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View Full Version : Ak-47 Trainer legal?


Guinness
01-08-2006, 6:46 PM
I did a search and didnt find an answer, are the .22 LR AK-47 trainers legal in CA since they arnt center fire or do the fall into the "series" of AK even though they are .22 lr?..

Thanks

eviioiive
01-08-2006, 6:48 PM
lol step away from the ak deuce deuce

Guinness
01-08-2006, 7:10 PM
You mean the AK Tweventy twu? :D

berg
01-09-2006, 9:10 PM
I did a search and didnt find an answer, are the .22 LR AK-47 trainers legal in CA since they arnt center fire or do the fall into the "series" of AK even though they are .22 lr?..

Thanks

Try this one: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=80953

Guinness
01-09-2006, 9:51 PM
This is actually what I was looking at...

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CSI&Product_Code=AKAGUN22&Category_Code=AKGUN

berg
01-09-2006, 11:10 PM
When I asked about this rifle some months ago I was told that it's built on a standard AK receiver even though the internals are different. So it's a no-go.

booknut
01-09-2006, 11:18 PM
There was a discussion some time ago here.
If I remember correctly, the concensus was NO.

I believe that even the seller will not sell these to California residents.

You can always write the CADOJ and see what they say.
I don't recall anyone doing that yet.

It's all fairly simple...
-You write out a simple letter outlining your request.
-Mail it to the Firearms Division of CADOJ
-Go on about your regular life.
-Someday in the future, you'll get a reply in writing.
-Post your letter here for everyone to see (omit your name and address from the letter you show here).

Hurry before the post office raises their rates... AGAIN! :mad:

kantstudien
01-09-2006, 11:24 PM
Hell, Turner's sells these for $350, so they have to be legal. I think they are Armscorp???

booknut
01-09-2006, 11:42 PM
Hell, Turner's sells these for $350, so they have to be legal. I think they are Armscorp???

NO, NO, NO, you're thinking of the wrong gun!

The Armscor thing (similar to their AR imitation) are vastly different from the one linked to above.

The one above IS built like an AK... a REAL AK!

It shoots .22lr and has detachable mags and LOOKS like a real AK.

:D

hope I got your attention... I just used up one of my smilies for that!

Search for a pic of the Armsor and then compare it to the one linked above sold by Centerfire Systems.

Two vastly different firearms.

saki302
01-10-2006, 12:40 AM
If Harrott's applies to aR receivers (it does), it ALSO applies to AK receivers. If the gun is SB23 complaint and unlisted, it can be possessed. According to the laws passed, if it's a .22LR, and ONLY a.22LR, it's legal. The receiver being used from an AK type rifle is irrelevent according to Harrott's if it's unlisted.

Harrott's either applies to AR's AND AK's, or it applies to neither. It's like being slightly pregnant, or a little dead.

-Dave

Guinness
01-10-2006, 5:44 AM
Interesting.. well I've got the first part of actually asking Centerfire if they will even ship to CA to start.. if they say yes then I'll work on getting the second answer of if it can be bought legal here. Im sure of the answer, but it looks so cool figured its worth a try :)

Guinness
01-11-2006, 5:16 PM
Got the response from Centerfire Systems today... and the answer is..

No, "its not on the approved CA list"...

sintax
01-11-2006, 5:30 PM
Got the response from Centerfire Systems today... and the answer is..

No, "its not on the approved CA list"...


So now there is a APPROVED list for rifles???!!??

DrjonesUSA
01-11-2006, 9:01 PM
So now there is a APPROVED list for rifles???!!??


No...just the list of banned "Assault weapons".

I read in another thread that directly on the AG's website, it states very clearly that a gun can be considered an "assault weapon" even if it is "only" a .22.

Which makes it clear now why there was that whole walther fiasco with the threaded barrels a while ago.....

Guinness
01-11-2006, 9:13 PM
I read in another thread that directly on the AG's website, it states very clearly that a gun can be considered an "assault weapon" even if it is "only" a .22.


I was looking for something like that on the AG's site but never saw it. I dont doubt its there. I've heard from others that they have seen these in gun shops IN CA for sale.. So Im not sure if this is just a Centerfire policy or a CA law..

DrjonesUSA
01-11-2006, 10:03 PM
I was looking for something like that on the AG's site but never saw it. I dont doubt its there. I've heard from others that they have seen these in gun shops IN CA for sale.. So Im not sure if this is just a Centerfire policy or a CA law..


