PDA

View Full Version : (UPDATE: YOU DID IT! WE GOT IT DONE!) Pro-Self Defense Oregon Sheriff Needs Help!


Pages : [1] 2 3 4

Gray Peterson
02-06-2010, 9:50 PM
UPDATED COMBINED DONATION FUND COUNT: $11,614

WE GOT IT! We got $11,614 total (5420 Gunpal/CalGuns, 4831 OFEF, 1365 mailed donations), and the machine costs 11,292.94. We got it done, folks, great thanks to all who donated!

Please see this FAQ posting about tour dates in California, and about when the machine will be available:

Let me restate what's already been stated before:

Sheriff Palmer's machine is being bought by the Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation. CrossMatch, the company which sells the LiveScan machine, has told OFEF that it takes 30 to 45 days to create, configure, and then send out someone from their home office to train the officers of the department how to use the machine. Since Grant County has never had a LiveScan machine before, this will be an education for them.

Sheriff Palmer, besides taking non-resident apps in Canyon City, OR, has also been traveling to Vancouver, WA/Portland, OR and Puyallup (WA) and taking applications there and using the ink fingerprint method. Why is he doing this before the LiveScan machine? There are a few reasons.

1) Sheriff Palmer traveling to the Portland Metro area and Tacoma/Seattle metro area and taking a lot of applications is getting the attention of the County Commissioners, who criticized him for the possibility of not getting enough of a return on carry licenses. The large hauls he's brought into the county treasury is starting to change their tune.

2) Portland and Tacoma/Seattle areas has family members there that can help him with the application processing. I was proud to help the Sheriff in taking application questions at the Washington Arms Collector's Show in Puyallup. He will not have such help from his family in California due to the distances, but Palmer himself will be at the Calfornia shows. Think of his shows up there as a "Beta test" of how it works. He may need to teach any of his helpers in California how to take the applications and so on, because it is anticipated that Palmer's table will be taking MANY times more applications at a 2 day gun show at ANY of the California shows than the ones in Puyallup (WA). A LiveScan machine would quicken the pace and allow him to take applications quicker, and make easier to train others on taking prints than ink fingerprinting, given the likely massive California gun show volume.

3) We will be announcing in this thread, along with possibly creating a new one, his dates in California. Given that it takes 30-45 days to get the machine in working order and being able to use it, I would not plan on anything before June 15th. Sorry folks, trying to learn fingerprinting systems at a gun show is not a good idea, especially when it comes to high volume of processing at a gun show rather than just sitting in the sheriff's office used a few times a day.

UPDATE: Sheriff Palmer announced in this thread that he will accept a training certificate from the Maryland Police Training Commission, which is a FREE online course as it goes over aspects of handgun safety.

Maryland Online Training Course (http://www.mdgunsafety.com/)

Also, you can download the FILLABLE PDF Grant County Sheriff CHL Application (http://www.benjamincannon.net/oregonchl_pub_0001.pdf) as well.

Alert from Oregon Firearms Federation (http://www.oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/02.06.10alert.html)

Finally we have a bit of news we're happy and eager to report.

You know that we make every effort to keep our requests for donations to a responsible level. Yes, we need funds to operate, but the weekly pitches that you get from other groups are not our style. But, we are asking that you consider making a donation of whatever amount you can afford to help an Oregon Sheriff who is a true friend to gun owners.

Since the legislature has been incapable of expanding our CHL program to visitors from other states (you may recall our efforts to do that last year were shot down by Representative Judy Stiegler,) Sheriff Glenn Palmer of Grant County has decided he wants to make it as easy as possible for non-residents to apply for Oregon CHL's. He hopes to actually travel to gun shows in adjoining states and take applications there.

Palmer has been a strong advocate of gun rights, but he has a small budget and he needs some help. The sheriff would like to purchase a digital fingerprint device so he can take applicants' prints with less chance of them being rejected as unreadable.

OFF is sending him $1000.00 towards the purchase. Anything you can do to help would be appreciated. You can send him a donation directly.

In an e-mail to us yesterday the sheriff said "If they want to send it to me at 205 South Humboldt Street Canyon City, Or. 97820 with a note for fingerprint machine I will put it into our monthly turn over with a line to a specific account that is and will be used for the upgrade on the equipment....what ever you can come up with would be wonderful too!!!!"

Or if you prefer to donate by credit card, you can make a donation to the Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation and we will forward it to him. Be sure to note that your donation is for Sheriff Palmer. You can do that safely on line here (https://payments.auctionpay.com/ver3/?id=w020692). Use the drop down menu to indicate your donation is for the Foundation and any field to note it's for the Sheriff. Thanks for helping.

For myself, I've spoken to Sheriff Palmer multiple times over the last two months over multiple different issues. He is a true believer in the 2nd amendment, the right to carry, and the right to armed self defense. Where other counties in Oregon flat out refuse to issue licenses, require business reasons, and so on, Sheriff Palmer has said flat out that "Self Defense" is an "other legitimate demonstrated need". When I say "He is Oregon's most pro-gun and pro-self defense sheriff", I am not saying so lightly.

Grant County is a county of about 8500 people. Given that law enforcement and county budgets in general is getting squeezed, Sheriff Palmer cannot afford the proper LiveScan equipment, as his department been having issues with ink fingerprinting and doesn't want to give OSP a reason to reject the applications based on ink smudges and so on, as their reject rate is going higher as an encouragement to upgrade. Remote LiveScan equipment is pretty expensive, but the best way to get the licenses processed quickly and without requiring the return trip.

Any help you folks can send Sheriff Palmer on getting the remote LiveScan equipment, so he can get down to the gun shows in the various parts of California and process your non-resident applications, would be greatly appreciated.

For Non-Tax Deductable Donations via CalGuns Inc/GunPal:

https://www.gunpal.net/images/xpressbuttons/buy-now-buttons-small-donate.png (https://www.gunpal.net/gp?req=xpress&hbid=0000000007645701)

For Tax Deductible Donations Via Oregon Firearms Education Foundation (Make sure under type of donation use "Oregon Firearms Education Foundation" and make sure you put in "Grant County Fingerprinting" in the tribute):

http://ofef.org/wp-includes/images/ofeflogo.jpg (https://payments.auctionpay.com/ver3/?id=w020692)

If you want to snail mail a check or money order it directly to Sheriff Glenn Palmer, you can send it to:

Glenn Palmer
Grant County Sheriff's Office
205 S. Humboldt
Canyon City, OR 97820

Make sure it is paid to the order of the Grant County Sheriff's Office, and make sure to include in the memo "Fingerprinting Machine" so that it can be used for that purpose.

hoffmang
02-06-2010, 9:53 PM
If Sheriff Palmer can get a portable live scan device, I'm pretty confident that CGF can assist Sheriff Palmer with his travel expenses to outfit California gunowners with OR licenses to carry...

-Gene

Gray Peterson
02-06-2010, 9:58 PM
If Sheriff Palmer can get a portable live scan device, I'm pretty confident that CGF can assist Sheriff Palmer with his travel expenses to outfit California gunowners with OR licenses to carry...

-Gene

I'm sure he'd greatly appreciate that. The fact that any chief law enforcement officer is willing to go to another state and process a carry license application instead of making them come all the way to his locality is quite unprecedented.

Gray Peterson
02-06-2010, 10:31 PM
Sheriff Palmer can already take Non-Resident CHL apps at this present time from Californians, and will issue to a Californian as long as they are legally eligible for an Oregon CHL, but with the current caveat that they must come to Canyon City, Oregon. The purpose of the fund raising for the remote LiveScan equipment is so that he can come down to California (and other contiguous) states gun shows and allow them to apply to him directly at the shows. To my knowledge, no other sheriff has done anything like this before, in any state.

wildhawker
02-06-2010, 11:25 PM
Calguns will assist the Sheriff in gun show logistics and volunteer support; we're pretty good at that. ;)

nick
02-06-2010, 11:35 PM
How much is this equipment?

7x57
02-06-2010, 11:49 PM
What about having a dinner or some other event as a fundraiser for his gear? If the cost/benefit is right, have him come down and speak at it.

ETA: and if he does come down, we really ought to make sure he's made welcome--to the extent that can be done without appearance of impropriety, which come to think of it might not permit anything.

7x57

Cokebottle
02-07-2010, 12:03 AM
ETA: and if he does come down, we really ought to make sure he's made welcome--to the extent that can be done without appearance of impropriety, which come to think of it might not permit anything.
Meet and greet and a dinner where he buys his own meal.

The warm hands and smiling faces will be a very nice welcome.

djbooya
02-07-2010, 12:12 AM
Alert from Oregon Firearms Federation (http://www.oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/02.06.10alert.html)



For myself, I've spoken to Sheriff Palmer multiple times over the last two months over multiple different issues. He is a true believer in the 2nd amendment, the right to carry, and the right to armed self defense. Where other counties in Oregon flat out refuse to issue licenses, require business reasons, and so on, Sheriff Palmer has said flat out that "Self Defense" is an "other legitimate demonstrated need". When I say "He is Oregon's most pro-gun and pro-self defense sheriff", I am not saying so lightly.

Grant County is a county of about 8500 people. Given that law enforcement and county budgets in general is getting squeezed, Sheriff Palmer cannot afford the proper LiveScan equipment, as his department been having issues with ink fingerprinting and doesn't want to give OSP a reason to reject the applications based on ink smudges and so on, as their reject rate is going higher as an encouragement to upgrade. Remote LiveScan equipment is pretty expensive, but the best way to get the licenses processed quickly and without requiring the return trip.

Any help you folks can send Sheriff Palmer on getting the remote LiveScan equipment, so he can get down to the gun shows in the various parts of California and process your non-resident applications, would be greatly appreciated.

This sounds like a county that might be receptive to the "reserve officer" program or whatever it was going to be called to allow CCW under the peace officer exemption. Reserve applications would be an influx of $ that would also help provide funds for the livescan equipment.

hoffmang
02-07-2010, 12:23 AM
This sounds like a county that might be receptive to the "reserve officer" program or whatever it was going to be called to allow CCW under the peace officer exemption. Reserve applications would be an influx of $ that would also help provide funds for the livescan equipment.

I don't think the reserve office concept is all that good of an idea at this time. It is exceedingly nebulous on certain legalities, and it comes so shortly before carry licensing is about to be liberalized nationwide that I'm not sure the rewards offset the risks.

In fact, I expect we'll have 49 state reciprocity in the next 18 months from Congress (you can carry in any state except carrying in your own requires your state's license.)

-Gene

djbooya
02-07-2010, 12:28 AM
I don't think the reserve office concept is all that good of an idea at this time. It is exceedingly nebulous on certain legalities, and it comes so shortly before carry licensing is about to be liberalized nationwide that I'm not sure the rewards offset the risks.

Sounds reasonable.


In fact, I expect we'll have 49 state reciprocity in the next 18 months from Congress (you can carry in any state except carrying in your own requires your state's license.)

-Gene

I don't know where I've been, but this is the first I've heard about this one. How do you forsee this helping us in CA? Would it be the combination of the reciprocity and the work already being done on getting shall issue statewide?

CaliforniaCarry
02-07-2010, 1:13 AM
I don't know where I've been, but this is the first I've heard about this one. How do you forsee this helping us in CA? Would it be the combination of the reciprocity and the work already being done on getting shall issue statewide?

Think about how many gun more gun owners will be politically "activated" when they realize that any citizen from the 49 other states can get a permit and carry in CA, when CA's own citizens can't. If nothing else, it serves to make CA's permitting system seem ridiculous to the whole nation.

Gray Peterson
02-07-2010, 1:36 AM
I don't know where I've been, but this is the first I've heard about this one. How do you forsee this helping us in CA? Would it be the combination of the reciprocity and the work already being done on getting shall issue statewide?

I wont directly answer on someone else' behalf but I can offer my own observation. Gene is correct that we are within 18 months of getting reciprocity. The Thune Amendment to the defense authorization bill was 58-39 (there was a filibuster against it, and two Republican senators Voinovich and Lugar voted to sustain the filibuster). With Scott Brown (R-MA) stripping away one more anti-gun vote, we're 1 vote shy.

After McDonald, and after a positive Court of Appeals ruling in Palmer, we'll likely see Congress doing everything possible to please gun owners, as they will try to save their own skin. If they don't, we'll get it after the 2010 elections 5 months post McDonald. If that doesn't get the job done, then the Palmer case will end up in front of SCOTUS (unless DC just gives up, but many of us think that they're too stupid and that not appealing will be bad politics locally for a majority anti-gun electorate) in 2011, and it will essentially seal the deal. Reciprocity will pretty much be assured because no state will want to deal with the massive flood in applications to them after they must change their law or have it struck down.

Liberty1
02-07-2010, 9:19 AM
Alert from Oregon Firearms Federation (http://www.oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/02.06.10alert.html)

He is a true believer in the 2nd amendment, the right to carry, and the right to armed self defense.

Any help you folks can send Sheriff Palmer on getting the remote LiveScan equipment, so he can get down to the gun shows in the various parts of California and process your non-resident applications, would be greatly appreciated.

I'll give $100. Is his dept hiring Ca. laterals? :)

Liberty1
02-07-2010, 9:26 AM
I'll give $100. Is his dept hiring Ca. laterals? :)

Hmmm a 7 person dept?

