with perm flash hidder to = 16"... YES

Alomst but still no.

A flash hidder can not be mounted but a brake can.

pinned brake + barrel =16" OK

TonyM
01-12-2006, 6:58 PM
Alomst but still no.

A flash hidder can not be mounted but a brake can.

pinned brake + barrel =16" OK

Actually..

A fixed magazine AR type rifle can have a flash hider. Not a problem. As said above, if it's 16" overall with any muzzle device, and the muzzle device is pinned/silver soldered on to make it non removable you are okay.


12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.

Rascal
01-12-2006, 7:02 PM
Alomst but still no.

A flash hidder can not be mounted but a brake can.

pinned brake + barrel =16" OK


Well not quite.
If he has a pinned 10 round mag + pinned FH+ 14.5" barrel, equaling 16" = OK

If he has a detatchable mag + FH = AW! Bad JuJu!
A flash hider CAN be mounted, as long as it has a non-detatchable magazine.
Evil features only count with detatchable magazines.

BigAL
01-12-2006, 7:03 PM
Make sure you buy a phantom or vortex as the standard A2 perm mounted will not add enough length.

TonyM
01-12-2006, 7:04 PM
Oh, also, in California the minimum overall length needs to be at least 30".

bu-bye
01-12-2006, 7:20 PM
You got me. Brain fart. I was think on a whole other level here.

Sorry:(

TonyM
01-12-2006, 7:21 PM
It happens... :)

berg
01-12-2006, 8:14 PM
Why would you want to give up the velocity just to have a super long muzzle device? You've still got a 16" barrel either way, but with the regular 16" barrel you get rifling all the way down.

Read the ammo faq about how ammo doesn't perform as well at lower speeds.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=189353

Gunner1
01-12-2006, 8:21 PM
My reason for having one is that they are turning up at very good prices. I bought a new in box Bushmaster 14.5" chrome lined barrel assembly with permanent ak style brake for $90.00 shipped including handguards. For a budget build thats a good price in my book.


gunner

TonyM
01-12-2006, 8:29 PM
We just had the conversation about velocity in another thread, to sum it up, 14.5 vs 16 == almost no difference.

Velocity Chart (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=212&d=1137102467)

Kali_M14
01-12-2006, 9:35 PM
thanks for the comments

pieeater
01-12-2006, 9:50 PM
These are both reg AWs with 14.5s and perm attach vortex.

http://www.fototime.com/7DA516BC6A5EFC0/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/811A6F0E60BBA0D/standard.jpg

ten-tenths
01-12-2006, 10:43 PM
how is the noise difference between the 14.5 vs 16?

Pablo
01-13-2006, 12:15 AM
how is the noise difference between the 14.5 vs 16?

If you are worry about the noise level of a 14.5 barrel get a krinkov FH they do an exellent job and they look really cool!!!

BigAL
01-13-2006, 6:19 AM
how is the noise difference between the 14.5 vs 16?

Not much of a difference. It has a lot more to do with the muzzle device you put on.

Mike Searson
01-13-2006, 6:35 AM
The Krinkov style brake from Noveske is the bomb!

Got one on my 12" AR.

akjunkie
01-13-2006, 7:40 AM
hope this helps.. i sent my Pre Y2K registered bushmaster upper back to bush to have a 14.5 barrel installed with a Permanently welded FH.

i will copy and paste my question and answer from bushmaster.

QUESTION:

"i just got my upper back from you today. you installed a 14.5 PRE-BAN M4 barrel with a Phantom 2 Flash hider on my upper. NO where on the Receipt does it say the Flash hider is PERMANENTLY INSTALLED. is it Permanently installed????? all i see is a peel/crush washer. if it is, Can you send me Another receipt with the Same INVOICE number listed above stating that it is Permanently Installed. according to this Link> http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/abbl-14.5a.asp "an Izzy or Phantom FH must be Permenantly attached to make this Barrel LEGAL." Please keep me posted. worst case scenario i would have to send my Upper back to you to have it Permanently WELDED so i dont become a FELON. regards"

ANSWER FROM BUSHMASTER

"If the flash suppressor was not permanently installed the invoice would state that it must be used on title II or NFA firearm. The part number A BBL-14M4AM2 indicates that it is permanently attached.

If it were not permanently attached there would be three part numbers. The 14.5" M4 barrel would be A BBL-14.5M4, the Phantom would be part number YHM-28-5C1 and a part number for the peel or crush washer. "


so in other words, YES its legal (as long is its a registered AW). lost of velocity between 14.5 and 16, negligible. carbine still only good for 200meters. i use 55gr Lake city or Win Q3131a... remember, u need a Minimum of 2700 fps for maximum wounding effect. read the ammo-oracle over at ARFCOM, it is a wealth of information.

ten-tenths
01-13-2006, 10:22 AM
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/xs650/ar/DSCN1121.jpg
is this the Krinkov style brake from Noveske?

[pic is from mstn.biz] i wish it was mine!

Centurion_D
01-14-2006, 10:42 PM
hope this helps.. i sent my Pre Y2K registered bushmaster upper back to bush to have a 14.5 barrel installed with a Permanently welded FH.

i will copy and paste my question and answer from bushmaster.

