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pullnshoot25
02-04-2010, 1:26 PM
Looks like they are at it nationwide.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/gunlobbybacked/opencarryguns

pullnshoot25
02-04-2010, 1:27 PM
The FAQ is unbearable. Pun intended.

PEBKAC
02-04-2010, 1:30 PM
The FAQ is unbearable. Pun intended.
That is terrible.

We shall have to see if Starbucks decides to pull a Petes...

pullnshoot25
02-04-2010, 1:33 PM
That is terrible.

We shall have to see if Starbucks decides to pull a Petes...

I hope they don't. If they do, it will be a crying shame. I think Starbucks in the free states will just end up ignoring it.

dantodd
02-04-2010, 1:48 PM
Doh! had Peet's and claim jumpers confused.

Hopi
02-04-2010, 1:54 PM
Does anybody have a contact phone number for The Brady Bunch?

Milsurp Collector
02-04-2010, 1:54 PM
We shall have to see if Starbucks decides to pull a Petes...

Rather than taking a wait and see approach, open carry advocates should email Starbucks and thank them for supporting your rights.

postal16
02-04-2010, 1:54 PM
We need a petition to say we don't want them to chnage their policies...I bet the RKBA movement can get more signatures!

Silencer
02-04-2010, 1:57 PM
If they're stupid enough to give in to the BradyButtMunchers, I wont buy their ice cream anymore.

They'll lose millions! :D

ChrisO
02-04-2010, 1:58 PM
That made me want to puke.

sorensen440
02-04-2010, 1:59 PM
Does anybody have a contact phone number for The Brady Bunch?

Brady Center To Prevent GunAddress:http://maps.gstatic.com/intl/en_us/mapfiles/transparent.png‎
1225 I Street Northwest
Washington, DC 20005-3914
(202) 289-7319

sfpcservice
02-04-2010, 2:05 PM
Can someone please make an online petition? I don't know how but will gladly sign it.

SixPointEight
02-04-2010, 2:06 PM
We need a petition to say we don't want them to chnage their policies...I bet the RKBA movement can get more signatures!

We really do. Anyone want to organize?

Perhaps even someone in with CGF can figure out how to make a petition like the one they did, but for the opposite reason, and we can send it in as well

MudCamper
02-04-2010, 2:08 PM
Looks like they are at it nationwide.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/gunlobbybacked/opencarryguns

Their petition is calling for Starbucks to ban both open and concealed carry.

This will effect everybody if they knuckle to the bullies.

I'll post this on other forums as well (assuming it isn't done already).

ETA: I've posted this on TFL, THR, and USACarry. It's already posted on OCDO.

FYI Starbucks contact page: http://www.starbucks.com/customer/contact_forms.asp?nav=3f

We all need to contact Starbucks and let them know that we appreciate that they respect our rights and our state laws, and to not let the Brady bullies pressure them into changing their position.

RP1911
02-04-2010, 2:11 PM
Rather than taking a wait and see approach, open carry advocates should email Starbucks and thank them for supporting your rights.

This! I almost typed something similar.

I guess the Bradys didn't learn from this:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/first100/1001214.html

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Scratch705
02-04-2010, 2:13 PM
so the brady bunch would be fine if i OC a 6" fixed blade at a starbucks right?

Hopi
02-04-2010, 2:13 PM
Brady Center To Prevent GunAddress:http://maps.gstatic.com/intl/en_us/mapfiles/transparent.png‎
1225 I Street Northwest
Washington, DC 20005-3914
(202) 289-7319

Thank you very much.

My google fu is weak on the Brady's, how can I find a breakdown of their funding sources?

grammaton76
02-04-2010, 2:14 PM
Just a reminder, folks - it's been determined that the Claim Jumpers policy was the choice of a district or region of stores, NOT corporate policy. The Claim Jumper thread (I wanna say post #62?) has that info.

2009_gunner
02-04-2010, 2:17 PM
I sent Starbucks a message last week using their website to thank them for not banning open carry, and to tell them I have been buying more of their drinks and food lately. I gave them my full name, phone, address, etc, so hopefully they felt is was a legitimate message.
http://www.starbucks.com/customer/contact_forms.asp?nav=3f (under "Corporate Social Responsibility")

I got the following reply
Hello XXXXXXXX,

Thanks for contacting Starbucks Coffee Company.

Starbucks does not have corporate policy regarding customers and weapons; we defer to federal, state and local laws and regulations regarding this issue.

I want to thank you for taking the time to give us feedback and I'm glad you are enjoying your experiences at our stores.

We appreciate you taking the time to write to us.

