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Evo
01-31-2010, 11:04 PM
I stopped by Addax on Friday and had a chat with Chris about building me a 6.8 SPC upper for my boar hunting AR. I had originally planned on a 16" barrel but Chris (Super cool guy BTW) said I'd see a noticeable improvement going to an 18" barrel using combat loaded 6.8s. He had an example on hand and the balance and handling were superb. I'm wondering if any of you have any experiences with the Spec II "combat" or "tactical" loaded 6.8 SPC cartridges and any advice or "gotchas" I should know about?

I was surprised that the 18" barrel and 13.5" Larue rail really didn't add much weight to the rifle and it's still right at my desired 8lb weight. I'm hoping this rifle will pack most of the punch of .308 out to 300 yards and it looks like Chris and Co. can make that happen.

Flux Capacitor
01-31-2010, 11:05 PM
Get a Grendel :D:D:D:D:D:D

pyro3k2
01-31-2010, 11:28 PM
Get a Grendel :D:D:D:D:D:D

who didn't see that one coming raise your hands?

sholling
01-31-2010, 11:43 PM
I suggest stopping by 68forums (http://68forums.com/forums/index.php) and asking there.

Jpach
02-01-2010, 12:02 AM
If you dont mind the weight, go with the 18" I guess. As for the Grendel.....you should go with it IF YOU WANT A LONG *** BARREL.

BTW I suggest you start reloading. People on the 6.8 forums are getting retarded velocities from their handloads and they dont even show any pressure signs. Plus it saves $$$

C.G.
02-01-2010, 12:53 AM
If you dont mind the weight, go with the 18" I guess. As for the Grendel.....you should go with it IF YOU WANT A LONG *** BARREL.


Who didn't see that one coming?:)

If you are after pigs, you may consider either .458 Socom or .50 Beowulf.

Evo
02-01-2010, 1:08 AM
I may reload eventually, and I have a great Remmy 700 5R in .308 for the long shots. I've thought seriously about the Grendel but it really is much harder to find ammo. From what I've read the Grendel really doesn't come into it's own till 500 yards and I really don't think I can make a humane kill at those distances.

k1dude
02-01-2010, 1:46 AM
If you dont mind the weight, go with the 18" I guess. As for the Grendel.....you should go with it IF YOU WANT A LONG *** BARREL.

Jpach, you keep saying that in just about every thread discussing the Grendel and it just isn't true. I have given you the link to specs several times and you keep repeating your FUD regardless. There is very little difference between the perfomance of the Grendel coming from a 14.5" barrel all the way to a 24" barrel (usually 6% to 8% difference depending on load).

Now if the OP wants a 6.8, then he should get a 6.8. But please stop bashing the Grendel with disinformation.

http://www.alexanderarms.com/grendel_ballistics.pdf

Evo
02-01-2010, 3:28 AM
I'm fully aware that the Grendel is a superior cartridge, all things considered, but the availability of ammo is a real concern. SSA seems to have a wide variety of 6.8 SPC cartridges including a leadfree 110G Barnes combat load.
The only neat thing in Grendel is Wolf makes some cheap range ammo, but I'm stuck with Alexander Arms for the leadfree hunting cartridges AFAIK.

kblack583
02-01-2010, 7:35 AM
Jpach, you keep saying that in just about every thread discussing the Grendel and it just isn't true. I have given you the link to specs several times and you keep repeating your FUD regardless. There is very little difference between the perfomance of the Grendel coming from a 14.5" barrel all the way to a 24" barrel (usually 6% to 8% difference depending on load).

Now if the OP wants a 6.8, then he should get a 6.8. But please stop bashing the Grendel with disinformation.

http://www.alexanderarms.com/grendel_ballistics.pdf

I dont think he would be bashing if someone didn't feel the need to bring the Grendel into 6.8 discussion. Hell if you felt the need to discipline someone why wouldnt you jump on Fluxcapacitor his comment? Gotta love Kool Aid brothers.

gun toting monkeyboy
02-01-2010, 7:43 AM
Please knock off the 6.5 Grendel comments. He asked a question about 6.8. Not 6.5. I know some of you 6.5 fans are very insecure about your pet round, but the rest of us don't need to hear the same old tired arguements every time somebody mentions 6.8. We know it has a bit more power for long range shooting. We heard you the first hundred times. Move on now.