QUESTION:

"i just got my upper back from you today. you installed a 14.5 PRE-BAN M4 barrel with a Phantom 2 Flash hider on my upper. NO where on the Receipt does it say the Flash hider is PERMANENTLY INSTALLED. is it Permanently installed????? all i see is a peel/crush washer. if it is, Can you send me Another receipt with the Same INVOICE number listed above stating that it is Permanently Installed. according to this Link> http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/abbl-14.5a.asp "an Izzy or Phantom FH must be Permenantly attached to make this Barrel LEGAL." Please keep me posted. worst case scenario i would have to send my Upper back to you to have it Permanently WELDED so i dont become a FELON. regards"

ANSWER FROM BUSHMASTER

"If the flash suppressor was not permanently installed the invoice would state that it must be used on title II or NFA firearm. The part number A BBL-14M4AM2 indicates that it is permanently attached.

If it were not permanently attached there would be three part numbers. The 14.5" M4 barrel would be A BBL-14.5M4, the Phantom would be part number YHM-28-5C1 and a part number for the peel or crush washer. "


so in other words, YES its legal (as long is its a registered AW). lost of velocity between 14.5 and 16, negligible. carbine still only good for 200meters. i use 55gr Lake city or Win Q3131a... remember, u need a Minimum of 2700 fps for maximum wounding effect. read the ammo-oracle over at ARFCOM, it is a wealth of information.


Wow...I was always under the impression that you had to have a barrel length of 16 inches..minimum. Anything shorter and it falls under NFA defined Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) regardless if the flashhider is permanently attached to the barrel. Very interesting. I wonder if there are any state or local regulations pertaining to minimum barrel length.

akjunkie
01-15-2006, 6:52 PM
Wow...I was always under the impression that you had to have a barrel length of 16 inches..minimum. Anything shorter and it falls under NFA defined Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) regardless if the flashhider is permanently attached to the barrel. Very interesting. I wonder if there are any state or local regulations pertaining to minimum barrel length.

this is also legal on your registered AW.

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/pre-ban/bura2b11555.asp

shopkeep
01-15-2006, 6:56 PM
I believe you can still buy 14.5 inch uppers with 1.5 inch FH permenantly installed on them from Bushmaster and many others. Stag even has a limited edition upper that's 14.5 inches with a 1.5 inch FH. I've actually heard of 5 inch FH being permenantly installed on 11 inch barrels but that's a bit extreme.

TonyM
01-15-2006, 7:01 PM
I believe you can still buy 14.5 inch uppers with 1.5 inch FH permenantly installed on them from Bushmaster and many others. Stag even has a limited edition upper that's 14.5 inches with a 1.5 inch FH. I've actually heard of 5 inch FH being permenantly installed on 11 inch barrels but that's a bit extreme.

Bushmaster 11.5" upper with Perminent 5.5" FH:

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/pre-ban/bura2b11.55.5.jpg

I'd rather have a 14.5 with a Phantom, or a 16".

Leon_DeGamme
01-15-2006, 8:29 PM
Not that it really matters but I dont think the bayonet fits over that flashhider so the lug is useless in that respect.

shopkeep
01-16-2006, 3:14 AM
Personally I've always kinda questioned the 1.5 inchers on the 14.5 inch rifle. But I've come to accept them since. I don't think I'll ever accept the 5.5 inch FHs on the 11.5 rifles. That's just silly.

winwithagrin
01-16-2006, 7:09 PM
Oh, also, in California the minimum overall length needs to be at least 30".

How long will an AR be if it has a collapsible stock and a 14.5'' barrel with, say, a phantom or vortex FH? I'm guessing it's under 30''.

Mike Searson
01-16-2006, 7:10 PM
Actually the 10.5" with the 5.5" brake is based on an actual military weapon...the XM17.

The suppressor supposedly disguised the noise of the round so the Vietnamese would not think SOG types were in their AO (at least that's one version I've heard)

I built a clone of one recently...Upper is a slickside A1 upper from an M16 used in Vietnam. Stock is an original military aluminium stock, pistol grip is a Vietnam issued M16A1 pistol grip which I had to repaint. The barrel however, is a 16" Olympic Arms heavy bbl with a chrome lined bore. Flash Suppressor is a Bushy 5.5" slipover....so it gives the illusion of the short barrel with the long hider while keeping the benefits of the 16" bbl.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b237/mikesearson/DSC01928.jpg

TonyM
01-16-2006, 7:33 PM
How long will an AR be if it has a collapsible stock and a 14.5'' barrel with, say, a phantom or vortex FH? I'm guessing it's under 30''.

30 7/8 inches as measured on mine just now.

grammaton76
01-16-2006, 8:02 PM
How long will an AR be if it has a collapsible stock and a 14.5'' barrel with, say, a phantom or vortex FH? I'm guessing it's under 30''.

31.5" as I measured last night (I was freaking out and thought maybe I needed to get a fixed stock to stay legal)

avidone
01-16-2006, 9:43 PM
Actually the 10.5" with the 5.5" brake is based on an actual military weapon...the XM17.

The suppressor supposedly disguised the noise of the round so the Vietnamese would not think SOG types were in their AO (at least that's one version I've heard)

I built a clone of one recently...Upper is a slickside A1 upper from an M16 used in Vietnam. Stock is an original military aluminium stock, pistol grip is a Vietnam issued M16A1 pistol grip which I had to repaint. The barrel however, is a 16" Olympic Arms heavy bbl with a chrome lined bore. Flash Suppressor is a Bushy 5.5" slipover....so it gives the illusion of the short barrel with the long hider while keeping the benefits of the 16" bbl.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b237/mikesearson/DSC01928.jpg

I like the shorty look. I have a 5.5 slipover on my 16" Colt Sporter lightweight upper. It "rocks"! Looks just like the one in the pic.

pieeater
01-17-2006, 6:01 PM
31.5" as I measured last night (I was freaking out and thought maybe I needed to get a fixed stock to stay legal)

31 1/4 on mine.