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ac427cpe
02-03-2010, 8:57 AM
Makes me want to move back :\



Push is on to ease Arizona's gun laws

214 comments by Alia Beard Rau - Feb. 3, 2010 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

Arizona has always held tightly to its legacy as part of the gun-toting Wild West and a protector of individual rights.

This year, the state's Republican governor and a conservative Legislature may continue that tradition by giving Arizonans some of the least-restrictive weapons laws in the nation.

This session, state lawmakers have proposed more than a dozen bills on expanding rights to carry and use guns and knives.

The proposed laws would allow people to carry concealed weapons without a permit, end requirements that guns manufactured and kept in Arizona be registered, and allow university professors to carry guns on school grounds.

Although the number of bills on the subject is not unusual, weapons-rights supporters believe this year - with a conservative governor, a Legislature sympathetic to their cause and more freedom to address issues other than the budget - may be their year to lift many limits. It also is an election year, and gun rights have always been a popular campaign platform among conservatives.

"Arizona is very gun-friendly, and we've made a lot of progress over the past probably 10 to 12 years," weapons-rights lobbyist Todd Rathner said. "But, right now, the Legislature and the governor are favorable to a pro-Second Amendment agenda, so we're trying to accomplish as much as we can."

Weapons advocates are so optimistic about their chances this year that a knife-rights advocacy group hopes to use Arizona to launch a national effort to give state Legislatures exclusive authority over local governments to regulate knife use.

The efforts won't be without opposition.

Sen. Meg Burton Cahill, D-Tempe, said some of the legislative efforts could hurt the state economically.

"These laws are not going to be seen as friendly to business, friendly to children and good for the economy of Arizona," she said. "This is a very critical time, and we are turning people away from Arizona, making them more fearful of coming to the Wild West."

ac427cpe
02-03-2010, 8:58 AM
more

Gun-friendly state
Then-Gov. Janet Napolitano, a Democrat, vetoed at least a dozen weapons bills that crossed her desk during her seven years in office, all of which would have loosened gun restrictions. In 2005, Napolitano rejected a bill that would have allowed patrons to carry loaded guns into bars and restaurants. In 2008, she also vetoed a bill that would have allowed people to have a hidden gun in vehicles without a concealed-carry permit.

In January 2009, Napolitano resigned to become U.S. Homeland Security secretary and Republican Secretary of State Jan Brewer became governor. Lawmakers quickly proposed weapons legislation, and Brewer began signing it.

During her first year in office, Brewer signed a bill allowing loaded guns in bars and restaurants, as well as another that prohibits property owners from banning guns from parking areas, so long as the weapons are kept locked in vehicles.

Brewer has been a supporter of Second Amendment rights over her elected career, spokesman Paul Senseman said. He said having her as governor has helped the effort in the state over the past year.

"I think last year was very productive in terms of extending the protections of the Second Amendment," Senseman said.

Brewer would not comment on specific legislation before it reached her desk.

"But it will be important that we continue to be judicious and responsible in enacting good protections for our Second Amendment rights," he said.

Testing ground
Rathner said Arizona's current political atmosphere is precisely why Knife Rights Inc. chose this time and this state to propose a bill that would pre-empt local governments from regulating knives.

Rathner for years represented the National Rifle Association in Arizona, but this year, he is lobbying for the national knife-owner advocacy group. Knife Rights, which Rathner said has a few thousand members nationwide, is based in Gilbert and was started in 2006.

"Guns have been pre-emptive for a decade, and there's been no problem with it," he said. "Knives are the next step."

Rathner said about 10 Arizona cities restrict knives, including Phoenix. Phoenix outlaws carrying knives, except for pocketknives. If the bill becomes law, Phoenix's ordinance would no longer be enforceable.

If successful, Rathner said, the group will push other states to pass the law.

Several Arizona cities oppose the bill, including Phoenix.

ac427cpe
02-03-2010, 8:59 AM
Love the last bit of logic

The Legislature

The gun measure likely to draw the biggest buzz proposes to no longer require people to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

Sen. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, is sponsoring the Senate version of the bill. He said his bill simply puts into law what Arizona and the nation's founders always intended.

"If you are a law-abiding citizen, you have a right to carry," Pearce said.