Now, as for the OP. I just got a 6.8 upper finished by Bison Armory. I am waiting on a set of scope risers to get in so I can go zero it. I was originally looking at the 16" barrel as well, but based on the ballistics, I went with the 18" instead. The balance is just fine. It is pretty close to a full-sized rifle in length, but it still balances like a carbine. The handling and pointing are just fine. Unfortunately I can't post on the accuracy yet, as I won't get to shoot it until the end of the week. But dimensionally it is a good, comfortable size.

-Mb

k1dude
02-01-2010, 11:05 AM
I dont think he would be bashing if someone didn't feel the need to bring the Grendel into 6.8 discussion. Hell if you felt the need to discipline someone why wouldnt you jump on Fluxcapacitor his comment? Gotta love Kool Aid brothers.

First of all, Fluxcapacitor gave his opinion and he said it as a joke (note the multiple smiley faces). Jpack gave disinformation. If you can't see the difference between the two......

Secondly, I don't own either caliber but both interest me. So I'm not drinking any cool aid. But I don't want to stand by when someone is continuously spreading FUD and I can call them on it.

k1dude
02-01-2010, 11:16 AM
You only loose about 36 fps from a 20" to a 16" with 6.8...

6.8x43 and 6.5 Grendel are two different fruits...

And you only lose 50 fps from a 20" to a 16" with 6.5. They aren't as different as you allude, at least within 300 yards.

The OP has a very legitmate reasons for choosing the 6.8. Ammo availability and he's pig hunting. If he doesn't care about long legs, then the 6.8 is an excellent choice as long as he sticks with SPC II chambers. Back to the OP's original question - I would personally go with a 16" since very little is lost in velocity and energy over the 18" or 20". So why go with more weight and less maneuverability if you don't have to? The only benefit to a longer barrel other than sqeaking out a few dozen extra fps, is a longer sight base if you're only going to be using irons. But if you're using an optic, I would personally choose the 16". Good luck.

gun toting monkeyboy
02-01-2010, 11:17 AM
First of all, Fluxcapacitor gave his opinion. Jpack gave disinformation. If you can't see the difference between the two......

Secondly, I don't own either caliber but both interest me. So I'm not drinking any cool aid. But I don't want to stand by when someone is continuously spreading FUD and I can call them on it.

I am against FUD. And 6.5 is interesting. But it seems like every time anybody asks anything about the 6.8, somebody feels obligated to turn into Darth Grendel...

"The power of the 6.8 is insignificant compared to the Grendel. Give in to the Grendel."

Enough is enough. The rest of us don't want to hear the same thing again and again and again. Save it for the 6.5 threads.

k1dude
02-01-2010, 11:22 AM
I am against FUD. And 6.5 is interesting. But it seems like every time anybody asks anything about the 6.8, somebody feels obligated to turn into Darth Grendel...

"The power of the 6.8 is insignificant compared to the Grendel. Give in to the Grendel."

Enough is enough. The rest of us don't want to hear the same thing again and again and again. Save it for the 6.5 threads.

Fluxcapacitor said it in jest since inevitably someone jumps in with a Grendel comment on a SPC thread and visa-versa. So he thought he'd be funny. I thought it was funny. I don't recall anyone stating "The power of the 6.8 is insignificant compared to the Grendel. Give in to the Grendel." in this thread.

PaperPuncher
02-01-2010, 11:30 AM
And you only lose 50 fps from a 20" to a 16" with 6.5. They aren't as different as you allude, at least within 300 yards.

Um...Is the link for the 6.5 ballistics correct? When I look at velocities of the 90 gr. speer from a 14.5" barrel the velocity at the barrel is 2585. When I look at the same bullet from the 24" barrel the muzzel velocity is 2880. Based on my math that is a difference of 295 fps, not 50. I would say that is significant. For what it is worth, that is pretty comparable to the velocity gains on the 6.8 out of the same barrels.

Clarification please...

Evo
02-01-2010, 11:31 AM
From most of the ballistic data i've seen if equivalent bullets and loadings are used there seems to be little advantage to either out to 300 Yards. Once you start using combat loads the 6.8 may have better short range punch, but the Grendee still has the advantage past 500.

