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View Full Version : Have a question for the wholesalers I guess


beb1954
01-31-2010, 4:43 PM
It was an issue on Sat that an RRA lower and upper were not transferred for me after driving my arse all the way to San Diego. This had been planned out all week. The location that was going to do the transfer refused to do so saying that the RRA lower is no longer legal to tranfer here. This same location I called earlier in the week asking about doing a transfer on a lower and everything was supposed to be hunky dory... It already had the Prince 50 installed, 10 rd'r etc. Now the stock had been removed and the upper was still attached which is a big no no. Howver they could and would have been separated and that is that. But that was not that. The lower was then said to be no longer legal and still would not consider doing any transfer. Now all week long this had been planned. All week long I have seen other RRA lowers involved in deals online. But then this B.S.
I would just like to know if I can get a confirmation that the RRA lowers are not to be transferred in Ca. any longer or did I just get jerked around. I just have a really chitty feeling about the whole thing. I don't beleive that these have been added to the list. I don't know if it was a case of someone just having their head up somewhere or more. Could be wrong but I am supposed to meet someone else this week at another local FFL and do the PPT and DROS on anther RRA LOWER..
Will someone please let me know if these negative feelings of mine are for a reason or not.. Thanks....

JeffM
01-31-2010, 4:49 PM
Using full sentences would help us get a better picture of what you're asking.

If it was a RRA lower AND upper, and if it was not disassembled, then it is possible that it was one of the models banned by name. If it was one of the banned RRA models, or configured as a RRA banned model, then the shop received an Assault Weapon and would be required by law to turn it over to Law Enforcement for destruction.

AlliedArmory
01-31-2010, 5:22 PM
just as JeffM has said. "IF" the lower and upper were connected, it is considered an AW and the shop is required by law to turn it over to LE to be destroyed (assuming it is a model banned by name). If it were the OLL by itself, there would be no issue.

beb1954
01-31-2010, 6:15 PM
My partial sentences gave enough info to give the picture of the situation. It was a lower and upper without the stock attached. The seller had taken the stock off and sold it separately. I did not know that he would bring it to the shop to do the FTF PPT without removing the upper from the lower.. OKay...?
Now.. I had no control over that.. or any part of it.. more importantly that is not what the question was for. All I asked, and made it clear, was that I wanted/needed to know if the RRA lowers are now all of a sudden illegal just by themselves, completed or NOT... What else took place in the store had not a thing to do with the question. Although it was a problem at the time, but that I had nothing to do with or control over. If I would have known, I could have taken the A2 stock that I plan on running on this upper/lower, well, planned and completed it. But dude at the store still refused to so the transfer just because it was an RRA lower!! Read the original post then read this one... The Fact that I called this same place and spoke to a live person and asked directly about the transfers of a lower and mentioned that it was an RRA. I called 4 places in that area to be sure that it was not going to be a wild goose chase. It took me 2 hours one way to drive there! I was told that it was all good. The seller had supposedly done business there before... Now does that make anyone wonder anything? Or am I just too cynical for my own good?

Aside from all the sarcasm, I only want to know the info regarding the legality of the RRA lowers. (complete sentece here)
What I am asking is are the RRA lowers now not allowed to be on the OLL? I watched all week RRA's up for sale then sold but the ONE that I was going to get and DROS everyone flips out about. aside from the issue of the upper /lower without the stock on it or the two separated.. I swear this bull**** this state brings down on all of us is just too much at times.. How redicuous is it that the same gun complete is legal, uncomplete is illegal, and WhoTF know inbetween? Yeah, I'm frustrated.. This is total lunacy for us to have to go through this kind of nonsense just to be law abiding citizen.
So will someone still tell me if the RRA lowers are still legal for CA.? Please.
Excuse the rant,... or not...
thanks...

BB63Squid
01-31-2010, 6:23 PM
beb1954..

The named list can be found here (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf).

PolishMike
01-31-2010, 6:29 PM
RRA lowers are unique because they are not banned by name but by config.

Its really sketchy and I know a lot of stores that will transfer lowers but will not touch RRAs. Its up to the store.

ke6guj
01-31-2010, 6:36 PM
beb1954,

Rock River Arms is a special case in the AW regs. RRA rifles are listed by configuration, instead of the markings on the lower. So, it may be possible that the assembled firearm that you had sent to the FFL fell under the AW listings, and he felt that the removal of the shoulder stock was not enough to cause it to no longer be an AW.