I just looked too and couldn't find the part about a .22 rimfire also being an AW.

Bweise, I believe, was the one who posted that info, so you should ask him.

saki302
01-12-2006, 3:16 AM
A .22 PISTOL can be an AW. A .22 rifle, or any rimfire rifle for that matter is exempt- as the law clearly states an AW is a CENTERfire rifle. If it is a NAMED receiver/weapon though, it's illegal.

-Dave

maxicon
01-12-2006, 9:53 AM
So, it sounds pretty clear that this rifle, based on the AW definitions and Kasler, is legal (assuming a 10 round magazine), right?

I could see getting one of these puppies - you can never have too many .22s.

max

M14Gunman
01-13-2006, 2:05 PM
A .22 PISTOL can be an AW. A .22 rifle, or any rimfire rifle for that matter is exempt- as the law clearly states an AW is a CENTERfire rifle. If it is a NAMED receiver/weapon though, it's illegal.

-Dave

You have to be very carefull with this thought. For instance: If someone as an illegal AR-15 in california he cannot simply buy a .22 upper and magazine, slap that baby together and say it is legal because its a .22.

I think you might find yourself in court regardless of its legality.

booknut
01-14-2006, 8:34 PM
Here's the reply I got from them. I sent a follow-up asking about this "BATF Regulation(s). It's probably the one about buying a rifle that is not legal to own in your own state. I also asked about any California DOJ 'regulations' prohibiting the purchase of this rifle.
I'll let you know what they say.

From: feedback@centerfiresystems.com
Subject: Re: RE: AKAGUN22
Date: January 13, 2006 7:03:49 AM PST
To: Booknut

Dear Booknut:
We cannot sell the AK .22 trainer to residents of California because of BATF regulations.
You can view a picture of the gun at www.centerfiresystems.com.
Here is the link:
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=
PROD&Store_Code=CSI&Product_Code=AKAGUN22&
Category_Code=AKGUN

From: booknut
Date: 2006/01/10 Tue AM 03:01:34 EST
To: feedback@centerfiresystems.com
Subject: RE: AKAGUN22

Hello, I would like to know if you are selling the AK .22 Trainer to
California residents at this time?
If not, I would appreciate knowing why.
I am trying to answer a question regarding buying .22lr longarms even if they look like a real AK or AR. I am not talking about the Armscor look-a-likes.

I hope you can answer my questions, I appreciate any help you can give.

Thank you.
Booknut



Thanks,
Centerfire Systems
1-800-950-1231

shopkeep
01-15-2006, 3:04 AM
The .22 trainer in the picture may use a Romanian reciever that is on the Kasler list. It is then chambered to .22 LR with a magazine that's adapted to firing the .22 and a bolt for it. Because the reciever is likely on the Kasler list and it could be potentially converted to 7.62x39mm it is either banned or they've been harrassed by the CA DOJ like so many other companies.

Also keep in mind that many companies will not sell legal items to Californians simply because they believe bans happen so often that by the time it ships it will be banned :(. There are many out of state FFLs that won't send a Benelli M4 for this reason.

Guinness
01-15-2006, 12:34 PM
The .22 trainer in the picture may use a Romanian reciever that is on the Kasler list. It is then chambered to .22 LR with a magazine that's adapted to firing the .22 and a bolt for it. Because the reciever is likely on the Kasler list and it could be potentially converted to 7.62x39mm it is either banned or they've been harrassed by the CA DOJ like so many other companies.



That makes sence... good post.. Thanks

Guinness
01-15-2006, 12:37 PM
Here's the reply I got from them. I sent a follow-up asking about this "BATF Regulation(s). It's probably the one about buying a rifle that is not legal to own in your own state. I also asked about any California DOJ 'regulations' prohibiting the purchase of this rifle.
I'll let you know what they say.



Another good post Booknut, I can understand their being "gun" shy about shipping to CA. Its probably not worth dealing with CA DOJ...

Thanks!

saki302
01-15-2006, 8:58 PM
If it is a named weapon, it's illegal regardless of .22, pinned mag, or whatever. If it is not named, it's legal under Harrott's. Period. Once named, forever named- which is exactly what I posted. The $1000 question is, is it named by Make AND model on the Kasler list?

-Dave

You have to be very carefull with this thought. For instance: If someone as an illegal AR-15 in california he cannot simply buy a .22 upper and magazine, slap that baby together and say it is legal because its a .22.

I think you might find yourself in court regardless of its legality.