PDA

View Full Version : Give a newbee some advice on his first AK


Fedor
01-31-2010, 6:49 PM
Hi guys,

I live in Butte county and i am very interested in buying an AK. I am pretty new to this so i am trying to do as much research as possible before i get my gun. Let me give you guys some of the things i am looking for, and please give me your opinion.

budget is $1000.
pistol grip
original AK look(wood)
30 round mag blocked off to 10 (is this legal?)

Here are some guns i found.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct831.aspx

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct830.aspx

What gun would you guys recommend? Any good dealers around Butte county? What are some good online stores?

Any help is appreciated, than you.

JeffM
01-31-2010, 6:57 PM
I wouldn't buy anything from Atlantic.

They were full of hate for CA until the national marketplace for guns crashed. Now all of a sudden instead of hanging up on you they'll take your money. I'll take my $ elsewhere.

For 1k or less, I'd look to get a Hungarian SA85-M from Gunbroker/etc. There are other guns that are as good, but from other companies I don't support. There are guns out there that are cheaper, but much lower quality.

1lostinspace
01-31-2010, 7:01 PM
I would get a siaga.

I own and have owned most AK out there and Saiga are the most accurate they are built today so you are getting a new barrel new receiver and so forth not some AK kit that was made in 80's that has been raped over and over again.
Not to mention the price armsofamerica has them for under $400
You can pay Lancaster another $300 and have it converted to a 103 series.

If I could go back that's what I would have done and saved my self a fortune dealing with all these crappy AK's that cost $700-$900 and jam or brake all the time

alain209
01-31-2010, 7:02 PM
try lancaster aks.

1988
01-31-2010, 8:12 PM
Start with a Saiga... and upgrade once you've learned more about the AK world.

bballwizard05
01-31-2010, 8:16 PM
Yup +1000 for getting a saiga and having it converted. SOOO many options for how you want it to look when converted.

cal_ar_shooter
01-31-2010, 8:25 PM
I would get one of these.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct629.aspx

This is a great rifle with very nice furniture and well in your budget.
What ever you do, don't buy direct from Lancaster. They make a great rifle but very bad customer service. This is just like the milled one except it is stamped.

Atlantic are good people. They do understand our laws and are willing to deal with us now. Let them know that you are a member here and they will give you a discount.

Trendkill
01-31-2010, 8:28 PM
I just recently picked up this...an Arsenal SGL20.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/necritan/IMG_5932.jpg


I'm going to get some nice wood...probably from Ironwood Designs , and make it look kinda like this.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/necritan/SGL-21RussianRed.jpg

bigian
01-31-2010, 8:34 PM
what's the deal w/ the Arsenals?

Harley
01-31-2010, 8:43 PM
Hello and welcome, personally I'd go with a Lancaster. :)

reefer_bob
01-31-2010, 8:46 PM
I guess you have to ask what you want it for.

I have a WASR-10 from DD's ranch that I'm totally happy.

It's relatavily accurate. It's indestructable. It fires EVERY time. Great piece for like 400 bucks.

icefire
01-31-2010, 9:40 PM
A Saiga if you wanna learn and do some things yerself, an Arsenal if you want one already finished...Both are Russians fro Izhmash arsenal...

Kendo671
01-31-2010, 9:55 PM
Get a saiga and do the conversion yourself, you'll know your weapon inside out. If you can find an Aresnal SGL rifle get it. You'll get a Saiga dimpled reciever, AK74 muzzle break, kvar furniture and bullet guide.

Aleksei Vasiliev
01-31-2010, 11:06 PM
Hello and welcome, personally I'd go with a Lancaster. :)

Just don't buy a milled Lancaster.

Fedor
01-31-2010, 11:14 PM
Thank you all


reefer_bob, i want to shoot at a range. just target shooting pretty much.

Trendkill, is that a converter Saiga? And where did you buy it from?

What are some good places to get a Saiga fully done?

