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ten-tenths
01-10-2006, 1:45 AM
building up my first AR-lower with a RRA parts kit and was breezing through until now. i am stuck trying to push the hammer retaining pin through the reciever/hammer. the metal wire/pin inside the hammer seems to be blocking the retaining pin from going through... the manual says i should lightly tap it but even with light tapping, there seems to be not enought space for the pin to squeeze through... any help will be greatly appreicated.

Jon
01-10-2006, 2:05 AM
This may help:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782

ten-tenths
01-10-2006, 2:13 AM
yep i was looking at that site but they say to tap it lightly.. i tried, but the pin still does not want to go thru. i am tempted to smash it thru with a hammer:)

BigMac
01-10-2006, 5:33 AM
Get out the smallest hammer you can find. I mean a toy looking hammer and tap it. You should not have to FORCE anything.

TonyM
01-10-2006, 5:37 AM
Yep,

I use a shop rag to cover the lower and the pin to protect the finish, then give it a couple quick light taps with a hammer, it should go right in.

Taz77
01-10-2006, 6:36 AM
the metal wire/pin inside the hammer seems to be blocking the retaining pin from going through...

i don't have a hammer in front of me, but i'm pretty sure there shouldn't be any spring inside the hole for the hammer. the only spring i'm aware of goes on both sides of the hammer, and around the hole, not in it...

edit: ok, i was wrong. the pin inside mine is barely noticeable unless i look at it a certain angle. looking at it from where the pin slides in, the pin is less noticeable.

Fjold
01-10-2006, 7:00 AM
The legs of the hammer spring should be hooked over the top of the trigger assembly and resisting you as you try to push the hammer into position to get the the holes to line up to put the pin in.

glock_this
01-10-2006, 7:02 AM
i don't have a hammer in front of me, but i'm pretty sure there shouldn't be any spring inside the hole for the hammer. the only spring i'm aware of goes on both sides of the hammer, and around the hole, not in it...

actually, I think there is. what it is is that there is a groove in the hammer retaining pin (actually 2 groves, but 1 is more center) that the "spring inside the hole" sits down on top of if I recall. I did this just recently, with an RRA National Match 2 Stage Trigger, and had a VERY similar issue. I used a hole punch all the way thorugh, then set the pin on the hole and started to push in the pin as I extracted the punch from the other side and at the very end, I DID have to do a bit of tapping to set it home. Nevertheless, it should go through with light tapping. believe it or not, I used a meat tenderizing hammer (light compared to a regular home hammer) to tap on the punch.

glock_this
01-10-2006, 8:55 AM
Bravo. Good observation for beginner. Smart ues of the punch.

The RRA 2-Stage trigger group should come with slightly oversize diameter pins that are somewhat tight in the trigger and hammer pin holes.

Standard diameter pins (0.154" dia) can often be inserted by hand pressure. You may see some rotation when you pull the trigger to release the hammer. This is OK (and why I suggest soaking the lower in lube before assembly then wiping the excess off the exterior surfaces). The "J" spring engages the center groove of the pins. The legs of the hammer spring should engage the grooves on the trigger spring, thereby preventing the trigger pin from "walking" out..

thanks.

BTW, my issue more is that when I put in the National Match 2 Stage Trigger and hammer there seems to be a binding issue when I slide the actual hammer retainer pin in. That is, if I slide a punch into the hole that holds the hammer retaining pin and test operate the hammer, it operates perfect (smooth and fires forward strong, fast, easy). BUT, when I put in the actual hammer retaining pin, it binds/tightens up the action on the hammer (maybe the spring pushing against the lower walls) making it barely able to allow the hammer to come forward and fire. It seems to be getting looser/better as I lube it play with it - but still is not as strong as if no pin is in and it just rotates on a smaller diameter punch. Why? is this due to the slightly larger diammeter pin? will it get better?

ten-tenths
01-10-2006, 7:28 PM
thanks all for your help! i'm just glad we have a board like this for everyone to share info with.

sned45
01-10-2006, 8:41 PM
I'm looking for some different ideas so I'm wondering how you plan on attaching the magazine?

ten-tenths
01-10-2006, 9:53 PM
i bought a kit that comes with an allen wrench, a small plastic magazine catch button that allows for a nut to be used to hold/release the magazine. its seems to be very sturdy and really easy to use. not even worth it at this point to attach the spring loaded magazine catch button.:D

ten-tenths
01-10-2006, 9:59 PM
thats the one.. i got mine from TEN PERCENT. (freeplug)

glock_this
01-10-2006, 11:16 PM
thanks all for your help! i'm just glad we have a board like this for everyone to share info with.