It's funny because the Grendel was actually my first choice but after lokinginto it I just didn't want to have to scour the earth to find a box of Wolf for the range and then have it be iffy on the quality side. I've already accepted the the hunting rounds are going to be expensive, but that's true even if I went .308. IF any of you Gendel fans can point me in the direction of a reliable source of ammo I'd consider Grendel again.

Sick Boy
02-01-2010, 11:56 AM
Getting a 6.8 from Ben at Bison Amory started on the 15th. Talking with Ben, a 16" barrel is what the rounds from SSA are rated for. You will gain between 20-30 FPS at 18", but with handloads, that would jump.

I know some people are getting up to 3200 FPS with the 85-90 gr bullets. **** is crazy!!

But for the most part, if you are satisfied with the stated FPS on the factory SSA ammo, then go with the 16" barrel. If you are goons be doing some crazy handloads, step up to the 18" or 20" now and not worry about it down the line.

Have fun with yours, I can't wait for this coming fall/winter ao I can take mine to Texas to get a deer with one of my Navy buddies that lives down there!

k1dude
02-01-2010, 12:11 PM
Um...Is the link for the 6.5 ballistics correct? When I look at velocities of the 90 gr. speer from a 14.5" barrel the velocity at the barrel is 2585. When I look at the same bullet from the 24" barrel the muzzel velocity is 2880. Based on my math that is a difference of 295 fps, not 50. I would say that is significant. For what it is worth, that is pretty comparable to the velocity gains on the 6.8 out of the same barrels.

Clarification please...

Please re-read my post. No one said anything about a 14.5" barrel or a 24" barrel.

Jpach
02-01-2010, 1:20 PM
Jpach, you keep saying that in just about every thread discussing the Grendel and it just isn't true. I have given you the link to specs several times and you keep repeating your FUD regardless. There is very little difference between the perfomance of the Grendel coming from a 14.5" barrel all the way to a 24" barrel (usually 6% to 8% difference depending on load).

Now if the OP wants a 6.8, then he should get a 6.8. But please stop bashing the Grendel with disinformation.

http://www.alexanderarms.com/grendel_ballistics.pdf

Your absolutely right. The thing is that this is a 6.8 spc thread. And nobody really says anything about the guy saying "Go 6.5 Grendel" but has to say something about my comment on it when, again, this is a 6.8 SPC thread. And I would hardly call what I say bashing. 6.5 G definitely has its perks and its place under certain criteria, just as the 6.8.

And I know I was definitely being an *** in the 6.5 G thread a semi-while ago, talking about the SPC when nobody asked. That was uncool of me and I appologized, but I definitely wasnt spreading FUD. If one looks at the velocities with the SUPER HOT yet safe loads from the 6.8 and compares them to the MAX loads of the 6.5 Grendel (when comparing short bbls of course), then you will see the 6.8 does better out of short bbls. Those 6.8 SPC loads wont be found on a chart, unlike the Grendel. I posted the 68forum thread before but it seems nobody bothered to read it.

Im done talking about the 6.8 vs 6.5. This is a 6.8 thread.

k1dude
02-01-2010, 1:30 PM
Your absolutely right. The thing is that this is a 6.8 spc thread. And nobody really says anything about the guy saying "Go 6.5 Grendel" but has to say something about my comment on it when, again, this is a 6.8 SPC thread. And I would hardly call what I say bashing. 6.5 G definitely has its perks and its place under certain criteria, just as the 6.8.

And I know I was definitely being an *** in the 6.5 G thread a semi-while ago, talking about the SPC when nobody asked. That was uncool of me and I appologized, but I definitely wasnt spreading FUD. If one looks at the velocities with the SUPER HOT yet safe loads from the 6.8 and compares them to the MAX loads of the 6.5 Grendel (when comparing short bbls of course), then you will see the 6.8 does better out of short bbls. Those 6.8 SPC loads wont be found on a chart, unlike the Grendel. I posted the 68forum thread before but it seems nobody bothered to read it.

Im done talking about the 6.8 vs 6.5. This is a 6.8 thread.

Firstly, plenty was said about Fluxcapacitors Grendel post in this thread. Please re-read the entire thread.

Secondly, plenty of people read your SPC II link unlike your assertion that nobody did. People pointed out that the link provided nothing other than velocities and chamber pressures. Chamber pressures are meaningless without ballistics tables which no one in the SPC II crowd has cared to provide as of yet. And the max loads on the Grendel come no where close to the chamber pressures being pushed on the SPC II. You still continue to compare apples to oranges. And the pressures being pushed on handloads for the SPC II are going to get someone hurt. Until BC and energy tables are provided for safe loads on the SPC II, it's speculation to suggest it is outperforming the Grendel. If the ballistics are so awesome on the SPC II, how come no one has put out ballistics tables for it? It seems suspicious to say the least.