The reason you see stripped RRA lowers being sold on in the marketplace is that a stripped lower isn't an AW, but if improperly assembled could potentioal become an AW. Because of that, I don't recommend RRA lowers to any of my friends. It is easier to just use a different brand of lower that we don't have to worry about falling under a "named configuration" listing.

beb1954
01-31-2010, 7:12 PM
All righty,, what the hell else can be wrong here..? How am I suppose to know one from the other? If that dude at the store is suppose to report, then why didn't he... maybe it was his buddy? hhmmm..?? There is chite going on here that is not above board. There was too much not right about yesterday.. It sure seems t me more and more like a setup...
Ya know what, what ever, the seller was acting kinda hinky I thought... just wish there was some way to get my gas money out of him.. I really wish I could say what I want to here. Point the fingers where they belong. I hate letting people get away with something when they didn't...
But I like being on here... too bad that he had to be the one selling the lower that I found. Now I got this one in my own back yard.. Hopefully this will work out but I still need an upper... Plus I need to get educated to all this AR crap... Can they make it any more difficult? Maybe it it the method to their madness to try and discourage people from guns... Good Friggen luck!
Thanks for the info guys,,,

ke6guj
01-31-2010, 7:26 PM
The legislature tried to make it difficult, they don't want you to have an AR-pattern rifle at all. But due to court cases stating that they can't just blanket ban some thing by saying "series", it opened it up for us to figure out how to comply with the law but get what we want.

Sorry that you messed up and bought an RRA rifle that the FFL was not comfortable with transfering. Next time pick a different FFL and explain exactly what you are having shipped to him. If you do this before hand, hopefully he explain what he is comfortable dealing with.

BB63Squid
01-31-2010, 7:54 PM
Maybe it it the method to their madness to try and discourage people from guns.


This is exactly what they (CA DOJ BOF) is attempting to accomplish.

You have come to the right place with regard to getting the straight skinny on the convoluted laws in CA. You will soon discover most on CGN are more than willing to assist. The others will become obvious as you have already experienced.

Cali-V
01-31-2010, 8:32 PM
The RRA listed by configurations are very generic and cover a lot of build ground... I would be very carful, based on the following, it's not too hard to build a CA AW

Standard A-2
Car A2
Standard A-4 Flattop
Car A4 Flattop
NM A2 - DCM Legal
LE Tactical Carbine

Going the RRA route, at the very least you should consider, not using a RRA upper and/or building in a non-standard caliber...

TKM
01-31-2010, 10:47 PM
Decaf.

beb1954
01-31-2010, 10:51 PM
xxxxxx screw decaf

beb1954
01-31-2010, 11:18 PM
Something that I have been told is that if the lower (RRA LOWER) has LAR-15 inscribed on the mag well area I guess, that is the lower that is legal.
Can anyone confirm this? or elaborate?

freonr22
01-31-2010, 11:42 PM
Just get a calguns lower and be done with it

ke6guj
01-31-2010, 11:44 PM
Right RRA lowers are marked LAR-15, which is off-list. However, the ban describes specif RRA configurations, so if the RRA rifle that you purchased was any ofthe following:

Standard A-2
Car A2
Standard A-4 Flattop
Car A4 Flattop
NM A2 - DCM Legal
LE Tactical Carbine

then you had an on-list AW. Most other AR-pattern firearms are only listed by the lower receiver markings, not the configuration, so that is why RRA's are not recommended by many people.

beb1954
02-01-2010, 12:04 AM
I DIDN"T purchase it... the puke at the store would not DROS it after saying he would on the phone, plus some whining b.s. too about it being sat. there were THREE dudes that were employees having a circle jerk looking for a piviot man and they sent us to the only other counter and that was full of people. The seller had removed the stock when he brought as it had been sold separately. BUT he didnt take the upper off the lower.... SO, instant AW! with and RRA lower. would not do it adn the seller then said that he made a phone call and without even asking questions, looking at it, or asking one of those palstick black 8 balls that would tell your future from the 60's, said he could not sell it... Even though I watched other RRA lowers get sold all week long on the net including CG's.
I am buying a legal RRA lower that is exactly the same as what this other guy had that is illegal.... takes all kind...
What I would like if someone can tell me if something like it exists is a doc that explains all the differet builds, pros adn cons, etc. If there is something on Calguns that I have not been able to find or a link..

freonr22
02-01-2010, 12:07 AM
is the rra have some special feature that you cant live without? I was just curious because there are literally like 20+ lowers that are oll

ke6guj
02-01-2010, 12:14 AM
I DIDN"T purchase it... the puke at the store would not DROS it after saying he would on the phone, plus some whining b.s. too about it being sat. there were THREE dudes that were employees having a circle jerk looking for a piviot man and they sent us to the only other counter and that was full of people. The seller had removed the stock when he brought as it had been sold separately. BUT he didnt take the upper off the lower.... SO, instant AW! with and RRA lower. would not do it adn the seller then said that he made a phone call and without even asking questions, looking at it, or asking one of those palstick black 8 balls that would tell your future from the 60's, said he could not sell it... Even though I watched other RRA lowers get sold all week long on the net including CG's.
I am buying a legal RRA lower that is exactly the same as what this other guy had that is illegal.... takes all kind... dude, you still aren't making sense. Was this a PPT that you were trying to have done at this dealer? That the seller brought in as a complete RRA rifle with just the shoulder stock removed. Why didn't you have the seller remove the upper before you went into the store to PPT DROS it. If that dealer is now unwilling to deal with you, then just go to another dealer that will do a PPT DROS on a RRA lower, and remove the upper before you go into the store (put the upper in your car so it doesn't even come up in the deal)