Warm Regards,

William D
Customer Relations
Starbucks Coffee Company
800 23-LATTE (235-2883)
Monday through Friday, 5AM to 6PM (PST)

383green
02-04-2010, 2:23 PM
I'm going to send my thoughts to Starbucks about this. If they cave in to this petition, I will boycott them, and that'll lose them somewhere north of $1,000 of revenue per year.

Scratch705
02-04-2010, 2:27 PM
only $1,000? they get that much from those that visit 3 times a day in 1 month.

383green
02-04-2010, 2:36 PM
Here's the message I just sent to SBUX via the link that 2009_gunner provided:

Dear Starbucks,

I'm a happy Starbucks customer, and I estimate that I spend somewhere north of $1,000 per year at my local Starbucks store.

It has come to my attention that the Brady Campaign is trying to pressure you to ban your customers from lawful carry of self-defense weapons in your stores:

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/gunlobbybacked/opencarryguns

I understand that you do not presently have a corporate policy regarding weapon carry, but I'd just like to let you know that if you establish a no-weapons policy as the Brady Campaign suggests, I will boycott your stores and products, and you will lose all of my regular revenue. Also, the baristas at my local store will undoubtedly become quite lonely without my daily visits.

Thank you for your delicious caffeinated service, and I hope that our business relationship will continue indefinitely.

I also retweeted CGF's retweet of the news, and posted it on my Facebook page.

Now, I'm off to my local SBUX on the way to deliver some lead to my local range!

Super Spy
02-04-2010, 2:36 PM
I signed it as F*** NO! most of the rest I can't post as it would get filtered or get me banned....shame on me

383green
02-04-2010, 2:38 PM
only $1,000? they get that much from those that visit 3 times a day in 1 month.

I'm sure it's higher than that, but I guess I'm lame since I usually only go there once a day. :D

SixPointEight
02-04-2010, 2:41 PM
Here's the message I just sent to SBUX via the link that 2009_gunner provided:



I also retweeted CGF's retweet of the news, and posted it on my Facebook page.

Now, I'm off to my local SBUX on the way to deliver some lead to my local range!

Don't think I would have used the word boycott, but it is effective.
I would have made it more veiled like, "I will be forced to find a new coffee shop to spend my mornings at"

383green
02-04-2010, 2:49 PM
Don't think I would have used the word boycott, but it is effective.

I would have used the word "embargo" "blockade", but I'm too lazy to camp out there all day. :chris:

Anyway, I haven't been too worried about the Bradys' weak efforts to take my guns lately, but if they're going after my coffee then the gloves come off. :boxing_smiley:

SixPointEight
02-04-2010, 2:50 PM
I would have used the word "embargo", but I'm too lazy to camp out there all day. :chris:

Anyway, I haven't been too worried about the Bradys' weak efforts to take my guns lately, but if they're going after my coffee then the gloves come off. :boxing_smiley:

LOL! Embargo. I love it.

Not a big starbucks person, but I usually go there once a week or so, if this goes through it'll be no times a week.

383green
02-04-2010, 2:51 PM
LOL! Embargo. I love it.

After consulting my dictionary, I just changed it to "blockade". :43:

Chk Chk Boom
02-04-2010, 2:56 PM
The NRA’s vision of America is one in which there is nowhere we can go, or bring our families, and escape the guns.

Lmao!

M1A Rifleman
02-04-2010, 3:01 PM
This kind of thing will be the next issue if we get incorporation and a shall issue in CA. The gun haters will be pushing establishments to prohibit guns. I hate to gve them ideas, but I can see them getting this through litigation and high insurance premiums.

loather
02-04-2010, 3:01 PM
Don't these asshats ever stop? The Brady Bunch can go die in a fire.

sideshowhr
02-04-2010, 3:02 PM
http://imgur.com/XknhB.jpg

yikes.

i guess the guns grew legs.

SixPointEight
02-04-2010, 3:03 PM
http://imgur.com/XknhB.jpg

yikes.

i guess the guns grew legs.

It's sad to see how many guns were murdered :P

Blackhawk556
02-04-2010, 3:09 PM
let's wait and see what starbucks does

NDFMF
02-04-2010, 3:23 PM
The FAQ on the Brady page is hilarious. I especially enjoy the part where they imply that anyone who can pass a background check can get a CCW. Apparently they have not lived in California before.

MudCamper
02-04-2010, 3:28 PM
let's wait and see what starbucks does

I disagree. We should make sure they receive more pro-gun correspondence than cry-Brady correspondence.

The FAQ on the Brady page is hilarious. I especially enjoy the part where they imply that anyone who can pass a background check can get a CCW. Apparently they have not lived in California before.

Remember that they have upped the anti. Hey I made a pun! Anyway, not only do they target CCW but they've made this a nationwide attack.