Whether they support the bills or not, legislators agree on one thing: Many of the bills have a good chance of becoming law.

Rep. Chad Campbell, D-Phoenix, said he has owned guns most of his life. He said that changing the concealed-weapon permit law moves Arizona in the wrong direction but that his opinion may not matter.

"If the Republicans want to push this through, we can't stop it. They run the Legislature, they run the Governor's Office," he said. "I'm not sure the general public wants to go back to the day when people could walk into any saloon with a firearm strapped to their hip, but it seems like the majority party does."

Rep. Andy Biggs, R-Gilbert, warned that nothing is a sure thing in the Legislature, particularly this year.

"The budget is casting such a gloomy cloud over everything that it's hard to get a read," he said.

However, Republican House Majority Leader Chuck Gray said Second Amendment rights also are a priority.

"Most of the gun issues are going to be looked at to make sure they are written correctly, but we will be very favorable toward the rights of the people," Gray said.

The largest hurdle these bills face this year, as in past years, is likely opposition from law-enforcement groups. The Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police opposes Pearce's bill.

"If enacted, (the bill) will take Arizona back to Wild West carry, with no consideration for officer safety," association lobbyist John Thomas said.

Only nine states have fewer gun restrictions than Arizona, according to a scorecard released last year by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, a gun-restriction advocacy group.

If some of the legislation is passed, Arizona will likely move lower on the list.

"You have no laws meant to reduce gun violence and protect the public, and you have an active gun lobby there that wants to do away with even the bare threshold of laws you do have," said Ladd Everitt of the Washington, D.C.-based national Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.

Two bills, one to allow concealed weapons without a permit and the other to exempt guns made and kept in the state from federal regulation, each has more than a dozen legislators backing them. If passed, Arizona would be only the third state in the nation to allow either of the looser restrictions.

Everitt called the proposal to no longer require a concealed-carry permit "crazy."

"You would have dangerous individuals and criminals carrying weapons in public," he said.

Pearce said he thinks the legislation will help make Arizonans safer.

"When you have restrictive laws, the only people you restrict are the good guys," he said. "I've never been afraid of a good citizen."

bodger
02-03-2010, 9:34 AM
The shop-worn catch-all to justify gun control:

Sen. Meg Burton Cahill, D-Tempe, said some of the legislative efforts could hurt the state economically.

"These laws are not going to be seen as friendly to business, friendly to children and good for the economy of Arizona," she said. "This is a very critical time, and we are turning people away from Arizona, making them more fearful of coming to the Wild West."


It will hurt the economy! People are scared of guns and won't come here!
Businesses will be ruined!!
THINK OF THE LITTLE CHILDREN!

Thank goodness for states like Arizona.

csarel
02-03-2010, 9:43 AM
Gotta move. Soon.

Peter W Bush
02-03-2010, 9:53 AM
Sen. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, is sponsoring the Senate version of the bill. He said his bill simply puts into law what Arizona and the nation's founders always intended.

"If you are a law-abiding citizen, you have a right to carry," Pearce said.

Finally someone gets it!!!! We've even had arguments here as to whether or not 2A means CCW without a permit. This guy nailed it!

Nose Nuggets
02-03-2010, 9:56 AM
"If enacted, (the bill) will take Arizona back to Wild West carry, with no consideration for officer safety," association lobbyist John Thomas said.

Dont officers carry guns? Dont criminals have the ability to carry concealed with or without this law?

SixPointEight
02-03-2010, 10:00 AM
Everitt called the proposal to no longer require a concealed-carry permit "crazy."

"You would have dangerous individuals and criminals carrying weapons in public," he said.

How about criminals carry with or without laws...it..never mind, we all know the argument, these geniuses just can't get it through their head. Always have thought about AZ as a viable place to live.

AJAX22
02-03-2010, 10:15 AM
A breath of fresh air......

Free America

Gotta love it

Syntax Error
02-03-2010, 10:15 AM
The shop-worn catch-all to justify gun control:

Sen. Meg Burton Cahill, D-Tempe, said some of the legislative efforts could hurt the state economically.

"These laws are not going to be seen as friendly to business, friendly to children and good for the economy of Arizona," she said. "This is a very critical time, and we are turning people away from Arizona, making them more fearful of coming to the Wild West."