Do i have to buy a Saiga and then send it off to have it worked on?

Fedor
01-31-2010, 11:15 PM
Just don't buy a milled Lancaster.

why not?

IsaacGlass
01-31-2010, 11:26 PM
Get a Saiga and convert it yourself. Here's mines, total cost $800.

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww75/Isaac_Glass/Hardware/SaigaEBR2012a.jpg

Kendo671
01-31-2010, 11:30 PM
The picture trendkill posted is an Arsenal SGL 20, it's a saiga rifle converted to its original AK configuration. Heres the companys website for you to look at.
http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=17007&cat=329&page=1
http://www.arsenalinc.com/index.htm

They won't ship to CA. so if your planning on buying this you'll need a middleman FFL dealer.

If you want just the saiga rifle its pretty cheap right now at some CA. friendly dealers like DDranch,peachstate guns

http://www.ddsranch.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=277_290_388

If you look up on youtube on how to do a saiga conversion its pretty easy,as for sending to a company to convert it for you, maybe someone else can chime in, my buddy and I did the conversion ourselves in my garage.

bigian
02-01-2010, 12:04 AM
I found this series of youtube videos where a guy documents his conversion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5-z7eXzWgc&feature=related

So when everyone suggests to the original poster to do the conversion, that essentially consists of adding the stock and pistol grip to the stock Saiga rifle? Everyone mentions the 'conversion' but for someone like myself that has no idea, can someone explain the conversion, what you start with and the parts necessary to do it?

Good_Knight
02-01-2010, 12:22 AM
try lancaster aks.

second that.

Fedor
02-01-2010, 12:38 AM
So this:

http://www.lancasterarms.com/NEW%20SAIGA%20RIFLES.html

Or the one from Arsenal? They are both Saiga conv., right? Are they the same rifle?

I like the Lancaster one since it has the wood on it..

Kendo671
02-01-2010, 9:55 AM
Yes they're both converted saigas, no they are not the same rifle, they're different AK variants
I believe the lancaster is an AKM47, correct me if im wrong. The arsenal is AK74 variant.
Little differences such as:
lancaster has a nondimpled reciever,slant muzzlebreak,slant gasblock,wood furniture
aresenal has a dimpled reciever,ak74 muzzlebreak,90degree gasblock, polymer furniture.
Both are great rifles, another thing thats important is they both have bulletguides installed for using all types of AK47 magazines.

IsaacGlass
02-01-2010, 5:44 PM
CGN Google search Lancaster Customer Service

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=231196

http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&client=google-coop-np&cof=FORID%3A13%3BAH%3Aleft%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww. calguns.net%2F%3BCX%3ACalguns%2520Custom%2520Searc h%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.calguns.net%2Fimages%2Fne wcalguns.jpg%3BLH%3A100%3BLP%3A1%3BVLC%3A%23551a8b %3BDIV%3A%23cccccc%3B&adkw=AELymgVdgVpEB1vpXgv53m6scJRoVrO2WvuqyDwwGdXU4 lOAkPNMqs0873fTaPBaMogfQYBbfqyDatzM0WDnWZy0nnbeLiN mx-6s4c8WJc9c4CCp1WBM_Co&boostcse=0&q=Lancaster+customer+service&btnG=Search&cx=018149931542195181678%3Apzxbzjzh1zk

VickG818
02-01-2010, 6:09 PM
Get a VZ 58 from here. Its milled receiver plus they pay for the FFL you just pay shipping.