Sheriff: Glenn E. Palmer
Undersheriff: Todd McKinley
Civil Deputy: Sally DeFord
Road Deputies: James Burgett and Charles McKenna
Reserve Deputies: Scott Moore and Joe Coehlo

Sounds like a nice dept. but openings are slim I bet...

Gray Peterson
02-07-2010, 3:02 PM
Folks,

Regardless of whether or not Sheriff Palmer does the reserve deputy thing (which I have serious doubts that he would considering the Oregon statutes involving the practice, the potential liabilities of a potential Colafrencesco (http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/colafrancescopapers.pdf) situation, and so on), he will still need a LiveScan machine in order to do either thing. Do you want to help him do this?

So let's bring the topic back to the topic at hand, in that Sheriff Palmer is 100 percent willing to issue OR CHL's to contiguous state residents solely for self defense, and willing to come to gun shows in California to make this happen. Getting a machine that will not have "smudging" errors that ink fingerprinting does is the fastest way to make this happen.

hill billy
02-07-2010, 4:00 PM
How much is this equipment?

My question as well.

Gray Peterson
02-07-2010, 4:10 PM
My question as well.

Around 12K is what's being looked at. Do you know anything that fits the requirements that's cheaper? PM me so I can send it off to the sheriff.

ZombieTactics
02-07-2010, 4:30 PM
Think about how many gun more gun owners will be politically "activated" when they realize that any citizen from the 49 other states can get a permit and carry in CA, when CA's own citizens can't. If nothing else, it serves to make CA's permitting system seem ridiculous to the whole nation. You would think that such a state of affairs would bring about multiple lawsuits, as it would certainly be California denying a "benefit" (maybe a right or priviledge) to its own residents which it is obligated by law to provide to non-residents

wildhawker
02-07-2010, 4:39 PM
We can raise $12k in *days*. Maybe he should plan on joining us at an upcoming Calguns booth. :43:

7x57
02-07-2010, 5:02 PM
We can raise $12k in *days*. Maybe he should plan on joining us at an upcoming Calguns booth. :43:

At the Cow Palace in the heart of enemy territory. :43:

And Costa Mesa too, but the symbolism isn't quite as sweet.

7x57

wildhawker
02-07-2010, 5:10 PM
At the Cow Palace in the heart of enemy territory. :43:

And Costa Mesa too, but the symbolism isn't quite as sweet.

7x57

You are reading my mind. :26: :31:

hill billy
02-07-2010, 5:22 PM
Around 12K is what's being looked at. Do you know anything that fits the requirements that's cheaper? PM me so I can send it off to the sheriff.

No, I don't. Just wondering what the goal is. I'd sure like to help him out.

Glock22Fan
02-07-2010, 6:30 PM
I applaud this initiative. However, my experience is that Livescan is not perfect. My prints were taken by LVMPD by Livescan at their Fingerprint bureau and were rejected by the state and by FBI. I submitted another Livescan set and they were rejected again. Apparently, my fingertips are so worn (looking after horses and other work around my home?) that they just didn't take. Fortunately, Nevada was able to issue my CCW on the basis that name checks etc. after two attempts at a fingerprint check revealed no disqualifications.

I did ask LVMPD if that meant that I needn't wear gloves when committing crimes, but just got a strained smile from them. :D

I find it amusing that the CSI shows show single partial fingerprints on some pretty shaky substrates being identified all the time, but my ten-set on Livescan wasn't enough.

BTW, those who know, does that Congress reciprocity bill allow a California resident to carry in 49 states based on a non-resident permit issued by, say, Utah or Nevada? Does it apply in those states (2 IIRC) that do not currently issue CCW's and do not allow it.

bwiese
02-07-2010, 6:35 PM
Looks like there's quite a bit of used Identix products on E-Bay at rational prices. (Identix TouchPrint seems to be one of the devices.) Unsure of what specifically is required of the device - connectivity etc.

Gray Peterson
02-07-2010, 6:46 PM
Oregon LiveScan Specs (http://www.oregon.gov/OSP/ID/livescan_specs.shtml)

Purple K
02-07-2010, 6:52 PM
2010 is proving to be very promising for gun owners.

wildhawker
02-07-2010, 7:31 PM
2010 is proving to be very promising for gun owners.

7miRCLeFSJo

microwaveguy
02-07-2010, 7:47 PM
At the Cow Palace in the heart of enemy territory. :43:

And Costa Mesa too, but the symbolism isn't quite as sweet.

7x57

I would try to be one of the first 100 in line :D


The other thought is there another facility that the sheriff can park for a few hours and borrow / rent equipment and process applicants or is there something i don't know and he needs his own machine ?

wildhawker
02-07-2010, 7:52 PM
My local UPS Store has a LiveScan and regularly do FBI/DOJ scans for customers.

Purple K
02-07-2010, 9:34 PM
For this to be truly successful we'll have to publicise the Oregon CHL requirements for documents required. Applicants would need to bring proof of shooting compitency with them to the location of the Live Scan operation. Oregon requires proof of successfully completing a basic pistol course. They don't specify what course, just something pistol related taught by an NRA instructor. We have five weeks until the COW Palace show to get the word out and make this happen.

dantodd
02-07-2010, 10:05 PM
My local UPS Store has a LiveScan and regularly do FBI/DOJ scans for customers.

Will they rent the equipment out for a day or two?

wildhawker
02-07-2010, 10:07 PM
I doubt it's "portable", but if we offer a substantial turnout it might be possible to negotiate. I'll put some feelers out.

dantodd
02-07-2010, 10:15 PM
I doubt it's "portable", but if we offer a substantial turnout it might be possible to negotiate. I'll put some feelers out.

Doesn't it just plug in? I can't imagine it is terribly heavy. Does it require a network connection?

dantodd
02-07-2010, 10:24 PM
Cross Match sells their portable ID500 with software for $7200. He'd have to supply a laptop.
That's the Florida contract price direct from MFG. I'm sure a municipal agency could do equally well, if not directly then through a distributor.

Sgt Raven
02-07-2010, 10:52 PM
For this to be truly successful we'll have to publicise the Oregon CHL requirements for documents required. Applicants would need to bring proof of shooting compitency with them to the location of the Live Scan operation. Oregon requires proof of successfully completing a basic pistol course. They don't specify what course, just something pistol related taught by an NRA instructor. We have five weeks until the COW Palace show to get the word out and make this happen.

If the Sheriff came to the Cow Palace Gun Show there is a guy who gives a CCW class at the show, for those who need the certificate.

Gray Peterson
02-07-2010, 11:16 PM
Here is the Oregon Revised Statutes on this issue:

(f) Demonstrates competence with a handgun by any one of the following:
(A) Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the State Department of Fish and Wildlife or a similar agency of another state if handgun safety was a component of the course;
(B) Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course if handgun safety was a component of the course;
(C) Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by law enforcement, community college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or a law enforcement agency if handgun safety was a component of the course;
(D) Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, reserve law enforcement officers or any other law enforcement officers if handgun safety was a component of the course;
(E) Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a handgun through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;
(F) Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state, unless the license has been revoked; or
(G) Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a firearms instructor certified by a law enforcement agency or the National Rifle Association if handgun safety was a component of the course;

pitchbaby
02-07-2010, 11:39 PM
I don't think the reserve office concept is all that good of an idea at this time. It is exceedingly nebulous on certain legalities, and it comes so shortly before carry licensing is about to be liberalized nationwide that I'm not sure the rewards offset the risks.

In fact, I expect we'll have 49 state reciprocity in the next 18 months from Congress (you can carry in any state except carrying in your own requires your state's license.)

-Gene

I usually agree hook line and sinker with Gene. However, the way I understand the legislation that almost passed and will likely soon pass, I thought you had to have a permit from your home state for this mandated "reciprocity" to apply to you. What good is that for Californians and New Yorkers? Just because non-residents would be able to carry here with such legislation does not mean that our state legislature will follow suit and allow our state citizens the same rights.

Personally, I don't feel the "reserve" officer idea will effect my personal right to carry either way, but it still seems more valid than ever of an idea to level the playing field where the state legislature's REFUSE to listen to the people, or just straight up common sense!

Having gotten that out of my system, I think I can get a donation out to the good sheriff. Where do I send the check? Also, I am forwarding this thread to the CCW instructor I used in Reno, NV. During the class, she encourages her students to get an Oregon permit since it is so close to Nevada and California.

dantodd
02-07-2010, 11:43 PM
For this to be truly successful we'll have to publicise the Oregon CHL requirements for documents required. Applicants would need to bring proof of shooting compitency with them to the location of the Live Scan operation. Oregon requires proof of successfully completing a basic pistol course. They don't specify what course, just something pistol related taught by an NRA instructor. We have five weeks until the COW Palace show to get the word out and make this happen.

I suspect you could do all the paperwork and live scan at the show and forward your competency documentation later and he'll send the CCW in the mail. They'd probably have to wait on the background check etc. anyway.

pitchbaby
02-07-2010, 11:50 PM
It would take about 10 days for the background results to get back. That is plenty of time to get a class together if you have NRA instructors on board with this plan.

pitchbaby
02-07-2010, 11:58 PM
Regarding the "Cow Palace" event mentioned in this thread to happen in 5 weeks or so.... the only thing I can find in the events thread near that time is a show at Cal Expo. Is there something I am missing? Wherever it is we can get this Sheriff, I would like to come to show support. Let me know, thanks!

bigcalidave
02-08-2010, 12:03 AM
I've been looking for a good way to get an Oregon CHL, Can't WAIT to have this sheriff at one of our nor cal shows!! Tons of us go up to Oregon all the time here. I just don't drive that far into the eastern state, so this would be extremely convenient.

Would the process just be show up at a show booth with proof of some competency training, fill out a form, and get fingerprinted and photographed?
Wonderful!

Is it really only $65 ???

Sgt Raven
02-08-2010, 12:12 AM
Regarding the "Cow Palace" event mentioned in this thread to happen in 5 weeks or so.... the only thing I can find in the events thread near that time is a show at Cal Expo. Is there something I am missing? Wherever it is we can get this Sheriff, I would like to come to show support. Let me know, thanks!

Crossroads of the West gun show at The Cow Palace Mar 13/14 2010. Now if we could get the good Sheriff there with a live-scan machine. :D

dantodd
02-08-2010, 12:13 AM
Crossroads of the West gun show at The Cow Palace Mar 13/14 2010. Now if we could get the good Sheriff there with a live-scan machine. :D

My daughter is due on the 12th. Hope she come early or on time.

"Honey, I know you're in labor but is it ok if I leave for a couple hours? I have to get fingerprinted."

pitchbaby
02-08-2010, 12:15 AM
There is a gun show listed at Cal Expo on March 6th and 7th. Could we have it there? It is more centrally located off I-5 and Sacramento is a much easier city to navigate in terms of traffic and other logistics. I realize the symbolism in having it at SF, even the Cow Palace no less, but if people are going to have to travel from all over the state.... I think it would be best to serve the needs of the many and have a better turn out as a result.

Additionally, I have found this link regarding Oregon CHL's:

http://www.oregonfirearms.org/chlcentral/

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 3:43 AM
Having gotten that out of my system, I think I can get a donation out to the good sheriff. Where do I send the check? Also, I am forwarding this thread to the CCW instructor I used in Reno, NV. During the class, she encourages her students to get an Oregon permit since it is so close to Nevada and California.

Here ya go.

In an e-mail to us yesterday the sheriff said "If they want to send it to me at 205 South Humbolt Street Canyon City, Or. 97820 with a note for fingerprint machine I will put it into our monthly turn over with a line to a specific account that is and will be used for the upgrade on the equipment....what ever you can come up with would be wonderful too!!!!"

press1280
02-08-2010, 3:57 AM
A lot of other states' localities use LiveScan, but it seems(at least the case when I applied for a FL permit) they won't accept LiveScan electronic transmissions from out of state departments. If this OR sheriff came up with a way to receive LiveScan from other places, wouldn't that take care of that requirement and allow people to do the rest by mail? Or, have the LiveScan just print out on fingerprint cards(that's what I did for FL w/no problem)? Or is it required you must be printed by an OR sheriff in person?

MP301
02-08-2010, 6:14 AM
Seems like folks are looking for another way to "borrow" a livescan so they cab get an Oregon CCW at the Cow Palace in a one time event.

The reality is, they guy needs his own machine and he apparently wants to go to several gun shows in the surrounding states. Maybe even on a semi reguar basis, not just next month!

So im in..have not gotten around to getting the Ore CCW yet so im in...I think he deserves his own livescan for just being a pro-gun-ccw-issuing-sheriff!

GUNPAL Transaction ID: BA5F7ED138A948

1923mack
02-08-2010, 7:18 AM
How far up Oregon is his county? I get to southeren Oregon a few times a year.

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 7:26 AM
How far up Oregon is his county? I get to southeren Oregon a few times a year.http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Map_of_Oregon_highlighting_Grant_County.svg/200px-Map_of_Oregon_highlighting_Grant_County.svg.png

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 7:44 AM
A lot of other states' localities use LiveScan, but it seems(at least the case when I applied for a FL permit) they won't accept LiveScan electronic transmissions from out of state departments. If this OR sheriff came up with a way to receive LiveScan from other places, wouldn't that take care of that requirement and allow people to do the rest by mail? Or, have the LiveScan just print out on fingerprint cards(that's what I did for FL w/no problem)? Or is it required you must be printed by an OR sheriff in person?