Jpach
02-01-2010, 1:31 PM
Please re-read my post. No one said anything about a 14.5" barrel or a 24" barrel.

If im not mistaken, you DID say something about 14.5" and 24" barrels. Unless if my quoting abilities are off of course

Jpach, you keep saying that in just about every thread discussing the Grendel and it just isn't true. I have given you the link to specs several times and you keep repeating your FUD regardless. There is very little difference between the perfomance of the Grendel coming from a 14.5" barrel all the way to a 24" barrel (usually 6% to 8% difference depending on load).

Now if the OP wants a 6.8, then he should get a 6.8. But please stop bashing the Grendel with disinformation.

http://www.alexanderarms.com/grendel_ballistics.pdf

k1dude
02-01-2010, 1:44 PM
If im not mistaken, you DID say something about 14.5" and 24" barrels. Unless if my quoting abilities are off of course

Wow. You need reading comprehension lessons. Paperpunchers post was a response to my post regarding 16" and 20" barrels but he mistakenly threw in 14.5" and 24" data. So then you take an earlier post of mine that was made way up the thread and use it out of context? What are you, a politician?

Jpach
02-01-2010, 2:23 PM
Wow. You need reading comprehension lessons. Paperpunchers post was a response to my post regarding 16" and 20" barrels but he mistakenly threw in 14.5" and 24" data. So then you take an earlier post of mine that was made way up the thread and use it out of context? What are you, a politician?

I was saying you did say something about it (which possibly created confusion for the other guy, nothing more). No need to be so upset. Thats the problem with the internet, nobody knows exactly what kind of tone the other is giving and it turns into a mess.

Im working out an amateur ballistic somparison btw, that was a good idea. I just gata find some 110gr 6.5 hunting bullets, and other 6.5s that match 6.8 SPC weights better so that everything is as fair as can be.

ar15barrels
02-01-2010, 2:26 PM
You only loose about 36 fps from a 20" to a 16" with 6.8...

http://ar15barrels.com/data/68velocity.pdf

I found 40fps in my testing between 16" and 18".
Note that the test results in my test were from early ammo that was never sold to civilians because it was over-pressure.
"Combat" loads are basically over-pressure loads that require a specific chamber to reduce the pressure to sorta manageable levels.

The ammo makes FAR more difference than the barrel length.
Get the 16" for it's handiness.
Don't buy an 18" just because a supplier has it sitting there already unless you are in a hurry just to buy something...

Super Spy
02-01-2010, 2:56 PM
Why not go 308? :sarcasm:

<jk> After all the normal 6.8 vs 6.5 BS I had to throw that out.

k1dude
02-01-2010, 3:57 PM
No prob Jpach. I'll be interested to see your calculations.

nicoroshi
02-01-2010, 4:03 PM
I own a 6.8 SPC 1:11.4 twist SpecII chamber AR with a 16" barrel.
I also load for it.
I normally shoot the Speer TNT 90gr (got a deal on bulk bullets), and I like it for my purposes although it may not (probably not) be heavy enough for your use on boar (save a head shot).
It's running about 2900-2950fps at the muzzle without any signs of overpressure. I have shot it out to 300 yards off a bipod, and can hold a little under 1.5MOA with it (1.43MOA with 5 shot group at 4.3") at that distance using a 3-9x40 scope.
Bullet drop with that round at that distance is right around 9" when sighted for 100 yard '0'.

With the SSA loads you intend to use I doubt there would be a significant difference between the extra 2" of barrel out to 300 yards.

So.....What I am thinking is it really depends on what handles better for you, and your purpose for this rifle. If the 18" barrel feels right or better than the 16" then go for it. If you can see the advantage of a 2" shorter barrel for handling, and it feels right then go that route.
IMHO Ballistic differences due to that 2" difference in length isn't enough to sway your final purchase decision.

PaperPuncher
02-01-2010, 4:31 PM
Wow. You need reading comprehension lessons. Paperpunchers post was a response to my post regarding 16" and 20" barrels but he mistakenly threw in 14.5" and 24" data. So then you take an earlier post of mine that was made way up the thread and use it out of context? What are you, a politician?