Milsurp Collector
02-04-2010, 3:30 PM
Fun quotes:

Over the past few months, more and more gun owners have been gathering at restaurants and coffee shops like Starbucks with guns strapped to their hips, intimidating fellow patrons.

It's everyone's right to sit in a restaurant or coffee shop with their families without intimidation or fear of guns, either concealed or openly carried.

If someone has a concealed weapon, how would they know there is a gun nearby to make them feel afraid or intimidated? :confused:

The practice of packing heat in places like Starbucks is intimidating and could be potentially dangerous to our families and communities – and it must be stopped!

The open carrying of firearms in public places is inherently threatening and intimidating, and poses risks to those nearby, to law enforcement and to the community. For example, when open carry has occurred in retail stores, other customers quickly become alarmed and the police often are called to the scene, creating a volatile and potentially dangerous situation. Everyone should have the right to sit in a coffee shop or a restaurant with their families, including their children, without being confronted with the threatening presence of openly-displayed handguns and assault weapons.

Businesses should bar the open, as well as the concealed, carry of firearms on their premises. States where open carry is largely unregulated should either prohibit open carry, with limited exceptions, or adopt measures to subject open carry to strict licensing requirements in the interest of public safety.

Q. Why is open carry a problem?

A. More and more gun owners, seeking to “make a statement” about their right to have a gun, are openly carrying guns, particularly pistols and other handguns, in public places like restaurants and coffee shops, as well as to political events like town hall meetings.

For example, in the summer of 2009, a man stood outside the venue of a Presidential appearance on health care reform in New Hampshire with a pistol openly strapped to his thigh (Murray, 2009). A dozen people openly carrying guns were among the protestors outside the convention center in Phoenix where the President was giving a speech, including one who walked around with an AR-15 assault rifle strapped to his back (Associated Press, 2009). Groups of gun owners also have begun gathering at restaurants and coffee shops, with their handguns openly displayed.

The open display of firearms in public places is inherently threatening and intimidating, and poses risks to those nearby, to law enforcement and to the community. For example, when open carry has occurred in retail stores, other customers quickly become alarmed and the police often are called to the scene, creating a volatile and potentially dangerous situation. As a Sheriff’s Lieutenant in California put it, “Open carry advocates create a potentially very dangerous situation,” because when police respond to a “man with a gun” call, they have no idea what the intentions of the gun carrier may be and “the result could be deadly” (San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office, 2010).

Everyone should have the right to sit in a coffee shop or a restaurant with their families, including their children, without being confronted with the threatening presence of openly-displayed guns.

Q. If gun owners can simply get a license to carry concealed, why do they want to openly carry guns, particularly concealable handguns, in public?

"can simply get a license to carry concealed" :laugh:

And I thought they said that they are against concealed carry also. :confused:

Q. How does open carry relate to the overall agenda and tactics of the gun lobby?

A. Open carry is part of a broader campaign, led by the National Rifle Association, to force guns into every corner of American society by “normalizing” the carrying of guns in public places, openly and concealed. The NRA led the effort to get states to revise their laws on concealed carry to deprive law enforcement authorities of the discretion to fully evaluate applicants for concealed carry licenses, requiring the police to issue such licenses to virtually anyone who could pass a criminal background check. The NRA is now pressing for legislation to legalize concealed carry in bars, churches, workplace parking lots, parks, college campuses and elsewhere. Open carry is simply another way of advancing the NRA’s “any gun, anywhere, anytime” philosophy. The NRA’s vision of America is one in which there is nowhere we can go, or bring our families, and escape the guns.

In addition, open carry is consistent with the gun lobby’s longstanding tactic of using intimidation to advance its extremist views. The appearance of openly carried guns at political events certainly communicates the message that, as the NRA’s Wayne LaPierre put it, “The guys with the guns make the rules” (Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, 2009).

armandolo
02-04-2010, 3:31 PM
+1 +1
Rather than taking a wait and see approach, open carry advocates should email Starbucks and thank them for supporting your rights.

7x57
02-04-2010, 3:46 PM
"can simply get a license to carry concealed" :laugh:

And I thought they said that they are against concealed carry also. :confused:

"We the National Gun Owners Foundation welcome The Brady Campaign's support for CCW and ask them to join with us in promoting shall-issue legislation to end this scourge. We are ready to start a joint campaign and invite them to make it their highest priority."

7x57

jdberger
02-04-2010, 3:49 PM
Thank you very much.

My google fu is weak on the Brady's, how can I find a breakdown of their funding sources?

The 501(c)3 stuff is public. I posted some high points a way back, but there's no breakdown. Just a yearly total of donations. You can take that number and subtract whatever they get from Joyce.

