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View Full Version : DVTRO: A First Hand Experience


11Z50
02-04-2010, 11:00 PM
For those of you that know me you might have wondered what happened; maybe I was overseas again? I assure you I would have rather been there than here for the last 45 days.

To make a long story short, I was the victim of a wrongfully filed DVTRO. I separated from my wife of 15 years in mid-August. I had been thinking of separation for some time, and she had threatened that if I left her she would claim domestic violence in order to ruin me and take my guns.

I left, and never stayed another night in the house I paid for since. I went there to check my mail a few times, but the confrontations became too violent against me, and I was assaulted by her.

We tried marriage counseling, but it didn't work. She continued to threaten and badger me. At the last session, she told me that if I filed for divorce she would claim domestic violence.

I filed for divorce 11-24-09. Sure enough, she filed for a civil (the LE people would not take the report) 12-7-09. I got railroaded in an ex-parte hearing on 12-17-09, a DVTRO was issued, and was forced to give up my CCW and turn-in or sell all my guns. I complied as directed.

on 1-19-10 a hearing was held, and on 2-1-10, the DVTRO was disolved because it was proved that the ex lied, in retaliation for my divorce filing.

Now, I have no guns. The ex was able to get away with this with impunity. It seems if you are a woman you can commit perjury all you want with no penalty.

I know I'm not the first man to go thru this, but I am beginning to think that having a penis in the PRK makes one a second-class citizen.

So, now I can look forward to rebuilding my collection, one pistol per month.

I didn't write this to whine or bemoan my personal situation. For you young bucks, be careful who you cohabitate with. For you older guys, you never know what the one you thought you loved might do.

rkt88edmo
02-04-2010, 11:31 PM
What a bummer - all sold to third parties, not trusted friends who would sell them back ? :(

11Z50
02-04-2010, 11:35 PM
You have to either surrender your guns to local LE (and probably never see them again) or transfer them to an FFL for sale.

Window_Seat
02-05-2010, 1:02 AM
Did you have a record of notifying Law Enforcement of the "threats" made by your ex? If so, will you maybe be able to take her to court for "damages"? I sure as hell would, and I would be contacting legal counsel here, but that's just me. Hope things get better for you.

Erik.

11Z50
02-05-2010, 6:15 AM
I am in the process of seeking damages, but I first have to come to a settlement in the divorce.

I am going to retrieve whatever guns didn't sell and order some replacements soon. I just have to make sure the CLETS order has been removed. It went on quick, but knowing the Gov't, it will probably take a few days. If I try to do a DROS it will bounce if the CLETS is still on.

B Strong
02-05-2010, 6:21 AM
For those of you that know me you might have wondered what happened; maybe I was overseas again? I assure you I would have rather been there than here for the last 45 days.

To make a long story short, I was the victim of a wrongfully filed DVTRO. I separated from my wife of 15 years in mid-August. I had been thinking of separation for some time, and she had threatened that if I left her she would claim domestic violence in order to ruin me and take my guns.

I left, and never stayed another night in the house I paid for since. I went there to check my mail a few times, but the confrontations became too violent against me, and I was assaulted by her.

We tried marriage counseling, but it didn't work. She continued to threaten and badger me. At the last session, she told me that if I filed for divorce she would claim domestic violence.

I filed for divorce 11-24-09. Sure enough, she filed for a civil (the LE people would not take the report) 12-7-09. I got railroaded in an ex-parte hearing on 12-17-09, a DVTRO was issued, and was forced to give up my CCW and turn-in or sell all my guns. I complied as directed.

on 1-19-10 a hearing was held, and on 2-1-10, the DVTRO was disolved because it was proved that the ex lied, in retaliation for my divorce filing.

Now, I have no guns. The ex was able to get away with this with impunity. It seems if you are a woman you can commit perjury all you want with no penalty.

I know I'm not the first man to go thru this, but I am beginning to think that having a penis in the PRK makes one a second-class citizen.

So, now I can look forward to rebuilding my collection, one pistol per month.

I didn't write this to whine or bemoan my personal situation. For you young bucks, be careful who you cohabitate with. For you older guys, you never know what the one you thought you loved might do.


I hope this works out for you, but I wish you would have posted here asking for advice before selling off your collection (maybe I missed it?)