My bad, I just don't know how to quote multiple posts so I picked the closest one. And I was not trying to throw anything back at you, I legitimately thought you might have posted the wrong link so I asked for clarification.

You did, however, make that statement and it was wrong...just sayin'.

Sky_DiveR
02-01-2010, 5:08 PM
Let's put some of this 6.5 vs 6.8 to rest. Here are some numbers that Harrison Beene posted on the 6.5 (and 68forum) last month regarding bullet drop using factory rounds.

6.5 Grendel using Bill's max loads in a 16" barrel- zeroed at 200yds drops at 300yds. due to energy being less than 1000ft lbs 300 yds is about max for taking deer or hogs. the same temp, pressure line of sight and program used to figure all drops in both calibers.

100 Nosler--2600fps----drop 9.4/801 ft lbs
107 SMK----2545fps----drop 9.5/878 ft lbs
123 SMK----2472fps----drop 9.4/1083 ft lbs
120TSX-----2472fps----drop 9.8/984 ft lbs

6.8 SPC SSA factory ammo 16" barrel

100 Nosler--2700fps----drop 9.0/809 ft lbs
110 Nosler--2630fps----drop 9.0/939 ft lbs
110TSX-----2630fps----drop 9.5/856 ft lbs

6.8 handloads max

100 Nosler 2950fps-----drop 7.4/993 ftlbs
110 Nosler 2750fps-----drop 8.2/1040 ftlbs


As per 16" vs 18" (or even 20")... As per JPach, Nico, & Randall has mentioned above. Get whatever feels/handles better for you. There is not enough performance difference between the barrel lengths to really make a difference. THAT is what makes the 6.8SPC so good, the efficiency of the round/load in shorter barrels. And isn't that what everybody is striving for? Nobody wants to waste burning powder outside of the barrel... which equals wasted energy (makes a nice fireball/show tho).

Note: The handloads that are being posted on 68forums.com are alot more impressive than "H" listed above.

Sick Boy
02-01-2010, 5:26 PM
Good stuff Sky_DivR.

Some good info on the difference between 16" & 18" barrels from Ben at Bison Armory:

How much more velocity does one barrel length get compared to another?

6.8 SPC is very efficient in short barrels. In fact, about 98% of the possible velocity for any 6.8 SPC load is from a 16" barrel. The 18" barrel only gets about 20 to 50 feet per second more than the 16". The 20" barrel gets about 50 to 70 feet per second more velocity than the 18" barrel. These figures depend on the specific load being fired.

What barrel length should I choose?

Good question! Given the minor differnces in muzzle velocity noted above, this really comes down to personal preference for weight and feel. The 16" barrel provides the most compact and lightweight platform, while the 18" and 20" barrels give small advantages in muzzle velocity. The 18" and 20" barrels are also available with SPR profiles which are heavier than the recon profiles. Those desiring a heavier profile should go with the SPR barrels. Also, our Recon barrels are made to work with the Ops Inc 12th Model silencer. Anywone wishing to use this sound suppressor with their rifle should go with the Recon profile. The primary advantage of the Ops Inc 12 Model silencer is that it fits back 2" over the barrel, thus reducing the overall length of the rifle relative to suppressors that attach directly to the muzzle.

Evo
02-01-2010, 5:45 PM
So I'll have to use the Barnes TSX bullets since they're leadfree and I'm in Cali and actually do care about condors and the environment. According to the ballistics posted above the 120g Grendel TSX is producing 984 ft lbs @ 300Y Vs. the 110g 6.8 SPC TSX's 856 ft lbs. How much difference does 128 ft lbs of energy make to a boar? Also it seems like these are regular 6.8 SPC rounds not the Spec II rounds so I would expect the difference to close with those.

As for handling I haven't had a chance to play with a 16" upper yet, but the 18" balanced well. Of course I do like the idea of having as small a profile as possible but not at the expense of energy at POPig:84:

Sky_DiveR
02-01-2010, 6:19 PM
Perhaps this could answer some questions for ya.

Note: Bill Wilson (and family) of Wilson Combat/Tactical. He uses mostly Barnes 110gr. TSX for hogs.

Also note, alot of hogs are taken with Barnes 85gr TSX's... some pushed to crazy velocity's when reloaded.