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/vz-58-rifles/

Sa vz. 58 Comparison to AK-47 Type Rifle with Stamped Receiver


■All vz. 58 rifles possess a milled receiver; the vast majority of AK-47s are stamped.
■Even with the milled receiver it is almost one pound lighter than a stamped AK-47.
■CNC machining on a vz. 58 receiver takes 2 1/2 hours; a stamped AK-47 receiver takes seconds to produce.
■The bolt of the vz. 58 stays open after the last round in the magazine has been fired.
■The vz. 58 can be reloaded with stripper clips while the magazine is inserted in the rifle.
■The vz. 58 has a more natural point of aim and is faster handling.
■The safety is more ergonomic making a faster first shot possible with the vz. 58.
■The ejection port is HUGE. There is no chance of an empty case getting stuck in the action of the vz. 58.
■The vz. 58 gas piston can be removed or exchanged without tools.
■The alloy magazine of the vz. 58 is half the weight of the steel AK-47 magazine. (.42 lb. vs. .84 lb.)
■The vz. 58 is striker fired unlike the hammer fired AK-47. This reduces the number of parts and possible points of failure.
By the end of the 1950s, the Sa vz. 58 military issued assault rifle had obtained the impressive combination of weight and length (6.42 lbs and 33.30 inches for fixed stock) to make this rifle the elite among military issued assault rifles of its class.

It remains the only assault rifle of its size that has achieved an empty weight of under 3 kilos

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m206/lex818420/IMG_1308.jpg

Fedor
02-01-2010, 7:18 PM
Get a VZ 58 from here. Its milled receiver plus they pay for the FFL you just pay shipping.

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/vz-58-rifles/

Sa vz. 58 Comparison to AK-47 Type Rifle with Stamped Receiver


■All vz. 58 rifles possess a milled receiver; the vast majority of AK-47s are stamped.
■Even with the milled receiver it is almost one pound lighter than a stamped AK-47.
■CNC machining on a vz. 58 receiver takes 2 1/2 hours; a stamped AK-47 receiver takes seconds to produce.
■The bolt of the vz. 58 stays open after the last round in the magazine has been fired.
■The vz. 58 can be reloaded with stripper clips while the magazine is inserted in the rifle.
■The vz. 58 has a more natural point of aim and is faster handling.
■The safety is more ergonomic making a faster first shot possible with the vz. 58.
■The ejection port is HUGE. There is no chance of an empty case getting stuck in the action of the vz. 58.
■The vz. 58 gas piston can be removed or exchanged without tools.
■The alloy magazine of the vz. 58 is half the weight of the steel AK-47 magazine. (.42 lb. vs. .84 lb.)
■The vz. 58 is striker fired unlike the hammer fired AK-47. This reduces the number of parts and possible points of failure.
By the end of the 1950s, the Sa vz. 58 military issued assault rifle had obtained the impressive combination of weight and length (6.42 lbs and 33.30 inches for fixed stock) to make this rifle the elite among military issued assault rifles of its class.

It remains the only assault rifle of its size that has achieved an empty weight of under 3 kilos

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m206/lex818420/IMG_1308.jpg

this California vz is loaded from the top only?

VickG818
02-01-2010, 7:26 PM
this California vz is loaded from the top only?

No top or bottom. Look at the link for CA rifles there are more pics. you need a tool to remove the mag.

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/vz-58-rifles/sa-vz58-california-military/

wksun88
02-01-2010, 9:40 PM
anything over 700 bucks out the door for an AK is too much IMO. Buy an Arsenal AK and have it shipped to a middle man or just buy from henderson defense.

SJgunguy24
02-01-2010, 9:53 PM
Yes they're both converted saigas, no they are not the same rifle, they're different AK variants
I believe the lancaster is an AKM47, correct me if im wrong. The arsenal is AK74 variant.
Little differences such as:
lancaster has a nondimpled reciever,slant muzzlebreak,slant gasblock,wood furniture
aresenal has a dimpled reciever,ak74 muzzlebreak,90degree gasblock, polymer furniture.
Both are great rifles, another thing thats important is they both have bulletguides installed for using all types of AK47 magazines.

The SLG20 is a Saiga with the front end work done already. Saigas are commercial guns based on the AK 100 series.
Lancasters are kit guns just like you could make at a build party. They've had some QC issues as of late but I don't own one so I won't comment.