Remind me later and I'll search for it. The thread has 501(c)3 in the title (I think).

pullnshoot25
02-04-2010, 3:59 PM
Damn, you guys are friggin rad. I go to take a MolBio test and 1/2 the internet has been awakened :)

AJAX22
02-04-2010, 4:17 PM
The evil mouse that lives between my ears is sorely tempted by the idea of a 'blockade' of starbucks....

picket lines... customer sit ins....

sealing the enterance with packing tape, clear epoxy and plexiglass.... (ok ok... maby not property destruction.... but certainly peacefull demonstrations)

I could see ordering 50 or 100 yards of manure delivered to their parkinglots at 3am... or even have it dumped against the front door (ok ok no 'creative free speech either'.... even if it IS just giving them a ration of bull**** like their corporate policies give us...)

Damn..... how fun would it be to get a few truckloads of manure delivered to the brady headquarters in DC?

now what would the sign say.......

BroncoBob
02-04-2010, 4:22 PM
They do and it's just another coffee house that will not get my money. I can live without Starbucks

nick
02-04-2010, 5:20 PM
Looks like they are at it nationwide.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/gunlobbybacked/opencarryguns

I'm curious... How many potential customers does Brady have?

SixPointEight
02-04-2010, 5:21 PM
I'm curious... How many potential customers does Brady have?

About 15 if you believe their facebook page haha

383green
02-04-2010, 6:09 PM
Here's what a friend of mine had to say when I posted this on my Facebook:

Well, I msg'd a friend of mine to get an email addy, cuz I hate using forms.

I called the 800# instead and spent some time on the phone with a CSR. I explained what the brady org was trying to do, and my concern about it, and that they already had "victories" with CPK and Peet's Coffee. He took comprensive notes to forward on.

Then, I did one better. On the brady link, they have a munged up version of the *bux logo.

In 2000 a comic artist was sued by *bux for similarly using their logo. It was fair use, but they did not care much for is interpretation as "Consumer Whore". Here's his rambling:
http://www.kierondwyer.com/LCD/GREED.htm

Anyway, I explained to them that while I thought this was unfair as fair use is protected, I stated that I expected *bux to be highly consistent here and to likewise sue the brady org to cease using the logo as well. He entered the comments and sent them off to internal security for review while we were still on the line.

2fer1, ja.

Oh. Yeah. :thumbsup:

SixPointEight
02-04-2010, 6:19 PM
Oh heck yes. That's some smart thinking.

Lone_Gunman
02-04-2010, 6:38 PM
Just sent S-bucks an email thanking them for not adopting policies that ban the legal carrying of weapons in the stores. Gave them kudos for deferirng to state and fed law on the mater which is a very politically smart thing to do from a business prospective while not adopting a policy that infringes on 2A rights. Ended by saying I would never step in a Peets again.

yellowfin
02-04-2010, 7:51 PM
I wonder if Starbucks can sue the Bradys for doing this as it drives away customers, both on our side and the people they're trying to frighten.

GammaRei
02-04-2010, 7:58 PM
At this point a people need to start sending letters to Starbucks. Telling them that its wonderful that they value the Constitution. Seriously this petition is BS.

- G

SLYoteBoy
02-04-2010, 7:59 PM
Email sent. Hopefully they understand. And dont sway under the bradybunch pressure.

yellowfin
02-04-2010, 8:06 PM
Now that I think about it, would this give us standing for a class action suit against the Bradys for them trying to get us effectively kicked out of Starbucks? That seems to me like it's gotta be a tort of some kind.

GammaRei
02-04-2010, 8:18 PM
Email sent. Hopefully they understand. And dont sway under the bradybunch pressure.

Pfft. . . Just say something along the lines of you fully support them over the [Insert Competitor Names] and that you will also tell everyone you know including family and friends to shop at their stores. (I worked for Peets for 1 1/2 years and will support Starbucks on this one).

- G

rero360
02-04-2010, 8:35 PM
I just sent Starbucks an email stating my position. Who know if it'll help.

VW*Mike
02-04-2010, 10:42 PM
I emailed them. Told them how much my wife and I like their coffee, and patronize their business 3-4 times per week. I also said I would hate to see them pressured by a radical group into infringing upon us law abiding citizens Constitutional rights and freedoms. Freedoms in America that helped their company to become so successful. I would suggest ALL of you send an email.

greasemonkey
02-04-2010, 11:37 PM
Several times I've worked with an organization that develops the 3rd world hill tribes in Thailand to grow coffee for Starbucks (and now DunkinDonuts), called the Integrated Tribal Development Program.

It was really nice to see some of the investment and commitment that Starbucks has made to that region, supporting clean water projects, medical clinics and sustainable agri-business practices that help get the villages out of poverty, out of child prostitution and out of drug/human trafficking!
Check the little sticker on top of the Muan Jai roast coffee bags, 5% of the profit goes to developing hill tribes in Thailand...those are the trips I've been involved with, the money DOES actually go somewhere!