Hogs 2009 Total = 100+

HTR-+ Hundreds- Load used Barnes TSX 85 grain hand load over 30.5 grains of Reloder 7. Also shot quite afew with SSA's powder, loaded out to 2.30"

angsniper+1

marinesg1012-+1 pig, Feb 09... 18 inch AR performance SAM-R, SSA 85 TSX combat load

BWilson-+33 - 19 hogs, mostly with 110gr Barnes TSX, TTSX or 130gr Nosler AB. 14 more taken by clients mostly using 110gr Barnes TSX
Bill Wilson- +2 180# and 270# boars WC SBR suppressed w/nightvision, 110gr TSX over 31gr AA2460

getdown- +1 One hog (sept. 09) taken with 6.8 spc. titan extreme using SSA factory 110gr nosler A.B.

Cole Donaldson +2 , two Hogs, (175# and 140# sow), 11-28-09, WC SBR 11", AAC suppressor, Night Optics D740 scope, 110gr Barnes TSX over 31gr AA2460

Kazual- +1 SE Oklahoma 11-27-09 1 Boar Hog estimated weight 250+ lbs\ Factory SSA 85 gr TSX @ estimated 75 yds. Cardinal Armory "defective" 18" barrel Stag upper/lower receivers, Briley carbon fiber forearm, RRA 2 stage trigger, A2 stock, and Leupold 3 X 9.

Cole Donaldson- +2 2 sows 140# and 160#, WC SBR suppressed w/nightvision, 110gr TSX over 31gr AA2469 11-28-09

Bill Wilson- +3 3 boars 140#, 155# and 170#, WC SBR suppressed, Trijicon 3-9 Accupoint and D740 nightvision, 110gr TSX over 31gr AA2460 11-30-09

prcharlie- +1 11/21/09 120lb sow SSA Commercial 110 PH Kotonics 16"

Bill Wilson- +3 3 boars 140#, 155# and 170#, WC SBR suppressed, Trijicon 3-9 Accupoint and D740 nightvision, 110gr TSX over 31gr AA2460 11-30-09

Bill Wilson- +1 185# boar WC SBR suppressed w/Nightvision, 110gr TSX over 31gr A2460 12-2-09

Bill Wilson- +1 200# Boar hog, WC SBR 11" w/Trijicon 3-9x40 Accupoint, 110gr TSX over 31gr AA2460 12-5-09

Ryan Wilson- +1 12-10-09 Hog/boar 190# WC 6.8 11" SBR suppressed, 110gr Barnes TSX, 31gr AA2460

Lastrites- +2 2 Hogs in 08+09, SSA Pro Hunters

Bill Wilson- +1 12-19-09 175# Boar hog, WC 6.8 SBR 11" w/AWC can, 110gr Barnes TSX over 31gr A2460

Bill Wilson- +1 12-20-09 80# boar hog, WC 6.8 SBR 11" w/Gemtech can and Night Optics D740 NV, 110gr TSX over 31gr A2460

Bill Wilson- +1 12-21-09 190# boar hog, WC 6.8 SBR 11" w/AWC can, 110gr Barnes TSX over 31gr A2460

Bill Wilson- +112-26-09 205# boar hog, Wilson Combat 11" SBR, Trijicon 3-9x40, AWC 6.8 Thundertrap suppressor, 110gr Barnes TSX over 31gr AA2460 I have never killed a hog this dead before, shot must have totally severed the spine, he dropped like a sack of Sh*t, kicked twice and was DRT. Old stinky boar with very massive and thick shoulder shields. Gonna use him for bullet testing................

Bill Wilson- +1 175# Boar hog, Wilson Combat 11" SBR, Trijicon 3-9x40, AWC suppressor, 110gr Barnes TSX over 31gr AA2460 12-27-09

Joyce Wilson- +1 180# Boar hog, Wilson Combat Recon 16", Leupold 4-12x40, 110gr Sierra PH over 31gr AA2460 12-27-09

Joyce Wilson- +1 150# Boar hog, Wilson Combat Recon 16", Leupold 4-12x40, 110gr Sierra PH over 31gr AA2460 12-28-09

babirl- +2 1) Two hogs (Sows, ~165# and 125#, dropped in tracks @~130yds.) 2) Date: 5/2/09 3) Brand of rifle: RRA 4) Load that you used: Factory - SSA 110gr TSX