Kit guns are built using decommissioned military guns. If you look at the internals of Saigas and any type using demilled guns there is a difference. The bolts and carriers are beefier to handle FA fire. Saigas are fine rifles and wiil serve you for years to come.
I like Saigas just because they are a good base for a project gun. Fully heat treated receivers, great looking rivets, overall nice build quality. If you have a problem you can contact http://cadizgunworks.com/, they handle all warranty repairs and BVamp is on CGN if you just have a question.

Fedor
02-02-2010, 1:48 PM
The SLG20 is a Saiga with the front end work done already. Saigas are commercial guns based on the AK 100 series.
Lancasters are kit guns just like you could make at a build party. They've had some QC issues as of late but I don't own one so I won't comment.

Kit guns are built using decommissioned military guns. If you look at the internals of Saigas and any type using demilled guns there is a difference. The bolts and carriers are beefier to handle FA fire. Saigas are fine rifles and wiil serve you for years to come.
I like Saigas just because they are a good base for a project gun. Fully heat treated receivers, great looking rivets, overall nice build quality. If you have a problem you can contact http://cadizgunworks.com/, they handle all warranty repairs and BVamp is on CGN if you just have a question.
Thanks for all the help

If I understand this right you are saying that the Lancaster gun is build from a used Saiga? Or do they use brand new Saigas and just used parts for the convertion.

IsaacGlass
02-03-2010, 11:04 AM
Thanks for all the help

If I understand this right you are saying that the Lancaster gun is build from a used Saiga? Or do they use brand new Saigas and just used parts for the convertion.

I think you misunderstood him, see highlighted quote.


Lancasters are kit guns just like you could make at a build party. They've had some QC issues as of late but I don't own one so I won't comment.

Kit guns are built using decommissioned military guns. If you look at the internals of Saigas and any type using demilled guns there is a difference. The bolts and carriers are beefier to handle FA fire. Saigas are fine rifles and wiil serve you for years to come.

ar15barrels
02-03-2010, 12:08 PM
I'm going with JeffM on this:

Xnay on the AKsay.

AKs suck.

Don't buy an AK.

Don't buy any AK parts.

Stick with ARs.

Buy AR stuff.

Don't buy any 7.62x39 or 5.45x39. It is crap. The only stuff worth shooting is Federal or Winchester 5.56.

Tell everyone you know that AK stuff is crap and they should stay far far away from it.

Period. That is my advice.

Wyseguy
02-03-2010, 12:29 PM
Try Royal Tiger Imports. They are very CA friendly, made in the US, and start at $419 - $479. I would rather own one of thes than a WASR

www.royaltigerimports.com

Fedor
02-03-2010, 1:36 PM
I think ill go with this:

http://www.lancasterarms.com/STAMPED%20RECEIVER%20RIFLES.html

#3061

The guy from Lancaster i spoke to was very nice, but the one from Atlantic was rude. Don't really care just thought ill share..

Fedor
02-03-2010, 1:39 PM
Try Royal Tiger Imports. They are very CA friendly, made in the US, and start at $419 - $479. I would rather own one of thes than a WASR

www.royaltigerimports.com

Very nice. Do you own one from them. What exactly is the AK-C rifle?

1988
02-03-2010, 4:46 PM
I'm going with JeffM on this:

You're such an AK hater .... :D

ar15barrels
02-03-2010, 5:01 PM
You're such an AK hater .... :D

I don't hide it very well do I?

djleisure
02-03-2010, 5:13 PM
I think ill go with this:

http://www.lancasterarms.com/STAMPED%20RECEIVER%20RIFLES.html

#3061

The guy from Lancaster i spoke to was very nice, but the one from Atlantic was rude. Don't really care just thought ill share..
Definitely do NOT get a Lancaster! They are having HUGE issues fulfilling orders and their customer service SUCKS! You might have talked to a nice guy there, but they disappear after they make the sale and can NOT be contacted. I know this from first hand experience and it is an ongoing (current) problem with them.

glockwise2000
02-03-2010, 5:16 PM
I would go with Lancaster.

djleisure
02-03-2010, 5:23 PM
I would go with Lancaster.