The LiveScan would be for live submission of the data to the Oregon State Police. The LiveScans that are for FBI and CALDOJ are specifically configured for that particular state and allowed on via a process of authentication with the DOJ, as they just don't allow anyone to just log in.

artherd
02-08-2010, 10:08 AM
I just spoke with Sheriff Palmer, CGN is getting behind this effort, and I look forward to shaking his hand in CA soon!

Please donate now, GUNPAL link added to the first post or click here:
https://www.gunpal.net/images/xpressbuttons/buy-now-buttons-small-donate.png (https://www.gunpal.net/gp?req=xpress&hbid=0000000007645701)

MasterYong
02-08-2010, 10:11 AM
:popcorn:

D-Man
02-08-2010, 10:14 AM
I am an NRA instructor in SoCal that would be happy to help teach classes to support this effort. Let me know what you need to get this going.

offdeez
02-08-2010, 10:32 AM
Sorry, but I don't understand. How does an Oregon cc permit help us here in CA? Don't flame, I read all 6 pages before asking . Thanks

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 10:34 AM
Sorry, but I don't understand. How does an Oregon cc permit help us here in CA? Don't flame, I read all 6 pages before asking . Thanks

Same reason people here in California who don't have a CCW but permit collect states like Nevada, Oregon, WA, Florida, Utah, etc. You have a bunch of those kinds of folks in California.

Plus it's great PR. "A sheriff in Oregon trusts Californians to carry more so than California's sheriffs. What's up with that?".

zinfull
02-08-2010, 10:35 AM
Sounds good to me. I just sent gunpal a couple bucks to help out. If it does not work donate to coffee and donuts, they are good guys.

jerry

7x57
02-08-2010, 10:49 AM
I am an NRA instructor in SoCal that would be happy to help teach classes to support this effort. Let me know what you need to get this going.

I'd be happy to assist. Let me know if you do this.

7x57

devildog999
02-08-2010, 12:08 PM
So just to clear things up for me..... is it good in any states other than Oregon, and I'm assuming it isn't good for Cali? Either way I'm in.

Glock22Fan
02-08-2010, 12:31 PM
Sorry, but I don't understand. How does an Oregon cc permit help us here in CA? Don't flame, I read all 6 pages before asking . Thanks


Don't forget, Oregon is close enough that many of us visit Oregon frequently, and would like to be able to carry concealed protection while there.

And, as also said, there are those who collect CCW's as they might basketball cards.

Personally, I'm in neither camp, as I don't collect them for the sake of it and haven't been to Oregon for many years, but if I did go there from time to time, I'd be interested.

And, as people have said, it is nice to demonstrate that other states trust us more than Cali does.

I concealed carry regularly in Nevada, Utah, Texas and Arizona. I am legal to carry concealed in another 20 or so states, but I visit them rarely.

Antix
02-08-2010, 1:04 PM
I just gave $50 to the cause!

Good luck, Sheriff! Hope to see you at the Glendale Gun Show.

PanchoVilla
02-08-2010, 1:31 PM
I had a question on a CCW, is it valid only in the county issued, or for the whole state? How do you find that out. If its the whole state I would get one in a heartbeat as I am in Oregon a couple times a year.

artherd
02-08-2010, 1:32 PM
I consider it my birthright to be able to defend myself at Cannon Beach :)

D-Man
02-08-2010, 1:33 PM
Valid state wide. Just like CA. Local Sheriff has the discretion to issue. Some counties will not issue to non-residents, others will. Your permit is valid state wide.

artherd
02-08-2010, 1:38 PM
Update: we've raised $647.94 in less than 4 hours! Fewer than half of the CGN emails have even gone out - WOW I love Calguns!!!

guns_and_labs
02-08-2010, 1:39 PM
Donation sent -- does $200 sound about right? This seems a "good thing", for lots of reasons.

pitchbaby
02-08-2010, 2:07 PM
Sorry, but I don't understand. How does an Oregon cc permit help us here in CA? Don't flame, I read all 6 pages before asking . Thanks

Oregon is not accepted anywhere else except for states that make it a policy to accept permits from ANY state that issues one. Neither does Oregon recognize any sort of reciprocity from ANY other states at all.

States that accept ANY states permit are:

Kentucky, Idaho, Indiana, Oklahoma, Arizona, Tennessee, Missouri, Utah, South Dakota, and Alaska. Michigan will recognize any state permit if it is from your resident state only.

tyrtl
02-08-2010, 2:07 PM
Good luck... gave a few $$$ for the cause. Hope to see the Sheriff in the Costa Mesa show in March!!

pitchbaby
02-08-2010, 2:17 PM
Sent my $50! Who's next?

Joe
02-08-2010, 2:19 PM
This is pretty cool. tagged for later reading

wildhawker
02-08-2010, 2:31 PM
I just got off the phone with Sheriff Palmer, and am genuinely humbled by his passion and dedication to the 2A community. It's a privilege to work with a professional such as him in making Oregon CHL permits accessible to California residents, and I look forward to supporting his efforts here in California with many of you.

With that in mind, Calguns Outreach will be assisting he and his department with logistical and scheduling considerations. Per my conversation, he hopes to have enough money raised between Calguns and other groups in WA, OR and ID to purchase the machine by the end of this month. If possible, I hope to welcome him to California and to the Calguns community on March 13-14 at the Cow Palace gun show in Daly City.

As more information is available one of us will be sure to pass it along. Thank you for supporting this worthy cause, and please do thank Sheriff Palmer for his generous support of and commitment to California's gun community.

obeygiant
02-08-2010, 2:45 PM
12k? We should easily be able to raise that for him. I think everyone here would want an Oregon CHL.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
02-08-2010, 2:58 PM
I sent $20 to Grant County. Gotta like a sheriff who's willing to go to these lengths to help folks get their CCW.

7x57
02-08-2010, 3:00 PM
Rural sheriffs FTW! :D

7x57

POINTMANDDT
02-08-2010, 3:00 PM
Before I donate, someone please help me on this one. What would be the difference between an OR CCW in California to a Utah CCW. The holder will still not be able to Conceal Carry legally in California right? Thanks for you help on this one guys.

wildhawker
02-08-2010, 3:12 PM
Before I donate, someone please help me on this one. What would be the difference between an OR CCW in California to a Utah CCW. The holder will still not be able to Conceal Carry legally in California right? Thanks for you help on this one guys.

OR gets you OR and any other state(s) that recognize OR non-resident CHLs.

zum
02-08-2010, 3:18 PM
Before I donate, someone please help me on this one. What would be the difference between an OR CCW in California to a Utah CCW. The holder will still not be able to Conceal Carry legally in California right? Thanks for you help on this one guys.

Oregon is not accepted anywhere else except for states that make it a policy to accept permits from ANY state that issues one. Neither does Oregon recognize any sort of reciprocity from ANY other states at all.

States that accept ANY states permit are:

Kentucky, Idaho, Indiana, Oklahoma, Arizona, Tennessee, Missouri, Utah, South Dakota, and Alaska. Michigan will recognize any state permit if it is from your resident state only.

ywia :D

7x57
02-08-2010, 3:21 PM
Before I donate, someone please help me on this one. What would be the difference between an OR CCW in California to a Utah CCW. The holder will still not be able to Conceal Carry legally in California right? Thanks for you help on this one guys.

Google says the following:

Oregon doesn't recognize any other permit, so to carry in Oregon you have to have an Oregon CCW. Period.

Oregon doesn't have any special reciprocity agreements, so I don't think there is anywhere outside of Oregon you can carry on an Oregon permit that you couldn't carry on a Utah permit. It's all about carrying in Oregon.

ETA: and as already stated, Oregon has a face-to-face requirement so you have to go to Oregon to get your permit--unless some sheriff believes in the 2A enough to go the extra mile and come to us. :D

7x57

pitchbaby
02-08-2010, 3:23 PM
OR gets you OR and any other state(s) that recognize OR non-resident CHLs.

I made a post on page 7 that details where Oregon permit is accepted.

Would any and all others planning to travel to NorCal for an Oregon permit please weigh in on location. According to the events thread here at Calguns, there is a show with a Calguns booth at Cal Expo in Sacramento one week before the event at the Cow Palace.

I have a car that runs veggie oil and live only 90 minutes from SF, so going there for me is a one day deal, and very easy to do. However, I have been to the Cow Palace before. It is a crummy area to say the least! Traffic sucks, roads suck, parking sucks! Why put out the a great majority of the Calgun community to have the sheriff come to SF just to make a statement?!?!

I believe it makes better sense to do this plan at a venue that is more appealing to the masses, is easier to get to, easier to navigate, and is more appealing as a travel destination for people who put personal protection as a top priority. Aren't those the kind of ideals that Calgunner's are really about? Do we really need to make it difficult for people to get to just to snub our noses at our state legislatures when we know they don't really listen to us anyway?

wildhawker
02-08-2010, 3:24 PM
I'll stay in touch with the Sheriff and keep you apprised as to which event(s) he will be able to attend.

This is going to be about access and the Sheriff's schedule. Let's not turn this into a "this city" vs. "that city" symbology cluster****.

Contract_Pilot
02-08-2010, 3:31 PM
I know the Oregon Counties around me will make you wait 30 to 90 days before they will even set up your interview.

For me a person that travels a lot and gone for extended for long unknown periods of time this is unacceptable as I do not know when and where I will will be in 30 to 90 days time.

I had a nice little chat with Sheriff Palmer this afternoon he will accept walk-ins mon-thurs mornings nothing after 4pm.

Sheriff Palmer also even offered to pick me up at the airport if he is available but the airport has a courtesy car at the FBO car so I can go to town.

About time we have a sheriff that is willing to help people defend themselves.

he gets a +10.

pitchbaby
02-08-2010, 3:31 PM
I whole heartedly agree with that WildHawker, I would LOVE to see this about scheduling before making a "statement". I just want to be sure that if it has to be at Cow, we do it for the right reason's and don't snub a better venue just to send a message to a bunch of people who don't really care to listen anyway.

Noel
02-08-2010, 3:35 PM
Tag for gun show schedule....

bigcalidave
02-08-2010, 3:39 PM
Great !!! Let's get those donations in!

choprzrul
02-08-2010, 3:43 PM
On a side note, perhaps the fine sheriff should have a website where he can accept campaign donations???

Just a thought.

ssnxp
02-08-2010, 3:45 PM
I hope he makes it to Costa Mesa, this sounds amazing! I'm in for $20

k1dude
02-08-2010, 3:49 PM
I just sent $20. GUNPAL Transaction ID: BA5F7ED1302750

POINTMANDDT
02-08-2010, 3:51 PM
Okay so if I get the Utah and OR permits, I'm pretty well cover? That is except for my own state of course. Also, I may have missed it but what is the cost (whole cost) of this permit?

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 3:51 PM
Before I donate, someone please help me on this one. What would be the difference between an OR CCW in California to a Utah CCW. The holder will still not be able to Conceal Carry legally in California right? Thanks for you help on this one guys.

Utah recognizes all out of state licenses to carry for those purposes. Oregon recognizes no one else's licenses. One can open carry, but Oregon's preemption law allows cities and counties (7 cities have banned all loaded carry without CHL) to pass ordinances against it, which does not apply to you if you have a CHL. Also, state statutes disallow carry in ANY public building, and the Oregon definition of public building is very expansive. However, CHL holders are exempt.

D-Man
02-08-2010, 3:58 PM
As others have said. Oregon, gets you Oregon, plus the other states that recognize all others. Utah gets you 30 states you can carry in. A great reciprocity map is at usacarry.com

I have offered up my services as an NRA instructor to help people meet the training requirement, as have a couple of others. PM me about your requirements of what you want and we can work out costs. This is a great thing and I am happy to support it.

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 4:03 PM
Folks, let's remember one thing: Sheriff Palmer wants to do venues in the contiguous states surrounding Oregon, including Washington State, Idaho, and Nevada, so y'all gonna have to share. :)

One of the show weekends he wants to do is in Washington State, specifically the WAC show in Puyallup on March 27 and 28th, and I hope to be helping him with that setup.

I spoke with Sheriff Palmer this morning with Ben Cannon in the morning, and he had no idea that there such a large pro-gun movement in California! He wasn't even aware of CalGuns group or CGF, but I brought him up to speed and explained Sykes v. McGinness and Pena v. Cid, and the fact there CalGuns has been quite the insurgent group kicking the anti-gunners and California DOJ Firearms Bureau in the teeth for the last 5 years.

Up until today, he thought California was "too far gone" like many of the firearms vendors who refuse to sell to California (though he would always give a Californian a CHL). Given how much we've raised just today before people started coming home from work, and how much we can more in the next few weeks, it will stun him how much we care about this issue.

POINTMANDDT
02-08-2010, 4:03 PM
As others have said. Oregon, gets you Oregon, plus the other states that recognize all others. Utah gets you 30 states you can carry in. A great reciprocity map is at usacarry.com

I have offered up my services as an NRA instructor to help people meet the training requirement, as have a couple of others. PM me about your requirements of what you want and we can work out costs. This is a great thing and I am happy to support it.


I found this too.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/LicMaps/ccwmap.php

D-Man
02-08-2010, 4:07 PM
Yes, handgunlaw.us has a good map as well. Just my personal experience that uscca.us and usacarry.com tend to update theirs a little quicker with changes between states.

bmuoio
02-08-2010, 4:12 PM
Excuse me if I missed a quote but I understand he is issuing CCW for CA residents but does this only hold up in Oregon?

guns_and_labs
02-08-2010, 4:18 PM
So, if one has UT or NV CCW, this is a walk-in app at the gun show, no additional (training course) requirements?

jeferd
02-08-2010, 4:18 PM
Funds sent!!