Friends of mine have gone through this, and the solution for a gunnie that finds themselves in this crack is to transfer ownership of the collection to your attorney.

Upon the reinstatement of your rights, the attorney transfers the firearms back to you.

timdps
02-05-2010, 10:31 AM
So, now I can look forward to rebuilding my collection, one pistol per month.


Sorry to hear about your situation, but I do have a possible solution for your one pistol per month problem. A C&R license and a COE will allow unlimited handgun (Both C&R AND modern) purchases per month.

Tim

Rascal
02-05-2010, 4:45 PM
Damn Toby, Sorry to hear about this. :mad:
I hope everything turns out OK.

anthonyca
02-05-2010, 4:53 PM
This crap is more common then most people relize. She should pay dearly but as anyone who has gone through this knows, nothing will happen. Good thing she didn't conspire with a friend and have her call.

Before this experiance did you think this could actually happen?

guntntteacher
02-05-2010, 5:30 PM
My dad got 5150 because of his exwife for the same thing, but she wanted to sell is antique rifles. Good thing was he had friends that chased the wench out of his shop and locked it up. It took 3 months for the court to fix and remove the 5150. his laywer set something up where his rifles were in custody, don;t remember how but the court agreed.

Glock22Fan
02-05-2010, 5:32 PM
A friend of mine was being constantly phoned by his ex. She phoned him up and begged him to come around and fix something on her car. While he was there, she phoned several friends and complained that "He's around here harrassing me again and won't go away." Then she threw the twelve year old out of the house at 9 p.m. on a cold night, without a coat, and told her never to come back. She called her dad, who picked her up. The ex then called the sheriffs and told them he'd "kidnapped" her daughter.

Fortunately, his kids heard all this and related it at the next court custody hearing.

vantec08
02-05-2010, 6:27 PM
sorry to hear of this, 11Z50. Another case of a "political solution" to a non-political situation. I also vehemently disagree with the mandatory-booking bull**** of 'domestic violence.' All she has to do is whine "he hit me" and away the guy goes. Most LEOs can spin stories about its abuse.

tac
02-05-2010, 6:57 PM
I'm sorry to hear.

falawful
02-05-2010, 7:09 PM
Call the guns in stolen..... b/c they were, weren't they?

SteveH
02-05-2010, 7:12 PM
TRO abuse is very common. Its a broken system that i would rather see attacked than highcap mag bans and LOC prohibitions.

The TRO deprives man of their 2nd admendment rights without due process. They are focred under the threat of jail to give up their 2nd admendmant rights before they can defend themselves in any hearing.

Southwest Chuck
02-05-2010, 7:17 PM
This crap is more common then most people relize. She should pay dearly but as anyone who has gone through this knows, nothing will happen. Good thing she didn't conspire with a friend and have her call.

Before this experiance did you think this could actually happen?

Mine did conspire...... with the guy she was having an affair with. They set me up once and kept trying. Long story short, in the end, everything was proven false, and all the 911 calls and false police reports later, just a slap on the wrist for her by the judge. Cost me $$$ to defend, though. There needs to be a law......

My heart felt best wishes to the OP.

Aldemar
02-05-2010, 9:12 PM
Total bummer! Hope you can rebuild your collection.

Did you say she threatened you at a marriage councelling session? If so, that counselor could be your biggest asset during your divorce hearing.

Also, what is the status of your CCW? Is it going to be reissued or is that another hassle you need to address?

RandyD
02-06-2010, 8:27 AM
I have written about DVTRO issues a number of times on this website. I am an attorney and have practiced Family Law for more that 16 years, and I have handled enough DVTRO cases that I could write a book on the subject. There is so much involved that my primary advice to everyone is to consult with an experienced attorney immediately if you think this is coming. Next, you need to take proactive measures to prevent yourself from being set up.

In my experience, in a general sense, men refuse to stand up for themselves and allow their wives take advantage of them. Men also have a tendency to procrastinate and they wait to retain me only a day or two before the hearing, which hardly gives me enough time to handle their case properly. Men seem to want to avoid litigation while women seem to enjoy the process.

At the hearing if a judge issues a DVTRO against you, there is a statute that prevents you from having custody of your children, which also results in a higher child support order, and there is a statute that requires the courts to consider domestic violence when awarding spousal support, which means higher spousal support. I have also experienced judges unfairly apply the law to people who have had prior DVTROs.