It will hurt the economy! People are scared of guns and won't come here!
Businesses will be ruined!!
THINK OF THE LITTLE CHILDREN!

Thank goodness for states like Arizona.
Gotta love appeals to emotion like "think of the children!" :rolleyes:

Ballistic043
02-03-2010, 10:21 AM
who has better gun laws overall? nevada or arizona??

i want to have all those weird and wacky guns that never made it to CA.

PonchoTA
02-03-2010, 10:31 AM
I should be there in less than a couple of months, probably next month!!!!

:D

.

madhatter
02-03-2010, 11:41 AM
who has better gun laws overall? Nevada or Arizona??

i want to have all those weird and wacky guns that never made it to CA.

Arizona is a better place for gun rights, Nevada has handgun Registrations!!
You don't get stop for OC in Arizona like you do in Los Vegas!

mstlaurent
02-03-2010, 11:50 AM
You know, coincidentally, I'm driving to Prescott on Friday to look at property.

:D

halifax
02-03-2010, 11:55 AM
You know, coincidentally, I'm driving to Prescott on Friday to look at property.

:D

Been to Prescott...seems too liberal for AZ. Be carefull. ;)

bigstick61
02-03-2010, 11:56 AM
One thing I'm wondering about is with the concealed carry part if they intend to go Vermont style, or Alaska style (the latter allowing its people a means of getting reciprocity in other States). As long as most States require a permit to carry, I think Alaska has a better model for such a law (although Vermont does put the age at 16, with no ill effect, unlike Alaska).

mstlaurent
02-03-2010, 12:00 PM
Been to Prescott...seems too liberal for AZ. Be carefull. ;)

Sure you're not thinking of Sedona? That's where all the hippies live.

Aldemar
02-03-2010, 12:02 PM
I just may accelerate my retirement:auto:

Bhobbs
02-03-2010, 12:28 PM
It amazes me how liberals use emotions to blind people to the facts.

Don't allow people to enjoy their rights, think of the children. If people can carry concealed there will be shoot outs in the streets and the gutters will run red with blood.

Yet they never bring out facts and data to back up their statements.

dustoff31
02-03-2010, 2:38 PM
One thing I'm wondering about is with the concealed carry part if they intend to go Vermont style, or Alaska style (the latter allowing its people a means of getting reciprocity in other States). As long as most States require a permit to carry, I think Alaska has a better model for such a law (although Vermont does put the age at 16, with no ill effect, unlike Alaska).

If I understand the AK law correctly, it would be more like that.

You wouldn't need a permit to carry within AZ. But you would not be able to CCW in places serving alcohol, would not be exempt from the GFSZ laws, and wouldn't have anything to show another state for reciprocity.

A regular permit would still be available, and would take care of the things mentioned above.


Sen. Meg Burton Cahill, D-Tempe, said some of the legislative efforts could hurt the state economically.

"These laws are not going to be seen as friendly to business, friendly to children and good for the economy of Arizona," she said. "This is a very critical time, and we are turning people away from Arizona, making them more fearful of coming to the Wild West."

Any time is a good time to turn away people who fear armed law abiding citizens.

Ding126
02-03-2010, 4:44 PM
6 months ago I lived in that free state...( wipes a tear away )

pitchbaby
02-03-2010, 5:53 PM
One thing I'm wondering about is with the concealed carry part if they intend to go Vermont style, or Alaska style (the latter allowing its people a means of getting reciprocity in other States). As long as most States require a permit to carry, I think Alaska has a better model for such a law (although Vermont does put the age at 16, with no ill effect, unlike Alaska).

That's what I was thinking... if they don't issue a permit, how do citizens get reciprocity?

Other than that... Thank God for free America!!!

Legasat
02-03-2010, 6:05 PM
Arizona looks better all the time!

1BigPea
02-03-2010, 6:20 PM
I went to ASU...moved here to CA for the job. If it wasn't so d**n hot most of the year I would move my family back in a heartbeat. I lived there 5 years...oh the heat got me.

I'll stick here in CA for awhile and see if we calgunners can get some RKBA after McDonald.