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 4:21 PM
So, if one has UT or NV CCW, this is a walk-in app at the gun show, no additional (training course) requirements?

Make sure you have your training certificate that got you those licenses, and make sure it says something about "pistol" or "handgun" training. That should work for this purpose.

7x57
02-08-2010, 4:27 PM
Sheriff Palmer also even offered to pick me up at the airport if he is available but the airport has a courtesy car at the FBO car so I can go to town.


OK, now we're beyond "supports the Second Amendment" and into Science-Fiction territory.

I think it's a dream and will all be gone when I wake up,:TFH: but I like the dream. ;)

ETA: once again, rural sheriffs FTW. Now you know why some of us have a different image of what law enforcement can be than you city boys. America still happens, sometimes.

7x57

Liberty1
02-08-2010, 4:31 PM
Don't forget, Oregon is close enough that many of us visit Oregon frequently, and would like to be able to carry concealed protection while there.

And the Oregon license is needed to open carry in those Oregon cities which prohibit unlicensed open carry (the license trumps the local oc bans).

7x57
02-08-2010, 4:32 PM
Up until today, he thought California was "too far gone" like many of the firearms vendors who refuse to sell to California (though he would always give a Californian a CHL). Given how much we've raised just today before people started coming home from work, and how much we can more in the next few weeks, it will stun him how much we care about this issue.

Say, to all those who have been so upset at how out of state vendors and gunnies treat the California Resistance :D, guess what would be a really great way to do something positive for CA's image? :thumbsup:

Between this and the whole EPA thing, I think there is room to put out a very different image of CA gun rights people that can get before a wider audience. IOW, this has potential to be bigger than CCWs for some Californians travelling in Oregon.

7x57

bigcalidave
02-08-2010, 4:34 PM
I agree, and I can't wait for big news articles with pictures of this Sheriff at a CGF booth at a gun show !!!!!!!!

D-Man
02-08-2010, 4:34 PM
So, if one has UT or NV CCW, this is a walk-in app at the gun show, no additional (training course) requirements?
Correct. It won't hurt if you have your certificate with the NRA instructor's number on it. Both of those states require their instructor's to be NRA certified before they can become CCW instructors.

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 4:36 PM
And the Oregon license is needed to open carry in those cities which prohibit unlicensed open carry (the license trumps the local oc bans).

Not to mention you cannot carry in ANY government owned building in Oregon, open or concealed, without a CHL. It applies to state, county, and local government. With a CHL, are only restricted from a Courthouse (there is no check-in procedure, you walk in and you risk being arrested for a felony), sterile area of an airport, restricted access area of a correction facility (such as visiting an inmate on an open visit area). If you have a CHL, Oregon has very few places off limits, and you can technically carry in schools (just like California). The anti-gunners have been trying to for years to ban school carry and never succeed because of Oregon Firearms Federation among other groups.

Without a CHL, however, there's a lot of places banned by that public building law. You can't even carry in a library without a CHL there (someone in Klamath County got arrested for doing exactly that).

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 4:44 PM
Correct. It won't hurt if you have your certificate with the NRA instructor's number on it. Both of those states require their instructor's to be NRA certified before they can become CCW instructors.

The permit themselves will not work. The training certificates themselves will if they state "pistol" or "handgun safety". I posted the competency requirements earlier in the thread.

D-Man
02-08-2010, 4:47 PM
The permit themselves will not work. The training certificates themselves will if they state "pistol" or "handgun safety". I posted the competency requirements earlier in the thread.

Correct. Or CCW class, or something that is along those lines. My certificates include my credentials in case any state agency wants to verify what was taught. Better to be safe then sorry.

pitchbaby
02-08-2010, 4:55 PM
As a hobby, I have a crew man and a comprehensive video setup. I think it might be a good idea to make a 10 to 20 minute documentary about this that could be used to spread the word about the sheriff. Again... feedback about if this is a viable idea and how this could actually be used to advance the cause. I don't want to spend the time and money on it if it has little potential to be of any practical use.


Let's keep this thread and topic focused on helping this Sheriff and not sidetrack in to another subject.
Thanks, K.

This is focused on the Sheriff.... I am interested in what you think the documentary could be about if it weren't about the Sheriff? If for no other purpose, I would give the footage away to the media if the consensus of people here at Calguns was that it would be a good idea.... Let me make it very clear.... I am not in this for myself, I am in this for the good of everyone. If you think otherwise, then stop thinking that and get on board with the idea that what I aim to do is be of service. If that service is not wanted.... simply say so.... but to accuse me of trying to draw away attention is simply a false accusation that I clearly am not appreciative of.

wash
02-08-2010, 5:20 PM
You can't borrow a handgun in CA unless you have an HSC. Would that card be sufficient for the training?

The requirement seems vague enough for an HSC to qualify and they are pretty cheap.

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 5:43 PM
(G) Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a firearms instructor certified by a law enforcement agency or the National Rifle Association if handgun safety was a component of the course;

It's a class. DOJ is a law enforcement agency. I would think the answer is yes. I hadn't even THOUGHT of the HSC, considering how many people have that.

Racefiend
02-08-2010, 5:50 PM
But would self study materials count as "conducted"? After all, it's a self study test.

D-Man
02-08-2010, 5:51 PM
It is a gray area to me. My guess is that it would depend on the issuing agency if they would accept that or not.

ArmedWolf
02-08-2010, 5:54 PM
Amazing, just the other day I was thinking of going for an Oregon permit with as often the family goes up there.

Anyone have recommendations for handgun courses in/around Sacramento to have the needed paperwork?

JaMail
02-08-2010, 5:59 PM
i really think the California Handgun Safety Certificate counts.

You have to have it to buy a handgun, its issued by the California DOJ. and given out by certified proctors and we have to pay a fee to take the test, and it comes with a study guide you can read before you take the test.

One of you guys should get with the sherrif and ask him if he would accept it.

ricochet
02-08-2010, 6:00 PM
Can someone post (preferably in 1 post) what benefit this is, what steps to go through and what costs are involved ?

For those of us not familiar w/the process and such, it'll be helpful.

I thought I had to be a resident of OR ? How does that allow me to carry to defend myself in CA ? Etc ...

Thanks in advance.

Anothercoilgun
02-08-2010, 6:15 PM
Think about how many gun more gun owners will be politically "activated" when they realize that any citizen from the 49 other states can get a permit and carry in CA, when CA's own citizens can't. If nothing else, it serves to make CA's permitting system seem ridiculous to the whole nation.

That makes a lot of sense. I am sold. Now what is the process for Oregon CCW?

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 6:16 PM
Can someone post (preferably in 1 post) what benefit this is, what steps to go through and what costs are involved ?

The benefit is that A) You'd be able to carry concealed anywhere in the State of Oregon, B) You'd be able to carry (in all forms) in any "public building" (besides courthouses and jail facilities) in the state and C) You would be exempt from any "local loaded carry bans" that are in effect in the state's northwestern corridor (Portland, Salem, Beaverton, etc).

For those of us not familiar w/the process and such, it'll be helpful.

$65, requires a photograph and fingerprinting. For residents of Oregon it's shall-issue. For residents of contiguous states (CA, NV, ID, WA) it's may-issue in a similar vein to California. However, Sheriff Palmer is a true believer in the right to keep and bear arms and will issue for personal protection without asking more questions.

I thought I had to be a resident of OR ?

See above. Many counties in Oregon have chosen to make it deliberately difficult to get a non-resident license. Sheriff Palmer will not play those games and will issue for personal protection, period.

How does that allow me to carry to defend myself in CA ? Etc ...

It doesn't do that. The point is to give an opportunity to carry in the state immediately to the north of California, and it's damned good PR against the Sheriffs who refuse to trust their own citizens, but an Oregon Sheriff willingly gives out licenses to carry from his state to them.

blakdawg
02-08-2010, 6:26 PM
Sounds good to me - $100 sent, transaction ID BA5F7ED1338E20.

The e-mail I got says this isn't tax deductible. I don't see why not - 26 USC 170(c) defines "charitable contribution" as "contribution or gift to or for the use of—(1) A State, a possession of the United States, or any political subdivision of any of the foregoing, or the United States or the District of Columbia, but only if the contribution or gift is made for exclusively public purposes."

As it happens, I am a tax attorney, but I'm not YOUR tax attorney unless you've paid me a retainer, so discuss this with your tax preparer/counsel for its treatment on your return.

But absent a compelling explanation of why it's NOT deductible, it's gonna show up on mine next year . . .

(To address an easy objection or question - it would not be a contribution or a gift if it were made with "strings attached" or with the expectation that you'd receive something of value in return, e.g., charity "fund-raisers" where you get a raffle ticket, or PBS pledge drives where you get a book for donating. In this case - at least for my donation - I'm expecting nothing in return for my gift. I agree that a CCW permit/application fee would not be deductible as a charitable contribution, but that's not what's being sought here.)

As far as I'm concerned, a gift to a city or county for the purpose of purchasing additional equipment to be owned/used by the county is slam-dunk deductible as a matter of federal law, and by extension will be deductible on most state returns, too.

ricochet
02-08-2010, 6:33 PM
Fills in a lot of gaps; thanks. Aren't there other requirements/costs involved ? Does the OR permit grant me reciprocity (not for CA obviously) ? I travel to Nevada & Arizona more often than OR ?

MaynardLurker
02-08-2010, 6:59 PM
$100 donated. Transaction ID: BA5F7ED1339E2C.

D-Man
02-08-2010, 7:25 PM
Fills in a lot of gaps; thanks. Aren't there other requirements/costs involved ? Does the OR permit grant me reciprocity (not for CA obviously) ? I travel to Nevada & Arizona more often than OR ?

Nevada only accepts a couple other states. You pretty much need a Nevada issued non-resident CCW. I have a good contact in Vegas if you are interested in taking a class out there.

selket
02-08-2010, 7:30 PM
Sorry to ask this question, but I am a bit confused.
Will the CCW issued by Sheriff Palmer be valid here in California? Gene (above) posted about the permit being valid in all adjacent states but not your own.
Maybe I'm mixing up two different statements. If so, please let me know as I admit to being a newbie around here.

wildhawker
02-08-2010, 7:33 PM
Sorry to ask this question, but I am a bit confused.
Will the CCW issued by Sheriff Palmer be valid here in California? Gene (above) posted about the permit being valid in all adjacent states but not your own.
Maybe I'm mixing up two different statements. If so, please let me know as I admit to being a newbie around here.

No, it will not be valid anywhere in CA.

I believe you are thinking of the CCW reciprocity bill likely forthcoming through Congress.

ShootinMedic
02-08-2010, 8:04 PM
I'll send a donation as soon as I get home in the morning. If he is able to come to the sac gun show I'll be there, but I can't come to the cow show :(

Quemtimebo
02-08-2010, 8:12 PM
This is fantastic! I drive up to Washington from LA to see my folks a couple of times a year, and this would definitely give me an extra measure of peace of mind. If only I were entitled to that peace of mind while being stuck in traffic trying to get out of California... Donated! :D

IrishPirate
02-08-2010, 8:20 PM
So, if we do get reciprocity through Congress and we happen to have an Oregon CCW, will it be honored here in CA? or would we still need to get a CA CCW to legally carry concealed in PRK? (hopefully that wasn't asked in the past 13 pages too many times.....:D)

guns_and_labs
02-08-2010, 8:23 PM
So, if we do get reciprocity through Congress and we happen to have an Oregon CCW, will it be honored here in CA? or would we still need to get a CA CCW to legally carry concealed in PRK? (hopefully that wasn't asked in the past 13 pages too many times.....:D)

It was.

ChrisTKHarris
02-08-2010, 8:35 PM
Do CCW/CHL need to be renewed every few years? Or is it a one time deal?

blakdawg
02-08-2010, 8:35 PM
Sorry to ask this question, but I am a bit confused.
Will the CCW issued by Sheriff Palmer be valid here in California?

An OR CCW permit will not allow you to carry concealed in California as a matter of current CA/federal law.

Gene (above) posted about the permit being valid in all adjacent states but not your own.

Some people believe that Congress will pass a new federal law in the next few years that will mandate some form of nationwide reciprocity, except in the state where one is a resident. (E.g., a CA resident with an OR CCW could carry in OR, NY and, IL, but not CA. An WA resident with an OR CCW could carry in OR, CA, NY or IL, but not WA.)

The details of that legislation are obviously unknown today since it hasn't passed yet. Also, it's a pretty safe bet that anti-gun mayors/governors would work together to challenge the legislation, which might result in its effectiveness being delayed during court challenge(s).

Oregon's CCW license law (ORS 166.291, see <http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html>) says that an applicant must be a resident of the county where they apply; except that the sheriff can waive that requirement for residents of a contiguous state (CA, NV, ID, WA, per ORS 166.490) "who [have] a compelling business interest or other legitimate demonstrated need".

That's where the "adjacent state" (in Oregon terms, "contiguous state") language comes in.

Blacky
02-08-2010, 8:43 PM
i really think the California Handgun Safety Certificate counts.