I would go with Lancaster if you never want to see your rifle.

Super Spy
02-03-2010, 5:26 PM
Saiga's are great. If you want one that looks like an AK get an Arsenal and send it through a middle man to have the BB installed, or if they go for it have them remove the pistol grip. DO NOT attach the pistol grip until you add a mag lock.

cal_ar_shooter
02-03-2010, 9:31 PM
Definitely do NOT get a Lancaster! They are having HUGE issues fulfilling orders and their customer service SUCKS! You might have talked to a nice guy there, but they disappear after they make the sale and can NOT be contacted. I know this from first hand experience and it is an ongoing (current) problem with them.

All these guys are correct when they are stating not to go through Lancaster to purchase a rifle.

They (Lancaster) make a great rifle. There customer service sucks.
I know, I bought 2 from them and was give ship dates that came and went.

Buy a Lancaster from Atlantic. They will give you a ship date that is correct.
Sorry that the person from Atlantic was rude, that is not the norm with them. I have bought a few rifles from them also and have always been very happy

xet
02-03-2010, 10:01 PM
Try Royal Tiger Imports. They are very CA friendly, made in the US, and start at $419 - $479. I would rather own one of thes than a WASR

www.royaltigerimports.com

Anyone have any experience or knowledge about these? I was going to pick up a wasr from peach guns but if this is really better I will reconsider. Thanks.

Fedor
02-04-2010, 1:55 PM
Just ordered this:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct629.aspx

I'll let you guys know how it turns out

Thanks for all the help

IsaacGlass
02-04-2010, 1:58 PM
I think ill go with this:

http://www.lancasterarms.com/STAMPED%20RECEIVER%20RIFLES.html

#3061

The guy from Lancaster i spoke to was very nice, but the one from Atlantic was rude. Don't really care just thought ill share..

Until they take your $$, then its a whole different story.

Koolpsych
02-04-2010, 3:18 PM
Anyone have any experience or knowledge about these? I was going to pick up a wasr from peach guns but if this is really better I will reconsider. Thanks.

Also interested in www.royaltigerimports.com

Anyone have any info on the guns or own one?

icefire
02-04-2010, 3:29 PM
Try Royal Tiger Imports. They are very CA friendly, made in the US, and start at $419 - $479. I would rather own one of thes than a WASR

www.royaltigerimports.com

I couldnt get them to procees anything at all, not even parts legal in CA, with a CA credit card address. This was one month ago. I dont know about them being 'CA Friendly"...Look on Saiga Forum, you will see others they would not deal with from CA...

69Mach1
02-04-2010, 5:45 PM
I couldnt get them to procees anything at all, not even parts legal in CA, with a CA credit card address. This was one month ago. I dont know about them being 'CA Friendly"...Look on Saiga Forum, you will see others they would not deal with from CA...

They may have just turned around on this. The first thing on their website is this:

California Semi-Automatic Rifle "CASAR" 7.62x39

Hard to imagine that they would not ship to CA. The only thing I would not buy from them is their IOC AK 47C receivers.

69Mach1
02-04-2010, 5:47 PM
Also interested in www.royaltigerimports.com

Anyone have any info on the guns or own one?

I don't own one, but from what I saw at Turners, they are quality builds with a nice basic parkarized finish. They're just Romanian kit builds on a US made receiver using a US barrel. Both the CASAR and the STG 2000C. Not sure if it's chrome lined.

69Mach1
02-04-2010, 7:32 PM
Try Royal Tiger Imports. They are very CA friendly, made in the US, and start at $419 - $479. I would rather own one of thes than a WASR

www.royaltigerimports.com

Turners seems to have a great deal on them right now.
http://www.turners.com/siteimages/gifads/020510ad.gif

Koolpsych
02-04-2010, 9:43 PM
Haha aw if only there was a turners closer to San Luis Obispo