+100 on that

glock_this
01-10-2006, 11:19 PM
i bought a kit that comes with an allen wrench, a small plastic magazine catch button that allows for a nut to be used to hold/release the magazine. its seems to be very sturdy and really easy to use. not even worth it at this point to attach the spring loaded magazine catch button.:D

hey, I have been wanting to see one installed. The company does not even have a photo to email to me. SO, can you take a more heads on, clearer pciture of it installed and post it. this product came up in another post a few days ago and I am dying to see it installed. I want to keep the 'stock' appearance of the AR, so want to see how it looks installed

ten-tenths
01-11-2006, 7:18 AM
yep no prob.. the plastic magazine catch just slides in and out and is secured by their lugnut. here ya go.

glock_this
01-11-2006, 7:27 AM
yep no prob.. the plastic magazine catch just slides in and out and is secured by their lugnut. here ya go.

thanks - that photo helps to see that the nut sticks out, I thought it might slide into the button (making the hole in the button bigger round) so it is more flush. BTW, I am still just so stunned that this would meet the CA law for a CA legal lower setup and a 'fixed magazine'. I could take that hex out so fast and slap in a new, full 30rnd mag, in a matter of seconds. the hex just seems too conveniant and easily removeable. not complaining, just surprised about that.

Sundowner
01-11-2006, 8:12 AM
"I could take that hex out so fast and slap in a new, full 30rnd mag, in a matter of seconds. the hex just seems too conveniant and easily removeable. not complaining, just surprised about that."

Stop and think about that for a minute. First, you would have to replace the original mag release before you could "slap in" a loaded standard-capacity mag and that is going to take a whole lot more than a matter of seconds. Second, I'm sure that DOJ has thought of that already and, if not, your thread will surely point them in the right direction. They will surely disallow such "convenient" devices in future. (Please think before posting.)

glock_this
01-11-2006, 8:38 AM
"I could take that hex out so fast and slap in a new, full 30rnd mag, in a matter of seconds. the hex just seems too conveniant and easily removeable. not complaining, just surprised about that."

Stop and think about that for a minute. First, you would have to replace the original mag release before you could "slap in" a loaded standard-capacity mag and that is going to take a whole lot more than a matter of seconds. Second, I'm sure that DOJ has thought of that already and, if not, your thread will surely point them in the right direction. They will surely disallow such "convenient" devices in future. (Please think before posting.)

1. from my understading in talking/emailing with the company weeks ago - the original mag catch, and spring stay in place, you just use their button/spacer and hex and screw it on to your in place mag catch, and spring, SO your claim that "you would have to replace the original mag release before you could "slap in" a loaded standard-capacity mag and that is going to take a whole lot more than a matter of seconds" is not true - do some research on that, if not, I can provide the email from them 2. best do a search on these Forums as this product has been discussed before, so not shedding light on anything new here my friend 3. "(Please think before posting.)" pleeez - that argument that one just enligntened the DOJ about something they did not know about is so weak, it is laughable. it is their job. I am (or anyone else discusing this product) divulging nothing new to them. if some newbie like me can figure out it's uses in 3 minutes, they surely had it done in a matter of seconds. I do not buy into that scare tactic logic. 4. is it not best to dicuss this stuff ina publc forum, where those mroe expert than us can chime in and possibly save you a whole lot of grief by using a product that could be a no, no?