SteveH
02-06-2010, 9:21 AM
The law needs to be changed so there is no firearms prohibition triggerd until AFTER a hearing where the respondant has a chance to defend himself.

rkt88edmo
02-06-2010, 1:06 PM
@Randy - are there any reputable family law organizations or similar industry groups that one would use to help find an experienced attorney?

bodger
02-06-2010, 2:03 PM
Already asked, but I'm also curious about the status of getting your CCW re-instated.
This TRO thing is out of control. Seems as though more of them are issued as a result of false accusations than actual DV actions or threats.
One call does it all, and you're screwed.

RandyD
02-06-2010, 2:06 PM
@Randy - are there any reputable family law organizations or similar industry groups that one would use to help find an experienced attorney?

I am not aware of any organizations that are focused on Second Amendment rights pertaining to DVTRO actions. Most family law practitioners can handle DVTRO actions, because it is an integral part of that area of practice. However, based on the many discussions that I have had with my fellow family law practitioners, they are unsympathetic to the consequences of their client's loosing their Second Amendment rights. Generally, they are more focused on the affect a restraining order has on custody, child support and spousal support. If anyone needs assistance, guidance or advice, send me a PM. I generally do not accept cases outside of San Diego County, but I'll do what I can for you.

As a side note, in California there are two other types of restraining orders; Civil Harassment and Work Place Harassment, and in both of those actions, if the restraining order is upheld, you will loose your Second Amendment rights.

GuyW
02-06-2010, 5:12 PM
Sounds like a plaintiff-rich pool of citizens who violated no laws and committed no violence.

Among them must be some poor sap who is willing to do something about it in federal court...

Oh yeah - and maybe a few malpractice cases against family law attorneys will sharpen their collective appreciation for Constitutional rights...

The RKBA Bar might find this is easy money....
.

I am not aware of any organizations that are focused on Second Amendment rights pertaining to DVTRO actions. Most family law practitioners can handle DVTRO actions, because it is an integral part of that area of practice. However, based on the many discussions that I have had with my fellow family law practitioners, they are unsympathetic to the consequences of their client's loosing their Second Amendment rights. Generally, they are more focused on the affect a restraining order has on custody, child support and spousal support. If anyone needs assistance, guidance or advice, send me a PM. I generally do not accept cases outside of San Diego County, but I'll do what I can for you.

As a side note, in California there are two other types of restraining orders; Civil Harassment and Work Place Harassment, and in both of those actions, if the restraining order is upheld, you will loose your Second Amendment rights.

RandyD
02-06-2010, 7:45 PM
Sounds like a plaintiff-rich pool of citizens who violated no laws and committed no violence.

Among them must be some poor sap who is willing to do something about it in federal court...

Oh yeah - and maybe a few malpractice cases against family law attorneys will sharpen their collective appreciation for Constitutional rights...

The RKBA Bar might find this is easy money....
.

GuyW,
I wish it was as easy as you state. An attorney cannot be held liable because his client lied in the supporting declaration. You can go after the attorney if you can show that the attorney knew or maybe if the attorney should have known the supporting declaration contained perjured testimony. Also, many restraining orders are filed by people who are acting as their own attorney.

In my experience, the people who are most likely to lie are those who have few financial resources, are not able to manage their own lives, and are using the court system as a form of empowering their pathetic lives. Typically these people are what attorneys refer to as being judgment proof, meaning they don't have enough assets worth filing a subsequent lawsuit to recover the damages their client's suffered. However, in restraining order cases, when I defend them I ask for attorney fees and have been awarded fees by the judge when I can show the case lacked merit or the allegations were fabrications.

Unfortunately, lying is out of control in the courts and the judges do nothing to hold people accountable for lying. I do not understand why the bench does not hold people accountable, and in my opinion, this is one of the reasons why perjury is to common.

radioburning
02-06-2010, 8:10 PM
For you older guys, you never know what the one you thought you loved might do.

This^^^^

It's amazing how intentionally hurtful they can be.

