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View Full Version : Bought an AR in AZ, now moving to CA...


paradise
02-05-2010, 8:16 AM
Hi guys, lurked a while, but now have a question I can't find an answer to.

If I lived in AZ, and bought an off-list AR (RRA M4 A3) then installed a bullet button, and only ran 10 rd mags, how would I import it legally into CA? Or is that even possible?

Thanks

Zack

mossberg500
02-05-2010, 8:20 AM
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf

FortCourageArmory
02-05-2010, 8:21 AM
Look on the AW Flow Chart Appendix "B". RRA is mentioned but I don't think your particular rifle is one of the "evil" ones. RRA are a grey area in AW rules. You can run afoul of the law by accident just depending on how your rifle is built. Tread carefully.

If it's not listed, just bring it on over when you move to CA.

SKSer
02-05-2010, 8:21 AM
http://calnra.com/cgi-bin/flowchart.cgi

paradise
02-05-2010, 8:58 AM
Thanks guys, so basically if it isn't listed under any of the Appendixes, it has a bullet button on it and I only run 10 RD mags I'll be fine?

That's good news

SKSer
02-05-2010, 9:16 AM
go through the AW flow chart completely answering all the question completely if it passes that, then the only thing you have to worry about is what Fort Courage said. RRA's are listed, but yours is legal because even though your manufacturer is listed, your model is not, but you could run into some trouble with an un informed LEO, or even an informed one, that doesnt understand the law 100%. You need to remember, the first thing you are going to have to deal with out there is the LEO on the ground. If he is not completely clear on the law, he could take your gun from you or even worse, take your gun and then charge you. Now ultimately you would be on the right side of the law and would win in court and would hopefully get your gun back, but you DO NOT want it to go that far. let me give you an example:

Situation A: Leo shows up says its an assault weapon, you say "well its not listed by make and model", you show him the list, and even though you are correct he may not feel comfortable letting it go at that because it is still listed by manufacturer, so he takes it from you.

so what I would do, and this is just me, is purchase a completely off list OLL like a Stag-15, and transfer all your components over. Then just sell your stripped RRA lower to re-coup most if not all of the costs.

Situation B: Leo shows up, you show him that Stag-15 is not listed anywhere, and you could even carry a copy of the Stag-15 letter (THANK YOU LISA STRANGE). You are less likely to have an LEO take it away.

http://www.mreguns.com/files/16814335.pdf, I keep a copy of this in my range bag, and in the pistol grip of my stag.

Also to add, you need to understand these laws inside and out, and keep copies of all these laws so you can refer to them. You need to know exactly why your rifle is legal and be able to explain it like you are correct beyond the shadow of a doubt. Also if you still get it confiscated you need to be taking badge numbers, ask for a receipt and the LEO's supervisors name and phone number, and also have Cal guns number handy 1-800-556-2109. It also helps out to take it out shooting where you are less likely to have this happen. Do a little research about the area you plan to go shooting and ask around if it is OLL friendly.

paradise
02-05-2010, 9:30 AM
go through the AW flow chart completely answering all the question completely if it passes that, then the only thing you have to worry about is what Fort Courage said. RRA's are listed, but yours is legal because even though your manufacturer is listed, your model is not, but you could run into some trouble with an un informed LEO, or even an informed one, that doesnt understand the law 100%. You need to remember, the first thing you are going to have to deal with out there is the LEO on the ground. If he is not completely clear on the law, he could take your gun from you or even worse, take your gun and then charge you. Now ultimately you would be on the right side of the law and would win in court and would hopefully get your gun back, but you DO NOT want it to go that far. let me give you an example:

Situation A: Leo shows up says its an assault weapon, you say "well its not listed by make and model", you show him the list, and even though you are correct he may not feel comfortable letting it go at that because it is still listed by manufacturer, so he takes it from you.

so what I would do, and this is just me, is purchase a completely off list OLL like a Stag-15, and transfer all your components over. Then just sell your stripped RRA lower to re-coup most if not all of the costs.

Situation B: Leo shows up, you show him that Stag-15 is not listed anywhere, and you could even carry a copy of the Stag-15 letter (THANK YOU LISA STRANGE). You are less likely to have an LEO take it away.

http://www.mreguns.com/files/16814335.pdf, I keep a copy of this in my range bag, and in the pistol grip of my stag.

Also to add, you need to understand these laws inside and out, and keep copies of all these laws so you can refer to them. You need to know exactly why your rifle is legal and be able to explain it like you are correct beyond the shadow of a doubt. Also if you still get it confiscated you need to be taking badge numbers, ask for a receipt and the LEO's supervisors name and phone number, and also have Cal guns number handy 1-800-556-2109. It also helps out to take it out shooting where you are less likely to have this happen. Do a little research about the area you plan to go shooting and ask around if it is OLL friendly.