I'm going to send a letter to them thanking them for their involvement in Thailand and bring it to a close with thanking them for deferring to State/Federal Law concerning legal carrying of firearms, even if it's something they don't necessarily like or agree with. I will continue to give them my patronage.

Werewolf1021
02-04-2010, 11:53 PM
I think half their petition will be from the super brady supporters and the other half will be joke ones. "My name is Buck Futter and I think Starbucks is wrong!" :D

Scratch705
02-05-2010, 12:14 AM
or it will be from anti-starbucks people. that wouldn't care either way.

Maestro Pistolero
02-05-2010, 1:32 AM
Dear Starbucks,
I just want to congratulate and thank Starbucks for staying above the fray with regard to the anti-second amendment zealots that have taken it upon themselves to tell everyone, including your fine company, how to conduct business.

A formerly loyal Peet's fan, I will not be patronizing Peet's any longer due to their disregard for constitutional rights and failure to respect local firearms law.

As you may know, popular respect and acquiescence to second amendment is growing in leaps and bounds in recent years, and the Supreme Court is widely expected to apply '2A' protection to local governments in the current term. In some states, even the ACLU is now falling on the side of '2A' protection. Thanks again for showing such backbone. Your judgment and discretion are entirely too rare in the business community. And, you make a helluva cup. Thanks again.

Sincerely,
**********
phone******
address*********

pullnshoot25
02-05-2010, 6:21 AM
I seriously love you guys :)

jdberger
02-05-2010, 9:15 AM
I encourage everyone to send an email, letter and fax.

Mine:

I'd like to drop you a note thanking you for respecting the civil rights of your patrons and not allowing the Brady Campaign to pressure you into changing your position.

Civil rights are important, whether it's the right to sit at a lunch counter or to carry a weapon for self defense.

It's unfortunate that your competitor, Peets doesn't feel the same. That said, I'll only be patronizing Starbucks from now on.

Best regards,

jdberger

D-Man
02-05-2010, 9:45 AM
E-Mail sent.

ldivinag
02-05-2010, 10:03 AM
i tried to donate to them...

but apparently, they dont want my penny...

dang... :)

loather
02-05-2010, 10:18 AM
i tried to donate to them...

but apparently, they dont want my penny...

dang... :)

You can donate to them as often as you'd like. Just go into the store and buy a cup of coffee. :)

pneutin
02-05-2010, 11:01 AM
Here's what I sent:

Thank you for allowing customers to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights in full compliance with federal, state, and local laws. It is good to see Starbucks set an excellent example for other companies by not imposing a political agenda on them. I will be sure to frequent your stores more often than I already do, and tell my friends to do the same.

Paul E
02-05-2010, 1:25 PM
To Whom It May Concern,

It has come to my attention that the Brady Campaign has encouraged you to change your corporate policy to begin prohibiting legally carried firearms at your locations. I am extremely thankful that a company as large and in the spotlight as yours refuses to cave to the pressure of groups trying to impose on our civil rights. Starbucks has proven yet again to recognize what is truly important (other than one of your competitors, peets). As a result of starbucks refusing to cave to such demands, I will gladly continue to patronize your locations, and encourage my friends and family to do the same.

Respectfully,
Paul E

1BigPea
02-05-2010, 1:30 PM
I can't stand the Brady's...they just get me so hot under the collar.


Email sent as well...

Solidsnake87
02-05-2010, 2:36 PM
lol. Go starbucks! I hope they don't give in :)

thomasanelson
02-05-2010, 2:45 PM
LA Times has picked up the story...with a Pinko vibe.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/02/antigun-group-wants-starbucks-to-prohibit-customers-from-openly-carrying-guns-in-stores.html

greasemonkey
02-05-2010, 3:24 PM
I guess it's not as badly slanted as I thought it'd be...with how much she kept repeating brady this, brady that, brady brady brady, I think she's trying to get a date with a brady.

That Times article is even more reason to send an email supportive of Starbucks 'not taking a stance' and deferring to State/Federal Law.

383green
02-05-2010, 3:48 PM
Personally, I think that it would make the most business sense for Starbucks to avoid taking sides on any controversial non-coffee-related topics. Whichever side they chose, they would alienate some customers. So if there's no particular reason for them to take a side (whether a business reason, or it's just something they feel strongly enough about), they're probably better off just dodging the issue entirely.

Based on the responses from them that I've seen quoted so far, it appears to me like they're just trying to stay out of the issue. Even though I'm skeptical that their corporate politics would be at all pro-gun, I'll be perfectly satisfied if they simply refuse to take a public stance on this issue. I don't expect everybody to agree with me, and even if SBUX does disagree with me on 2ndA issues, that doesn't need to affect my desire to do business with them as long as they don't take actions which directly impact me. I have a number of friends who disagree with me strongly on various issues, but that doesn't get in the way of our friendships as long as we keep the disagreements out of each other's faces.