You have to have it to buy a handgun, its issued by the California DOJ. and given out by certified proctors and we have to pay a fee to take the test, and it comes with a study guide you can read before you take the test.

One of you guys should get with the sherrif and ask him if he would accept it.

How about it? This has to be the easiest qualification, will the good sheriff accept it?

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 8:53 PM
How about it? This has to be the easiest qualification, will the good sheriff accept it?

Email has been sent to Sheriff Palmer asking him about it, along with all of the stakeholders involved.

TreeServ
02-08-2010, 9:01 PM
The California Handgun Safety Certificate does not show competency with any given pistol, there is no "live fire" component. The NRA First Steps program is a three (3) hour program that does include a live fire exercise. The NRA Basic Pistol course is ten (10) hours with more live fire. Personally, neither of these courses adequately prepare a person for the legal complexities of CCW. The California Handgun Safety Certificate should be term-limited out just like Perata, neither of which are/were CCW friendly.

This is just my opinion,

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 9:14 PM
The California Handgun Safety Certificate does not show competency with any given pistol, there is no "live fire" component.

There is no "Live Fire" requirement in the Oregon statute.

(f) Demonstrates competence with a handgun by any one of the following:
(G) Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a firearms instructor certified by a law enforcement agency or the National Rifle Association if handgun safety was a component of the course;

It's a statutory definition of competence under the Oregon state statute. Your definition of competence, especially as an NRA instructor, is markedly different, because the Oregon requirements are intentionally low in order to not discourage CHL applications. It's not like CA where it's either a 16 hour or a 24 hour class.

putput
02-08-2010, 9:20 PM
So if the Handgun Safety Certificate is not good enough then can anyone point me to a trainer in the bay area?

On that note, the HSC as a vehicle to an Oregon CCW would just frikin be hilarious since it was setup as an obsticle to handgun ownership.

swhatb
02-08-2010, 9:33 PM
tag

Cokebottle
02-08-2010, 9:37 PM
Sorry, but I don't understand. How does an Oregon cc permit help us here in CA? Don't flame, I read all 6 pages before asking . Thanks
With a Utah and Florida CCW, you are covered in just about every state in the country that does not outright deny issue, with the exceptions of Oregon, Colorado, Michigan, and a few others.
Michigan has reciprocity with California, so if you have a California CCW, you're GTG in Michigan.
With California, Utah, Florida, Oregon and Nevada, you're pretty much covered in all of the western and midwestern states.

IrishPirate
02-08-2010, 9:46 PM
I'm shocked that the other 49 don't have reciprocity with CA. Other than them not liking us for our BS gun laws....wouldn't getting a CCW in CA be such a monumental task that it would surpass the requirements of all the other states? maybe its just my inflated view of how hard it is to get a CCW here, but from what I hear there are more requirements than other states so you figure we'd have to more than satisfy the rest of the countries requirements.

microwaveguy
02-08-2010, 9:48 PM
So if the Handgun Safety Certificate is not good enough then can anyone point me to a trainer in the bay area?

http://www.reedsindoorrange.com/training.html

Bill Tidwell offers a NRA Evening Pistol Course

Also worked for me to get my CMP rifle :D to show marksmanship

GREAT two fer ........... CMP and now I could use it to get an Oregon CCW :D

RP1911
02-08-2010, 9:53 PM
How about an expired CCW from California? Since to get one, you had to do live fire etc.

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 9:57 PM
How about an expired CCW from California? Since to get one, you had to do live fire etc.

You need the training certificate that gave you the qualification for the CCW.

RP1911
02-08-2010, 9:59 PM
I might still have it but it will take quite the effort to find it.

7x57
02-08-2010, 10:05 PM
wouldn't getting a CCW in CA be such a monumental task that it would surpass the requirements of all the other states?

Why would they regard you being a big contributor to a California sheriff's reelection fund as qualifying you to carry in their state? :cool2:

7x57

TreeServ
02-08-2010, 10:24 PM
There is no "Live Fire" requirement in the Oregon statute.

(f) Demonstrates competence with a handgun by any one of the following:
(G) Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a firearms instructor certified by a law enforcement agency or the National Rifle Association if handgun safety was a component of the course;

It's a statutory definition of competence under the Oregon state statute. Your definition of competence, especially as an NRA instructor, is markedly different, because the Oregon requirements are intentionally low in order to not discourage CHL applications. It's not like CA where it's either a 16 hour or a 24 hour class.

I do stand corrected re: the requirements listed in ORS 166.291 do not appear to require "live fire" though the activities cited tend to support skill in shooting. My opinion has not changed, a good CCW course covers more on the legal responsibilities than general shooting skills. Skill can save your life, legal knowledge may preserve your freedom. I choose to have both.

Cheers,

Brianguy
02-08-2010, 10:34 PM
I can't wait till he's in the area. Donation sent.

Gray Peterson
02-08-2010, 11:43 PM
I do stand corrected re: the requirements listed in ORS 166.291 do not appear to require "live fire" though the activities cited tend to support skill in shooting. My opinion has not changed, a good CCW course covers more on the legal responsibilities than general shooting skills. Skill can save your life, legal knowledge may preserve your freedom. I choose to have both.

Cheers,

This is true, however I live up in Washington State where there's been no training required for almost 40 years. We haven't had a rash of shootings by untrained people, as most people who carry do train at their own leisure and time.

Not that there's ANYTHING wrong with training at all. Hell, I'd go through Front Sight or Oregon Firearms Academy once I have the funding.

glbtrottr
02-09-2010, 12:07 AM
donation sent...

IrishPirate
02-09-2010, 12:10 AM
Why would they regard you being a big contributor to a California sheriff's reelection fund as qualifying you to carry in their state? :cool2:

7x57

well played sir....but seriously, if our "requirements" are the same or more than other states, why don't we have reciprocity with them? is it just a f*ck CA thing?

IrishPirate
02-09-2010, 12:14 AM
on a side note....you can get a Utah CCW in CA easy as pie too. Just go to a class (there are more CA instructors than anywhere else!!) and submit the form and fee. wham, bam, you got your Utah CCW! Utah has formal reciprocity with lots of states and a general agreement with others. Not CA of course, but if you've got a CA CCW, a Utah one might help with travels too. just a thought....sorry if this starts a :threadjacked: frenzy

pitchbaby
02-09-2010, 12:15 AM
well played sir....but seriously, if our "requirements" are the same or more than other states, why don't we have reciprocity with them? is it just a f*ck CA thing?

We don't accept theirs, they won't accept ours. Playground rules... it's that simple.

bigcalidave
02-09-2010, 12:19 AM
Why would they regard you being a big contributor to a California sheriff's reelection fund as qualifying you to carry in their state? :cool2:

7x57

To be fair, it's not that hard to get a ccw in most of the state.

That said, nobody recognizes the CA ccw in "RECIPROCITY" because they know that CA won't let holders of their CCWs carry here! That's not reciprocity. CA would have to let people from other states carry!!! OMG NOES.

pitchbaby
02-09-2010, 1:19 AM
On a side note, perhaps the fine sheriff should have a website where he can accept campaign donations???

Just a thought.

I took this as a hint from you Choprzrul and I have taken the liberty of changing the home page of the site I have been working on for you and Ajax22 and putting the original post on this thread with a link following it to the gunpal.net link that was setup to accept donations. If you want to pass out the URL, feel free. I will leave it there till we know that Sheriff Palmer has sufficient funding.

Blacky
02-09-2010, 10:38 AM
Does anyone have any suggestions for training in OC?

BTW everyone making "TAG" posts, you can easily subscribe to a thread in the Thread Tools drop down box ;)

Gray Peterson
02-09-2010, 11:05 AM
Donation Sent via snail mail to the office addressed to Palmer, incuding a letter of thanks for his over and beyond service to our country.

If you snail mail I suggest posting an amount so that we can tally total donations, or if you don't feel comfortable posting the total amount, PM me or artherd.

M4John
02-09-2010, 11:05 AM
Donation sent along with a letter of thanks for service above and beyond the call of duty, via postal service ( hope it gets there )

M4John
02-09-2010, 11:06 AM
If you snail mail I suggest posting an amount so that we can tally total donations, or if you don't feel comfortable posting the total amount, PM me or artherd.

$100.00
we're 0.833333% closer!

M4John
02-09-2010, 11:14 AM
If you snail mail I suggest posting an amount so that we can tally total donations, or if you don't feel comfortable posting the total amount, PM me or artherd.

What are we up to as far as a tally? Are we getting close?

kpwill
02-09-2010, 11:16 AM
sent $20 via gunpal.

ShootinMedic
02-09-2010, 11:30 AM
$20 sent via gunpal

Tenchi
02-09-2010, 11:52 AM
donating! when and where will this take place?

joefrank64k
02-09-2010, 12:42 PM
50.00 sent...

wildhawker
02-09-2010, 1:24 PM
Just spoke with the Sheriff; things are progressing well and he is working closely with his county counsel to ensure the program complies with all local and state law. He mentioned that support from CA, WA and ID has been overwhelming and his phone has been ringing off the hook with calls of support, which he greatly appreciates. I expect that either Ben, Gray or myself will be hearing further updates over the coming days and will keep you apprised.

-Brandon

7x57
02-09-2010, 1:29 PM
Just spoke with the Sheriff; things are progressing well and he is working closely with his county counsel to ensure the program complies with all local and state law. He mentioned that support from CA, WA and ID has been overwhelming and his phone has been ringing off the hook with calls of support, which he greatly appreciates. I expect that either Ben, Gray or myself will be hearing further updates over the coming days and will keep you apprised.


Be sure to find out whether the handgun certificate satisfies the training requirement.

7x57

D-Man
02-09-2010, 1:29 PM
Does anyone have any suggestions for training in OC?

BTW everyone making "TAG" posts, you can easily subscribe to a thread in the Thread Tools drop down box ;)

Come on up the 57 to San Dimas and you can get the training you want / need. PM me or use the website for more details.

wildhawker
02-09-2010, 1:34 PM
Be sure to find out whether the handgun certificate satisfies the training requirement.

7x57

We did discuss this, and currently we feel that HSC does in fact satisfy the requirements under Oregon law. When it's confirmed we'll post notice, but in the interim I think it's safe to assume a copy of the HSC will suffice.

sfgunshooter
02-09-2010, 1:34 PM
Cool that he's doing this, especially since I have family in Grant County.

Donated via Gunpal.

7x57
02-09-2010, 1:36 PM
I just want to add that we do have a lot of instructors on the board. If training becomes a bottleneck for the existing facillities we could probably set up some special classes for this.

ETA: if the HSC satisfies the requirement, then every gun shop in California offers the required training. :D

7x57

MR2Chuck
02-09-2010, 1:38 PM
Sent some $$ today. Happy to see movement on any front.

putput
02-09-2010, 1:40 PM
$50 sent. Come on HSC! Ah ha hahahahaahaaa....:D

n2k
02-09-2010, 1:59 PM
Does anyone know how a COE would apply to this requirement?

johnny_22
02-09-2010, 2:23 PM
Didn't have time in October when I was taking a class at ThunderRanch. This is so convenient.

$200 via Gunpal.

Thank you!

johnny_22
02-09-2010, 2:25 PM
We did discuss this, and currently we feel that HSC does in fact satisfy the requirements under Oregon law. When it's confirmed we'll post notice, but in the interim I think it's safe to assume a copy of the HSC will suffice.

So, not like Florida's minimum NRA "Basic Pistol" requirement?

loutar
02-09-2010, 2:44 PM
I do not see how this whole CCW in Oregon scheme benefits Californians at all. It sounds like a scam to get money for an Oregon County sheriff that he cannot get any other way.
Oregon CCWs are not recognized in California.
A county mounty granting a CCW to a non-resident sounds illegal on the surface.

Sgt Raven
02-09-2010, 2:45 PM
A couple more things to work out before hand is do we need to bring a 'passport' photo or will they have a way to take your picture and what method of payment?

wildhawker
02-09-2010, 2:48 PM
A couple more things to work out before hand is do we need to bring a 'passport' photo or will they have a way to take your picture and what method of payment?

I believe they have to take digital photos for their system. I also am under the impression that they are working on a POS system for CC payments on site.

Sgt Raven
02-09-2010, 2:50 PM
I do not see how this whole CCW in Oregon scheme benefits Californians at all. It sounds like a scam to get money for an Oregon County sheriff that he cannot get any other way.
Oregon CCWs are not recognized in California.
A county mounty granting a CCW to a non-resident sounds illegal on the surface.

Oregon state law allows a Sheriff to issue to residents of bordering states and if you had read the whole thread there are other reasons to have an OR CCW. If you're going to call someone's actions illegal, you better be able to back up those comments!

D-Man
02-09-2010, 3:04 PM
Oregon takes their own fingerprints and photos as part of their process.

ILVSMOG
02-09-2010, 3:43 PM
I just sent $25 via Gunpal. Keep us posted on the when/where.

Thanks!!

Gray Peterson
02-09-2010, 3:48 PM
I do not see how this whole CCW in Oregon scheme benefits Californians at all.

You have lots of gun enthusiast Californians who carry outside of the State of California whenever they travel, and have a bunch of out of state licenses from Utah, Florida, Arizona, Nevada, etc. Plus there are 40K CCW holders in California as well who may want the opportunity to carry in the state north of California.

Oregon CCWs are not recognized in California.