TonyM
01-11-2006, 8:43 AM
1. from my understading in talking with the company weeks ago - the original mag catch, and spring stay in place, you just use their button and hex and screw it on to your in place mag catc, and spring, SO no need "to replace the original mag release before..." as it is already there - do some research on that 2. best do a search on these Forums as this product has been discussed before, so not shedding light on anything new here my friend 3. "(Please think before posting.)" pleeez - that argument that one just enligntened the DOJ about something they did not know about is so weak, it is laughable. it is their job. I am (or anyone else discusing this product) divulging nothing new to them. if some newbie like me can figure out it's uses in 3 minutes, they surely had it done in a matter of seconds. I do not buy into that scare tactic logic.

Your understanding is wrong. The spring is not installed with that kit.

Before you tell someone else to search, look back at some of your posts in the last month and think about what advice you are giving and the experience you have.

glock_this
01-11-2006, 8:54 AM
Your understanding is wrong. The spring is not installed with that kit.

Before you tell someone else to search, look back at some of your posts in the last month and think about what advice you are giving and the experience you have.

so, though I was told different when calling them direct on 1/2/06, you might be correct that the 'spring' is removed - but the mag catch does stay in place, but does that drastically change the effort/speed it would take to unhex, add spring, rehex?

also, I was written this email by them on 1/2/06 as well "The button and spring are removed from the magazine catch. The Delrin spacer is inserted into the cavity. The spacer is flush with the side of the receiver. The magazine catch is placed back into the receiver, it goes through the spacer and has exposed threads past the face of the receiver." so, in reading this email, it does sound as though the spring is not put back in allowing for extra thread to be exposed - but the original mag catch is still in place. HOWEVER, this is not in line with what I was told when I called on the phone, but I do not have a tape of the phone call mentioning the spring as I do the email copy so it appears I misspoke about the spring, but think/hope the greater point still stands.

TonyM
01-11-2006, 9:06 AM
Glock_This,

All I am saying is, I keep seeing you post about things you have not used or seen and only read about. I personally have more than a couple of the kits in question. It's not quite as easy as you claim. If installed the "legally safe" way you would use loctite on the bolt.

Making claims like you did just look, well, like you're trying to break the law. There's no need for that kind of talk as we're already controlled by people that think that everyone thinks like what you said. They love to believe that anyone that enjoys firearms are just a bunch of criminals looking to break the law.

It's our responsibility to not live up to their expectations.

glock_this
01-11-2006, 9:18 AM
Glock_This,

All I am saying is, I keep seeing you post about things you have not used or seen and only read about. I personally have more than a couple of the kits in question. It's not quite as easy as you claim. If installed the "legally safe" way you would use loctite on the bolt.

Making claims like you did just look, well, like you're trying to break the law. There's no need for that kind of talk as we're already controlled by people that think that everyone thinks like what you said. They love to believe that anyone that enjoys firearms are just a bunch of criminals looking to break the law.

It's our responsibility to not live up to their expectations.

point made - at times I get excited and over-zealous. I think we all post about products we have seen, used, not seen, not used, want to see, want to use. I personally called them and emailed them and got 2 answers it appears (1 on phone, 1 on email). I have had emails and PMs with others about the product, so though I made a mistake about the spring (50% error), it was with good intentoins and based on a pretty good cross-section of information from more than 1 source. but, the spring comment was wrong.

that being said, i am not sure how you jump from that error to saying "Making claims like you did just look, well, like you're trying to break the law. There's no need for that kind of talk as we're already controlled by people that think that everyone thinks like what you said" about me? I am trying to get to the bottom of the usefulness of this product in a strict CA enviornment. in doing so, maybe saving newbies like me (and others) from making a mistake with potential heavy ramifications. the funny thing is, I am not sure how my comments or questions lead you to believe I am acting like I'am "trying to break the law." - a logical person will look at both sides of the issue, raise relevant questions about the pros and cons, make a decision. none of that process should lead one to believe I am "trying to break the law." - if anything, I am trying to avoid doing so, so hashing this out in a public forum, with those more knowledgable than me, helps get the facts out and strives to make this happen as you said: "It's our responsibility to not live up to their expectations."

Paradiddle
01-11-2006, 10:47 AM
You really should delete all your suppositions before the wrong people read this.

I have those kits at home as well. It requires the tool to remove the magazine.