Incidentally, one of my non-pro-gun friends has been debating with me in the comments under my Facebook posting on this topic. I hope this debate won't hurt our friendship, but if it does, then that's what I get for bringing the topic up in front of a varied audience.

Shotgun Man
02-05-2010, 4:29 PM
GD it! I went to CPK yesterday. Never again.

I cannot wait to act like a victim when my co-workers ask me why I won't eat there.

HUTCH 7.62
02-05-2010, 4:32 PM
That made me want to puke.

The Brady's make me wanna puke all together:mad:

Grumpyoldretiredcop
02-06-2010, 12:45 PM
My message to Starbucks via their corporate website:

Dear Sirs,

It has come to my attention that the so-called "Brady Campaign" is attempting to pressure Starbucks in regards to its policies on customers who legally carry firearms.

I am a retired law enforcement officer, a veteran of 20 years' service to my community. I, like many retired law enforcement officers, have to right to carry a concealed weapon by operation of law.

Were Starbucks to post signage prohibiting the legal possession of firearms on Starbucks' properties, I would not be able to enter your stores without disarming myself. At that point, despite being a long-time customer of Starbucks, I would not be willing to patronize your stores and purchase your products. Please do not give in to the unreasonable demands of the "Brady Campaign"!

CA_AR-15_925
02-06-2010, 1:27 PM
I went on the Brady website for the first time just to see for myself what they had to say and I can't believe the crap that is on there. They keep saying gun violence. from website- gun violence in America tell a clear story.* We make it too easy for dangerous people to get their hands on guns.*". That tells me America has a damn problem with dangerous people not guns. They are so quick to put guns in the spotlight when it's the criminals who are the problem. GO AFTER THE DAMN CRIMINALS!!!! All that's going on is that they are trying to get the guns out of lawful americans with stupid new laws that the criminals don't care about anyway. It's sad that some people just don't get it in the real world. Any comments

Swiss
02-06-2010, 1:58 PM
Dear Starbucks Board of Directors,

I commend you on permitting Open Carry advocates to assemble and socialize at your establishments. While I don't necessarily agree with the group's methods, I'm glad to see that their freedom to exercise their lawful rights remains undiminished at your stores.

Thank you for not bowing to the pressure and intolerance of special interest groups like the Brady Campaign. Until now I've been the customer of another local coffee retailer, who recently abandoned their anticonformist and individualist roots to surrender to the demands of these Washington lobbyists.

Just as Starbucks places great emphasis on conducting business in an ethical manner, I too consider the integrity of the businesses that I frequent. I'm pleased to say that Starbucks has demonstrated its moral fiber and I look forward to enjoying your coffees for years to come.

Sincerely,

Xxxx Xxxxxxxxxx

kap
02-06-2010, 2:26 PM
The Brady FAQ is ridiculous.

Q. Why is open carry a problem?

A. More and more gun owners, seeking to “make a statement” about their right to have a gun, are openly carrying guns, particularly pistols and other handguns, in public places like restaurants and coffee shops, as well as to political events like town hall meetings.

For example, in the summer of 2009, a man stood outside the venue of a Presidential appearance on health care reform in New Hampshire with a pistol openly strapped to his thigh (Murray, 2009). A dozen people openly carrying guns were among the protestors outside the convention center in Phoenix where the President was giving a speech, including one who walked around with an AR-15 assault rifle strapped to his back (Associated Press, 2009). Groups of gun owners also have begun gathering at restaurants and coffee shops, with their handguns openly displayed.

The open display of firearms in public places is inherently threatening and intimidating, and poses risks to those nearby, to law enforcement and to the community. For example, when open carry has occurred in retail stores, other customers quickly become alarmed and the police often are called to the scene, creating a volatile and potentially dangerous situation. As a Sheriff’s Lieutenant in California put it, “Open carry advocates create a potentially very dangerous situation,” because when police respond to a “man with a gun” call, they have no idea what the intentions of the gun carrier may be and “the result could be deadly” (San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office, 2010).

Everyone should have the right to sit in a coffee shop or a restaurant with their families, including their children, without being confronted with the threatening presence of openly-displayed guns.

Basically they are saying that people's overreaction to someone else exercising their rights creates an issue. Left alone open carriers would not be a problem. Seems to me the people who are overreacting are the problem.

hoffmang
02-06-2010, 3:31 PM
Had to fix it for them with a little 1960's wayback machining:

Q. Why are black people a problem?

A. More and more black people, seeking to “make a statement” about their civil rights, are openly walking about in public places like restaurants and coffee shops, as well as to political events like town hall meetings.