Same answer as above, and did anyone here insinuate in ANY WAY that Oregon CCW's are recognized by the State of California? No. Lots of questions about whether or not it does, but all of the answers given is NO, NO, and NO.

It sounds like a scam to get money for an Oregon County sheriff that he cannot get any other way. A county mounty granting a CCW to a non-resident sounds illegal on the surface.

Oregon Revised Statute 166.291(8):

(8) The county sheriff may waive the residency requirement in subsection (1)(c) of this section for a resident of a contiguous state who has a compelling business interest or other legitimate demonstrated need.

You basically insinuated that all four of us are committing a scam or a fraud on gun owners, with no cause whatsoever.

I have an Oregon CHL issued by Washington County (and I will soon be a Grant County CHL holder myself and dump my Washington County license), even though I am a resident of the State of Washington.

I suggest you publicly apologize to Sheriff Palmer, Kevin Starrett at Oregon Firearms Federation, Ben Cannon here at Calguns, and ME as I was the one who asked for donations on his behalf here in the first place.

BIGCHRIS
02-09-2010, 3:52 PM
I do not see how this whole CCW in Oregon scheme benefits Californians at all. It sounds like a scam to get money for an Oregon County sheriff that he cannot get any other way.
Oregon CCWs are not recognized in California.
A county mounty granting a CCW to a non-resident sounds illegal on the surface.

Nice 1st post, way to be supportive of what the people on believe in....
I wish a mod would :ban: him for such a dumb@** unjust trolling comment.

M4John
02-09-2010, 3:52 PM
Oregon Revised Statute 166.291(8):

(8) The county sheriff may waive the residency requirement in subsection (1)(c) of this section for a resident of a contiguous state who has a compelling business interest or other legitimate demonstrated need.

I suggest you publicly apologize to Sheriff Palmer, Kevin Starrett at Oregon Firearms Federation, Ben Cannon here at Calguns, and ME as I was the one who asked for donations on his behalf here in the first place.

I have an Oregon CHL issued by Washington County (and I will soon be a Grant County CHL holder myself and dump my Washington County license), even though I am a resident of the State of Washington.

You basically insinuated that all three of us are committing a scam or a fraud on gun owners, with no cause whatsoever.

GRAY, you beat me to it....... Nice rope em up job!

Wildeman_13
02-09-2010, 3:59 PM
To clarify, for those who carry a CCW from another state, (AZ-non resident in my case) we have to provide the certificate issued from the CCW class or a similar certificate from a training class to qualify? The CCW by itself is not enough? Is this correct?

Gray Peterson
02-09-2010, 4:00 PM
To clarify, for those who carry a CCW from another state, (AZ-non resident in my case) we have to provide the certificate issued from the CCW class or a similar certificate from a training class to qualify? The CCW by itself is not enough? Is this correct?

Correct. Look at the wording of the training certificate. There is only one CHL by itself that qualifies, and that's previously having an Oregon license.

(F) Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state, unless the license has been revoked; or

If you have an Oregon License, or have an expired oregon CHL which has not been revoked (this can be verified in LEDS), this would qualify.

gkanzer
02-09-2010, 4:00 PM
How long is the permit good for? If yearly, would he have to come back to CA every year to reissue a permit?

When is the Costa Mesa show, my wife is having surgery the week of the Cow Palace Show.

zum
02-09-2010, 4:02 PM
I do not see how this whole CCW in Oregon scheme benefits Californians at all. It sounds like a scam to get money for an Oregon County sheriff that he cannot get any other way.
Oregon CCWs are not recognized in California.
A county mounty granting a CCW to a non-resident sounds illegal on the surface.

:cool: welcome to calguns

now go back, make another name and start over

Gray Peterson
02-09-2010, 4:14 PM
How long is the permit good for? If yearly, would he have to come back to CA every year to reissue a permit?

When is the Costa Mesa show, my wife is having surgery the week of the Cow Palace Show.

4 years. Remember that this is based on Palmer's schedule, as he can't be out of state every weekend, and he wants to also go to Nevada, Washington, and Idaho too. It is his intention to go to at least one SoCal show from our conversation. Wildhawker (Brandon) is working on logistics of this, and making sure that we can make this happen and do our best to make sure no major region of the state is left out.

M4John
02-09-2010, 4:16 PM
How long is the permit good for? If yearly, would he have to come back to CA every year to reissue a permit?

When is the Costa Mesa show, my wife is having surgery the week of the Cow Palace Show.

GKANZER

for all your gun show needs....
http://www.crossroadsgunshows.com/gunsched.htm

wildhawker
02-09-2010, 4:23 PM
GKANZER

for all your gun show needs....
http://www.crossroadsgunshows.com/gunsched.htm

Those are some, but not all, of the shows we cover. I know the Sheriff has expressed a sincere desire to reach some smaller shows in other parts of the state so as to give all CA residents the best possible opportunity to acquire a permit to carry a concealed handgun in OR.

Glock22Fan
02-09-2010, 4:28 PM
To be fair, it's not that hard to get a ccw in most of the state.

If you are talking by population density, you are totally wrong. If you are talking by the acre, you are a little better, but not much.

It varies from pretty hard to impossible for residents in urban areas to get CCW's.

M4John
02-09-2010, 4:50 PM
Those are some, but not all, of the shows we cover. I know the Sheriff has expressed a sincere desire to reach some smaller shows in other parts of the state so as to give all CA residents the best possible opportunity to acquire a permit to carry a concealed handgun in OR.

Sorry about that, you are correct in that fact, those are not the only gun show.... my bad... I was only helping withhim with his original question about "when is the show in Costa Mesa"...
In fact I'd be all for more in my area! ( south orange county)

Ajcrash
02-09-2010, 4:59 PM
This is fantastic news, particularly if the HSC meets the Oregon training requirement. That in itself would make the process so much easier for CA residents.

On another note; I do have a legitimate 2A related legal question that I need answered. Could someone point me in the right direction?

TIA

wildhawker
02-09-2010, 4:59 PM
Sorry about that, you are correct in that fact, those are not the only gun show.... my bad... I was only helping withhim with his original question about "when is the show in Costa Mesa"...
In fact I'd be all for more in my area! ( south orange county)

No apology necessary, just trying to be further informative.

-Brandon

RP1911
02-09-2010, 6:58 PM
How much has been raised so far? please provide updates on total collected as often as possible so we know how much is needed to reach the goal of $12K.

I'm in with $s at some point. Just have to sell a couple of items first.

Gray Peterson
02-09-2010, 7:11 PM
How much has been raised so far? please provide updates on total collected as often as possible so we know how much is needed to reach the goal of $12K.

I'm in with $s at some point. Just have to sell a couple of items first.

$1000 was sent by OFF's Educational Foundation. When I talked to Sheriff Palmer on Monday morning he received about $200 mailed to him. This was before I posted this thread and then artherd started rolling out the CalGuns Network news release.

As of 3:30PM this afternoon (4 hours ago), $1900 has been raised via donations through GunPal. Someone here is snail mailing $100 to Sheriff Palmer this week as posted here.

We're up to around $3.2K out of 12K needed. Keep it up, folks.

7x57
02-09-2010, 7:12 PM
Those are some, but not all, of the shows we cover. I know the Sheriff has expressed a sincere desire to reach some smaller shows in other parts of the state so as to give all CA residents the best possible opportunity to acquire a permit to carry a concealed handgun in OR.

Glendale is smaller, and also the only show left in LA county AFAIK. If he wants to make sure he reaches as many oppressed subjects of the anti-gun fortresses as possible....

Our MC runs a table there and there has never been a Calguns table--is there any reason an MC could not or should not help out? If not, I or someone could suggest it.

7x57

Cokebottle
02-09-2010, 7:36 PM
well played sir....but seriously, if our "requirements" are the same or more than other states, why don't we have reciprocity with them? is it just a f*ck CA thing?
California CCW is accepted by AZ, ID, IN, KY, MI, MO, MT, NE, OK, SD, TN, TX, UT, in addition to AK & VT, who do not require an issued permit for anyone to carry.

Of the 13 that require a permit, only 10 accept permits issued by any state, so there's 3 that accept permits from CA but not from at least one other state.

As far as it being a f*ck California thing... I don't blame them.
California honors no other states' permits, along with 15 other states... I don't blame the other states for "blacklisting" California.
Yes, it sucks that we are punished for the policies of our state "leaders", but there is no other way to get enough people in this state to push for a change in the laws.

pitchbaby
02-09-2010, 7:55 PM
Glendale is smaller, and also the only show left in LA county AFAIK. If he wants to make sure he reaches as many oppressed subjects of the anti-gun fortresses as possible....

Our MC runs a table there and there has never been a Calguns table--is there any reason an MC could not or should not help out? If not, I or someone could suggest it.

7x57

I am not trying to knock you.... but I went to Highschool in Glendale back in the 80's-90's..... I never would have thought to call it small then... and I don't imagine it got any smaller..... LOL!

Having said that, I would think that since it is a fledgling gun show in a prominent area, it would be a dead ringer to get Sheriff Palmer there.... but that's just my 2 cents.

rwballca
02-09-2010, 8:54 PM
Twin Cities Rod & Gun Club in Yuba City has a CCW class that is approved for CA CCW. It's only 38 miles north of Natomas area of Sacto. Sutter and Yuba Counties are basically "shall-issue". Contact: yubasutterccw@yahoo.com
The local community college in Marysville also has a CCW class, offered about 4 times a year.

ricochet
02-09-2010, 9:02 PM
I've read & re-read all the pages of this thread and I feel like I'm missing something. I have no problem putting in the $ for something I believe in but I want to understand where the benefit is. Besides being able to defend myself (which I truly believe in), where is the benefit ?

Q1) There's a banner on this site that allows you to get a CCW from UT for $150. After I donote a couple hunner, pay the $65 and costs associated w/the training requirement; I've spent way more than that. I've seen CCW permit classes at the cow show too. What makes the OR permit more advantageous ?

Q2) Why not get one after nationwide reciprocity becomes a reality vs. getting it now and renewing in 4 years ?

Q3) It seems like people are saying there's a benefit to getting an OR CCW even if you rarely travel to OR or any of the OR CCW reciprocity states. What is/are the benifit(s) ?

Q4) As I understand it, the steps/costs are:
- Livescan donation
- $65 at cow show for CCW fee; what else do I need to bring (passport, DL, birth cert?)
- another cost for a training document; maybe $25 for HSC (that card that used to be called Basic Firearms Safety Certificate used to buy a handgun?)
- assuming I pass background, I mail training document and what to Sheriff Palmer
- wait for permit to be mailed to me

Q5) CCW=Concealed Carry Weapons permit; what is CHL ?

This all sounds like a good deal and I appreciate the Sheriff's goal. I just want to understand what it's about and what the details are before I jump in.

Not trying to be difficult, just looking for the facts. I think I've done my homework (most of?) reading this entire thread repeatedly; no flame please.

guns_and_labs
02-09-2010, 9:14 PM
I've read & re-read all the pages of this thread and I feel like I'm missing something. I have no problem putting in the $ for something I believe in but I want to understand where the benefit is. Besides being able to defend myself (which I truly believe in), where is the benefit ?

Q1) There's a banner on this site that allows you to get a CCW from UT for $150. After I donote a couple hunner, pay the $65 and costs associated w/the training requirement; I've spent way more than that. I've seen CCW permit classes at the cow show too. What makes the OR permit more advantageous ?

Q2) Why not get one after nationwide reciprocity becomes a reality vs. getting it now and renewing in 4 years ?

Q3) It seems like people are saying there's a benefit to getting an OR CCW even if you rarely travel to OR or any of the OR CCW reciprocity states. What is/are the benifit(s) ?

Q4) As I understand it, the steps/costs are:
- Livescan donation
- $65 at cow show for CCW fee; what else do I need to bring (passport, DL, birth cert?)
- another cost for a training document; maybe $25 for HSC (that card that used to be called Basic Firearms Safety Certificate used to buy a handgun?)
- assuming I pass background, I mail training document and what to Sheriff Palmer
- wait for permit to be mailed to me

Q5) CCW=Concealed Carry Weapons permit; what is CHL ?

This all sounds like a good deal and I appreciate the Sheriff's goal. I just want to understand what it's about and what the details are before I jump in.

Not trying to be difficult, just looking for the facts. I think I've done my homework (most of?) reading this entire thread repeatedly; no flame please.

My own take:

1. Not more advantageous, just different. And the UT CCW doesn't give you rights in OR.
2. Sure, if you want to wait, and you think it's sure to happen.
3. If you don't go to OR, the benefit is a political one. You have to judge if it's worth it.
4. Still waiting for the information myself.
5. Concealed Handgun License.

Tom

Cokebottle
02-09-2010, 9:23 PM
Q1) There's a banner on this site that allows you to get a CCW from UT for $150. After I donote a couple hunner, pay the $65 and costs associated w/the training requirement; I've spent way more than that. I've seen CCW permit classes at the cow show too. What makes the OR permit more advantageous ?
If you have a need for an Oregon permit, this saves you the time taken out of one of your trips to Oregon to take the class and apply in person.

If you are a "CCW collector"... it's another one for the collection.