Bill Wilson- +2 1-1-10 #1 192# boar hog, WC 11" SBR, 110gr Barnes TSX over 31gr A2460 #2 150# boar hog, WC 11" SBR, 110gr Barnes TSX over 31gr A2460

Bill Wilson- + 4 1-11-10 4 hogs (80# to 265#), Wilson Combat 11" SBR, Trijicon 3-9x40 Accupoint, AWC Thundertrap can, 110gr Barnes TSX over 31gr AA2460

Bill Wilson- +1 1-12-10 154# boar hog, Wilson Combat 11" SBR, Trijicon 3-9x40, AWC can DRT kill 110gr Barnes TSX over 31gr AA2460

Bill Wilson- +2 1-13-10 150# boar hog, Wilson Combat 11" SBR, Night Optics D740, Gemtec Sandstorm, 110gr Barnes TSX over 31gr AA2460
1-13-10 130# boar hog, Wilson Combat 11" SBR, Night Optics D740, Gemtec Sandstorm, 110gr Barnes TSX over 31gr AA2460

Bill Wilson- +71-25-10 160# boar, Wilson Combat 11" SBR D740 NV, 110gr Barnes TSX over 31gr AA2460
This was a somewhat exciting hunt, I stalked up on two boars fighting, as I was getting into position (kneeling on shooting sticks) from about 40yds, the fight broke up and one of the hogs came running my way, when he filled about 1/2 my NV scope and was a big fuzzy blob I figured it was time to shoot or run, so I put a round in what I believed to be the high chest area, he dropped 3 steps in front of me!!!

1-26-10 170# and 150# boars, Wilson Combat 11" SBR D740 NV, 110gr Barnes TSX over 31gr AA2460, suppressed NV is so awesome, I shot one and the other one ran 25feet and stopped confused and I whacked him too...........

Also since Sun the 24th I've shot 4 more hogs (ranging from 140# to 200#) with my Wilson Combat custom Ruger Hawkeye SBR.
__________________
Jason
Bedford County Tactical



taken from 68forums website
http://www.68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10182

Dragunov
02-01-2010, 6:23 PM
Get a Grendel :D:D:D:D:D:D

Good Idea if he doesn't mind changing mags.

Sky_DiveR
02-01-2010, 6:34 PM
Good point Sick Boy. I forgot about Ben's website.

Alot of those guys on 68 forums (ARP, Titon, SSA, Bison, Wilson, etc) know their stuff. Not to forget the guys like Paulo, HTR, Cold, Tim, etc. that are helping to develop the performance of the round.

I'm merely a novice but learning.

k1dude
02-01-2010, 6:56 PM
My bad, I just don't know how to quote multiple posts so I picked the closest one. And I was not trying to throw anything back at you, I legitimately thought you might have posted the wrong link so I asked for clarification.

You did, however, make that statement and it was wrong...just sayin'.

What did I say that was wrong? I said there's a 50 fps difference between the 16" and 20". There is nothing "wrong" with that statement. Earlier I said there's a 6% to 8% difference between the 14.5" and 24". There's nothing "wrong" with that statement. Look at the tables closer.

Sick Boy
02-01-2010, 7:17 PM
So I'll have to use the Barnes TSX bullets since they're leadfree and I'm in Cali and actually do care about condors and the environment. According to the ballistics posted above the 120g Grendel TSX is producing 984 ft lbs @ 300Y Vs. the 110g 6.8 SPC TSX's 856 ft lbs. How much difference does 128 ft lbs of energy make to a boar? Also it seems like these are regular 6.8 SPC rounds not the Spec II rounds so I would expect the difference to close with those.

As for handling I haven't had a chance to play with a 16" upper yet, but the 18" balanced well. Of course I do like the idea of having as small a profile as possible but not at the expense of energy at POPig:84:


You can use most, if not all of SSA's loads here.

Also, don't forget their 110gr Sierra Pro Hunter, which has been getting some great kills too. Ben at Bison Armory and the guys over at AR15 Performance have touted it as one of the most accurate rounds as well.

Main thing is, as long as you have a SPCII chamber, you are good for all ammo produced right now and some of the crazy over-pressured handloads upward of 3200fps.