For example, in the summer of 2009, a black man stood outside the venue of a Presidential appearance on health care reform in New Hampshire. A dozen black people were among the protestors outside the convention center in Phoenix where the President was giving a speech, including one who walked around with an angry look on his face (Associated Press, 2009). Groups of black people also have begun gathering at restaurants and coffee shops, with their skin openly displayed.

The open display of black people in public places is inherently threatening and intimidating, and poses risks to those nearby, to law enforcement and to the community. For example, when black people shop in retail stores, other customers quickly become alarmed and the police often are called to the scene, creating a volatile and potentially dangerous situation. As a Sheriff’s Lieutenant in California put it, “Civil rights activists create a potentially very dangerous situation,” because when police respond to a "walking while black" call, they have no idea what the intentions of the black activist may be and “the result could be deadly” (San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office, 2010).

Everyone should have the right to sit in a coffee shop or a restaurant with their families, including their children, without being confronted with the threatening presence of black people.

:rolleyes:

-Gene

HowardW56
02-06-2010, 3:35 PM
From NBC Los Angeles website....


http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local-beat/Anti-gun-Group-Targets-Starbucks-83724877.html

wildhawker
02-06-2010, 5:04 PM
1960 version: Blacks
2010 version: Guns

Had to fix it for them with a little 1960's wayback machining:

:rolleyes:

-Gene

sideshowhr
02-06-2010, 6:47 PM
From NBC Los Angeles website....


http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local-beat/Anti-gun-Group-Targets-Starbucks-83724877.html

Anti-gun group urges Starbucks to restrict customers' weapons

opening statement.

so according to the media:

firearm = weapon

machine gun/assault rifle = semi-automatic self loading rifle

.50 bullets = heat seeking

... anyone care to add to the list?

SixPointEight
02-06-2010, 7:15 PM
Here's what I sent:

I would like to thank you for standing up to the Brady Campaign's pressures for your company to ban guns from Starbucks' premises.

My girlfriend and I frequent your business and enjoy your coffee products, I would hate to have to take my business elsewhere if you enacted policies similar to Peet's and California Pizza Kitchen, neither of which will be receiving my patronage anymore.

I will continue to encourage my friends and family to continue purchasing from Starbucks locations as long as you continue to support our constitutional rights.

SixPointEight
02-06-2010, 7:16 PM
opening statement.

so according to the media:

firearm = weapon

machine gun/assault rifle = semi-automatic self loading rifle

.50 bullets = heat seeking

... anyone care to add to the list?

Barrel shroud: that shoulder thing that goes up

jdberger
02-06-2010, 7:37 PM
Here's a pretty interesting comment from the LAT article:

Starbucks should follow Peet's lead and bar weapons from its restaurants unless carried by law enforcement. Not only is it Constitutional for Starbucks to bar weapons from its property but it is good business.

Even if the Supreme Court determines that the 2nd Amendment is incorporated by the 14th Amendment and applies to the states, the 2nd Amendment will not apply to people and private businesses who choose to bar them from property they possess. The 14th Amendment only applies to "state actors."

Although I believe everyone has a right to own a gun, I think business do the right thing by barring weapons from their establishments. Guns are inherently intimidating and threatening. Even if 99% of these guys (75+% of the open carry groups probably consist of men) are carrying unloaded guns, the average customer will not know that. Moreover, just because you carry a gun does not mean you know how to maintain or operate it. That doubly adds to the threat or intimidating nature of these guys' actions.

Moreover, the threat of criminals attacking, robbing, or raping you is vastly overstated. The majority of us go through life without ever becoming the victim of crimes against the person. Most murders are committed by people the victim knows. Robbery does not require a gun and is most often committed without one, although a gun does make it more convenient. This is even the case in places like California (where I live) that make it difficult to get a concealed weapons permit.

Here are the notices given by Peets and CPK

Peets: "While Peet's Coffee & Tea respects and values all individuals' rights under local, state and federal laws, our policy is not to allow customers carrying firearms in our stores or on our outdoor seating premises unless they are uniformed or identified law enforcement officers. Like most other private businesses, particularly retail establishments, we believe this policy is in the best interests of all of our customers, regardless of their personal beliefs. In no way does this policy conflict with or discriminate under the law, and it does not take a position on the law."

CPK: "CPK does not allow guests other than uniformed officers to display firearms in our restaurants. CPK is a family oriented restaurant and the comfort and well being of our guests is a top priority. We are concerned that the open display of firearms would be particularly disturbing to children and their parents."