I will be getting the Utah permit soon.
I have family in Florida, so I could justify getting the Florida permit, which would also give me Washington.
I travel to AZ, NV, and UT somewhat regularly... so adding the Nevada permit is also justifiable.
Adding the Oregon permit would allow legal carry in all but a very few states, and all of the western states except for Colorado.... but I haven't been to Oregon in over 10 years and have no imminent plans for a return.
Q2) Why not get one after nationwide reciprocity becomes a reality vs. getting it now and renewing in 4 years ?
The CA permit will still be required for that... and no telling how long it will take to get that.
Current wait times are as long as 8 months in some counties. It's not going to get any better if/when CA becomes shall-issue.
And again, we could be looking at as long as 12-18 months before the anti's appeals are exhausted.

Also, if incorporation creates nationwide shall-issue and 49-state reciprocity, there is a very real possibility that non-resident permits may be eliminated, since they would be effectively obsolete.
With CA being shall-issue, and 49 state recip, it could be viewed that someone not having a CA permit, but seeking a Utah permit may have something in their background that prevents them from seeking a CA permit that may not be caught by another state.
Q3) It seems like people are saying there's a benefit to getting an OR CCW even if you rarely travel to OR or any of the OR CCW reciprocity states. What is/are the benifit(s) ?
If you don't travel to OR, there is no personal benefit, other than showing support for a LEO who supports the 2A.

Something about that whole "hang together or hang separately" thing ;)
Q5) CCW=Concealed Carry Weapons permit; what is CHL ?
Concealed Handgun License.
Different states have different statutes. Some issue CCW, which allows concealed carry of any weapon.
Some do not allow concealed carry of knives over "x" inches, or may not allow concealed carry of knives at all.
A state may issue a CHL, but still prohibit the concealed carry of a knife, shotgun, or rifle.

wildhawker
02-09-2010, 9:36 PM
Glendale is smaller, and also the only show left in LA county AFAIK. If he wants to make sure he reaches as many oppressed subjects of the anti-gun fortresses as possible....

Our MC runs a table there and there has never been a Calguns table--is there any reason an MC could not or should not help out? If not, I or someone could suggest it.

7x57

I think we *might* have a booth at one of the Glendale shows, although I'm not sure what his plans are for show distribution. Whether we do or not I have no issues with coordinating with NRA for any/all of these. If you'd like to touch base with HPP or Joel, please feel free to, or I can do it once we have a bit more info. Ping me and let me know.

ricochet
02-09-2010, 10:23 PM
Thanks folks (and thanks for not lighting a flame under my backside :-) I don't see a personal benefit for myself but I'll GP some bucks to the Sheriff to support his efforts in doing the right thing.

If somebody chimes in w/a compelling reason, I'll jump in w/two feet (instead of 3 toes :-)

joe_sun
02-09-2010, 11:08 PM
Couple of questions

I'm guessing a PC 832 class I took back in 1997 would qualify? I still have the certificate.

Also, once the permit expires in 4 years how do you re-up if the Sheriff isn't around anymore? Is it now shall issue going forward? Do you just send in a renewal like your drivers license?

ontargetrange
02-09-2010, 11:29 PM
I donated for this cause!!!

Gray Peterson
02-10-2010, 12:23 AM
Couple of questions

I'm guessing a PC 832 class I took back in 1997 would qualify? I still have the certificate.

Can someone post a redacted copy?

Also, once the permit expires in 4 years how do you re-up if the Sheriff isn't around anymore? Is it now shall issue going forward? Do you just send in a renewal like your drivers license?

The Sheriff will be shall-issue going forward. Can't predict who will be sheriff in 4 years or 8. It's all elected positions, though bringing in money to the sheriff's office treasury where it won't need to be supported as much from the county treasury is always a good thing.

Post-Sykes win, given the status of Oregon's license as a "super carry license" in many ways, pulling a "Sheriff Hutchens" and refusing to renew licenses isn't going to fly. Just from seeing what Gene has generally stated on the boards, CalGuns Foundation and CalGuns in general has a strong interest in it's members be able to carry in all 50 states. If a future sheriff in Grant County starts acting funny and refusing to renew, I'm sure CGF would be perfectly willing to defend California gun owners interest in carrying in Oregon through legal work.

Also, between 2011 and 2013, there will likely be some changes to Oregon law to fix some of the issues, such as renewal by mail and possibly just issuing by mail entirely and accepting fingerprint cards. It's just that these might not occur until the next renewal time. For now, however, helping a sheriff who's willing to step forward and actually come to California to have people apply is a coup by itself, as some counties actually refuse to even consider non-resident applications under any circumstances.

dantodd
02-10-2010, 12:26 AM
I would suspect that CA will be Shall Issue within 4 years.

Gray Peterson
02-10-2010, 12:45 AM
I would suspect that CA will be Shall Issue within 4 years.

Yep, I agree with this too.

bigcalidave
02-10-2010, 12:58 AM
What the hell is with all the DOUBT in this thread!!!

We have a GREAT SHERIFF who wants to go all around our state and basically GIVE AWAY CCW licenses for Oregon. If you go to Oregon or not, get the license! This is a big statement, and it will really help people understand that there really is hope. At the same time, it looks like Sheriff Palmer will be teaming up with our CGF booths at these shows. That will only bring more traffic to our booths, which lets us explain the work CGF is doing to get shall issue CCW in CA, and gets us more donations! Why do people think this is some sort of scam!

Damn it is frustrating when we have something really good here, and people just don't trust it or get it. Please donate at least a little to help this Sheriff out. If you don't understand how it helps us here, just believe that it does.

sniperdude
02-10-2010, 6:19 AM
Donated some $$ :)

SavageSam
02-10-2010, 6:44 AM
I hope this goes through.

joe_sun
02-10-2010, 7:17 AM
Here's a copy of my PC 832
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn109/calgunpics/Jon_PC832JPG-1-1.jpg

ETA I just put a few bucks to the cause.

Also I have a POST Level 2 cert and a California Hunter Safety card so I'm guessing any of these three would cover it.

D-Man
02-10-2010, 7:50 AM
The good news is that if you have taken and have the certificate from your UT CCW class, that is good enough for you to get a CCW in VA, FL, and OR for the training requirement. Plus, I know a few of the other instructors on this board (Jim Amentler is one) and the class is well worth it. It isn't just to get the CCW, but to teach mindset and a number of other factors that you probably had not considered.

Secondly, this goes to help support a Sheriff who is willing to come here, instead of you having to make a separate trip to Oregon to get their CCW. I had to travel to Klamath Falls, and will have to go back up there in a couple of years to renew mine. It sounds like this Sheriff (if he is still in office) will be coming back down here again, which makes your renewal even easier. This helps all of us in the long run, especially with the CGF backing. That is why I jumped in with both feet to volunteer to help with the training requirement for those that are interested.

From what has been stated, it sounds like the good Sheriff is accepting an HSC, that is great. But why not be able to cover a lot of other states with one class? No, this is not meant to be a shameless plug for my training, but to help open the eyes of people on here. This is a really good thing going on here!

Charlie50
02-10-2010, 7:52 AM
Come on guys pony up what you can for a good cause... I did, so you have to! Lets face if you don't put money where your mouth is its just cheap talk.

7x57
02-10-2010, 10:45 AM
A minor point just occurred to me: if the HSC satisfies the Oregon training requirement, then a hunter's safety class probably would. That might help a few people who can lay hands on one easier than something else. My only question would be whether Oregon would regard it as covering "handgun safety" specifically, and whether the instructors have the right credentials (I just don't recall the rules for CA hunter's education instructors).

7x57

racerx944
02-10-2010, 10:49 AM
I am broke going through divorce bordering bankruptcy from legal expenses but money sent. One of the things she tried to use against me is that I own guns where she argues that by itself was "intimidating" even though I owned them long before I met her. We need more gun exposure to the general population. Just the mere mention of owning guns may put me at a disadvantage depending on the judge or custody evaluator according to my attorney even when I lock everything in a DOJ approved fireproof safe.

If for nothing else, make it a political statement.

D-Man
02-10-2010, 10:57 AM
A minor point just occurred to me: if the HSC satisfies the Oregon training requirement, then a hunter's safety class probably would. That might help a few people who can lay hands on one easier than something else. My only question would be whether Oregon would regard it as covering "handgun safety" specifically, and whether the instructors have the right credentials (I just don't recall the rules for CA hunter's education instructors).

7x57

It says a hunter's ed card from Oregon or a similar agency in another state. So that answer would be a "yes" for Oregon.

7x57
02-10-2010, 11:14 AM
It says a hunter's ed card from Oregon or a similar agency in another state. So that answer would be a "yes" for Oregon.

Ah, I bet I read that and then forgot it. Even better. So we just need to make sure people know that is another option. Unfortunately, a lot of people will have just showed last year's license for so long they won't be able to find their class cert. I doubt that will work, but if it does we also need to make sure that information goes out.

7x57

jnojr
02-10-2010, 11:19 AM
I'm not clear on what on Oregon permit would do for me.

If I really wanted an out-of-state non-resident permit, I'd get a Utah CCW.

Besides wanting to support a pro-2A Sheriff... why all the hoopla? What difference does this make in anyone's lives?

7x57
02-10-2010, 11:21 AM
Besides wanting to support a pro-2A Sheriff... why all the hoopla? What difference does this make in anyone's lives?

I don't normally do the "RTFM" sort of posts, but this is the umpteenth time this has been asked. If you have read the thread and it hasn't already been answered to your satisfaction, I don't think it can be. If you haven't, check previous posts and all will be revealed.

7x57

evollep3
02-10-2010, 12:48 PM
stupid question Im still confused on the whole CCW thing but what is the point of OR CCW when we cant carry in CA?

7x57
02-10-2010, 12:50 PM
:banghead:

7x57

MasterYong
02-10-2010, 12:58 PM
stupid question Im still confused on the whole CCW thing but what is the point of OR CCW when we cant carry in CA?

I think it's mostly to benefit those that go to OR on any kind of regular basis, or any state in which the OR permit holds reciprocity.

I myself don't understand how this benefits the ability to carry in CA, but being able to carry outside CA is nice.

Most of my family live in Oregon, so I can personally see the benefit since I visit them so much.

Rem222
02-10-2010, 1:04 PM
I have family in Corvallis OR and in the State of Washington. I drive though Oregon several times a year. I already have a OR CCW but this would sure make it easier for anyone in the future who wants to apply for one.

D-Man
02-10-2010, 2:34 PM
:banghead:

7x57

+1 couldn't agree more.

Gray Peterson
02-10-2010, 3:39 PM
I'm not clear on what on Oregon permit would do for me.

If I really wanted an out-of-state non-resident permit, I'd get a Utah CCW.

Besides wanting to support a pro-2A Sheriff... why all the hoopla? What difference does this make in anyone's lives?

Think of the public relations aspects of this. In states like Illinois, Maryland, New Jersey, and so on, it's a great argument. "The States of Florida, Utah, and Pennsylvania trust me to carry for my personal protection, but my sheriff/state will not". It's about further shaming the state's sheriffs with an out of state sheriff who's willing to come to you. This entire thing is completely unprecedent.

stupid question Im still confused on the whole CCW thing but what is the point of OR CCW when we cant carry in CA?

This is a bit of a categorical falsehood, but easy to state when you live in a "red issue" county. First, California is not the state of Illinois, which has a complete ban on all carry. There are about 35-40K CCW holders in California, mostly issued in "green counties". You can see the county map here (http://www.calccw.com/Forums/county-faq/7158-county-map-california-ccw-issuance.html). Got a lot folk who live in the Northern Counties who want it, those in SoCal who have it, and those that permit collect.

Untamed1972
02-10-2010, 3:46 PM
Those are some, but not all, of the shows we cover. I know the Sheriff has expressed a sincere desire to reach some smaller shows in other parts of the state so as to give all CA residents the best possible opportunity to acquire a permit to carry a concealed handgun in OR.


although collecting CCWs would be nice, since it really would only add Oregon to the list of states the UT permit is good for. I can't see traveling all the way to the bay area to get a permit for one state I haven't been to in 30yrs.

Because CA is geographically a very LONG state from top to bottom I'd think he'd need to plan on hitting at least 3 CA shows to make it feasible for many people. Living in SoCal it would be closer for me to meet him at a show in Vegas (a 5hr drive to city I'd much rather visit anyway) then to drive 10hrs to the bay area.

Not to mention if arranged properly, perhaps some socal visitors could arrange to take a NV non-resident class while they are there and get their NV permits at the same time, then they'd pretty much cover most of the states covered between the 3 permits.

If The Sheriff wanted to commit to a Vegas show date and we could arrange an NV class at the same time I bet some SoCal folks would be all over it, me included!

D-Man
02-10-2010, 4:48 PM
although collecting CCWs would be nice, since it really would only add Oregon to the list of states the UT permit is good for. I can't see traveling all the way to the bay area to get a permit for one state I haven't been to in 30yrs.

Because CA is geographically a very LONG state from top to bottom I'd think he'd need to plan on hitting at least 3 CA shows to make it feasible for many people. Living in SoCal it would be closer for me to meet him at a show in Vegas (a 5hr drive to city I'd much rather visit anyway) then to drive 10hrs to the bay area.

Not to mention if arranged property, perhaps some socal visitors could arrange to take a NV non-resident class while they are there and get their NV permits at the same time, then they'd pretty much cover most of the states covered between the 3 permits.

If The Sheriff wanted to commit to a Vegas show date and we could arrange an NV class at the same time I bet some SoCal folks would be all over it, me included!