CCWFacts
02-03-2010, 7:14 PM
"These laws are not going to be seen as friendly to business, friendly to children and good for the economy of Arizona," she said. "This is a very critical time, and we are turning people away from Arizona, making them more fearful of coming to the Wild West."

Uh, no, actually I would love to move to some state with laws like that. And me being able to defend my business, my self and my family are all things that make AZ more family- and business-friendly.

"If enacted, (the bill) will take Arizona back to Wild West carry, with no consideration for officer safety," association lobbyist John Thomas said.

Blah blah blah. We hear it all the time. Since when do criminals need CCWs to carry guns.

CCWFacts
02-03-2010, 7:16 PM
One thing I'm wondering about is with the concealed carry part if they intend to go Vermont style, or Alaska style (the latter allowing its people a means of getting reciprocity in other States). As long as most States require a permit to carry, I think Alaska has a better model for such a law (although Vermont does put the age at 16, with no ill effect, unlike Alaska).

Absolutely right. I like AK's model the best, where there is a CCW permit, but you don't need it to carry! That has advantages for reciprocity, and someday we will have a national reciprocity situation, and so that might have even more advantages then.

SDS-Ruger
02-03-2010, 7:22 PM
if there is no permit required then does that mean when i go to AZ on vacation that i could CCW and be legal since i'm not a resident of that state.

J20DB
02-03-2010, 9:04 PM
I think I'd give my left nut to have lawmakers like that in California... makes me want to move to Arizona! In my opinion, this goes beyond just gun rights. I'd love to be in a state run by people who actually trust their constituents, rather than feeling the need to babysit them.

ponderosa
02-04-2010, 7:04 AM
I think I'd give my left nut to have lawmakers like that in California... makes me want to move to Arizona! In my opinion, this goes beyond just gun rights. I'd love to be in a state run by people who actually trust their constituents, rather than feeling the need to babysit them.

"babysit" is too light a word imo.

dantodd
02-04-2010, 7:40 AM
if there is no permit required then does that mean when i go to AZ on vacation that i could CCW and be legal since i'm not a resident of that state.

It depends on the exact wording of the statute.

Dirtbozz
02-04-2010, 7:56 AM
........ In my opinion, this goes beyond just gun rights. I'd love to be in a state run by people who actually trust their constituents, rather than feeling the need to babysit them.

Arizona is still part of the United States of America. Sadly that cannot be said about California. The key phrase is "...trust their constituents".

OlderThanDirt
02-04-2010, 8:04 AM
I see a move in my future. I always liked Flagstaff.

Liberty1
02-04-2010, 8:10 AM
if there is no permit required then does that mean when i go to AZ on vacation that i could CCW and be legal since i'm not a resident of that state.

IF the bill passes, yes.

However if you didn't know, you can LOC there now or carry on a Utah license (among others) right now as a non-resident.

A couple of years ago, I enjoyed open carrying at my hotel there amongst all the Californians in town for some high school sports competition. :D

johnthomas
02-04-2010, 8:24 AM
I think I'd give my left nut to have lawmakers like that in California... makes me want to move to Arizona! In my opinion, this goes beyond just gun rights. I'd love to be in a state run by people who actually trust their constituents, rather than feeling the need to babysit them.

I'm thinking as long as your in California, all your body part will remain in tact.

GoodEyeSniper
02-04-2010, 8:45 AM
"If enacted, (the bill) will take Arizona back to Wild West carry, with no consideration for officer safety," association lobbyist John Thomas said.

:|

Officer safety.... Do you remember a day when officers used to think about the CITIZEN'S safety? Now it's just an elite club, they might try and help you out once in awhile, unless it in any way interferes with their own motives...

(obviously I have much respect for 99% of individual officers, and have friends/family who serve, speaking on the organizations as a whole, and with the Police Chiefs as figure heads)

SDS-Ruger
02-04-2010, 9:53 AM
IF the bill passes, yes.

However if you didn't know, you can LOC there now or carry on a Utah license (among others) right now as a non-resident.

A couple of years ago, I enjoyed open carrying at my hotel there amongst all the Californians in town for some high school sports competition. :D

Well i hope that bill passes then. I do know that you can open carry, how ever I prefer ccw, because I like being discreet about my choice of being armed. but thanks for the info.