I would like to add that law enforcement, at least in urbanized California, does not encourage open carry.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25277908/San-Mateo-County-Warns-Against-Open-Carry

"CAUTION
Open carry advocates create a potentially very dangerous situation. When police are called to a “man with a gun” call they
typically are responding to a situation about which they have few details other than that one or more people are present at a
location and are armed. Officers may have no idea that these people are simply “exercising their rights.” Consequently, the law
enforcement response is one of “hypervigilant urgency” in order to protect the public from an armed threat. Should the gun
carrying person fail to comply with a law enforcement instruction or move in a way that could be construed as threatening, the
police are forced to respond in kind for their own protection. It’s well and good in hindsight to say the gun carrier was simply
“exercising their rights” but the result could be deadly. Simply put, it is not recommended to openly carry firearms."

San Mateo County Sheriff’s Office
Lt. Ray Lunny, Public Information Officer
650-363-4049
Release Date: January 14, 2010

Most county sheriff and large police departments have issued similar alerts regarding the danger posed by more people openly carrying guns.


Posted by: dfb | February 05, 2010 at 04:07 PM


The guy seems to be looking at some pro-gun sites to get his facts.

Hopi
02-06-2010, 7:48 PM
opening statement.

so according to the media:

firearm = weapon

machine gun/assault rifle = semi-automatic self loading rifle

.50 bullets = heat seeking

... anyone care to add to the list?

as Msage pointed out...you can add this to the list:

"Black guy with an AR-15" = "Redneck with machine gun"

microwaveguy
02-06-2010, 8:03 PM
From the LA times Peets: "While Peet's Coffee & Tea respects and values all individuals' rights under local, state and federal laws, our policy is not to allow customers carrying firearms in our stores or on our outdoor seating premises unless they are uniformed or identified law enforcement officers. Like most other private businesses, particularly retail establishments, we believe this policy is in the best interests of all of our customers, regardless of their personal beliefs. In no way does this policy conflict with or discriminate under the law, and it does not take a position on the law."

........and this is a SUPRISE to anyone here .......... Peet's headquarters is Berkeley :(

patsline74
02-06-2010, 8:12 PM
Don't know if anybody's seen this yet, but let's blow way past their 1000 signature goal.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/starbucks-freedom-of-choice

.454
02-07-2010, 8:45 AM
Hello,

Just a quick note from a loyal Starbucks customer to thank you for NOT caving in to the Brady Center anti-Second Amendment intimidation tactics.
Thank you for respecting our Constitution and all civil liberties protected by it, including the right to keep and bear arms.

Best regards,
xxxxxx
Law abiding gun owner and Starbucks customer

GrizzlyGuy
02-07-2010, 10:11 AM
as Msage pointed out...you can add this to the list:

"Black guy with an AR-15" = "Redneck with machine gun"

You mean this black guy with an AR-15? :D

63GiXzpfGhA

chuckles48
02-07-2010, 11:08 AM
Had to fix it for them with a little 1960's wayback machining:



:rolleyes:

-Gene

Had exactly that thought. ;>

SixPointEight
02-07-2010, 1:42 PM
Don't know if anybody's seen this yet, but let's blow way past their 1000 signature goal.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/starbucks-freedom-of-choice

I think the news story said 15000 signatures, I think that number is vastly overstated.

Also, the article that said that the risk of attack is low, that's true, but as long as theres SOME risk we should be allowed to defend ourselves. Theres a REALLY low risk of being struck by lightning, but I don't see these yahoos playing golf in thunderstorms

HUTCH 7.62
02-07-2010, 5:35 PM
Starbucks told the bradys to 'F'off according to the San Jose Mercury News

tombinghamthegreat
02-07-2010, 6:07 PM
I think the news story said 15000 signatures, I think that number is vastly overstated.


Not surprised. Nader could get more signatures advocating gay horse sex to save the world.:rolleyes:

Colt-45
02-07-2010, 6:14 PM
Under the law, Starbucks has the right to adopt a gun-free policy, with an exception for uniformed police officers. Such a policy can easily be implemented in most cases by putting up signs at store entrances.

-Brady Campaign


Under the law, Starbucks also has the right to adopt a PRO GUN POLICY:D

If I were Starbucks I'd sue the brady bunch for altering the Starbucks logo.;)

chrisw
02-08-2010, 10:25 AM
Starbucks told the bradys to 'F'off according to the San Jose Mercury News

That's what i thought too until i saw this:

http://www.examiner.com/x-25069-Cheyenne-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m2d6-Starbucks--Not-so-fast

QUOTE: "It would appear that Starbucks is taking a clear path to ban firearms in Wyoming locations."

HUTCH 7.62
02-08-2010, 10:41 AM
Don't know if anybody's seen this yet, but let's blow way past their 1000 signature goal.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/starbucks-freedom-of-choice

http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_14343847?source=email&nclick_check=1