As mentioned before, you probably saw RRA lowers being sold all week long, not complete RRA rifles that may fall under an AW configuration listing.




What I would like if someone can tell me if something like it exists is a doc that explains all the differet builds, pros adn cons, etc. If there is something on Calguns that I have not been able to find or a link..http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=141885&highlight=rock

JeffM
02-01-2010, 12:29 AM
Decaf.

:rofl2:

beb1954
02-01-2010, 12:45 AM
dude, you still aren't making sense. Was this a PPT that you were trying to have done at this dealer? Not Clear??? yes, FTF PPT how much clearer?
That the seller brought in as a complete RRA rifle with just the shoulder stock removed.

Why didn't you have the seller remove the upper before you went into the store to PPT DROS it. I was already IN the store when Einstein got there.

If that dealer is now unwilling to deal with you, then just go to another dealer that will do a PPT DROS on a RRA lower, and remove the upper before you go into the store (put the upper in your car so it doesn't even come up in the deal) 1st, THAT dealer is over 2 hrs away again, (and if you read my other posts I would buy a swab [patch from that shuck and jive place) I DID say something about separating the upper from the lower and then getting it done.. Then he said that the RRA lowers were not legal any longer. His point was all of them, nothing about certain configurations! Seller called another place (Quantico in SD?) that is what he stated anyway but moved away to make the call so it could not be overheard....??? HHmmm..??? The told me that he would not sell me the lower and would not try another location!! As far as that place is concerned, I know that there are many members here from/in San Diego. I don't want to bash the place by name and step on anyone's toes, but the place is a joke. It is run by a bunch of 'Heeyy dude... let's party! types. No account, integrity thin, jerks (being nice). The store was hodge podge, unorganized and the shooting range was unspervised and out of control. (My opinion). Incidentially, i called there a couple of days before to ask about the lower and was told it was gtg. No Problem, just come in one hour from the door opening and before one hour before it closes. The bearded cue ball that ranted about the whole situation said I'm sorry about this and I;m sorry about that,... beign busy and not doing transfers on Sat. Busiest day and all... But those three pukes having the circle jerk didn't count I suppose. If they don't know how to do transfers, I guess it would not benefit the owner to make sure that they are versed in learning how to friggen do it either then huh.

Decaf Hell, I am pissed and have EVERY reason to be. I drove 2 hrs to have to get that chite run on me. All because of INEPTNESS

ke6guj
02-01-2010, 1:08 AM
how bout properly quoting your post. Hard to see what words in the post are yours, and which are mine and TRM's.


As we mentioned, every dealer has its own limits on close to the OLL line that they are willing to go. Since it was brought in as a complete rifle (less the missing buttstock), the dealer may legitimately believe you were trying to have him do an AW transfer. And once he makes that determination, you trying to separate the upper from the lower may not make him happy (think CADOJ sting). He may tell you to just leave, doesn't want to deal with the possibilities.

Now, regarding the seller. Are you now insinuating that he was hinky as well, not letting you hear the conversation with another gun show? That he didn't want to sell you the lower at another location for "some reason"? If so, then cut your loses and find a different rifle.

beb1954
02-01-2010, 1:22 AM
Re: the Calguns lower, I tried that too and was told after claiming "I'll take it" it was no longer available.

To the board, I posted a reply that was for a certain indivual that had sent me a message of sorts, and that was a reply to that person only...
If anyone (ke6guj) believed otherwise, they were incorrect.
At any rate, my anger over yesterday's events escalated more than I intended and needs to be put to bed so to speak... But it doesn't change the facts of what happened, people's actions and their lack of, maybe not so much integrity, but accountability for sure. I was not brought up that way.

So if an apology is what anyone wanted or needed there it is and it is sincere. If not, then whatever then too... Didn't attack anyone directly only their actions or inactions...and those people were from yesterdays activities. Not anyone here at all... EVeryone here, has always, for the most part, be helpful and gracious. I have even said in a few of my posts the regard I have for this site and them members. I wish I would have found it a long time before I did.
So again, my apologizes to the board and all inclusive. There was never anything directed towards the board or any member. I want to make certain that is clear.