Women will always be smarter than men when it comes to relationships, but they have absolutely no concept of playing fair...

radioburning
02-06-2010, 8:11 PM
P.s. Keep yer head up, you're no longer chained to someone who would stoop to any level to hurt you.

radioburning
02-06-2010, 8:16 PM
What a bummer - all sold to third parties, not trusted friends who would sell them back ? :(

I know I have at least a couple friends who would buy all my rifles for a nickle apiece and sell them back to me for a penny.

GuyW
02-06-2010, 8:18 PM
GuyW,

I wish it was as easy as you state. An attorney cannot be held liable because his client lied in the supporting declaration.

As to malpractice, I was speaking in terms of the gunowner's attorney, some of whom (if I understood you correctly) don't bother to attempt protecting their client's rights....ineffective counsel....

.

Gray Peterson
02-06-2010, 8:35 PM
Are you getting your CCW back?

RP1911
02-06-2010, 9:21 PM
Can a DVTRO's requirement to relinquish firearms be challenged as a civil rights violation considering the individual is not convicted yet of a crime?

anthonyca
02-06-2010, 9:44 PM
@Randy - are there any reputable family law organizations or similar industry groups that one would use to help find an experienced attorney?

http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/?page_id=1170

Glenn does good work and publicizes these kinds of unjust cases. I suggest sending him an email with any proof of her lying and the court not holding her accountable. We need to have a database to prove the gross misconduct of the courts and police in these matters.

He also has referances of family law law firms.

SteveH
02-07-2010, 11:38 AM
GuyW,
I wish it was as easy as you state. An attorney cannot be held liable because his client lied in the supporting declaration. You can go after the attorney if you can show that the attorney knew or maybe if the attorney should have known the supporting declaration contained perjured testimony. Also, many restraining orders are filed by people who are acting as their own attorney.

In my experience, the people who are most likely to lie are those who have few financial resources, are not able to manage their own lives, and are using the court system as a form of empowering their pathetic lives. Typically these people are what attorneys refer to as being judgment proof, meaning they don't have enough assets worth filing a subsequent lawsuit to recover the damages their client's suffered. However, in restraining order cases, when I defend them I ask for attorney fees and have been awarded fees by the judge when I can show the case lacked merit or the allegations were fabrications.

Unfortunately, lying is out of control in the courts and the judges do nothing to hold people accountable for lying. I do not understand why the bench does not hold people accountable, and in my opinion, this is one of the reasons why perjury is to common.



Judges are simply afraid to say no to a TRO request. Sure 15 to 28 days later when there is a hearing the judge will not issue the full 3-year RO. But that is little consolation to your client who has already been stripped on his rights and property.

If you are willing to lie you can get a TRO against anyone and they wont even know until they are served.

SteveH
02-07-2010, 11:39 AM
Can a DVTRO's requirement to relinquish firearms be challenged as a civil rights violation considering the individual is not convicted yet of a crime?

It should be.

Denial of property and second amendment rights without due process. Remember you lose your guns before you ever set foot into a courtroom.

bambam8d1
02-07-2010, 11:44 AM
damn... best of luck to you. sorry to hear that

Meplat
02-07-2010, 7:35 PM
Why can’t FFLs provide a service through which they would agree to buy, hold, and sell back, for a reasonable fee? I gave up my FFL when Clinton got elected, but I would have done that if some poor stiff had come to me with one of these stories I would have tried to help any way I could.

It seems to me that a sales contract for just such a circumstance could be standardized. The FFL would by the guns for a token amount and agree to sell them back at the same price plus a small pre agreed premium. There could be a clause to the effect that if the RO were upheld the FFL would sell the guns at fair market price , the proceeds less fees (the same or similar fees charged for consignment sales) would be returned to the original owner. I realize the double DROSing would eat you alive if you are lucky enough to be exonerated.

I don’t see why this is not a common practice. A little profit and a big benefit to the community that patronizes your business

BTW I think when this happens someone should post the name, address, both home and work, license number, and detailed description of the whitch. :43: NOT

N6ATF
02-07-2010, 8:27 PM
I am in the process of seeking damages, but I first have to come to a settlement in the divorce.

Not sure if this would be acceptable to you or even legally feasible, but I would forgo seeking damages if she gives you everything but her clothes, shoes, and feminine products (and she gets to keep her separate bank account if she had one).

Perjurers shouldn't even get that much, but hey...