Thank you for the very thorough response. Where we usually go shooting in CA is out in the desert and usually well away from most LEOs. I do understand keeping the laws handy, thats a great idea, and I will definately think about swapping over to another AR platform, especially if I get hassled...

vantec08
02-05-2010, 9:32 AM
careful of "out in the desert" - - the BLM fields rangers who dont know much about CA gun law but DO know they have some authority.

SKSer
02-05-2010, 10:16 AM
careful of "out in the desert" - - the BLM fields rangers who dont know much about CA gun law but DO know they have some authority.

:iagree: and "out in the desert" , depending on which one could mean opposite ends of the spectrum. For instance the desert of LA county would be a high risk area for OLL shooting, where as the desert of Kern which borders LA county is very OLL friendly. What you need to do, is before you go out shooting, make a post in general gun discussions asking something like this "where in X county is an OLL friendly place to shoot?" In some counties like LA county, there are very limited places to shoot in general let alone if they are OLL friendly or not. Now in Kern county you can shoot almost anywhere, is some cases even your own back yard. fortunately for me I live on the border of LA and Kern county, it is closer for me to drive to Kern county then it is to drive the nearest designated shooting are in LA county.

IGOTDIRT4U
02-05-2010, 1:09 PM
Here's an alternative.

Sell the RRA lower to someone who wants it in AZ, buy a CA OLL here and put it back together instate. This covers you two ways. You are now as legal as anyone else with an OLL in CA and you are also done with any paperwork needed to comply with Fed and State laws (such as the 4473, etc.)

dantodd
02-05-2010, 2:00 PM
Here's an alternative.

Sell the RRA lower to someone who wants it in AZ, buy a CA OLL here and put it back together instate. This covers you two ways. You are now as legal as anyone else with an OLL in CA and you are also done with any paperwork needed to comply with Fed and State laws (such as the 4473, etc.)

There is zero paperwork required to bring a long arm that is not an AW into the state, assuming you are the owner.

boxbro
02-05-2010, 2:06 PM
There is zero paperwork required to bring a long arm that is not an AW into the state, assuming you are the owner.

But if he sells it in AZ he can do a face to face with no FFL required.
AFAIK, he can't do that in CA.

IGOTDIRT4U
02-05-2010, 2:09 PM
There is zero paperwork required to bring a long arm that is not an AW into the state, assuming you are the owner.

Ah, I guess I needed to be a bit more clear. My intention was to inform the OP that if he was really that worried about the legality of his RRA AR lower(or the LEO view of it if he was stopped and asked about it) then he should go ahead and get a CA OLL. That way, it is as legal as any other CA OLL AR (can be) and he also now has a record of the origin of the OLL via the 4473. (as useless as those can be in long gun transactions).

Sure, he can bring in his compliant AR from AZ (gotta love the flurry of abbreviations and acronyms!) but if he is worried about the 'legal' appearance of things, I was offering a relatively simple fix.

dantodd
02-05-2010, 2:32 PM
But if he sells it in AZ he can do a face to face with no FFL required.
AFAIK, he can't do that in CA.

exactly. so why create an unnecessary paper trail. If you sell it in AZ before moving might as well buy one from an unlisted vendor there too. Heck, find someone to do a straight swap.

boxbro
02-05-2010, 2:33 PM
exactly. so why create an unnecessary paper trail. If you sell it in AZ before moving might as well buy one from an unlisted vendor there too. Heck, find someone to do a straight swap.

Good point.

PonchoTA
02-05-2010, 2:34 PM
If you have some 30 rd mags, I'll be happy to 'hold onto them' for you, since I'll be in AZ for a while very soon!

Will be happy to sell off my extra couple of 10 rd mags too! :D

.

dantodd
02-05-2010, 2:38 PM
If you have some 30 rd mags, I'll be happy to 'hold onto them' for you, since I'll be in AZ for a while very soon!

Will be happy to sell off my extra couple of 10 rd mags too! :D

.

So you want him to GIVE you his 30 rounders and BUY your 10s? You could have at least offered a trade.

xlimey
02-05-2010, 5:01 PM
Here's an alternative.

Sell the RRA lower to someone who wants it in AZ, buy a CA OLL here and put it back together instate. This covers you two ways. You are now as legal as anyone else with an OLL in CA and you are also done with any paperwork needed to comply with Fed and State laws (such as the 4473, etc.)

^^^^what he said - solves a lot of potential problems

Then - as mentioned earlier - print and keep this handy:

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf

OP said in an earlier post:

"...I will definately think about swapping over to another AR platform, especially if I get hassled..."

Because if you wait until the time you get "hassled" in Ca. - if you haven't already covered the bases listed above - it may be too late to avoid expensive and troublesome exposure to our wonderful Ca. legal system...

Best of luck with your impending move to the Peoples Republic of California.

PonchoTA
02-12-2010, 10:32 PM
So you want him to GIVE you his 30 rounders and BUY your 10s? You could have at least offered a trade.
I was just tossing out a couple of ideas. I'm sure he can pick and offer himself.

.