A good friend of mine is a Nevada CCW Instructor in Vegas. I am sure he would be willing to help out in this regard. Don't forget Nevada has a live fire requirement for all the weapons you want listed on your CCW permit.

Untamed1972
02-10-2010, 4:59 PM
A good friend of mine is a Nevada CCW Instructor in Vegas. I am sure he would be willing to help out in this regard. Don't forget Nevada has a live fire requirement for all the weapons you want listed on your CCW permit.


That would be cool if we could arrange a CalGunners NV CCW class.

I was aware of the live fire requirement. Do you know what the actual course of fire is the test consists of?

7x57
02-10-2010, 5:13 PM
Gray, my guess is the repeated "I don't understand, how does this help me" posts are from people who read the first few posts and then respond without reading through the whole thread. Maybe it would be useful if you edited the thread started with a link to one of the explanatory posts so we can get some people up to speed without reading over two hundred posts?

Just a thought.

7x57

D-Man
02-10-2010, 5:33 PM
That would be cool if we could arrange a CalGunners NV CCW class.

I was aware of the live fire requirement. Do you know what the actual course of fire is the test consists of?

30 rounds per weapon. Distance is 3 yards and 7 yards. I forget how many rounds at each distance. There is no time limit. I gave my buddy a heads up and he is all for it. We just need to know the class size in advance so that we can make sure that we can fit everyone that would go. It should also be done on a weekday so you can also get over to LVMPD and get your fingerprinting / photo done for your Nevada permit.

A lot of people do this on a Friday or Monday just meet this requirement. Or do the class on the weekend and you will need to be back on a weekday to do the fingerprinting and photograph. Also you will need to pay the money to Metro with either a money order or cashier's check. No credit card or cash on the payment. The current cost is $100.25 as posted on the LVMPD website.

http://www.lvmpd.com/permits/firearms_concealed.html

I don't know what the travel arrangements are for the OR Sheriff, but he did say he wanted to get to Nevada as well. Seems like a good fit to me, but I am not the one in charge here :)

7x57
02-10-2010, 5:38 PM
I don't know what the travel arrangements are for the OR Sheriff, but he did say he wanted to get to Nevada as well. Seems like a good fit to me, but I am not the one in charge here :)

I guess that would be Reno and LV then. The good old boys in the rest of the state might make him welcome, but if he wants to find a county with more than a couple thousand of them.... :rolleyes:

7x57, who gets to make jokes about huge, rural states

ricochet
02-10-2010, 5:52 PM
Thanks for map reference. I guess this is subjective. How are the colors determined ?

If I can get an out of state non resident CCW, what prevents me from going to a neighboring county (vs state) to get a CA CCW ?

While I'm still looking for the light bulb of explanations (and it looks like others are too), I GP'ed $ to the good Sheriff just because he's doing the right thing (and ending up w/a $12K LiveScan to boot :-)

ric

Think of the public relations aspects of this. In states like Illinois, Maryland, New Jersey, and so on, it's a great argument. "The States of Florida, Utah, and Pennsylvania trust me to carry for my personal protection, but my sheriff/state will not". It's about further shaming the state's sheriffs with an out of state sheriff who's willing to come to you. This entire thing is completely unprecedent.



This is a bit of a categorical falsehood, but easy to state when you live in a "red issue" county. First, California is not the state of Illinois, which has a complete ban on all carry. There are about 35-40K CCW holders in California, mostly issued in "green counties". You can see the county map here (http://www.calccw.com/Forums/county-faq/7158-county-map-california-ccw-issuance.html). Got a lot folk who live in the Northern Counties who want it, those in SoCal who have it, and those that permit collect.

ricochet
02-10-2010, 5:58 PM
Interesting. Is there a gun crimes overlay to go w/this to show (violent) gun crimes by county in relation to the "permissable" issuance of CCWs ?

ric
There are about 35-40K CCW holders in California, mostly issued in "green counties". You can see the county map here (http://www.calccw.com/Forums/county-faq/7158-county-map-california-ccw-issuance.html).

Sgt Raven
02-10-2010, 6:00 PM
I guess that would be Reno and LV then. The good old boys in the rest of the state might make him welcome, but if he wants to find a county with more than a couple thousand of them.... :rolleyes:

7x57, who gets to make jokes about huge, rural states

The next Big Reno Show is April 16-18, 2010.

Sgt Raven
02-10-2010, 6:02 PM
Thanks for map reference. I guess this is subjective. How are the colors determined ?

If I can get an out of state non resident CCW, what prevents me from going to a neighboring county (vs state) to get a CA CCW ?

While I'm still looking for the light bulb of explanations (and it looks like others are too), I GP'ed $ to the good Sheriff just because he's doing the right thing (and ending up w/a $12K LiveScan to boot :-)

ric

California State penal code is all.

7x57
02-10-2010, 6:15 PM
If I can get an out of state non resident CCW, what prevents me from going to a neighboring county (vs state) to get a CA CCW ?


CA Law. The Oregon statute says specifically that Oregon sheriffs MAY issue to residents of contiguous states, so our hero is doing just that. The CA statute says that CA sheriffs may NOT issue to non-residents of their county. It says that because there was a case of a CA sheriff doing something like that under the original, looser CA rules. Once the legislature got wind of the fact and realized that the entire state could end up as permissive as the most permissive sheriff, they "fixed" that horrible, terrible problem of law-abiding citizens protecting themselves.

Basically, there is really no reason the system in any state has to resemble that in any other state. No 2A restriction on what they do, no federal reciprocity--as long as the law isn't so flagrantly prejudicial that it violates the 14th even under the loosest scrutiny (I imagine that "no issue to left-handed Asian mimes" would not fly, unless perhaps word gets out that left-handed Asian mimes vote conservatively :rolleyes:), the states have been able to do anything they please.

IOW--don't assume that the rules for any state are predictive of the rules for any other state.

7x57

Untamed1972
02-10-2010, 6:25 PM
30 rounds per weapon. Distance is 3 yards and 7 yards. I forget how many rounds at each distance. There is no time limit. I gave my buddy a heads up and he is all for it. We just need to know the class size in advance so that we can make sure that we can fit everyone that would go. It should also be done on a weekday so you can also get over to LVMPD and get your fingerprinting / photo done for your Nevada permit.

A lot of people do this on a Friday or Monday just meet this requirement. Or do the class on the weekend and you will need to be back on a weekday to do the fingerprinting and photograph. Also you will need to pay the money to Metro with either a money order or cashier's check. No credit card or cash on the payment. The current cost is $100.25 as posted on the LVMPD website.

http://www.lvmpd.com/permits/firearms_concealed.html

I don't know what the travel arrangements are for the OR Sheriff, but he did say he wanted to get to Nevada as well. Seems like a good fit to me, but I am not the one in charge here :)

I could dig it......drive up Thurs nite. Do class on Friday, then hang in vegas for the weekend for the gun show and to meet the OR sheriff on Sat.

Can the class/live fire be done in one day such that you could get to LVMPD to do your prints and photo by the end of the day on a friday?

74man
02-10-2010, 6:51 PM
I have pasted the Oregon requirement from previous post but have a question concerning "E" subsection.
Here is the Oregon Revised Statutes on this issue:

(f) Demonstrates competence with a handgun by any one of the following:
(A) Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the State Department of Fish and Wildlife or a similar agency of another state if handgun safety was a component of the course;
(B) Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course if handgun safety was a component of the course;
(C) Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by law enforcement, community college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or a law enforcement agency if handgun safety was a component of the course;
(D) Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, reserve law enforcement officers or any other law enforcement officers if handgun safety was a component of the course;
(E) Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a handgun through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;
(F) Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state, unless the license has been revoked; or
(G) Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a firearms instructor certified by a law enforcement agency or the National Rifle Association if handgun safety was a component of the course;

Question: Since California doesn't required retired Military to obtain an HSC, just have to show their Retired Military ID Card to purchase firearms(longguns and handguns), then I am assuming a Retired Military ID would apply to section "E", am I correct in this assumption?

smllyman
02-10-2010, 7:23 PM
How do we know when & where he will be here?

D-Man
02-10-2010, 7:25 PM
Thanks for map reference. I guess this is subjective. How are the colors determined ?

If I can get an out of state non resident CCW, what prevents me from going to a neighboring county (vs state) to get a CA CCW ?

While I'm still looking for the light bulb of explanations (and it looks like others are too), I GP'ed $ to the good Sheriff just because he's doing the right thing (and ending up w/a $12K LiveScan to boot :-)

ric
California law requires you to go to your Sheriff or local PD depending on your residence. For Oregon, certain counties will issue to non-residents. Nothing is to stop you from going to another county in Oregon. Again, this Sheriff is making things easier so you don't have to travel to Oregon.

D-Man
02-10-2010, 7:28 PM
I could dig it......drive up Thurs nite. Do class on Friday, then hang in vegas for the weekend for the gun show and to meet the OR sheriff on Sat.

Can the class/live fire be done in one day such that you could get to LVMPD to do your prints and photo by the end of the day on a friday?

That is how my buddy normally runs things. Just depends on how many students he would have in the class. He has been teaching a long time, a former SEAL and Delta Force operator for 26 years. Plus he is a 1,000 yard rifle champion. He has forgotten more then I will remember in all of my years of firearms. His classes are VERY informative, and well worth your time and money.

D-Man
02-10-2010, 7:32 PM
CA Law. The Oregon statute says specifically that Oregon sheriffs MAY issue to residents of contiguous states, so our hero is doing just that. The CA statute says that CA sheriffs may NOT issue to non-residents of their county. It says that because there was a case of a CA sheriff doing something like that under the original, looser CA rules. Once the legislature got wind of the fact and realized that the entire state could end up as permissive as the most permissive sheriff, they "fixed" that horrible, terrible problem of law-abiding citizens protecting themselves.

Basically, there is really no reason the system in any state has to resemble that in any other state. No 2A restriction on what they do, no federal reciprocity--as long as the law isn't so flagrantly prejudicial that it violates the 14th even under the loosest scrutiny (I imagine that "no issue to left-handed Asian mimes" would not fly, unless perhaps word gets out that left-handed Asian mimes vote conservatively :rolleyes:), the states have been able to do anything they please.

IOW--don't assume that the rules for any state are predictive of the rules for any other state.

7x57
One minor point. A non-resident Sheriff can issue a temporary permit for 90 days only, it then has to be renewed at the end of the 90 days. Of course you still have to get through all the training, background check, etc. By the end of that your 90 days are up, and you can start all over again.

7x57
02-10-2010, 7:37 PM
One minor point. A non-resident Sheriff can issue a temporary permit for 90 days only, it then has to be renewed at the end of the 90 days.

Fair enough. I believe you can also carry if a magic unicorn brings you a permit stuck on his horn, but I haven't seen that either. :D

7x57, sure there is something about unicorns in the penal code

ChrisO
02-10-2010, 7:47 PM
Do you need to be 21 or could you apply at a younger age with a gifted pistol? I will try to get some funds together as I'm out of a job right now but this is a damn good cause!

pitchbaby
02-10-2010, 8:14 PM
One minor point. A non-resident Sheriff can issue a temporary permit for 90 days only, it then has to be renewed at the end of the 90 days. Of course you still have to get through all the training, background check, etc. By the end of that your 90 days are up, and you can start all over again.

I thought these 90 day permits were only good for carry in the county of issue.

Can they be used outside of the issuing county?

Gray Peterson
02-10-2010, 8:51 PM
Do you need to be 21 or could you apply at a younger age with a gifted pistol? I will try to get some funds together as I'm out of a job right now but this is a damn good cause!

21 only at the moment for Oregon. California is 18.

7x57
02-10-2010, 9:16 PM
21 only at the moment for Oregon. California is 18.

....but you can't actually buy the pistol yourself. :rolleyes:

7x57, cuz you know, "kids and guns don't mix...unless they're marines, then it's cool"

Aleong1967
02-10-2010, 9:25 PM
At this point, is the April gun show in Reno the place where the Oregon Sheriff will be ?

Sgt Raven
02-10-2010, 10:06 PM
At this point, is the April gun show in Reno the place where the Oregon Sheriff will be ?

Nothing is set yet, it's all in the planning stage.

Untamed1972
02-10-2010, 10:30 PM
Crossroads of the west shows for Reno and Vegas are:


Reno
Feb 20-21
May 22-23
July 24-25

Vegas
Mar. 6-7
June 12-13 (this would be cuz it's it's my b-day that wknd)
Aug 7-8

http://www.crossroadsgunshows.com/gunsched.htm

gorblimey
02-11-2010, 5:31 AM
What the hell is with all the DOUBT in this thread!!!

We have a GREAT SHERIFF who wants to go all around our state and basically GIVE AWAY CCW licenses for Oregon
[]



A license is antithetical to natural right, and feeds yet more information into the Leviathan. I am anything but eager to participate in and facilitate yet more of this.

Insofar as the practical reality of the matter, a little bird tells me that a license is quite superfluous for the gray man, in today's climate. The chance of a discovery via a random search is almost nil, and fear thereof is but a sheep's mental trap.

And if things get bad enough that ordinary people are randomly searched on the street, the notion of a CCW license will have outlived its context anyway.

D-Man
02-11-2010, 7:36 AM
I thought these 90 day permits were only good for carry in the county of issue.

Can they be used outside of the issuing county?

I do not know of anyone ever being issued one, just that it is legal. As far as legality of it, should be valid statewide as it is a CCW permit.

Maybe the magical unicorn really did bring it.