Sky_DiveR
02-01-2010, 7:42 PM
So Cal is part of the Condor Lead-Free zone (even the Fresno area, which has no Condors is in the zone). So I figure the OP is from So-Cal and cannot use lead. None the less, from what I've read, the 85grTSX is one explosive round regardless of where you live.

Sick Boy
02-01-2010, 8:02 PM
Yeah, I think he said he didn't want to hurt the birdies.


Both the Barnes TSX (85gr & 110gr) rounds are lead-free, so those are definitely good to go.

I don't know about the Pro Hunter or the other ammo though. You could always call and see what which ones are for sure.

Sky_DiveR
02-01-2010, 8:14 PM
All the other ones have lead. Pro-Hunters are pretty accurate thru my ARP upper tho.

Sick Boy
02-01-2010, 8:21 PM
Ok, good to know. Thanks!

BLACK LION
02-18-2010, 5:14 PM
What did I say that was wrong? I said there's a 50 fps difference between the 16" and 20". There is nothing "wrong" with that statement. Earlier I said there's a 6% to 8% difference between the 14.5" and 24". There's nothing "wrong" with that statement. Look at the tables closer.

There is a 50 fps difference between the 16" and 18" for the most part and 100 fps or so from 16" to 20"... there is no real difference in fps from 12" to 16"... This also depends on the cartridge but is the general idea.

12-16= no fps gain
16-18= 50fps give or take
16-20=100 fps give or take

20" is about as long as the barrels are gonna get.

ar15barrels
02-18-2010, 5:18 PM
12-16= no fps gain
16-18= 50fps give or take
16-20=100 fps give or take

20" is about as long as the barrels are gonna get.

Wrong.
There is LOTS of gain from 12" to 16".

www.ar15barrels.com/data/68velocity.pdf

16 -> 18 gets you 40fps.
18 -> 20 gets you 40fps.
20 -> 24 gets you 40fps.

BLACK LION
02-18-2010, 5:36 PM
Wrong.
There is LOTS of gain from 12" to 16".

www.ar15barrels.com/data/68velocity.pdf

16 -> 18 gets you 40fps.
18 -> 20 gets you 40fps.
20 -> 24 gets you 40fps.

Alrighty then, can you share what numbers you have for fps gain from 12" to 16" ??? The data you posted is in the ballpark of what I just posted aside from the 20"-24" 40 fps gain...I see nothing regarding 12"-16"...

Where can one find a 24" barreled upper???

It seems clear from all the data I have read that the biggest fps gain comes from going from a 10" barrel to a 20" barrel...

Are we talking about SAMMI specs? The info I visited in the links you provide seems pretty dated???

Maybe I am just mistaken.

Sick Boy
02-18-2010, 7:18 PM
You should check out 68forums.com.

Tons of info everywhere and if you can't find it, ask someone will be able to answer pretty quickly too.


Edit: Nevermind, I've seen you on 68 before. No one could answer you there??


Alrighty then, can you share what numbers you have for fps gain from 12" to 16" ??? The data you posted is in the ballpark of what I just posted aside from the 20"-24" 40 fps gain...I see nothing regarding 12"-16"...

Where can one find a 24" barreled upper???

It seems clear from all the data I have read that the biggest fps gain comes from going from a 10" barrel to a 20" barrel...

Are we talking about SAMMI specs? The info I visited in the links you provide seems pretty dated???

Maybe I am just mistaken.

ar15barrels
02-18-2010, 9:11 PM
can you share what numbers you have for fps gain from 12" to 16" ???

Where can one find a 24" barreled upper???

It seems clear from all the data I have read that the biggest fps gain comes from going from a 10" barrel to a 20" barrel...

The more differential in barrel length, the more difference in velocity.
That should go without saying.

I made a few 24" uppers years ago, but I don't think they are otherwise available.

Yes, my testing is very old, but I was one of the first people producing 6.8 barrels and as you can see, remington dropped the pressure specs and velocities considerably before they released the commercial spec ammo.
That testing was with the early le ammo except for the last data set with the commercial ammo.

Here is a quickload simulation of Ramshot Exterminator at 54,000 PSI with 115gr hpbt bullets at 2.27" oal:

8" 2046fps
10" 2198fps +152fps
12" 2313fps +115fps
14" 2404fps +91fps
16" 2479fps +75fps
18" 2542fps +63fps
20" 2596fps +54fps
22" 2643fps +47fps
24" 2685fps +42fps